Mass Alien immigration to the US

[Enigma]

By adding Clark into all this, we will unlikely see dissections (I can see mass protests just from the human side from around the world) or anything that will harm the aliens as a whole. I really doubt Clark will let that happen.

What I *do* see is mass quarantines around their ships and negotiations for them to either stay in parts of the U.S. that have a suitable climate for them or let them settle in other parts of the world that will accept them and in return we get access to their ships and whatever tech we can get.

Whether the aliens stay for good or until they are rescued, every government in the world will debate about whether or not the aliens get the same rights as humans do.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I judy imagined some of the Greys converting to Mormonism, can we think with you about Jesus

[Batman]

Depends on which iteration of Clark. Standard comics Clark? Yeah, probably not. That guy takes protecting his fellow man (regardless of what planet they're from) really seriously. But 'The Nail' Clark? DKR 'I follow orders' Clark? The first sat out a not inconsiderable number of wars and natural catastrophes, and the second actually tried (however reluctantly) to kill me.

[Darth Lucifer]

I judy imagined some of the Greys converting to Mormonism, can we think with you about Jesus

I wonder if they'll be eligible to receive the full Melchizedek Priesthood?

[Darth Lucifer]

... in return we get access to their ships and whatever tech we can get.

This brings up the question....are the ships even accessible at all? I know in District 9 and Alien Nation humans let themselves in.

The V aliens/Sirians would probably be reluctant to let anyone inside their vessel, they were so secretive about their true nature in the TV show and it would probably take a lot of strong-arming....then again, their ship is fucked as per the OP with no way to get home, so maybe they'll be more amicable to..."Visitors" (ugh)

[Ahriman238]

Depends on which iteration of Clark. Standard comics Clark? Yeah, probably not. That guy takes protecting his fellow man (regardless of what planet they're from) really seriously. But 'The Nail' Clark? DKR 'I follow orders' Clark? The first sat out a not inconsiderable number of wars and natural catastrophes, and the second actually tried (however reluctantly) to kill me.

How about Golden Age "socially-active Clark?" You know, the Superman who used to tear down slums with his bare hands to force Metropolis to rebuild them decently.

[Darth Lucifer]

Depends on which iteration of Clark. Standard comics Clark? Yeah, probably not. That guy takes protecting his fellow man (regardless of what planet they're from) really seriously. But 'The Nail' Clark? DKR 'I follow orders' Clark? The first sat out a not inconsiderable number of wars and natural catastrophes, and the second actually tried (however reluctantly) to kill me.

How about Golden Age "socially-active Clark?" You know, the Superman who used to tear down slums with his bare hands to force Metropolis to rebuild them decently.

Oh, the Prawns in Johannesburg would LOVE this guy. So would the denizens of "Slagtown." I'd be willing to bet he'd also dredge up all the Eenos (unclean caste of Tenctonese) out of the sewers they live in and demand they be treated as equals along with the rest of the Tenctonese.

[NoXion]

And if they don't? We just ate 3 million of their kind, for all they know they're just in time to be the second course.

What the fuck makes you think it's a good idea to actively piss off a civilisation capable of crossing interstellar distances? There's no way we can pretend that the kind of murderous rampage you're proposing was an accident or a misunderstanding.

Besides, even if there was no risk of their fellows coming back for revenge, genocide against an intelligent species is still a fucking vile thing to do. In case you haven't noticed, we're not living in the fucking jungle any more. We invented "morality" and "ethics". We may not always behave nobly, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Seriously, what the fuck?

[Enigma]

Depends on which iteration of Clark. Standard comics Clark? Yeah, probably not. That guy takes protecting his fellow man (regardless of what planet they're from) really seriously. But 'The Nail' Clark? DKR 'I follow orders' Clark? The first sat out a not inconsiderable number of wars and natural catastrophes, and the second actually tried (however reluctantly) to kill me.

"The Nail" Clark eventually acted because he could no longer stand by. Then again, why are we even considering Elseworlds? The Superman we know from the comics, T.V. and movies wouldn't put up with this crap and would protect the aliens from harm.

[Enigma]

And if they don't? We just ate 3 million of their kind, for all they know they're just in time to be the second course.

What the fuck makes you think it's a good idea to actively piss off a civilisation capable of crossing interstellar distances? There's no way we can pretend that the kind of murderous rampage you're proposing was an accident or a misunderstanding.

Besides, even if there was no risk of their fellows coming back for revenge, genocide against an intelligent species is still a fucking vile thing to do. In case you haven't noticed, we're not living in the fucking jungle any more. We invented "morality" and "ethics". We may not always behave nobly, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Seriously, what the fuck?

He's a trolling asshat. Throw him into a large group of Prawns with nothing but a stick of butter and a plastic knife and see how he'll fare.

No one will eat them since they are not actually prawns (I haven't seen the movie but I'm quite sure they're not space shrimp) and there'd be a world wide protest against such a practice.

[Batman]

Well for all we know they'll just go 'No biggy-they were there, they were alien, who cares if they were a sapient race with a culture on the same level as your own? They looked like food so you ate them. No big deal.'
Just don't whine when the aliens go 'well, you were there, you were alien, who cares if you were a sapient race with a culture on the same level as our own? You looked like food so we ate you.'

[Darth Lucifer]

...Throw him into a large group of Prawns with nothing but a stick of butter and a plastic knife and see how he'll fare.

I've got a better idea...lets expose him to the blue goop that started mutating Wikus. Gizmo will feel differently when he's the one being served up as a Prawn cocktail.

[NoXion]

He's a trolling asshat. Throw him into a large group of Prawns with nothing but a stick of butter and a plastic knife and see how he'll fare.

No one will eat them since they are not actually prawns (I haven't seen the movie but I'm quite sure they're not space shrimp) and there'd be a world wide protest against such a practice.

Considering that there's a certain type of person who in all seriousness (near enough that I can tell) thinks that oppression and mass murder are viable solutions for dealing with aliens (I recall a rather large thread concerning the Na'vi in Avatar along those lines), I think I can be forgiven for taking such opinions seriously.

Rather than engaging in idle revenge fantasies, I think it would be more interesting to talk about the provenance of such attitudes, where they are serious. What fragment of empathy is missing from such persons that they readily jump to the kind of bloodthirsty final solutions that would make Ghengis Khan sick to his stomach? OK, so they're aliens, but as the species we're talking about are the fictional creations of humans, a lot of fictional aliens (including the Prawns and the Na'vi) are going to be fairly human in their behaviour if not their appearance.

[Darth Lucifer]

Re: Greys....what kind of Telepathy are we talking about here? Simple communication? Reading minds? Exerting influence or control? Any large-scale display of this kind of power would attract both attention and ire.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Communication, surface reading, and image projection (ala they can fuck with what you are experiencing, throw your perception slightly off, sorta make themselves invisible (unless your directly looking at them, it's just ignored), but it takes concentration, protracted mind rape would require knowing the subject, and a lot of energy

[Simon_Jester]

However, Ghettofication and Segregation are going to happen. And the same arguements against the Jim Crow Laws arent going to work, what with these being legitimately different species and all. It might end within a century if these were The Lizards, due to them being basically just people and highly relatable, but most of these guys?

DH, I keep wondering: why do you Capitalize random words like "segregation?"

[Darth Lucifer]

@DH...LOL....the Visitors are the group LEAST likely to go along with "Ghettofication." If anything, of all the groups here, they arguably pose the biggest threat...don't forget that Visitor motherships carry a pretty sizable compliment of support and fighter craft and the Sirians are a warlike species whose goal is to conquer other worlds.

Also, you keep touting the Visitors as relatable, despite the fact that in the TV series they clearly despised humanity. They only tolerated humans because they were still in the process of deceiving humanity while rounding them up for food as well as the Earth's water. Hell, the only Visitors who were genuinely relatable were all fifth columnists, and their numbers were extremely few. There's a damned good chance that NONE of the crashed aliens are fifth column.

[gizmojumpjet]

And if they don't? We just ate 3 million of their kind, for all they know they're just in time to be the second course.

What the fuck makes you think it's a good idea to actively piss off a civilisation capable of crossing interstellar distances? There's no way we can pretend that the kind of murderous rampage you're proposing was an accident or a misunderstanding.

Besides, even if there was no risk of their fellows coming back for revenge, genocide against an intelligent species is still a fucking vile thing to do. In case you haven't noticed, we're not living in the fucking jungle any more. We invented "morality" and "ethics". We may not always behave nobly, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Seriously, what the fuck?

What makes you think rolling out the welcome mat for invasive species is a good idea? Take a moment to consider the kind of damage that terrestrial species, such as rabbits or cats, can do to ecosystems where they have no competition or no predators. I've never seen the TV series but the Alien Nation feature film explicitly points out the problems that humans are already running into with the newcomers. There's a scene where an interviewee says something along the lines of "How am I supposed to compete with someone who's stronger than me, who learns faster than me?" Alien invaders landing on earth in large numbers could actually be an existential threat to Mankind. I'm not sure there's anything moral or ethical about setting yourself up for extinction, but even if there were, I'd happily toss morality and ethics out the window if I thought it would ensure the survival of my species. Sorry if that twists your panties in a knot, I guess.

[Ahriman238]

Wait what? As far as I can tell, none of the species (except the Visitors) are predatory and none whatsoever reproduce more quickly than humans. Figuring what to do with them is a problem, but dropping another 11 million on the world is not going to turn it into a Malthusian nightmare of competition.

So calling the aliens (besides the Visitors, again) 'invasive species' is clearly inaccurate. Superior beings coming from space to take our jobs is somewhat fairer, but not all that probable. If you remember Alien Nation, even the film, do you remember the Newcomer who's easily smart enough to be a doctor but is in fact the police department's low-paid and much abused janitor? Finding decent jobs or something like equality for the aliens will be a job and a half in the face of people's tribal urge to stick together. Can you imagine a prawn cooking or serving your food? Would you be comfortable with a mind-reading manager?

[gizmojumpjet]

Wait what? As far as I can tell, none of the species (except the Visitors) are predatory and none whatsoever reproduce more quickly than humans. Figuring what to do with them is a problem, but dropping another 11 million on the world is not going to turn it into a Malthusian nightmare of competition.

Rabbits aren't predators and yet they have had serious ecological impact where they were introduced, notably in Australia. You don't have to reproduce more quickly than us to out-compete us. Humans reproduce pretty slowly and have difficult pregnancies and bear young that require years of care before they are productive and yet because we're so smart, we're the planet's apex predator. So what are the possible implications for humanity resulting from the introduction of millions of aliens who canonically learn faster than humans (Visitors) and are also physically superior (Visitors, Prawns)?

How can you know how quickly the Greys or the Prawns reproduce? For the purposes of this thread, there is not a specific iteration of Greys mentioned, and I don't recall district 9 giving any details about the Prawn's reproductive rates. For all we know, in the presence of Brain Bugs or whatever member of their society is supposed to help Prawns not be drooling retards, they could drop larvae 20 times a day.

So calling the aliens (besides the Visitors, again) 'invasive species' is clearly inaccurate. Superior beings coming from space to take our jobs is somewhat fairer, but not all that probable. If you remember Alien Nation, even the film, do you remember the Newcomer who's easily smart enough to be a doctor but is in fact the police department's low-paid and much abused janitor? Finding decent jobs or something like equality for the aliens will be a job and a half in the face of people's tribal urge to stick together. Can you imagine a prawn cooking or serving your food? Would you be comfortable with a mind-reading manager?

I don't think it's "clearly inaccurate" at all to call these aliens an invasive species. Do they have the potential to cause economic or ecological damage? Yes? Then they're a potentially invasive species. I don't remember the specific Newcomer you mention, and so I'll ask: Was he the much-abused janitor by choice, or was janitor a job the Visitor Job Board or whatever assigned to him? If it's the former, are you willing to count on all of the Visitors being so complacent, and staying that way? If it's the latter, how long do you think he's and others like him are going to stand for that before they start deciding to put their superior intellects and superior muscles to work changing things towards their favor?

The way you talk about finding jobs and equality for alien invaders makes me think you don't really understand the fact that the scenario described presents a serious threat to the ongoing existence of the human race. It seems that you think the big problem is figuring out how to integrate them into our society, like they just came from Guatemala or something. They're not illegal aliens. They are extraterrestrial aliens. I really can't help but think that finding them jobs and writing them into the bill of rights would be a matter of least concern in a situation such as this were it to actually come about. Shit might not go tits-up overnight, but what is the Earth, and what is life for mankind, going to look like 50 years, 100 years, and 1000 years after the Crashes?

[Batman]

Wait what? As far as I can tell, none of the species (except the Visitors) are predatory and none whatsoever reproduce more quickly than humans. Figuring what to do with them is a problem, but dropping another 11 million on the world is not going to turn it into a Malthusian nightmare of competition.

Rabbits aren't predators and yet they have had serious ecological impact where they were introduced, notably in Australia.

Which I bet had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they breed like, well, rabits, and were introduced pretty much uncontrolled. Guess what-different scenario. The aliens come conveniently prepackaged in crashed starships so yeah, we can pretty much dictate how and when they're released into the wild. Also, stupid animal vs human-level intelligent species. Slightly inaccurate comparison?

You don't have to reproduce more quickly than us to out-compete us. Humans reproduce pretty slowly and have difficult pregnancies and bear young that require years of care before they are productive and yet because we're so smart, we're the planet's apex predator. So what are the possible implications for humanity resulting from the introduction of millions of aliens who canonically learn faster than humans (Visitors) and are also physically superior (Visitors, Prawns)?

Companies are actually run by competent people for a change and the prawns need their own pro sports leagues?

How can you know how quickly the Greys or the Prawns reproduce? For the purposes of this thread, there is not a specific iteration of Greys mentioned, and I don't recall district 9 giving any details about the Prawn's reproductive rates. For all we know, in the presence of Brain Bugs or whatever member of their society is supposed to help Prawns not be drooling retards, they could drop larvae 20 times a day.

As evidenced by...absolutely nothing in the movie. In fact, I don't remember if there were any Prawn young born on Earth at all or if their kids came on the ship with the rest of the population.

So calling the aliens (besides the Visitors, again) 'invasive species' is clearly inaccurate. Superior beings coming from space to take our jobs is somewhat fairer, but not all that probable. If you remember Alien Nation, even the film, do you remember the Newcomer who's easily smart enough to be a doctor but is in fact the police department's low-paid and much abused janitor? Finding decent jobs or something like equality for the aliens will be a job and a half in the face of people's tribal urge to stick together. Can you imagine a prawn cooking or serving your food? Would you be comfortable with a mind-reading manager?

I don't think it's "clearly inaccurate" at all to call these aliens an invasive species. Do they have the potential to cause economic or ecological damage? Yes? Then they're a potentially invasive species. I don't remember the specific Newcomer you mention, and so I'll ask: Was he the much-abused janitor by choice, or was janitor a job the Visitor Job Board or whatever assigned to him? If it's the former, are you willing to count on all of the Visitors being so complacent, and staying that way? If it's the latter, how long do you think he's and others like him are going to stand for that before they start deciding to put their superior intellects and superior muscles to work changing things towards their favor?

Yeah, because their superior muscles are going to make the real difference in a country that not only has a population outnumbering them 20 to 1 but is lousy with people bearing firearms. 545 to one if we count world population. As for the superior intellect, since that apparently doesn't seem to work all that well for humans, who at least know how to work the system, err-no, not particularly worried.

The way you talk about finding jobs and equality for alien invaders makes me think you don't really understand the fact that the scenario described presents a serious threat to the ongoing existence of the human race.

That's probably because he knows it doesn't.

It seems that you think the big problem is figuring out how to integrate them into our society, like they just came from Guatemala or something. They're not illegal aliens. They are extraterrestrial aliens. I really can't help but think that finding them jobs and writing them into the bill of rights would be a matter of least concern in a situation such as this were it to actually come about.

We have to something with them, and trying to integrate them into society doesn't seem like such a bad idea. Especially as killing them off is unlikely to sit well with their species if they ever come looking for the crashed ships, what with them being capable of casual interstellar travel and so, you know, seriously able to ruin our day, so showing them we were nice to their people sounds like a pretty damned good idea.

Shit might not go tits-up overnight, but what is the Earth, and what is life for mankind, going to look like 50 years, 100 years, and 1000 years after the Crashes?

I'm really not all that worried about what will be 1000 years from now because I doubt even I will remain in print that long, but I'm sorry, you're essentially basing your predictions of doom for mankind on...rabbits. The Visitors are effectively just another set of immigrants except they look funny and probably won't go to the beach much during the holidays, the Prawns might remove themselves from the equation through sheer apathy, the only ones who are even potentially a problem are the Greys and the Visitors (well, and Clark , who depending on iteration is both in a position and highly likely to be inclined to take exception to the way we treat the aliens in special and our general handling of this planet in general).

[Darth Lucifer]

....millions of aliens who canonically learn faster than humans (Visitors)

Just a nitpick...When did we ever see this? Elizabeth the half-human/half-Sirian Star Child was not your normal Visitor. No other visitor juveniles were ever shown in V, V:TFB or V:TS (I haven't seen nu-V, so I can't speak for the reimagined "V's")

Tenctonese, OTOH, were said to be "20%" smarter than humans, but in the series Emily and Buck Francisco attended school with their equivalent peers. And not all tenctonese used their superior intellect; the movie and series are rife with examples of Tenctonese who perform activites which don't require much brain work at all.

I don't remember the specific Newcomer you mention,

Albert Einstein, the Police precinct janitor. He was also George and Susan's Binnaum.

and so I'll ask: Was he the much-abused janitor by choice, or was janitor a job the [Tenctonese] Job Board or whatever assigned to him? If it's the former, are you willing to count on all of the [Tenctonese] being so complacent, and staying that way? If it's the latter, how long do you think he's and others like him are going to stand for that before they start deciding to put their superior intellects and superior muscles to work changing things towards their favor?

IIRC, Albert was given that line of work, but I'll have to watch the Pilot Episode again.

This doesn't necessarily mean that the Tenctonese will flood the workforce...in the show, there were many Tenctonese ex-slaves doing all manner of unskilled jobs; one of the episodes ("Gimme, Gimme") also featured a Tenctonese sweatshop...because some of the freed slaves still had their slave mentality even after years of freedom. Also, the Alien Nation TV movies are several years apart (by the time of The Udara Legacy, teenager Buck was an adult and little Emily was in High School) and there were still many Tenctonese spread over all sorts of jobs, skilled and unskilled. Meanwhile Albert Einstein and his girlfriend May, the snack cart girl at the precinct, were still doing their same jobs as always.

Another thing to consider...the Tenctonese are a caste driven society, and even though they were no longer slaves, they still had a hierarchy. The lowest caste, Eenos, were so reviled by the rest of their species that they couldn't even get jobs and were forced to live underground in the sewers. Others were priests and secluded themselves. Still others like the Kleezantsun and their sympathizers were also not able to fit in with the rest of their race, thus limiting their prospects.

edit: just as a side, note, I'm surprised at how much Alien Nation is on YouTube.

[Darth Lucifer]

Communication, surface reading, and image projection (ala they can fuck with what you are experiencing, throw your perception slightly off, sorta make themselves invisible (unless your directly looking at them, it's just ignored), but it takes concentration, protracted mind rape would require knowing the subject, and a lot of energy

I see all sorts of Military applications here. Of course from the get-go, I would think the Greys would use their power to make everyone else think they are benign. I wouldn't want to be a pawn of some primitive alien's military.

I wonder...would the Greys, by their reputation and such from the paranormal community, be one of the greatest targets of hostility? I can see the planet abuzz with much conspiracy theory chatter on these guys. Armored underwear could arise from it all.

However, the Stargate fans would love them to death. Hell, it might work to their advantage to make humanity think they ARE the Asgard.

[Dominarch's Hope]

I have never implied the Visitors were relatable. Just that the Prawnbros were. And they are. And theyre cooler.


Besides, I thought this was a teleportation deal, if they come with all their weapons, it ends up being a fight anyways and then its about whether or not they can win.

Prawnbros and Greys are cool, screw the other guys. And maybe kill all of the Visitors.


The Lizards I was referring to are Turtledoves, btw.

[Dominarch's Hope]

The Lizards I was referring to were Turtledoves, btw.


Oh and District 9 does show the kids and such. Its been several years since the crash and thats before the little prawn kid was born. Not to mention at the end of the movie, it basically says that the Prawn population has increased.



And remember those egg sacks and shit that was being flamethrowered? Prawn babies.