Doctor Who...... What the bloody hell?

[LadyTevar]

Now that the show's aired, we see what was meant. Hurt was playing the incarnation that lived through the Time War, who did all the things Eccleston's Doctor was angsting about. However, as Smith makes clear, he did not do those things "In the Name of The Doctor", implying that this incarnation either changed his name or did so many things that Smith considers him 'no true Doctor'.

Which might explain why Doctor means Great Warrior on some planets, yes?

[Captain Seafort]

Which might explain why Doctor means Great Warrior on some planets, yes?

The observed incarnations have done quite enough by themselves to earn that title.

[Stark]

I think it's a pretty obvious retcon bone-throw. Better hope there's no a) return to constant whining or b) return to scenery chewing evil warmonger being evil and trying to karate the party.

[The Guid]

In what way is it a retcon? I don't get why people aren't getting this whole concept? At what point did Ecclestone's Doctor ever pop along and say "Oh hi, I'm the Doctor, and these are all of the faces I have had, and I have only regenerated a total of eight times, just so we're clear. Run for your life."

[Stark]

You'd have been much better to argue that time wars are about retcons than deny that Eccelston was the ninth Doctor (or ignore their fatuous 'not a real Doctor so doesn't count lol' business). It's not like the Time War isn't an excuse for the writers of the day to make up whatever retarded shit they want, after all.

[The Guid]

But what, specifically, in Universe does this compromise?

[Stark]

It's ok dude. Matt Smith still the eleventh Doctor because of hilarious brand-based hoop-jumping.

Eccleston's troll continues to be the best ever.

[Parallax]

Come to think of, recently we've had various times when the faces of the Doctor have been shown in sequence (people chasing Prisoner Zero comes to mind as just one, as well as Mr Clever's presence in the Doctor's head).
None of these featured The NotDoctor.

So yeah, this is a bit of a retcon and would have been much smoother if they just had given McGann a call.

[Stark]

Dude it only exists because they don't want to have to rebrand all the merch.

But it could have worked if they'd planned for it instead of just fucking up again; there's a Doctor who got voted off the identity big brother style after literally years of angst and owning of mistakes by the Doctor. At that was double the whining power now, and the drama is weakened by it being the BAD MAN. If Hurt plays it straight the story itself might work, but if he's Timothy Dalton 2.0 it will just be yet more childish cheap moralizing.

[The Guid]

Hmmmm... I think it is possible to think around these:

- The Atraxi were in fact only looking at their records, it is not inconcievable that they hadn't heard of the NotDoctor because they didn't have records of what he did.
- If we're inside the Doctor's head, and we're looking at a sequence of how he sees himself, why are we surprised the NotDoctor is not in it?

Now, am I claiming that this has been planned "all along"? No, of course not. But as with all of Dr. Who you can either poke holes to your heart's content or quite easily smooth over the bumps. I mean, I could moan that we never see Lethbridge Steward protect the Doctor from Torchwood when he turns up unannounced after being stranded after the War Games, but I don't.

[Stark]

It's ok, I know DW is all about ignoring stupid shit. That doesn't make the shit less stupid.

And hey maybe it'll actually be good for a change? Who knows.

[The Romulan Republic]

Come to think of, recently we've had various times when the faces of the Doctor have been shown in sequence (people chasing Prisoner Zero comes to mind as just one, as well as Mr Clever's presence in the Doctor's head).
None of these featured The NotDoctor.

So yeah, this is a bit of a retcon and would have been much smoother if they just had given McGann a call.

I would love it if McGann came back, but here's a possible explanation:

If whatever his name is existed during the Time War, its possible his existence got removed with the Daleks and Gallifrey.

[AndroAsc]

There's something missing in this talk, so if the current 11th doctor is indeed his 12th regeneration, does it mean that current doctor is the last, i.e. NO MORE regenerations???

[The Romulan Republic]

I think one more.

However, it is possible to surpass that limit. In other words, the Doctor can live as long as the BBC wants him to live.

[Stark]

They just added in a whole new Doctor into the past because of an industrial dispute, and you're seriously asking if the regenerations will stop because of some dialog limit?

IT'S POSSIBLE HIS EXISTENCE WAS REMOVED.

[Scrib]

Yeah, I find the idea that the Doctor is going to be stuck with 12 regenerations and the writers aren't going to do anything about it odd. If you believe that you probably believed that he was going to die at the Lake Silencio or his real name was going to be revealed at Trenzalore.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think they should have revealed his name. But they continued the status quo.

There's too little change in Doctor Who. These days every companion is a human. Most companions are young women. About half the episodes take place at least partly in England. It is ironic and sad that in a show that can feature almost any character, location, or genre, the writers often avoid change. They have the entire history of the universe to write about, and they waste it.

[Scrib]

On the young women who the Doctor is always amazed by and who always end up saving his ass because they have magical qualities (read:act of plot)...yeah, ugh. This recent one with Clara just gets to me for some reason, maybe I'm just tired. But this isn't ever going to change now I reckon. A pretty man and a pretty (but also strong!) woman, doesn't that sound like the thinking of a TV exec to you?

As for the Doctor's name, I kinda agree with them, there's no way that it's not gonna be silly.

[Stark]

Probably should have thought of that BEFORE they made such a big deal about it I guess.

[Scrib]

Of course they did. They probably just thought that they could get away with it because of the mystery. No doubt they assumed that most fans knew there was no chance in hell of it happening.

I mean, it's kinda like the threats to heroes in ninety percent of all media. The writers know that we know Kiefer Sutherland or whoever is not gonna die yet they (rightly) think that the tension they can create and the wait to see how he escapes will hook people.

[The Romulan Republic]

On the young women who the Doctor is always amazed by and who always end up saving his ass because they have magical qualities (read:act of plot)...yeah, ugh. This recent one with Clara just gets to me for some reason, maybe I'm just tired. But this isn't ever going to change now I reckon. A pretty man and a pretty (but also strong!) woman, doesn't that sound like the thinking of a TV exec to you?

As for the Doctor's name, I kinda agree with them, there's no way that it's not gonna be silly.

There should be a warning about spoilers for this thread.

I don't mind Spoiler

Clara saving the Doctor. But I'm not sure I like that she was influencing the Doctor since before he left Gallifrey.

That's giving her more importance than I think she should have.

If anyone's been influencing the Doctor for that long its the TARDIS.

Edit: added spoiler label.

[Parallax]

I don't think of it so much as Clara influencing the Doctor so much as her being present cancelled out the Great Intelligence's meddling. Otherwise, the Doctor would remember Clara pointing out which TARDIS to take as a quick example.

Or timey wimey wibbly wobbly.

[Scrib]

Makes no sense? She cancelled out the GI's meddling by doing her own meddling (which,let me reiterate is highly improbable), that was explicitly shown. They're not opposite poles, they don't just cancel out. Her meddling is still around.

The Doctor doesn't remember her because fiat.Well,maybe he does now but you get the point.

[Havok]

Why would he remember Clara from 1000 years ago telling him to take a different TARDIS until he realized it was Clara? She would have just been some helpful Time Lord chick until that moment.

Also just because Clara intervenes each time doesn't mean that she meets the Doctor each time, y'know, how they clearly show. She only has contact with him when he steals the TARDIS and in the instances that we already saw with 11.

And in theory, the GI and Clara do cancel each other out because their meddling happens in each instance all at once. How she knows what to do is because she filtered through the Doc's timeline to get there. It's ingrained in each one of her incarnations.

She basically Quantum Leaped the Doctor's life.

[Stark]

Hav you are a monster.