It might be better just to make an all-in-one 'rifts' calc thread, because the stuff is kind of a hodgepodge to me. I always have this mix of admiration for their dedication to internal consistency and worldbuilding as well as being frustrated by their obsessive attention to detail, because it leads to all sorts of good and bad stuff.Ahriman238 wrote:Thanks, Connor. I suppose for now blasting basketball-sized holes in things will do, at least for the energy weapons.
Like the aformentioned 'recoil' thing. Mutants in Orbit says this about zero gee warfare:
Mutants in orbit page 87 wrote:Weapons made for use on space stations come in several varieties, but almost all have two important features. First, they have no recoil. In zero gravity, firing a conventional pistol would send the shooter spinning backwards at about seven feet (2m) per second until he slammed into something or a towline, umbilical cord, jet pack, or companion stopped him. Violently swinging a heavy club will send the attacker swinging in the opposite direction and/or spinning in circles (that's why smart people learn zero gravity combat). So most weapons are either very light, recoilless, or shoot light/energy, as in the case of lasers. Of course, conventional, recoil weapons work perfectly on space stations with artificial gravity.
Secondly, the damage a weapon does to people should, ideally, not damage the hull of the ship or station. Breaching the hull or a contained environment is a very fast way of ending a combat in a draw; everybody dies in an explosive decompression. As a result, weapons have been developed ot hurt people, but not equipment or inorganic structures.
Now the good thing is, they're paying attnetion to the idea of zero gee and the risks it entails (if you're detail oriented, at least) but that obsession with numbers (always give both metric and imperial) always leaves things open for derision or confusion. I'm lazy so I'll just quote Atomic Rockets here
I don't know if that accounts for momentum or not, but IIRC as a rule propellant basically doubles the recoil imparted at most (at least in the nubmers I've ever run or seen it doesn't add much more than that, even for tank guns)If you wanted to use your handgun for propulsion, Trip the Space Parasite calculates that a .45 automatic will give 0.12 m/s of deltaV to a 50 kg person.
Basically even a fairly light, 100 pound person (a pipsqueak compared to my own massive 6'3, 300 lb frame) would still be only propelled back by about 12 cm/s (about 5 inches) per second, contrasting with the 7 ft/sec they imply (about 15-20x more powerful.) and someone bigger would mean en ven greater disparity (again myself) EVen a ludicrously powerful revolver like the S&W Model 500 would only give something under 40 kg*m/s recoil (assuming you could control it, which for the 50 kg person about .8 m/s velocity. Better, but still not quite close to that dreaded 2 m/s (nevermind the spin, which for the sake of my calcs I ignore.)
To put this another way, your 50 kg person to achieve 2 m/s recoil would have to be subjected to a recoil somewhere in the vicinity of 100 kg*m/s worth of recoil, which is something akin to an assault rifle/machine gun on full auto. This means you could argue things one of two ways: RIFTS pistols (even on SDC) are ludicrously powerful (although this can still present recoil problems), or they goofed on the math.
That said, recoil could be a useful way of actually calcing the guns, especially as certain things like the Glitter Boy's boom gun are recoil-heavy and many of the stats can be derived (useful baseline for establishing railgun performance.) How this translates into MDC is, however, still a bit murky like for energy weapons (And correlating between the two, I expect, will be even crazier.)
The hull puncturing one may or may not be good depending on your view. Given the narrow disparity between sidearms and capital ship weapons (compared to other universes like Star Wars, Trek, or 40K) this may not be as 'wrong' as it may seem, but again I suspect there's potential for numbers fuckup.
There was also your 'crate of frag grenades' analogy - technically MDC is meant to be equated as 'blow apart human torso, obliterate small animal, tear apart deer in two' - unless you take the vaporize shit literally (which you may or may not, that always provokes a new argument) we're talking roughly frag grenade level damage (or less, in the case of small bunnies, unless we go with literal vape, in which case it probalby is more than a frag grenade.) This bears out with that Narui K-HEX stuff (MDC damage from a grenade-yield) roughly. This may mean contact detonation or burying it inside the target (like a bolter) but again by the MCD logic any antipersonnel grenade should have the potential of harming MDC anything, unless there were more factors involved (which seems to be the case.)
The best 'definition' as of yet for MDC is that its basically synonymous with 'overkill', but interpreting how that overkill works is not neccesarily strictly defined. It can mean not just kililng but blowing the target apart, or overpenetrating the hell out of the target and everythign behind it, and/or with tremendous potential for collateral damage. And it could even be a combination of those and other factors, but it also apparently can include things like 'you lose a limb cuz its severed/blasted off or charred to a crisp', which is not nearly so devastating.
I know I still had a few other tidbits squirreled away when I looked this stuff with the assistance of gigabytelord, but I cant remember where (it had stuff about Coalition technology in general, esp their laser rifles.)
But anyhow, I'd say make a separate thread at least to start discussing it and maybe encouraging other people to offer their input/analysis into how the weaponry works. I'm sure I've not even scratched the surface of 'quantifiable' stuff (I remember there was one story/fluff blurb that was quantifiable but I can't find that either, and it was in the 'blow apart torso/put huge hole in it' vein.) but the more stuff you can collect the more information you'll have for figuring out how it all works.