Movie Avengers againsts a Kaiju Attack

[Napoleon the Clown]

With the hammer on the foot thing, wouldn't a Kaiju just lift his foot and let the hammer tear a small chunk out of it? They don't seem to worry overly much about pain. I suppose it all depends on leverage and the ability to move yourself though the hammer.

That's assuming it can lift its foot with sufficient force. If they can shrug off getting smacked in the face with a damn nuke then it's questionable if it can pull hard enough to rend its own flesh.

[Simon_Jester]

What about just sliding their foot sideways, or pulling it backwards?

[Borgholio]

As I understand it, you can't move it at all because the hammer pins you there with enough force to keep you from moving, but not enough to crush you to death.

[Replicant]

As I understand it, you can't move it at all because the hammer pins you there with enough force to keep you from moving, but not enough to crush you to death.

Will the hammer lower itself to stay on your chest? If it does not then someone would merely have to dig under you so that you have room to get out from under the hammer. IF it does lower to stay on your chest then putting the hammer on anyone for more than a couple minutes would slowly suffocate them as the hammer lowered every time you exhaled and your chest dropped a little.

Of course this is all Marvel extrapolation. The actual hammer of Thor could only be moved by him because only he was strong enough to lift and move it. In at least one legend Thor himself was somehow pinned by the hammer and no one could move then hammer until Thor's own son came and listed it.

[Replicant]

On the topic of Man of Steel, how would Big Blue fare against a Kaiju? He is going to be physically stronger and more resilient than any of the Avengers, but we do know that he's not invincible. Strong enough foes can (and have) literally beaten him to death.

While extremely distasteful I would expect that the Man of Steel would eventually win when he decided he could only stop the monster by killing it and then commenced to play magic bullet and fly straight through the best super fast, possibly by first entering its mouth.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

As I understand it, you can't move it at all because the hammer pins you there with enough force to keep you from moving, but not enough to crush you to death.

I don't think Mjolnir is in any way animate. It's enchanted to be impossible to lift unless you are worthy, and Thor in his own movie couldn't lift it while he was exiled to Earth for being a meathead (he tried). We don't have proof that it can move on its own; logically, Thor would be using it as a homing missile if it could, but we never see him whispering a badguy's name to send Mjolnir around a corner or some such. He can recall it, but that's probably all that's covered by Mjolnir's enchantments.

Also, remember that Thor only used this trick on someone who was as much a god as he was. It would probably crush a mortal's ribcage in no time. I like to think it's been magicked to alter its weight according to the physical strength of whatever tries to lift it; this explains why it's too heavy for the Hulk, but doesn't simply sink through the concrete it's resting on. Yes, I understand that this essentially means it gains mass from nowhere, but hey, magic.

[Ted C]

As I understand it, you can't move it at all because the hammer pins you there with enough force to keep you from moving, but not enough to crush you to death.

I don't think Mjolnir is in any way animate. We don't have proof that it can move on its own; logically, Thor would be using it as a homing missile if it could, but we never see him whispering a badguy's name to send Mjolnir around a corner or some such.

In both Thor and The Avengers, Thor does use the hammer as a "homing missile" of sorts. He is able to throw it and have it hit multiple targets that are not all in a straight line. It seems to be more like a TOW missile than a seeker, though; the weapon responds to Thor's thoughts and moves according to his will, such as when he summoned it to the helicarrier's hangar from wherever he had left it. If he drops it due to being hit or something (as in his fight with Iron Man), it doesn't return to his hand until he calls it.

It also seems to be able to respond to certain stimuli or conditions on its own, such as spontaneously returning to Thor when he proved himself worthy.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

In both Thor and The Avengers, Thor does use the hammer as a "homing missile" of sorts. He is able to throw it and have it hit multiple targets that are not all in a straight line.

Perhaps. I can't remember. I'd guess he did it against the frost giants in his movie, when did he do that in the Avengers?

It seems to be more like a TOW missile than a seeker, though; the weapon responds to Thor's thoughts and moves according to his will, such as when he summoned it to the helicarrier's hangar from wherever he had left it. If he drops it due to being hit or something (as in his fight with Iron Man), it doesn't return to his hand until he calls it.

I already said he can recall it. That, by itself, doesn't mean that the hammer itself 'responds' in any way beyond simple telekinesis.

It also seems to be able to respond to certain stimuli or conditions on its own, such as spontaneously returning to Thor when he proved himself worthy.

Yes. I'll concede that Mjolnir is not completely inanimate. I was disputing Borgholio's idea that Mjolnir will actively press on and pin someone down if Thor just plops it on top of you. I just don't have reason to think that Mjolnir's abilities extend to that.

[Jub]

It also seems to be able to respond to certain stimuli or conditions on its own, such as spontaneously returning to Thor when he proved himself worthy.

Yes. I'll concede that Mjolnir is not completely inanimate. I was disputing Borgholio's idea that Mjolnir will actively press on and pin someone down if Thor just plops it on top of you. I just don't have reason to think that Mjolnir's abilities extend to that.

Then it would have no choice but to crush somebody, their chest would be unable to lift it (rise) and then when it falls, unless the hammer floats, it would fall with the chest and stay in the new position. This would repeat until the subject couldn't breath well enough to survive. Mjolnir would need to be pretty smart to keep that from happening.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Then it would have no choice but to crush somebody, their chest would be unable to lift it (rise) and then when it falls, unless the hammer floats, it would fall with the chest and stay in the new position. This would repeat until the subject couldn't breath well enough to survive. Mjolnir would need to be pretty smart to keep that from happening.

Dear fucking god. Hey, Mr. Irrelevant, take a look at this:

Also, remember that Thor only used this trick on someone who was as much a god as he was. It would probably crush a mortal's ribcage in no time.

[Jub]

So then why do you dispute that Mjolnir can pin people down? Unless we take a very odd view on the hammer it will stay as it is and if Thor wanted to use this to pin something, say a giant monster, he would press into it a bit before setting the hammer. That way the only hope of moving is if your foot can pull out horizontally and accept any damage that comes as part of doing so. Other ways of getting out would either cause damage or simply fail; moving down should drop the hammer with your foot as you can't lift it, but the hammer isn't specifically immobile; trying to pull up so the hammer passes through you would take a load of effort and leverage; moving side to side will tear the flesh that is pressed into by the hammer; and trying to lift the hammer only works if you have godlike strength or can rise in strength quickly enough that the hammer can't compensate, example the Hulk getting mad while trying to lift it.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Borgholio said that Mjolnir is smart enough to pin you down without crushing you to death. I said we (I, at least) have no reason to think that Mjolnir is that smart, and gave a few reasons on why I think so.

[Jub]

Ah, my bad. That's what I get for skimming.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Okay, it's not like I'll condemn you or anything.

[biostem]

IIRC, Striker Eureka was able to kill a Kaiju with 6 chest missiles from lose range. Gipsy Danger's sword was able to easily cut one, and Hannibal Chau was able to stab a knife into a baby Kaiju... so they aren't impenetrable.

Stark's best bet may be to use those anti-tank darts he used in the 1st movie.

Thor could either try a lightning strike or a strong uppercut to the chin.

As others have mentioned - if some pilots w/ flare guns could hit a Kaiju in the eye and annoy it, then Hawkeye should be able to hit it there with an explosive arrow or something. Might not kill it, but should do some damage.

I wouldn't underestimate the Hulk... he may not be as big as a Kaiju, but he could either leap onto one and attack its head, or if it tried to pick him up and bite him, he could damage it's head that way.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Hulk depends entirely on how much they involve the rage/strength thing. I seem to recall that for The Incredible Hulk they didn't implement that on the grounds that it reduces drama. Dunno if they decided to keep that concept in Avengers. If they decided to bring back the anger thing then he'd theoretically be able to bitchslap a kaiju, after getting mad enough. It's just a matter of how long it takes to get that pissed off.


Other Thor option: Casually toss Mjolnir into a kaiju's mouth. No pulling out from under something that's inside you. Hell, it's entirely possible Mjolnir's properties would allow him to lobotomize a kaiju repeatedly. It seems to dislike stopping for anything but Thor's hand.

[Borgholio]

Borgholio said that Mjolnir is smart enough to pin you down without crushing you to death. I said we (I, at least) have no reason to think that Mjolnir is that smart, and gave a few reasons on why I think so.

There was a good deal of discussion on the sentience of Mjolnir in this thread:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... &start=100

It's been awhile since I read that thread, but I believe the general consensus was that there WAS at least some sort of limited AI in the hammer, due to the various properties it exhibited. If it wasn't flexible in it's interpretation of "being unable to be moved", then all sorts of nasty shit would happen.

[NecronLord]

For those wanting actual evidence regarding Thor vs Frost Giant Monster:



Though I wonder if that ability to demolish large chunks of the landscape could be useful on the Kaiju. Dig a deep enough pit around them and they cease to be a problem, perhaps? I don't recall them being very good at climbing.

[Borgholio]

One of them could fly...

[Jub]

Only one though, and can it take off without room to really spread its wings? The rest likely couldn't climb anything not designed for them. Their weight seems like it would tear chunks from stone, and especially dirt and soil.

[Block]

Only one though, and can it take off without room to really spread its wings? The rest likely couldn't climb anything not designed for them. Their weight seems like it would tear chunks from stone, and especially dirt and soil.

With that much strength couldn't they just dig to create a ramp out?

[Borgholio]

They were able to smash through a reinforced wall 40m thick....I would think they can dig out.

[Jub]

I can dig through dirt, put me in a big enough pit with steep enough sides and I will more likely be buried before I ever get close to coming out. The same goes for a Kaiju if the pit is large/deep enough with loose sides.

[Borgholio]

Now we're talking a very specific type of hole in the ground. Can Mjolnir create a sheer, steep pit in the ground? Or would it create more of an impact crater?

[Jub]

Looking at the clip posted the sides seem to have fallen away into chasms, so it can make that kind of pit under some circumstances. It might possibly be able to do so upon command. If it's just an impact crater, then almost anything could just walk out assuming it survived.