The Daughters of Kali

[cadbrowser]

If that is problematic, another option comes to mind. The Daughters first send a probe out of the portal, it checks the local area for hostiles, then heads back in to tell them that it's all clear. If the probe doesn't come back, or comes back with evidence of hostiles, they decide to use a different portal.

If the Daughters (or anyone for that matter) sent a probe first, every time they needed to make a jump, for whatever reason, wouldn't they have to wait 12.5 (1 day to calculate patterns to NoVerseTM, half a day for another calculation to Universe, then 11 day "rest" period) days before the probe could jump back to their location to inform them? And, if I'm reading it right; just for 1 lightyear?

Can the computer calculating the host of infinate variables (reflecting infinate variables that are being reflected back as infinite variables upon those original infinate variables being reflected...ad nauseam - all without worrying about the uncertainty principle no less!) that is contained in a passenger ship be the same size as one that is in a probe (Hint: think about the computer on Star Trek for comparison)?

Unless it is a "magical" black box item similar to the navigation unit in Wing Commander (film) that can be moved from ship to ship and thus would fit inside a probe.

There's infinite patterns to represent everything, that is, there's infinite different patterns to represent an electron, infinite different to represent a photon, and so on. These patterns also contain information about gravity, and everything else.

So, exactly what the heck is the Leapfrog computer calculating? I know it is the patterns, but what is significant about the patterns that it needs to figure out? A point of origin for each reflected atom or particle? But even still...calculating infinities upon infinities - is that even possible like...at all?

[bilateralrope]

If that is problematic, another option comes to mind. The Daughters first send a probe out of the portal, it checks the local area for hostiles, then heads back in to tell them that it's all clear. If the probe doesn't come back, or comes back with evidence of hostiles, they decide to use a different portal.

If the Daughters (or anyone for that matter) sent a probe first, every time they needed to make a jump, for whatever reason, wouldn't they have to wait 12.5 (1 day to calculate patterns to NoVerseTM, half a day for another calculation to Universe, then 11 day "rest" period) days before the probe could jump back to their location to inform them? And, if I'm reading it right; just for 1 lightyear?

The calculations and long wait time are for the FTL that everybody uses. Not for the portals that only the Daughters have access to.

[cadbrowser]

Oh shit...after rereading that I see where I messed up. UGH. Sorry about that. Ok nevermind on that question.

[Korto]

Unless it is a "magical" black box item similar to the navigation unit in Wing Commander (film) that can be moved from ship to ship and thus would fit inside a probe.

There's infinite patterns to represent everything, that is, there's infinite different patterns to represent an electron, infinite different to represent a photon, and so on. These patterns also contain information about gravity, and everything else.

So, exactly what the heck is the Leapfrog computer calculating? I know it is the patterns, but what is significant about the patterns that it needs to figure out? A point of origin for each reflected atom or particle? But even still...calculating infinities upon infinities - is that even possible like...at all?

[sotto voice]It is a fucking magic black box.[/sotto]
SPThere are a few major technologies in the universe that are not properly understood by the people building and using them. Amongst them is the al Kembri field (my variant of a force field), the Leapfrog computer (for Jump drive), and the Momentum drive (for interplanetary movement). These technologies all depend upon Specularum physics, so it's fair to say the problem is no-one actually understands Specularum physics. They use it, but they don't understand it, possibly in the same way a medieval blacksmith uses tempering and alloys, without understanding chemical structures. Trial and error.
SPSome speculate that it'll never be understood, that like trying to teach a chimpanzee Maxwell's Equations, it's just more than our brains are built to handle. Others call that defeatist.
SPThe Tai!Qu have had the most success, but they're more intuitive and given to leaps of genius than Man. Unfortunately they're also, by human eyes, pathologically secretive about breakthroughs and prefer to take them to the grave. Fortunately, they're less reticent about trading technology they've stolen off other clans.

SPThe Leapfrog computer was invented, probably stolen or taken in war, and reverse engineered thousands of years ago. While it's known how to build them, it's not understood how they work. There are theories, but those theories have a nasty habit of crumbling under the harsh light of experiment.

SPThe person explaining this technology is a ship captain by the name of Karl Tjapukai. He's intelligent, well informed, but would be the first to admit he may not be quite right; this is how he understands it.

SPImagine that everything is just a huge matrix of numbers. That's all reality is, just this matrix. The Leapfrog computer scans the space in and immediately surrounding the ship, giving itself a sample (although some feel it just scans itself). Now, what it finds is caused by (is a reflection of) what's around it, therefore it's possible to derive what's around it from what it finds, and what's around that, and what's around that, and so on. Let's say it finds:
1 4 8 3 7 2 6
if that's the case, then that means this, each line calculated from the last.
1...4...8...3...7...2...6
..5...3...2...1...9...8
....8...5...3...1...8
......4...8...4...9
And so on. It's calculates this out at the rate of one light year a day. How, we don't know. Presumably it uses short cuts of some kind. Now, each set of numbers* (or "pattern") represents a "thing", like a quark, a photon, a graviton. Each set is also unique in the universe (although some feel that there may be a set size which is too small to be unique). Patterns are of varying sizes, and overlap, so one "number" may be a constituent of many "patterns".
SPOh, you'll also notice the number of derived elements reduces at each line. It's not known if the Leapfrog has a problem with this, or how it gets around it.
SPNow, it has the ability, somehow, to impose the calculated pattern of elsewhere onto the ship (along with whatever changes need to be made to allow for the existence of the ship, I guess), but it can't do this while within the matrix. That's where Twistspace comes into it. Whatever Twistspace is, it's not part of the matrix.
SPAnyway, you jump out, the Leapfrog computer does its thing, and you jump back; the universe then figures out where to put you by your pattern, and that's all there is to it!

SPSo I hope that helps. The leapfrog calculates the elements that make up the patterns.

SP* The way it's used here, a "set" or "pattern" is not a line. It could be a 3 x 3 box, 6 x 7, a triangle with base 5 wide, and so on. The patterns are dependant on the elements, but the elements are not dependant on the patterns.

SPAs the underlying elements are in constant flux, any scan is immediately outdated. The closer you are to a large concentration of energy (including matter), ie a solar system, the faster and more radical the change. Too far away from a concentration, though, and the pattern differences are so subtle that the Leapfrog sometimes loses accuracy in location. For instance, someone trying to jump 100 au out from Earth (because the patterns shift so slowly it's possible to make a much longer jump) may instead find they've appeared halfway to Alpha Centauri; or, less likely but still possible, halfway to Andromeda. This is theoretical, as no-one's ever known to have done that. At least, no-one anyone's ever seen again.
SPThe recommended safe jump is 6 LY, jumping to a distance out that has an eight-day window (as a jump there would take 6 1/2 days from scan time). For our solar system, this is about 50 au.
SPIt is possible to make in-system jumps (the short window being countered by the short calculation time, at least until about 30 au), but as the wait period still applies, and Momentum drive has a maximum speed of around 0.1 c, then it's not worth it.

[krakonfour]

Interesting FTL system, certainly is unique.
But one question: What is stopping the spaceships from mounting TWO hyperdrives, with the second one activating the moment they finish the first jump. It'll double their speed for the same cooldown time.

[Korto]

SPSince I'm ill-disposed to allow such an end-run around the limitation, I would probably say that if such was attempted (and it probably has been), it didn't help. Not that the second drive failed to operate, but that it failed to bypass the waiting period. Therefore, it seems to be more than the Leapfrog that needs the rest, perhaps something affects the whole ship.
SPThat does then open up interesting questions about what would happen if you transferred some cargo from a ship which has just jumped to another ship? Would the cargo cause a failed jump, despite the ship being fresh? I'm currently inclined to say No, leading to a speculation that there's some critical mass (or critical proportion) of the ship that had to be involved in the previous jump to cause the increased chance of failure.

SPI can only imagine how gun-shy experimenters are. The only form of failure ever experienced (with maybe the tiniest number of exceptions) is the sort that's filled in on the incident report as "Ship and crew were never seen again".
SPBefore you ask, automated vessels invariably fail (in the "Ship was never seen again" way). An explanation I'm playing around with for this is that the jump screws with electronics, generally in small but chaotic ways, which has to be rectified before jumping back. In which case, that half a day in Twist-space, and some time after jumping back, is spent rectifying. Possibly it corrupts computer systems, (except the leapfrog), and everything has to be rebooted and reinstalled. Possibly the Leapfrog doesn't have any special immunity, it's just luck, and that explains some of the "Ship and crew were never seen again"s.
SPPerhaps it's something metaphysical, like Schrodinger's cat which needed to be observed to see if it was dead or alive. Perhaps in Twist-space the ship needs someone there to observe it existing, or it doesn't. And perhaps I shouldn't try to think after midnight.

[cadbrowser]

-SNIP Pattern Explaination - So I hope that helps.

Meh. Somewhat. I get what you are trying to do and I will echo other comments in that this FTL concept is indeed unique. Not to be an ass, but I'm just not convinced that I like it.

You have this black box named Leapfrog (love the name!) that calculates patterns according to Specularum Physics (would be nice if you could define this term for me) to transport a spaceship to Twistspace (cool name here too!) then, while in this apparent "universe void", it calculates the pattern to insert you in another part of the universe based on the required distance you need to go in three dimensional space.

Wait wait wait...but then here you say this:

Now, it has the ability, somehow, to impose the calculated pattern of elsewhere onto the ship (along with whatever changes need to be made to allow for the existence of the ship, I guess), but it can't do this while within the matrix. That's where Twistspace comes into it. Whatever Twistspace is, it's not part of the matrix.
SPAnyway, you jump out, the Leapfrog computer does its thing, and you jump back; the universe then figures out where to put you by your pattern, and that's all there is to it!

I'm confused now. Leapfrog cannot do any calculations while you are in the matrix? So how do you get into Twistspace again? I thought it was by Leapfrog calculating what your pattern is. But it seems that there should be a different mechanism.

Let me look at it this way and you tell me if I have it right.

Step One: The captain orders Helm to lay in a course from a space doc around Mars to Alpha Centauri A (at appx 4.37 lightyears from Sol).

Step Two: Helm punches in the requested coordinates and then Leapfrog kicks in.

Step Three: Leapfrog calculates the ships pattern based on the matrix reflections bla bla bla, which I assume in a 3D sphere to a point out the required distance to the requested destination. This takes around 5 days -ish.

Step Four: Somehow the ship is sent to Twistspace.

Step Five: Leapfrog then makes more calculations.

Step Six: Somehow you pop back into the universe, your pattern has somehow changed (mechanism not defined) towhere the universe itself places you somewhat in the correct spot.

Forgive me, but this sounds like a really shitty transporter system to me.

This black box, by what you are saying, would require connections to the ship's deep space scanners, correct?

They use it, but they don't understand it, possibly in the same way a medieval blacksmith uses tempering and alloys, without understanding chemical structures. Trial and error.

I am not quite sure that analogy runs parallel with what you are trying to convince me of. I think a more appropriate analogy would be to take a complete nuclear power plant back in time to 2560 BCE and give it to the Egyptians to have them reverse engineer it. No blueprints, no books on atomic theory, and nobody to guide them.

---

Setting aside the incompletness of this FTL drive, I would like to make some suggestions towhere it can be grounded a little more without relying on so much "fru fru juju" and saying things like "The UNIVERSE knows where to put you.

That is, if you will allow this. If not, it is your baby and I understand. But I do have some ideas towhere it could remain captivating and seemingly unknowing while still making a bit more sense.

Up to you.

[Korto]

I get what you are trying to do and I will echo other comments in that this FTL concept is indeed unique. Not to be an ass, but I'm just not convinced that I like it.

SPThat's fine. It's not like there's a law or anything

SPJumping in and out of Twistspace is a separate thing, and does not depend upon any scanning or calculations. It's just an action. It occurs to me now it could be used as an escape, by twisting out, waiting a couple of days, and twisting back, which (should) put you in the exact same point, since no pattern change was imposed (and presumably you did it in a safe location).

SPCalculations can be, and usually are, carried out in the real universe. It's then imposing the necessary changes to the ship's Speculum patterns that these calculations indicate are required that needs to be done in Twistspace.

SPWhat the desired calculation is, is the underlying values that would create the correct patterns that would be the ship at the desired location. The difference distance makes is that these values can only be calculated by starting at where the ship is and then calculating out, so the further away the destination is, the longer it takes to get there in what is believed to be an iterative process.

SPAs said, while in Twistspace the Leapfrog alters these underlying values, thereby changing the patterns that are the ship at the place it was in, to the patterns that would be the ship if it was at the desired location.

SPIf this new location would be one that has a higher energy (kE, GPE, etc), energy is drained from the ship's coils to pay for it. If it's lower energy, energy flows into the coils. Being unable to supply, or unable to accept, this energy, is bad. Although not necessarily fatal. It may be if you don't have enough energy, part of your coils are converted into energy (matter to energy conversion); if you have too much energy, your coils overload, overheat, lose their superconductivity, vapourise and explode. Which would be bad. I'm actually going to have to make a solid decision on this, as it's something that would be known from unfortunate experience.

SPThe Leapfrog has its own internal sensors. It does, however, use the ship's forcefields ("alKembri field") during the alteration process, and possibly while Jumping (that just occurred to me. Seems like a good idea, but)

SP"Speculum" is latin for "mirror", and refers to the description of it as being that it's like existence is reflections of reflections, where everything exists only as a reflection of what's around it. It's also better than the name I had originally. Frankly, names can be a bugger sometimes.

SPIt's not a great interstellar transport mechanism, but it's the only one they know. At least it's possibly safer than 40K's Warp (there's damned with faint praise).

That is, if you will allow this. If not, it is your baby and I understand. But I do have some ideas to where it could remain captivating and seemingly unknowing while still making a bit more sense.

SPI'm happy with the overall concept of the system. However, I've put the stuff up here not in search of empty praise, but thoughtful input, so yours is certainly welcome, and I've made alterations before based on what people have said (and other times, of course, I haven't).

[cadbrowser]

Calculations can be, and usually are, carried out in the real universe. It's then imposing the necessary changes to the ship's Speculum patterns that these calculations indicate are required that needs to be done in Twistspace.

I get this. The question is how? What mechanism makes the calculations since you've already said the Leapfrog cannot work unless it is in Twistspace...unless I misunderstood something.

Something else you mentioned that I wanted to touch on and forgot to do earlier:

As the underlying elements are in constant flux, any scan is immediately outdated.

This statement contradicts the ability for the calculations to be made and "stored" through a 1 day/lightyear process before "slipping" into Twistspace. Then you have another timelag while in Twistspace for the Leapfrog to impose the changes required for the jump. It just doesn't make sense for this statement to be accurate AND for your "magic black box" to work.

The Leapfrog has its own internal sensors. It does, however, use the ship's forcefields ("alKembri field") during the alteration process, and possibly while Jumping (that just occurred to me. Seems like a good idea, but)

The utiliazation by the Leapfrog of the forcefield by "changing" the reflections in order to "trick" the universe that it "belongs" somewhere else is nice. This makes sense. And that can be done while in Twistspace. Yes, this is good.

However, as mentioned before you still need a exlpanatory mechanism for getting into and out of Twistspace...for the story, yes? Even if your theorist (Karl Tjapukai) is "wrong", I think it would beef up the validity of this FTL travel idea for your story.

I'm happy with the overall concept of the system. However, I've put the stuff up here not in search of empty praise, but thoughtful input, so yours is certainly welcome, and I've made alterations before based on what people have said (and other times, of course, I haven't).

You'd be foolhearty to expect any empty praise here...lol

I think making changes to suggestions that help improve the overall concepts or story are a great asset for a writer. I too have made a lot of changes based on feedback from others. So, your attitude is a good one to have, IMHO.

[Korto]

Something else you mentioned that I wanted to touch on and forgot to do earlier:

As the underlying elements are in constant flux, any scan is immediately outdated.

This statement contradicts the ability for the calculations to be made and "stored" through a 1 day/lightyear process before "slipping" into Twistspace. Then you have another timelag while in Twistspace for the Leapfrog to impose the changes required for the jump. It just doesn't make sense for this statement to be accurate AND for your "magic black box" to work.

SP I remember thinking just after I wrote that, that I really hadn't expressed myself well. It would have been nice if my next thought was "And here's a way to express it better", but obviously it wasn't.
OK, while it's true that the whole matrix thingy (I don't like calling it the "matrix", because of the movie, but when you think of the movie, the bloody similarity holds) is in a constant state of change, and so any snap shot is outdated the next second, there is a certain amount of change that causes no significant inaccuracy, maybe you'll be out by a light hour, but still basically where you wanted to be. The calculations may be off, but not off enough to cause an incident. For instance, if jumping 50 au out, you have 8 days before it's deemed statistically unsafe.
SPThis, of course, doesn't rule out outlier events. It also means you can do somewhat longer jumps, and get away with it most of the time. If the safe period is 8 days, then 10 days will probably be fine. Probably. However, the probability of failure is parabolic, not linear.
SPIf you were to try to Jump right into Earth orbit, the safe time is probably measured in seconds. I haven't really considered it deeply, as it's supposed to be impossible.

However, as mentioned before you still need a exlpanatory mechanism for getting into and out of Twistspace...for the story, yes? Even if your theorist (Karl Tjapukai) is "wrong", I think it would beef up the validity of this FTL travel idea for your story.

SPYeah, I do. It's something I haven't thought about, because in "game mechanics" terms, it's simple. You're here, then you're there. It does, however, need some fluff. I know it's supposed to wring you out in some way, earning it the name "Twistspace". I'll have to put some thought to it.

I'm happy with the overall concept of the system. However, I've put the stuff up here not in search of empty praise, but thoughtful input, so yours is certainly welcome, and I've made alterations before based on what people have said (and other times, of course, I haven't).

You'd be foolhearty to expect any empty praise here...lol

SPYou'd be surprised with some people. "The Orange Star". A race someone else came up with of aliens that flew, were super-fast, and bullet-proof, and he really didn't understand why people thought he was a wanker. To be fair, it's understandable that someone wants to be praised for what they think is a really great idea. I can also understand when they get upset when someone criticises their baby, but grow up or try a different site.

Coming soon to a thread near you (not this one)! My attempt to make boarding actions a sensible thing to do in the middle of a space ship battle!! Can it be done !?!? The world watches breathless !!!! With yet more exclamation marks !!!!!!!!

[cadbrowser]

OK, while it's true that the whole matrix thingy (I don't like calling it the "matrix", because of the movie, but when you think of the movie, the bloody similarity holds) is in a constant state of change, and so any snap shot is outdated the next second, there is a certain amount of change that causes no significant inaccuracy, maybe you'll be out by a light hour, but still basically where you wanted to be. The calculations may be off, but not off enough to cause an incident. For instance, if jumping 50 au out, you have 8 days before it's deemed statistically unsafe.

Perhaps a nice thesaurus is in order to aid in you finding another name for matrix? I understand your dilemma here, and I sympathise. I can't tell you how many times I've laborously searched for alternate words or even attemted to make my own to avoid copycating another tv show or movie.

For example, in my RPG 'verse I have cyborgs as a "race". However, I really didn't want to use Cyborg, Borg, Bionic, etc etc. It took me a good 6 mos or so before I found the right word I wanted to use. At first I was using Bion...but it just didn't fit. The word I decided to use was Augment...and I love it.

It also took me a while to come up with a word for another "race" that I recently added. They are altered humans (similar to Jane from the Johnny Mnemonic movie) in that they are given increased speed, reflexes, strength, intelligence, or etc via non-mechanical biological manipulation. I use the word Tweak for these people.

With regards to your explaination regarding the constant flux and how that translates to "slightly inaccurate jumps", I like it. That makes sense. A light hour could be a significant plot twister in certain circumstances.

Something just came to me. What happens when two ships inadvertantly require to jump to the same location? Or perhaps, they want to meet in secret (for whatever reason) and end up comming out of Twistspace in the same location (or dangerously close). You could almost do a "The Fly" scenario with a WHOLE fucking ship and it's crew!

I know it's supposed to wring you out in some way, earning it the name "Twistspace". I'll have to put some thought to it.

I love the name, and the implication that it is named for its potential physiological effect. So, I'm exceedingly excited to hear what you come up with on this.

You'd be surprised with some people.

Wow, no kidding huh? The Orange Star...I'd be interrested in finding the topic on that and reading it. It has been my experience that those, who constantly seek praise for their ideas and get upset when they are criticised, are those ones who were raised always praised and they require that constant coddling to validate their existance. Honestly, it makes me want to throw up and go slap their parents.

[Korto]

With regards to your explaination regarding the constant flux and how that translates to "slightly inaccurate jumps", I like it. That makes sense. A light hour could be a significant plot twister in certain circumstances.

SPAnd you've just got to love 1.07925285 × 10^9 kilometres off target, 4 times the orbital diametre of Earth, being called "slightly inaccurate"

Something just came to me. What happens when two ships inadvertantly require to jump to the same location? Or perhaps, they want to meet in secret (for whatever reason) and end up comming out of Twistspace in the same location (or dangerously close). You could almost do a "The Fly" scenario with a WHOLE fucking ship and it's crew!

SPAn "incident" may occur. I would rule as the author that as ships have very little mass (compared to, say, planets), you would have to be quite improbably close for anything bad to happen, but it's easily conceivable. The first ship would alter the pattern values in that area (just by arriving). This may just push the second ship further off-course than usual, but if something really bad was to happen, the most likely would be that the second ship fails to arrive at all, as another place in the universe becomes a better match. "The Fly" has never been known to happen, but I can't rule it out.
SPTwo ships meeting may plan their Jump points and meeting point in advance, making sure they're safely separate, to try and avoid that happening. This does nothing to help all the other ships jumping about.

[Korto]

SPHere you go, Cadbrowser.

SP"So, you want to know more about Jumping and Twistspace? You know you don’t get a refund if you back out now."
SP....
SP....
SP"OK, well, a jump is more a pinch. The al Kembri field seals the ship off from the Pattern, pinches it off from the universe, cutting it loose into Twistspace. Don’t ask me how it does it, but I reckon it’s similar to how the field is used to create the momentum drive. Anyway, once the ship’s cut off, then the Leapfrog’s able to adjust it, and everything in it. That includes you. When that’s done, when it’s changed all the pattern, we unseal the field, the ship jumps back, and we’re in a new spot. That’s all there is to it, technically.
SPBut you’re asking what it feels like.
SPWrong. It feels wrong. You prone to throwing up? We’ve got anti-nausea drugs on the ship, but some like to chew ginger. Anyway, imagine your skin and bones, your whole body, has become rubbery and flexible, and someone’s grabbing you, twisting and bending you, back and forth, back and forth. It doesn’t hurt, but it doesn’t stop. Everything around you’s twisting and bending too, fading in and out; it’s best to close your eyes when it fades out. You don’t see anything, that’s kinda’ the problem.
SPYou’ll get used to it."

[cadbrowser]

SPHere you go, Cadbrowser.

SP"So, you want to know more about Jumping and Twistspace? You know you don’t get a refund if you back out now."
SP....
SP....
SP"OK, well, a jump is more a pinch. The al Kembri field seals the ship off from the Pattern, pinches it off from the universe, cutting it loose into Twistspace. Don’t ask me how it does it, but I reckon it’s similar to how the field is used to create the momentum drive. Anyway, once the ship’s cut off, then the Leapfrog’s able to adjust it, and everything in it. That includes you. When that’s done, when it’s changed all the pattern, we unseal the field, the ship jumps back, and we’re in a new spot. That’s all there is to it, technically.
SPBut you’re asking what it feels like.
SPWrong. It feels wrong. You prone to throwing up? We’ve got anti-nausea drugs on the ship, but some like to chew ginger. Anyway, imagine your skin and bones, your whole body, has become rubbery and flexible, and someone’s grabbing you, twisting and bending you, back and forth, back and forth. It doesn’t hurt, but it doesn’t stop. Everything around you’s twisting and bending too, fading in and out; it’s best to close your eyes when it fades out. You don’t see anything, that’s kinda’ the problem.
SPYou’ll get used to it."

Ok, so (let me make sure I get this straight) the al Kembrie field, which is your variation of a space ship's forcefield is activated anytime it needs to protect itself, use the mometum drive for interplanetary distances, and to enter Twistspace.

Are there different properties of the al Kembrie field (like the power setting, crystal/medium, frequency setting) that activates these different uses? I question this because it would seem without some variation or limiting device that anytime you wanted to do any one of those 3 things that your crew would experience the effects of Twistspace without actually being in it.

Also, does the al Kembrie field actually aid in creating the momentum drive, or is it merely activated as a defensive measure while in transit to another plant/moom/spacestation? Personally, I think it would be good to differentiate these processes; but, again it is up to you. Just throwing some questions out there to hopefully spark some more ideas.

I also think that if you don't differentiate it then if it is used in an "in game" rule or setting that it could get a bit confusing for the players.

"The Fly" has never been known to happen, but I can't rule it out.

This would make an excellent "one off" adventure or story. Two ships dissapear for "x" number of years, only to have a totally unidentifyed ship mysteriously "pop" up somewhere, in a different time perhaps even, and a crew stumbles upon it. Maybe two small cargo ships that had a minimum crew (3 to 5 members each) rendevouzing to exchange cargo and they end up entering coordinates that are too close and they end up being merged into one...crew members included. Each crew member has a compliment of themselves (example = both captains were in the captain's chair) and suffer from dual personality disorder. That would be a great challenge to write several characters that way...

[Korto]

Ok, so (let me make sure I get this straight) the al Kembrie field, which is your variation of a space ship's forcefield is activated anytime it needs to protect itself, use the mometum drive for interplanetary distances, and to enter Twistspace.

Are there different properties of the al Kembrie field (like the power setting, crystal/medium, frequency setting) that activates these different uses? I question this because it would seem without some variation or limiting device that anytime you wanted to do any one of those 3 things that your crew would experience the effects of Twistspace without actually being in it.

Also, does the al Kembrie field actually aid in creating the momentum drive, or is it merely activated as a defensive measure while in transit to another plant/moom/spacestation? Personally, I think it would be good to differentiate these processes; but, again it is up to you. Just throwing some questions out there to hopefully spark some more ideas.

I also think that if you don't differentiate it then if it is used in an "in game" rule or setting that it could get a bit confusing for the players.

SPThe symptoms of Twistspace only occur when the ship has been completely isolated from the rest of the universe. As long as there's any contact at all, there are no symptoms. In fact, the remarkable thing about the Momentum drive is how you feel nothing, despite possibly accelerating from 0 to 0.1 c in seconds.

SPThe protective device known as the al Kembri field is named after Sayyd al Kembri, commonly credited amongst humans with discovering it, even though it's in the better texts that he actually traded it off the Kerridan, who traded it centuries earlier off the Tai!Qu, but we can't let the facts get in the way, can we?
SPHow it works is it effectively converts free* energy (above a certain relative speed) to heat, which it disperses over a wider area. How wide depends upon its "tuning". The more highly tuned it is, the further it disperses the heat BUT the higher relative speed a projectile must be travelling to be affected at all (beams don't have this worry. They're stopped). There's trade-offs involved. It's then the role of the physical armour to deal with the heat, and stop whatever's remaining of the projectile.
SPThis information is not really relevant, but gives you some background. There'll be more about it on the boarding thread I'll start quite soon.

SPIt's also possible, using the al Kembri field, to fiddle with the Pattern in other ways. This involves extra equipment built on to the emitters, and while the protective field effect can be active while either the Momentum drive or Jump field is active, it doesn't have to be (but only a lunatic wouldn't have his forcefield up when travelling at 0.1 c). Momentum drive and Twistspace field are, however, mutually exclusive, as one depends on a limited connection with reality, the other requires an utter separation.
SPThe Momentum drive, as well, will be further discussed in the Boarding thread.

SP*Free Energy - Kinetic, electromagnetic, etc. It does NOT absorb potential energy, eg gravitation or chemical.

[cadbrowser]

The al Kembri field seals the ship off from the Pattern, pinches it off from the universe, cutting it loose into Twistspace.

The symptoms of Twistspace only occur when the ship has been completely isolated from the rest of the universe.

That is what I just pointed out to you. I asked you to resove this contradiction and you went on a different tangent explaining how the al Kembri field works. This is not my question.

In order for your crew to NOT feel the effects of Twistspace then your first sentence above NEEDS to be modified. Because that first quote tells everyone that as soon as the al Kembri field is activated it pinches the ship off from the universe into Twistspace.

That is why I asked if there was a manifold, crystal, frequency or SOMETHING that controlls HOW complete this field is. You still have not answered this. Otherwise, once it is turned on you are in Twistspace!

(but only a lunatic wouldn't have his forcefield up when travelling at 0.1 c)

How can you claim that when this has already been claimed: "but I reckon it’s similar to how the field is used to create the momentum drive"

If the forcefield is used to create the momentum drive then why wouldn't they have it up when traveling? Makes no sense.

[Korto]

SPOK, I'll put it another way. Simpler this time, and less tangential (although, if you were ever in my D&D game, you'd know we eat, drink, breathe and piss tangential).

SPField generators can generate 3 different aspects of the emanation known as the al Kembri field. One, the most common, is a protective field, and is what is commonly meant when people talk about an al Kembri field. The second is the field required for the Momentum drive. The third is the field required for entering Twistspace.
SPThe Twistspace field is totally impermeable, cutting off all connection with the universe. It is this total cutting of connection that causes the Twistspace symptoms. The other two modes are not impermeable, and therefore do not have these symptoms. At all.

SPA field generator has equipment common for all three modes (eg, the emitter), but also equipment specific to the needs of each individual aspect. Obviously, if certain aspects are not required, the equipment for that wont be built on. For instance, personal protective fields only come with protective field hardware, and cannot generate a Momentum or Twistspace field*. The controls for the generator would be put in the obvious spot, such as the bridge.

SP*That's not to say it's possible to put a Momentum or Twistspace field on such a small field, anyway. Off the top of my head, it's not, because I don't think I like the implications.

How can you claim that when this has already been claimed: "but I reckon it’s similar to how the field is used to create the momentum drive"
If the forcefield is used to create the momentum drive then why wouldn't they have it up when traveling? Makes no sense.

SPI'm not taking the blame for this one. That's your fault. If you weren't prodding and forcing me to work out unexamined areas more thoroughly, then details wouldn't be getting streamlined, filled out, or in some cases, changed.

[cadbrowser]

Field generators can generate 3 different aspects of the emanation known as the al Kembri field.

Finallyl! Thank you.

I'm not taking the blame for this one. That's your fault.

Yes, I full take the blame. You're welcome by the way.

I've got to say, I'm liking this more and more. Just a few more fluffy tweaks and I think you'll have something exciting, original, and fun.

[bilateralrope]

SPThe Twistspace field is totally impermeable, cutting off all connection with the universe. It is this total cutting of connection that causes the Twistspace symptoms.

Would it be possible for a ship to hide in Twistspace for a duration then pop back out right where it was ?

Would anyone observing the ship be able to tell the difference ?

[Korto]

Would it be possible for a ship to hide in Twistspace for a duration then pop back out right where it was ?

Would anyone observing the ship be able to tell the difference ?

SPI thought of this, but no. The problem is, the removal of the ship from the universe changes the Pattern. As the ship isn't a massive object, as stellar masses go, the significant change is only localised, but in that local area, it is significant and will prevent the ship returning to that point.
SPThere would be a good chance of returning somewhere "nearby" (maybe within a few au), otherwise, grab a dartboard with a map of the universe on it, grab a dart, and shut your eyes.
SPOh, that assumes you return quickly. The longer you leave it, the more natural Pattern change occurs.

SPIt is possible to scan, and then Jump out and do your calculations in Twistspace for somewhere a safe enough distance away. People don't because of the symptoms, but it is possible. It's unknown whether there's problems doing so, but a couple have done it successfully. To repeat an old theme, if anyone tried it and was unsuccessful, no-one's heard from them.
SPFinally, it would be theoretically possible to Jump out, and then while in Twistspace scan the Pattern of the ship, and use that for the calculations. While the pattern is flapping around loose or whatever it's doing. Most captains don't even consider that a plan. No-one's heard from anyone who's tried it.

[cadbrowser]

Finally, it would be theoretically possible to Jump out, and then while in Twistspace scan the Pattern of the ship, and use that for the calculations.

Wouldn't that be nigh impossible since there are no reflections in Twistspace? Or am I assuming something wrong here?

---

After reviewing everything we have discussed, I wanted to verify one more thing if you don't mind. What mechanism is responsible for taking a snapshot (i.e. scanning the pattern) of the ship prior to enabling the al Kembrie field and jumping into Twistspace? I don't think this piece of the puzzle has been identified. If it has, I apologize; but I'm not finding it.

---

Anyway, once the ship’s cut off, then the Leapfrog’s able to adjust it, and everything in it. That includes you. When that’s done, when it’s changed all the pattern, we unseal the field, the ship jumps back, and we’re in a new spot.

Based on the idea of Specularum Physics (which I'm still wrapping my head around in terms of classical, relativistic, and quantum mechanics), would the Leapfrog have to calculate/change the patterns inside the ship, including people? If you consider relativistic reflections each unit inside the ship has not changed position (or reflection) relative to the ship itself, right? Because, really...it seems to me...that the calculations are done to take quantum probability measurements while utilizing the reflective physics aspect to "cheat" the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Well, I guess with a 1 day per light-year calculation prior to jumping into Twistspace, followed by a day or two inside Twistspace, it would be hard for anyone to stand perfectly still and not move around. Plus, you have electrons moving around in the ship's circuitry as well as photons from the ship's lighting, etc.

Then again, if you don't have to calculate the internal reflections of the ship and only need to consider the ship itself jumping in and out of twistspace (being that it is impermeable and all) relative to its original reflective position, wouldn't that be better?

My other thought regarding this would that the crew would have to imput the desired coordinates, "initiate the snapshot phase", have 30-60 seconds to climb into a suspended animation chamber, then the ship's computer does the rest. You could still have the same effects messing with the crew...maybe part of the process for climbing into the animation chamber is the requirement to have the barf tube in place. Once they are "woken" they still feel the twisty-ness or whatever.

---

As a side note...
What is really neat about this idea is that it is beginning to sound a lot more like quantum tunneling with a combination of "virtual" particles. If you think about it, to an outside observer crossing from Twistspace back into normal space would look like they just popped in from nowhere; vice versa, would look like they dissapeared. Only now you have identified a "medium" for where the ship goes to cross that barrier. Kind of like the Quantum foam I've read about.

---

Crazy thought occured to me that might make a cool adventure path...
What would happen if a whole planet (colonial moon?) was wrapped in this al Kembrie field initially used for some sort of planetary defense system. A mad scientist/rogue agent/"other antagonist type" decides they want to modify the field generator so that they can move it to another location.
Malvolent Antagonist - Maybe they want to do it to take over that world.
Benign Antagonist - Just wants to see if it can be done.
Benevolent Antagonist - Save a world from destructive supernova, attack, etc.
Or perhaps there is a legend of this happening and it is up to the adventurers to investigate the rumors to see if there is any truth or merit to the outlandish claims.

Anyway, food for thought.

[Korto]

Finally, it would be theoretically possible to Jump out, and then while in Twistspace scan the Pattern of the ship, and use that for the calculations.

Wouldn't that be nigh impossible since there are no reflections in Twistspace? Or am I assuming something wrong here?

SPAs the ship, and everything is it, exists as an expression of the Pattern, there is still a fragment of Pattern to scan. There are queries raised. Since it's been severed from the greater pattern, is it frozen, like some believe (except for the changes expressed as people moving, electrons flowing, etc)? Or is it still changing? If so, faster or slower? Some feel that without the rest of the universe pushing it, the rate of change will be very slow. Others feel that as the entire universe for it is now just the ship, it is extremely dense relatively (no empty light years anymore), and the rate will unbelievably high; perhaps unscannable.

What mechanism is responsible for taking a snapshot (i.e. scanning the pattern) of the ship prior to enabling the al Kembrie field and jumping into Twistspace?

SPThe Leapfrog does that. The Leapfrog Scans, Calculates, and then Imposes. It's not known for certain whether it scans the outside of the ship, the ship, or even just itself. Any would be theoretically valid, but it would seem the bigger an area scanned, the better. It stores the results of the scan internally and so far no-one, attempting to extract this data, has been able to decode or decompress or interpret it yet (for other purposes).

---

Based on the idea of Specularum Physics (which I'm still wrapping my head around in terms of classical, relativistic, and quantum mechanics), would the Leapfrog have to calculate/change the patterns inside the ship, including people? If you consider relativistic reflections each unit inside the ship has not changed position (or reflection) relative to the ship itself, right? Because, really...it seems to me...that the calculations are done to take quantum probability measurements while utilizing the reflective physics aspect to "cheat" the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Well, I guess with a 1 day per light-year calculation prior to jumping into Twistspace, followed by a day or two inside Twistspace, it would be hard for anyone to stand perfectly still and not move around. Plus, you have electrons moving around in the ship's circuitry as well as photons from the ship's lighting, etc.

Then again, if you don't have to calculate the internal reflections of the ship and only need to consider the ship itself jumping in and out of twistspace (being that it is impermeable and all) relative to its original reflective position, wouldn't that be better?

SPThis may be an area where no-one's really sure how the Leapfrog does it. It may in fact be that as long as the major (ship location) change is made, the little details just take care of themselves. Or perhaps it somehow keeps tabs on everything and is continuously adjusting and rectifying.
SPAs for the Uncertainty principle, that could be part of the essential inaccuracy of the transport mechanism. Or at least that sounds like a good excuse.

My other thought regarding this would that the crew would have to imput the desired coordinates, "initiate the snapshot phase", have 30-60 seconds to climb into a suspended animation chamber, then the ship's computer does the rest. You could still have the same effects messing with the crew...maybe part of the process for climbing into the animation chamber is the requirement to have the barf tube in place. Once they are "woken" they still feel the twisty-ness or whatever.

SPHaven't really considered them having suspended animation technology, although they do have a good ability to safely induce medical comas. There's even a gadget sold for sick bays, put it on a person, give it a couple of parameters (species, gender, mass estimate) and it will inject the necessary drugs to induce coma, monitor vitals, adjust dosage as needed, and inject the antidote either at the press of a button, or automatically if it detects a serious problem.

Crazy thought occured to me that might make a cool adventure path...
What would happen if a whole planet (colonial moon?) was wrapped in this al Kembrie field initially used for some sort of planetary defense system. A mad scientist/rogue agent/"other antagonist type" decides they want to modify the field generator so that they can move it to another location.
Malvolent Antagonist - Maybe they want to do it to take over that world.
Benign Antagonist - Just wants to see if it can be done.
Benevolent Antagonist - Save a world from destructive supernova, attack, etc.
Or perhaps there is a legend of this happening and it is up to the adventurers to investigate the rumors to see if there is any truth or merit to the outlandish claims.

Anyway, food for thought.

SPFuck, you know, that's not as crazy as it sounds. The funny thing is, the minimum number of shield generators needed is the same, no matter how big the field is, because the greater the surface area of the entire field, the deeper the field and the greater the radius out each generator projects. It's when radii overlap that the field merges into one. So no more generators are required to do an entire world. Although they'll probably need to be bigger, with greater power requirements.
SPThe problem would be it stops incoming radiation. Including sunlight. Could be reasonable, and even been done, for some kind of asteroid, though.

SPI thought of this, but no. The problem is, the removal of the ship from the universe changes the Pattern. As the ship isn't a massive object, as stellar masses go, the significant change is only localised, but in that local area, it is significant and will prevent the ship returning to that point.
SPThere would be a good chance of returning somewhere "nearby" (maybe within a few au), otherwise, grab a dartboard with a map of the universe on it, grab a dart, and shut your eyes.
SPOh, that assumes you return quickly. The longer you leave it, the more natural Pattern change occurs.

SPI'm going to back-track a little on this. While you wont reappear in the exact same spot for the reasons stated, I over-exaggerated the scatter and risk. This jump could well be safer than a standard jump, as it should be so much quicker.
SPThat assumes you've already had your 11 days rest. Which you'll have to have again when you pop back.

[Korto]

Wouldn't that be nigh impossible since there are no reflections in Twistspace? Or am I assuming something wrong here?

Just dawned on me what you could have meant. That without the rest of the universe there, the ship's pattern is no longer reflecting it, making it impossible to deduce the universe from the scan.
This is a very good thought, and is is probably the consensus view. (It's also probably correct.) Any countering opinions rely on the pure speculation that the pattern is somehow "frozen" in twistspace, a speculation with no evidence.

[cadbrowser]

The Leapfrog does that.

Ok, just making sure. Earlier in a post you said the Leapfrog cannot work unless it is IN twistspace. It seems you've modified this?

This may be an area where no-one's really sure how the Leapfrog does it. It may in fact be that as long as the major (ship location) change is made, the little details just take care of themselves. Or perhaps it somehow keeps tabs on everything and is continuously adjusting and rectifying.
SPAs for the Uncertainty principle, that could be part of the essential inaccuracy of the transport mechanism. Or at least that sounds like a good excuse.

And really that idea was me moreso expounding on the concept as it may relate to real world physics and not necesarrily for your story perse. In keeping with that though, maybe the Leapfrog is a quantum probability calculator of sorts. It would mediate the complexities of scanning for patterns knowing that they change pretty much constantly.

Haven't really considered them having suspended animation technology, although they do have a good ability to safely induce medical comas. There's even a gadget sold for sick bays, put it on a person, give it a couple of parameters (species, gender, mass estimate) and it will inject the necessary drugs to induce coma, monitor vitals, adjust dosage as needed, and inject the antidote either at the press of a button, or automatically if it detects a serious problem.

Feel free to utilize this if you want. Personally, I think it would fill in some gaps so that you don't have to explain what the crew does for those "days" of the Leapfrog making calculations and etc.
Spoiler

One crewmember's "sleep chamber" malfunctions and he is woken early. Leapfrog, in kind, responds with ever larger ratios in it's probility matrix thereby sending the crew WAY off course. Maybe they run into another *NEW* alien life form? Because the Leapfrog had too much to calculate it didn't record the correct information and the crew has to find out where they actually are. Because, according to the Leapfrog, they are where they are supposed to be...ish.

Fuck, you know, that's not as crazy as it sounds. -SNIP- Although they'll probably need to be bigger, with greater power requirements. The problem would be it stops incoming radiation. Including sunlight. Could be reasonable, and even been done, for some kind of asteroid, though.

Thanks...
That's what I was thinking too as far as power requirements on VLO (Very Large Object) type coverage.
I see what you are saying with regards to stopping incoming sunlight and radiation. I wonder, depending on the plot specific to the idea, realistically if "Earth" could survive several days without sunlight or any other type of radiation? What would the consequences be for the atmosphere once it comes out of twistspace? Very provocative and fun questions.
Of course, it probably wouldn't matter much if the whole colony was imbedded in a moon or asteriod (as you said) and everything was underground.

Just dawned on me what you could have meant. That without the rest of the universe there, the ship's pattern is no longer reflecting it, making it impossible to deduce the universe from the scan.

Yessir, that's exactly what I was eluding to.