Rebooted Battlestar Galactica movie

[Haruko]

If the last 45 minutes did not include Adama and Laura in the Raptor and Lee and Kara on the grass before the latter pulls a Houdini then I'm in that minority, too.

[DesertFly]

Well fine, I'm willing to concede certain scenes in the last chunk were good (including, indeed, Adama and his wife flying to their new home), but the whole "giving up all modern tech to live a life of primitive squalor" really didn't sit right with me. The worst part is, that there was really no need whatsoever. 150,000 years ago is plenty of time for a civilization to live, grow, flourish, and move on (so to speak, perhaps ascension?, or returning to space to find their old homes or whatever) and still disappear without a trace.

[Borgholio]

Well fine, I'm willing to concede certain scenes in the last chunk were good (including, indeed, Adama and his wife flying to their new home), but the whole "giving up all modern tech to live a life of primitive squalor" really didn't sit right with me. The worst part is, that there was really no need whatsoever. 150,000 years ago is plenty of time for a civilization to live, grow, flourish, and move on (so to speak, perhaps ascension?, or returning to space to find their old homes or whatever) and still disappear without a trace.

I was hoping for an allusion to an advanced society living on an island in the Atlantic that was destroyed by a volcano.

[ray245]

The trouble with that is that, in-universe, they are very large, powerful ships. And they are the "mainstay" of the Colonial Fleet. Compare it to the big aircraft carriers, the "mainstay" of the US Navy, despite being (relatively) rare ships. Or to ISD's from SW.

I was hoping that the Battlestars will be more like Super Star Destroyer as opposed to Star Destroyers. We are so used to seeing ships that is 1-2 km long that it sort of make the Galactia seems rather small for a Sci-Fi Capital ship.

The oBSG was trying to convey the idea that the Galactica was basically Noah's ark, but set in space. Making the Galactia look really massive will help to sell the idea to the audience. Not to mention the idea the Galactica was one of the twelve Battlestars ever constructed ( due to cost and difficulties) as opposed to one ageing ship out of 120 Battlestar makes its story a little bit more mythical and grand.

[Borgholio]

If this is based on the original series, then yeah being 1 of 12 would have to have the thing be a truly titanic ship. If we go by US Navy standards, our supercarriers are easily several times as massive as their escorts...so it would make sense.

[Haruko]

Well fine, I'm willing to concede certain scenes in the last chunk were good (including, indeed, Adama and his wife flying to their new home), but the whole "giving up all modern tech to live a life of primitive squalor" really didn't sit right with me. The worst part is, that there was really no need whatsoever. 150,000 years ago is plenty of time for a civilization to live, grow, flourish, and move on (so to speak, perhaps ascension?, or returning to space to find their old homes or whatever) and still disappear without a trace.

I was hoping for an allusion to an advanced society living on an island in the Atlantic that was destroyed by a volcano.

Heh, reminds me of the alternate explanation in PC game Poseidon: Master of Atlantis where Odysseus infiltrates Atlantis to disable the secret weapon they have been threatening to use to sink the Greek city-states, and after defeating an army of scrawny scientists who try to stop him, turns the weapon on and sinks Atlantis.

So it wasn't a volcano really, so much as Odysseus.

And then they went on to defeat the Persians without wearing any armor.

Seems legit.

[ray245]

If this is based on the original series, then yeah being 1 of 12 would have to have the thing be a truly titanic ship. If we go by US Navy standards, our supercarriers are easily several times as massive as their escorts...so it would make sense.

True. Someone posted his idea for a new series of Battlestar a while back, and I really like the approach of making every Battlestar individualised.

Ah here it is:

http://norsehound.deviantart.com/art/Ba ... -117396145

[Eternal_Freedom]

Um, there was never anything in the original series that said "only twelve Battlestars." They had at least 6 left by the peace conference (Atlantia, Galactica, Acropolis, Triton, Pacifica, and Columbia (the first five are seen/mentioned in "Saga of a Star World" whilst the last ship was mentioned as being there in "Gun on Ice Planet Zero") and we know that Rycon was lost several decades before the conference and Pegasus vanished two years earlier. That would be 8 ships survinvg to near the end of a thousand year war. Galactica herself is 500 years old, so they aren't even a new class.

The idea they fought for at least 500 years with only 12 Battlestars (when a full "fleet" was 600 fighting ships according to Commander Kronos) is silly.

The "only twelve Battlestars" is only explicitly mentioned in the new series, when it was 12 original Battlestars.

[ray245]

Um, there was never anything in the original series that said "only twelve Battlestars." They had at least 6 left by the peace conference (Atlantia, Galactica, Acropolis, Triton, Pacifica, and Columbia (the first five are seen/mentioned in "Saga of a Star World" whilst the last ship was mentioned as being there in "Gun on Ice Planet Zero") and we know that Rycon was lost several decades before the conference and Pegasus vanished two years earlier. That would be 8 ships survinvg to near the end of a thousand year war. Galactica herself is 500 years old, so they aren't even a new class.

The idea they fought for at least 500 years with only 12 Battlestars (when a full "fleet" was 600 fighting ships according to Commander Kronos) is silly.

The "only twelve Battlestars" is only explicitly mentioned in the new series, when it was 12 original Battlestars.

I thought the Battlestars are supposed to be very rare ships as opposed to being the mainstray of the fleet? In the sense that only one out of 600 fighting ships in the fleet led by Cronus is a Battlestar?

[Eternal_Freedom]

They can still be rare but have more than 12 of them. Consider, having 12 ships built over at least 500 years (or even if we say there were only ever 12 at once) means that each individual Colony (averaged out) can only support one capital ship at a time, while also supporting hordes of smaller ships.

It's just silly that an advanced civilization like the Colonies can't build more ships than that.

As for being the mainstay of the fleet, see my earlier comparison to the US supercarriers.

[Havok]

Who cares. The Cylons are going to chase them from their home world. They will be the last Battlestar. There will be lots of cool space pew-pews and dramatic tube launches. They aren't going to find Earth before the movie ends, but I bet they will have a good idea where it is and will head there to an ending scene of great hope and musical fanfare. Cue sequel or TV show.

It's just a cash grab with a fairly popular brand name. One re-imagining was enough.

I'll repeat what I said in the Star Wars thread: everything is a cash-grab, the only question is which cash grabs nerds love. Not that I see much to imply that this is anything particularly bad (besides infringing on the territory of a nerd favorite) mind.

The difference with Star Wars is that there are more stories to be told outside of the original. Battlestar Galactica, by it's own defined premise is a finite story. Leave Caprica because the XYZ Cylons forced the human race off. There is one Battlestar protecting all of the human race as they search for Earth. Drama ensues. Space pew pews ensue. Find Earth, defeat the Cyclons. End of story.
Yeah you can play out the travel to Earth part for literally decades if you want, but gawd, who wants to watch that?

[Borgholio]

Yeah you can play out the travel to Earth part for literally decades if you want, but gawd, who wants to watch that?

If it means a decade of Grace Park, I'd be ok with it.

[Tandrax218]

hmm..... i remember when i watched the nBsG there was an episode that went how a group of people were "fed up " by there way of life. They were hard working men and women who made ammo for the panes andguns, miners and a few other professions and one day in the middle of a desperate war for survival ( CUZ THERE ARE only 45 573people left alive on ships ) they decide that they are going on a strike because they want different jobs for themselves and for their children. Adama has a good idea to crush the traitors cuz hats what they are in essence but noooo, a goodie democratic person steps in and asks for more "rights" and the whole episode deals with the whole concept of rights and what not ....

i found this episode very unconvincing because:
-there is constant war and u need constant materials for it
-said materials can only be made by a selsct few who have the skills and know-how
-they have children
-its easier for them to pass their knowledge right to their kids than train a new worker from 0

So i did not liked the idea that u have a few "spoiled litte girls " complaining because their kid cant grow up to be a rocket scientist or pilot or rporter, bla bla
The creators went for pathetichs and totally mised the point which is :
U have a fllet runnng and fighting day to day. there can be no other priorities than survival , so forget about your kid beeing something other than a miner or what ever...


why am i typing this ..??
because episodes of this kind would become common if the series progressed more than 4 seasons...

[Grumman]

i found this episode very unconvincing because:
-there is constant war and u need constant materials for it
-said materials can only be made by a selsct few who have the skills and know-how
-they have children
-its easier for them to pass their knowledge right to their kids than train a new worker from 0

So i did not liked the idea that u have a few "spoiled litte girls " complaining because their kid cant grow up to be a rocket scientist or pilot or rporter, bla bla
The creators went for pathetichs and totally mised the point which is :
U have a fllet runnng and fighting day to day. there can be no other priorities than survival , so forget about your kid beeing something other than a miner or what ever...

Seriously? You can't comprehend that people who spent their entire lives in a society that respected their human rights would object to them and their children being reduced to a caste of slaves?

[Simon_Jester]

Tandrax, if you wish to discuss political arguments I suggest you learn to spell first. Advancing a fascist argument in textspeak, while dismissing the concerns of oppressed people as "bla bla," makes you sound like a complete flaming moron.

Or more likely a troll, so I'll only bother giving you a few sentences of reply here.

One, there is no guarantee that the child of an industrial worker will be best qualified to replace that worker, so the idea of forcing people to become a caste of industrial workers is foolish.

Two, the fact that survival is your top priority doesn't mean that the people running the system get a free pass on responsibility for their actions. If anything, you should be watching a leader closest when a mistake means everyone will die. If leaders decide to basically enslave the citizens they're supposed to be leading to freedom, the citizens may reasonably ask "are you leading us responsibly? Do you plan to keep us as slaves forever? When will you let us go?"

[Havok]

Uh, do you guys grasp the situation the fleet was in. Humanity was literally on the brink of extinction. Not, "oh man if this mission doesn't succeed the President is going to be pissed!" It's hey, if we are caught off guard for one fucking second humanity will no longer exist in the UNIVERSE.
People deciding in the middle of their survival exodus that they want to change jobs and start being bakers and artists and screw the Cylon destroying ammo that is our only defense, is perhaps one of the most ridiculous writing jobs I can remember, and I watched most of Star Trek Voyager.

You guys are ridiculous if you think THAT situation is an acceptable time to have fucking collective bargaining.

One, there is no guarantee that the child of an industrial worker will be best qualified to replace that worker, so the idea of forcing people to become a caste of industrial workers is foolish.

There is however a guarantee that guns will not function without bullets and all the humans left in the universe will die with an extended interruption of supply because of labor issues.

Two, the fact that survival is your top priority doesn't mean that the people running the system get a free pass on responsibility for their actions. If anything, you should be watching a leader closest when a mistake means everyone will die. If leaders decide to basically enslave the citizens they're supposed to be leading to freedom, the citizens may reasonably ask "are you leading us responsibly? Do you plan to keep us as slaves forever? When will you let us go?"

Actually a reasonable person is going to do whatever they can to defeat the Cylons and ensure the survival of the human race so that later on, they can actually have lives to worry about being oppressed. THEN they can decide to be painters or florists or ludites or whatever.

[Tandrax218]

@Grumman

I know that they had rights when they were living in a civilization and society, and every thing was peachy, but hey the world went to shit when the 12 colonies were nuked and now you have only 45k people living, fighting, working and dieing non stop 24/7 just to stay alive. I'm not saying its a good thing their lives are worth only the amount of materials they can make, but its a life. And its the undeniable reality of the situation that without those materials the human RACE in this scenario / story ends. Period.
They can reclaim their lives back when they win the war or find earth or safety or whatever. Now their survival depends on non stop production.

@Simon J

Lol english is not my native language so pardon moi for my grammar/spelling
I'm not trolling, i just have a different perspective, it falls under the "freedom of speech" part does it not ??

Another thing. You probably misread or got the concept wrong here. I'm not advocating fascism, im opposed to it in general, but i fail to see how said people can even think about being anything else than that they are the moment - factory workers. Sure the job sucks, but it keeps them alive. Later they can be what ever they want. And since the writers had the "children" element here it only makes sense to train them in a profession that their parents do. You are right that it does not mean they are the best candidates for the job BUT the process is more cost effective and less time consuming than bringing in a new person and training him from scratch.


About your last remark : Yes all you say is right and correct and it works in ideal conditions, and those conditions are not the ones the fleet was in at that time. Its life and death situation and the totally wrong time to have democratic debates on " boo hooo hoo i hate my job at the moment i want something else " when the only thing between their lives and death is a steady stream of ammo that they produce. And another thing. You all caught the detail that the workers are almost as slaves, that's the most obvious thing and the writers of the show were aiming for that, but then again what should the marines and pilots and army personel say?? Because they are if nothing else "slave " soldiers. for them there is no other viable profession at the moment.


@Havok
Yeah you got what i was tryingto say

[Grumman]

And another thing. You all caught the detail that the workers are almost as slaves, that's the most obvious thing and the writers of the show were aiming for that, but then again what should the marines and pilots and army personel say?? Because they are if nothing else "slave " soldiers. for them there is no other viable profession at the moment.

Are those soldiers being told that their children will be conscripted as soldiers too, because it "makes sense" that the child of a soldier should be trained as a soldier? Does it "make sense" that the children of those in command should be groomed to rule, while the workers' children toil and the soldiers' children die?

[Tandrax218]

I don't know whats going on with the soldiers kid or Command kids, apart from Apollo
But the thing here is not whether something makes sense or not, its about urgency, need and efficiency.

You are looking it from the vantage point of a civilization with all its rights, comforts and advantages, but the people in the show have lost civilization in a sense and comfort completely, they are lucky to be alive.

+ there is a difference with a child working in a factory, and a child going to war. As i recall there was a child working on a factory line, i don't know what it was, but if you think of it from a "every one needs to pull their weight to victory" perspective it makes sense to use children for menial tasks around the factory. it frees the adults to do more work, while the kids get a inside look at how things work in the shop. I'm not saying child labor is good, its bad, but given the situation the fleet was in i find it normal under the circumstances.

[Tandrax218]

I'll probably be labeled Grand Master of Fascism for this thread

[Gandalf]

Dirty Hands is my favourite episode of nBSG, because it shows that life aboard the fleet just blows. Day after day of metal environs punctuated by the occasional moments of terror as a Cylon may or may not be shooting at you.

As i recall there was a child working on a factory line, i don't know what it was, but if you think of it from a "every one needs to pull their weight to victory" perspective it makes sense to use children for menial tasks around the factory. it frees the adults to do more work, while the kids get a inside look at how things work in the shop. I'm not saying child labor is good, its bad, but given the situation the fleet was in i find it normal under the circumstances.

He was working in the tylium refinery, which as we saw is not a good workplace for children.

I get the idea of having children do the menial jobs once they pass a certain age, but wouldn't it make make far more sense to have them in more aptitude based roles as opposed to just the ones their parents had?

"This kid's a genius. We could put him with Doc Cottle now as an apprentice, and he could be the replacement when the time comes."
"Too bad his father's a cleaner. Bring the mop!"

[tezunegari]

I get the idea of having children do the menial jobs once they pass a certain age, but wouldn't it make make far more sense to have them in more aptitude based roles as opposed to just the ones their parents had?

The job placement was relatively based on their aptitude and experience.

The kid was around 15 to 17 and placed on the tylium refinery because he had spent a summer working on a farm which apparently is somehow similar enough to the tylium refining process or was considered to have taught him enough to be best suited for the job.

And I think the striking ammo manufacturers / saboteurs that made faulty ammo were part of a dissident movement that called for peace talks with the cylons... the same movement Gine Invere (Pegasus-Six) joined before nuking the Cloud-9.

[Scrib]

I get the idea of having children do the menial jobs once they pass a certain age, but wouldn't it make make far more sense to have them in more aptitude based roles as opposed to just the ones their parents had?

The job placement was relatively based on their aptitude and experience.

The kid was around 15 to 17 and placed on the tylium refinery because he had spent a summer working on a farm which apparently is somehow similar enough to the tylium refining process or was considered to have taught him enough to be best suited for the job.

And I think the striking ammo manufacturers / saboteurs that made faulty ammo were part of a dissident movement that called for peace talks with the cylons... the same movement Gine Invere (Pegasus-Six) joined before nuking the Cloud-9.

I'm pretty sure that Gina nuked those? The tylium people just wanted to not be tylium people, I think the Cylon peacers didn't survive New Caprica for obvious reasons.

Actually a reasonable person is going to do whatever they can to defeat the Cylons and ensure the survival of the human race so that later on, they can actually have lives to worry about being oppressed. THEN they can decide to be painters or florists or ludites or whatever.

The problem is obvious:once you let government trample over your rights when convenient for "security" it never stops.Who knows when the war will end? Earth is a pipe dream And these people were right imo, trying to create a permanent menial class is unacceptable.If people can stand the inconvenience of elections then they can let people off the tylium ship somehow.

(And notice that later, when it suits Adama and for "the safety of the fleet", he imprisons the Vice President and then refuses to follow the line of succession effectively performing a coup. That's how it goes.)

Adama and Roslin were looking out for their interests by crushing the revolt but they did something better by loosening their grip after they'd done the violence.

[aieeegrunt]

If I was pulling 12 hour shifts day after day while the politicals on a luxury liner were sitting in meetings I would be fed up with it too.

Paraphrasing the chief, it was indeed high time the people on Colonial 1 got their hands dirty

[xerex]

I don't know whats going on with the soldiers kid or Command kids, apart from Apollo
But the thing here is not whether something makes sense or not, its about urgency, need and efficiency.

.

Baltar actually brought this up later in the series; given that at one point the command structure went from Adama, to his son Apollo to Apollo's wife Dee , Baltar asked "when will this fleet be led by someone without the surname Adama?" The Fleet was facing the very real potential of an Adama military dynasty being the real power despite whoever got elected President.