Data fights a Grizzly Bear

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biostem
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Re: Data fights a Grizzly Bear

Post by biostem »

I can't recall an instance where Data exhibited any high degree of speed or dodging ability. In the few instances where his strength is portrayed, it's usually applied in a slower, more deliberate fashion - such as when wrestling with that Borg drone in the episode where Lore was leading a group of them, or in the example with the bending the bar.

Something like a long medieval pike, like those used against mounted knights, would be best, and I think Data would know how to use it properly. In general, though, he seems to take the hits delivered to him, and rely on his durability to see him through. Similarly, while we have seen him demonstrate superior speed, but those applications seem to be on a smaller scale - such as quickly reinserting isolinear chips or when entering computer commands by hand.

We don't see him running at superhuman speeds, so we don't know if he could just outrun the bear, let it exhaust itself, then simply approach it and deliver a killing blow. In that episode with the radioactive probe that he was trying to retrieve, a blow to the head easily shred his skin covering, and a spear/lance/pole thing was able to piece his torso and "deactivate" him with just human force behind it, (granted he wasn't trying to fight back).

Data also didn't seem to have a huge degree of awareness of his surroundings - such as when Q transported them to a Robin Hood setting, and Troi was able to shoot him with an arrow without him noticing until after said arrow had hit him.
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Re: Data fights a Grizzly Bear

Post by Simon_Jester »

biostem wrote:I can't recall an instance where Data exhibited any high degree of speed or dodging ability.
In Home Soil from the first season, Data repeatedly ducks and weaves to avoid the beam of a laser drilling machine that is trying to kill him, then smashes it. That's a pretty respectable display of agility given that the same machine had previously succeeded in killing a human being before he even knew what hit him.
Data also didn't seem to have a huge degree of awareness of his surroundings - such as when Q transported them to a Robin Hood setting, and Troi was able to shoot him with an arrow without him noticing until after said arrow had hit him.
Again, it seems to depend on the situation. He's easy to ambush at some times, and uncommonly alert at others.
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Re: Data fights a Grizzly Bear

Post by Eulogy »

This is obviously just some big setup by the Borg Queen to see if bears are worth assimilating. For the future of the galaxy, even if he doesn't know it, Data needs to win.

Therefore, the most effective option is for Data to bring an exploding sword with him and chuck it at the bear.

The OP never said anything about the melee weapons being modified... :angelic:
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TheFeniX
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Re: Data fights a Grizzly Bear

Post by TheFeniX »

Simon_Jester wrote:I'm actually not sure Data's tougher than a bear; do we routinely see Data handle serious blunt-force trauma better than a (moderately toughened and enhanced) human would?
I doubt Data is physically tougher than a bear, but toughness isn't concrete. I could hit a bear in the chest with a baseball bat all day and just piss him off. But a crack on the head can end one immediately. I wouldn't expect a head hit to be as debilitating to Data as it is to an mammal.

Barring a hit to the head, even a bear charging a human isn't likely to immediately put that person out of commission. It's when the bear starts stomping, clawing, biting that more damage gets done. Humans are pretty tough, baring (as mentioned) lucky hits that end up just killing us outright. Same with most animals. Data shouldn't have that problem and the ability to ignore fear and pain means he's in about the best position to deal with a bear while unarmed.

The anvil lifting scene shows a lot more than just lifting strength for data. His hands and fingers have to be strong enough not to lose his grip. His back and legs as well. That's general toughness since even a professional weight lifter would have to worry about permanently damaging his back (at the least) trying to do the same thing. Not to mention, he just continues to hold it like it's a cheap prop, so stamina isn't a factor either.
A good choice of melee weapon for Data would be something like a boar spear, which has a crosspiece in place to keep things from charging right up the shaft and impaling themselves.

If he can severely wound the bear, reducing its mobility, without getting into a grapple, he then has a reasonable chance of outmaneuvering the beast and/or beating it with heavy thrown objects from a distance.
I think a spear gives Data the fight outright. Bears charge and/or rear-up on their hind-legs to intimidate when confronted. Charging means data can line up the spear to impale the bear through the heart or lungs. He's more than strong enough to hold the spear firm while physics does the work. If the bear rears up, well that just exposes everything for Data. Even if it didn't, I don't think Data would have much issue working out how to stab a bear in the eye with a spear while it swipes at him in a threat display.

If all else fails, I'm pretty sure Data could just crush or rip off anything he manages to get a hand on.
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Re: Data fights a Grizzly Bear

Post by Mr. G »

TheFeniX wrote:The anvil lifting scene shows a lot more than just lifting strength for data. His hands and fingers have to be strong enough not to lose his grip. His back and legs as well. That's general toughness since even a professional weight lifter would have to worry about permanently damaging his back (at the least) trying to do the same thing. Not to mention, he just continues to hold it like it's a cheap prop, so stamina isn't a factor either.
I think that's not beyond a very strong human (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDAm_2cWICE). The bar bending act was much more impressive in that regard, as I don't think any human could do that.
A good choice of melee weapon for Data would be something like a boar spear, which has a crosspiece in place to keep things from charging right up the shaft and impaling themselves.

If he can severely wound the bear, reducing its mobility, without getting into a grapple, he then has a reasonable chance of outmaneuvering the beast and/or beating it with heavy thrown objects from a distance.
I think a spear gives Data the fight outright. Bears charge and/or rear-up on their hind-legs to intimidate when confronted. Charging means data can line up the spear to impale the bear through the heart or lungs. He's more than strong enough to hold the spear firm while physics does the work. If the bear rears up, well that just exposes everything for Data. Even if it didn't, I don't think Data would have much issue working out how to stab a bear in the eye with a spear while it swipes at him in a threat display.

If all else fails, I'm pretty sure Data could just crush or rip off anything he manages to get a hand on.
I guess the greater strength of Data's "tissues" would be a significant factor: the bear is stronger than him in total power but data's fingers can pierce the bear's skin.

Data's greater intelligence can also be a factor. Though it wouldn't help him much if the bear just comes charging into him.
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TheFeniX
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Re: Data fights a Grizzly Bear

Post by TheFeniX »

Mr. G wrote:I think that's not beyond a very strong human (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDAm_2cWICE). The bar bending act was much more impressive in that regard, as I don't think any human could do that.
Star Trek doesn't even know what duranium is. It's used to create starship hulls but acording to the wiki DS9 pegs it as a naturally occurring ore. Could be stronger than titanium, I don't know. If it is, I would say Data has the ability to just crush a Bear's midsection by using his arms as a vice. A bear might weigh more than a hydraulic vice, but put his head/torso in one and he's dead.

The anvil is a pretty standard metal/stone construct. Two large men couldn't budge it, whereas Data effortlessly lifts it up and holds it, so it's safe to assume he can lift and carry a lot more. This is a feat that can also be performed by humans in top physical shape, with a lot more grunting. And since a guy who wasn't anywhere near that shape had the strength to choke a bear unconscious, this would be a lot easier for data.
I guess the greater strength of Data's "tissues" would be a significant factor: the bear is stronger than him in total power but data's fingers can pierce the bear's skin.
I'm not sure a bear is actually physically stronger than Data. Pound for pound, a bear is likely not even in the same league as Data since it's flesh and blood and he is not. But the bear is more massive than Data, so it can throw him around, even though I would bet the farm on Data in an arm wrestling contest or dead-lift.
Data's greater intelligence can also be a factor. Though it wouldn't help him much if the bear just comes charging into him.
Probably does actually. Like I said, barring a lucky hit disabling Data, knocking him to the ground and putting your neck in crushing/choking distance while you try to eat him is going to end badly when you consider even a normal human has choked a bear unconscious this way. People kill grizzly bears with bows and arrows. Crazy people. But people.
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