Geonosis/Klendathu Swap

[Zwinmar]

Just an off the cuff theory:

Depending on when Heinlen wrote Starship Toopers he may well have not extrapolated that there are radios now at the fireteam level (at least) at that Marines are trained to call in support fire. As such, it may not have crossed his mind to have anything below company level be able to call in orbital bombardment.

[Purple]

To be fair in a situation where your primary means of fire support is orbital bombardment with atomic weapons you probably do not want it being relegated too far down lest you hit something you don't want to hit because the guy calling it in does not have a complete picture of what's going on on the ground.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

To be fair in a situation where your primary means of fire support is orbital bombardment with atomic weapons you probably do not want it being relegated too far down lest you hit something you don't want to hit because the guy calling it in does not have a complete picture of what's going on on the ground.

Except, back in 1958-59, when Heinlein wrote Starship Troopers, this country still had a love affair with nuclear-warhead everything, even down to the M28/29 Davy Crockett tactical nuclear recoilless gun and its 10-20 ton yield M-388 projectile(a variant of the W-54 nuclear warhead), so it's entirely feasible that Heinlein intended for man-portable nuclear weapons systems to filter down to at least squad-level amongst his Mobile Infantry.

[Purple]

To be fair in a situation where your primary means of fire support is orbital bombardment with atomic weapons you probably do not want it being relegated too far down lest you hit something you don't want to hit because the guy calling it in does not have a complete picture of what's going on on the ground.

Except, back in 1958-59, when Heinlein wrote Starship Troopers, this country still had a love affair with nuclear-warhead everything, even down to the M28/29 Davy Crockett tactical nuclear recoilless gun and its 10-20 ton yield M-388 projectile(a variant of the W-54 nuclear warhead), so it's entirely feasible that Heinlein intended for man-portable nuclear weapons systems to filter down to at least squad-level amongst his Mobile Infantry.

Except that those things are not the same kind of atomic weapon we are talking about here. We are talking about fire support from orbital platforms. There is a vast difference between a Davy Crockett and having a starship fire down ICBM's from orbit.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Oh, shit. Never mind me, Purple, you were talking about apples(calling down fire), while I was discussing oranges(the actual possession of nukes). My bad.

[Captain Seafort]

Now now, mini-nukes were fireteam level heavy weapons. Carried by the section leaders, because you wouldn't give a buck private an atom bomb. But a lance corporal? Definitely.

When Rico used his mini-nukes (of which he had four) he was an acting corporal and "section" 2iC, and it was only the second time he'd carried them. Who else was issued the things is unknown. I put the term "section" in inverted commas because the unit in question is effectively a platoon (three 8-man sections, plus iC and 2iC), two of which plus a subaltern and sergeant make up an MI platoon.

Depending on when Heinlen wrote Starship Toopers he may well have not extrapolated that there are radios now at the fireteam level (at least) at that Marines are trained to call in support fire. As such, it may not have crossed his mind to have anything below company level be able to call in orbital bombardment.

Then he obviously didn't know much about current artillery procedures - direct comms between infantry platoons (and sometimes sections) and their battalion's supporting artillery battery was SOP at least as early as the Korean War (albeit during the static phase).

[Simon_Jester]

He darn well gave every M.I. trooper a radio.

I think what it comes down to is that the M.I. have, organic to their own formation, heavy weapons capable of engaging any target out to the horizon, with firepower up to and including low-yield tactical nuclear weapons. They don't need artillery support in the normal sense of the term. The only category of targets they can't handle by themselves would be truly enormous 'carpet' targets covering countless square miles of land, or targets so hardened the Hiroshima bomb isn't enough to stop them.

Any situation bad enough that the M.I. call for air support, is bad enough that the decision of when and how to employ that air support can only be made at a fairly high level of the chain of command. Otherwise it's not a problem for the Navy, it's "assistant file leader, nuke that enemy troop concentration," followed by "okay," and a big mushroom cloud where the enemy used to be.

To be fair in a situation where your primary means of fire support is orbital bombardment with atomic weapons you probably do not want it being relegated too far down lest you hit something you don't want to hit because the guy calling it in does not have a complete picture of what's going on on the ground.

Except, back in 1958-59, when Heinlein wrote Starship Troopers, this country still had a love affair with nuclear-warhead everything, even down to the M28/29 Davy Crockett tactical nuclear recoilless gun and its 10-20 ton yield M-388 projectile(a variant of the W-54 nuclear warhead), so it's entirely feasible that Heinlein intended for man-portable nuclear weapons systems to filter down to at least squad-level amongst his Mobile Infantry.

He did, because Johnny Rico, in his first drop as a non-com, is lobbing two-kiloton rockets at whatever looks big and important.

That said, Purple is... right.

Strategic nuclear weapons (i.e. megaton-range and up) simply cannot be on call for fire support by ground troops, even troops as well protected as the M.I., without massive friendly fire casualties. The decision to fire them simply cannot realistically be made by anyone except officers, and preferably by at least field-grade officers (i.e. majors and colonels) with the experience and access to information that permits them to make the right decisions in such a situation.

Honestly this would be equally true of turbolaser gunfire in Star Wars. Having a stormtrooper platoon calling down a barrage of light turbolaser fire is a great way to accidentally vaporize the other stormtrooper platoon.