Starfleet's level in B5.

[SpacedTeddyBear]

While there is no evidence at this moment that can prove that the Minbari Warcruiser can take more punishment from 2 2MT bombs ( DAMN IT ALL!!!) , there is evidence that shows that the Minbari weapons can intercept fire from enemy ships. In Legend of the Rangers, Liandra's weapons were able to intercept a shot or to being fired on the Valenn. If the targeting systems on the Warcruisers are on par with the Liandra, the the cruisers stand a fighting chance against Fed ships.

As for FTL travel, it depends on the destination and the speed of the ship.

[Shadow]

The Federation would be considered a freakishly powerful Middle Race. The chain reactions imposed by phasers on planetary crusts would initially be mistaken for First One technology if observed out of context. However, I don't see how the UFP could outsmart the First Ones ... not without extensive research and experience.

By comparison, the Galactic Empire would be at least like the Kirishiac - "mortals" with FO technology, even Thirdspace level as far as weapons and shielding are concerned.

The Culture ... well, even Lorien would be astonished, although he might get on quite well with the Minds.

Federation technology is beyond the Shadows and Vorlons. They lack the capability to destroy a star. A spread of photon torpedoes does it in "Half a Life." Trilithium, a warp core by-product, can destroy stars, too. 20 ships that are weaker than a non-upgraded GCS can destroy a planet in 6 hours. There is also the genesis device. The Galactic Empire is far beyond the First Ones in technology. As for the Culture, all of B5 is nothing to even a GCU.

[Master of Ossus]

In Legend of the Rangers, Liandra's weapons were able to intercept a shot or to being fired on the Valenn. If the targeting systems on the Warcruisers are on par with the Liandra, the the cruisers stand a fighting chance against Fed ships.

As for FTL travel, it depends on the destination and the speed of the ship.

So? They can intercept weapons fire. All of that energy must go SOMEWHERE, though. A 64 MT weapon would overload the defenses of a ship that cannot withstand a 2 MT proximity hit, if the torpedo was anywhere NEAR the Sharlin.

Hyperspace seems to matter on the ROUTE taken, more than the destination (except in a very general sense. For instance, Zha'Ha'Dum is difficult to get to because the hyperspace around it has been warped and mined with obstacles, making getting there by any route difficult).

[corporial]

Just to add in something, Minbari & Centari are not middle born. Otherwise it would be: (these are very loose figures)
races with hyperspace tech for around 200 years = younger races
races with hyperspace tech for around 1000 years = middle born
races with hyperspace tech for around 1 billion years = first ones

Not exactly the best way to rate them. I would put Minbari & centari in the younger races and have the great machine race, and the Tertimude be considered middle born.

As for how I would rate Federation compared to others.... In terms of weapons and defense they are above the first ones. In other categories they are well below the first ones. Races such as the Walkers can move between dimensions at will, likewise the vorlons were able to build some sort of device to go between selected dimensions. The shadows built a device to protect their home world called "the eye" which can almost completely control people telepathically. In some respects they aren't even as advanced as middle born races. The federation has nothing able to do what the great machine.

[starfury]

federation technology is certainly below that of the FO's in the special areas, of dimension phasing and other weird and unordothox technolgy, their firepower, agility of ships and shields however are definetley well above that of the FO, who still don't have true shields even after millions of years.

[Solid Snake]

So? Voyager has demonstrated to us that armor is better than sheilds. And in B5, bio-armor is uber-armor. So, who cares if they dont have "true sheilds?" Meaning stupid bubble shields.

[Shadow]

So? Voyager has demonstrated to us that armor is better than sheilds. And in B5, bio-armor is uber-armor. So, who cares if they dont have "true sheilds?" Meaning stupid bubble shields.

Bio-Armor != Ablative armor

Third-space, which is more powerful than the first ones, has shields.

[Solid Snake]

Hmm, got me there.

[Patrick Degan]

Genesis device. Used once. Mass-producable? Damned if I know, but the capability is there.

No, the Genesis Device is a lost technology. The one and only working example was lost in creating the planet Genesis, which subsequently tore itself apart due to the instability of protomatter. The design specs were all lost and all but two of the project scientists was killed by Khan Singh, with another subsequently killed by the Klingons. The sheer loss of data and R&D experience would have rendered Genesis technology irreproducable.

Soran's trilithium anti-star torpedo. Used once. Mass-producable? Damned if I know, but firepower like that outclasses anything the FOs ever did on screen.

Also a lost technology. Soran never transferred the design specs for his sunkiller to the Duras sisters, and even if he had, they would have been lost when their BOP was shot down by the Enterprise. The computer with the specs was destroyed on Veridian III, along with the one working example of the device, and Soran himself was killed attempting to launch it. It took Soran 80 years of R&D to finally yield working prototypes of his weapon, and any other scientists he may have had assisting him on the project were killed in the crossfire between the Romulan raiders and the Duras Klingons on the Amagosa Observatory, which was subsequently destroyed by the shockfront of Amagosa's detonation. No data, no scientists with experience in the design and development, no working examples, and the central genius behind the project itself dead. This weapon is irreproducable. Other trilithium-based weapons may be possible, since several groups seem to be researching them. But Soran's stellar quantum inhibitor is lost.

[Rathark]

Federation technology is beyond the Shadows and Vorlons. They lack the capability to destroy a star. A spread of photon torpedoes does it in "Half a Life."

Was this the result of some sort of chain reaction?

[Dead on Arrival]

Imagine the fun Meatfucker would have with the FOs. I wonder what an effectorized Vorlon would sound like...

Assuming said Effector can get through the Vorlon's mental shields...

Federation technology is beyond the Shadows and Vorlons. They lack the capability to destroy a star.

Lack the capability, or never had a need to do so? We know that the Earth's sun will eventually be forced to nova (something it cannot do naturally), so the capability is there.

A spread of photon torpedoes does it in "Half a Life." Trilithium, a warp core by-product, can destroy stars, too.

A specially calibrated spread of torpedoes did it on accident, and if such a thing were easily reproduced why the big deal about Soren's trilithium device?

20 ships that are weaker than a non-upgraded GCS can destroy a planet in 6 hours.

How do you know those ships were weaker than a non-upgraded GCS? We know from the series they were upgraded from normal Cardassian and Romulan ships, so I am curious where you are getting that. Also, the effects on the planet are debateble. Most logical people look at the scene and say, "Hey, how come the planet is glowing brighter than the sun from all the energy being impared into it?" Then you have the ones like you who twist "destroy the crust in 1 hour and the mantle in 5 hours" into the complete destruction of a planet.

There is also the genesis device.

Lost-tech, never mention again...

The Galactic Empire is far beyond the First Ones in technology. As for the Culture, all of B5 is nothing to even a GCU.

Who cares, even if it is partially true, what relevance does it have in a thread about where Starfleet fits in B5?

federation technology is certainly below that of the FO's in the special areas, of dimension phasing and other weird and unordothox technolgy, their firepower, agility of ships and shields however are definetley well above that of the FO, who still don't have true shields even after millions of years.

Yet, the techno-mages, a group created by the Shadows to be weapons, can generate true shields using technology given to them by the Shadows through the Drakh. Just because they don't use something, doesn't mean they aren't fully aware of it. Also, given JMS statement that Subspace does not exist in B5...almost every single piece of technology in ST will not work there.

[Dead on Arrival]

EDIT: Bleh, change...

"Most logical people look at the scene and say, "Hey, how come the planet is glowing brighter than the sun from all the energy being impared into it?"

to

Most logical people look at the scene and say, "Hey, how come the planet ISN'T glowing brighter than the sun from all the energy being imparted into it?"

[starfury]

20 ships that are weaker than a non-upgraded GCS can destroy a planet in 6 hours.

proof, the level of damage the cardie/Romulan fleet did was at most similar to the narn/drazi bombing of centuari prime, causing only a few fires and shock waves it seems on the atmosphere, how can anybody bring that crap on the TDIC again, it's getting tiring.

[Dead on Arrival]

We never saw the effects of the heavier Narn beam weapons on the planet, millions did in fact die (millions more would have had the Drakh detonated the planted fusion mines), and the majority of the energy from a bolt consisting of particles/plasma (the weapons used by the Drazi) will be greatly dissipated by transit through the planet's upper atmosphere before it ever reachs the ground. These bolts were still causing shockwaves able to knock G'Kar off his feet at several km distance from the point of impact, and set fire to (ie: melted, etc) the primarily stone/metal structures found in the Centauri capital.

[Enlightenment]

No, the Genesis Device is a lost technology. The one and only working example was lost in creating the planet Genesis, which subsequently tore itself apart due to the instability of protomatter. The design specs were all lost and all but two of the project scientists was killed by Khan Singh, with another subsequently killed by the Klingons. The sheer loss of data and R&D experience would have rendered Genesis technology irreproducable.

The laws of physics, however, remain the same and are the same for everyone. The loss of all design data and process knowhow does not mean that the laws of physics have suddenly changed to the point that protomatter-based edevices will no longer work. The underlying material behavors still function and given enough time and effort the technology can be reproduced. Destroying engineering infrastructure and tooling certainly makes things much, much harder to reproduce but it does not render them impossible.

You don't, after all, seriously expect that removing all nuclear devices (weapons, reactors, etc) from the face of the earth and killing all the nuclear engineers would make it utterly impossible for humanity to ever build another nuclear device?

[Enlightenment]

Assuming said Effector can get through the Vorlon's mental shields...

You seriously expect Culture effectors to have any problems with something as underpowered as a Vorlon?

ROFL. ROFL. ROFL.

[Typhonis 1]

Actually the Genesis device would have worked really well if used on a planet like it was designed to however it used alot oif enrgy in creating the Genesis planet and a sun for it possibly after alll how many nebulas have stars in em ?

[Dead on Arrival]

You seriously expect Culture effectors to have any problems with something as underpowered as a Vorlon?

ROFL. ROFL. ROFL.

Do you even know how an effector works? An effector sends an EM-signal through Culture-Hyperspace, that is it. It is a futuristic cellular modem, with the ability to access and rewrite memory. It is electronic telepathy, so give me one reason it could not be blocked by the telepathic barriers of a Vorlon?

[Dead on Arrival]

Actually the Genesis device would have worked really well if used on a planet like it was designed to however it used alot oif enrgy in creating the Genesis planet and a sun for it possibly after alll how many nebulas have stars in em ?

Said 'nebula' was inside of a system, next to a planet. The genesis device created an unstable planet, nothing more. Claiming it created a star is just silly...

[Enlightenment]

Do you even know how an effector works? An effector sends an EM-signal through Culture-Hyperspace, that is it. It is a futuristic cellular modem, with the ability to access and rewrite memory. It is electronic telepathy, so give me one reason it could not be blocked by the telepathic barriers of a Vorlon?

Think about the Culture's power generation abilities and how much energy Culture devices could put into an EM signal.

Now think about how much power a Vorlon can sink without exploding.

[Dead on Arrival]

Think about the Culture's power generation abilities and how much energy Culture devices could put into an EM signal.

Power generation is nice, but does an effector vaporize or cause short or longterm damage to its target? If no, then obviously there is a limit to how much power they can put into the signal.

Now think about how much power a Vorlon can sink without exploding.

Ulkesh was unharmed by the directed output of the station and hundreds of PPG pulses from the station's security teams. There is also the likely possibility that a Vorlon doesn't have a 'brain' as we do, but is instead a free-floating consciousness (ie: a manifested soul). They have become beings of light, so we should no assume they share any biology with us 'lesser' beings.