Fleet of 15 Battlestars vs. 15 Galaxy Class Starships

[Kuja]

Don't forget, these Battlestars are in prime fighting condition, not weighed down by refugees and the need to defend a fleet 24/7.

Battlestars are made of an ablative armor type that can radiate energy blasts back into space (small ones at least) they can also project a shield to defend agaisnt incoming topedoes, so the "fall back and snipe" strategy won't necessarily work

[Kuja]

(Fact) Out of more then 100 times Fed Beam Phasers have been fired, there is a single example of them missing.

Conclussion, Federation Beam phasers have a 99% accuracy rating and hence don't suck.

Ha. Those numbers mean nothing Alyeska. Did you survey 100 RANDOM phaser firings? I doubt it. Anyone can pick and choose to twist numbers, and that conclusion is not necessarily true.

[Howedar]

It is true. Against large ships at close ranges, Federation beam phasers have almost 100% accuracy. The problem is that this doesn't demonstrate any ability to hit small targets, or targets at range, or small targets at range.

[Kuja]

GCSs have shown superior range and speed. The GCSs merely need stay away from the Battlestars and snipe at any approaching Vipers. The Vipers range is limited and the GCSs will have an easy time picking them off.

There's his plan, Howe. If Feds have trouble hitting "large targets at range", than that plus the BSs shields and armor will make it all but useless.

[Alyeska]

(Fact) Out of more then 100 times Fed Beam Phasers have been fired, there is a single example of them missing.

Conclussion, Federation Beam phasers have a 99% accuracy rating and hence don't suck.

Ha. Those numbers mean nothing Alyeska. Did you survey 100 RANDOM phaser firings? I doubt it. Anyone can pick and choose to twist numbers, and that conclusion is not necessarily true.

Out of all the examples of phasers firing, there are only three known examples from TNG+. IIRC all three are from Voyager.

So, of more then 100 times phasers have been fired in ST (TNG+) you will find only three episode examples (one of them is with manual fire because the main computer was out no less).

Those numbers mean everything.

[Alyeska]

GCSs have shown superior range and speed. The GCSs merely need stay away from the Battlestars and snipe at any approaching Vipers. The Vipers range is limited and the GCSs will have an easy time picking them off.

There's his plan, Howe. If Feds have trouble hitting "large targets at range", than that plus the BSs shields and armor will make it all but useless.

ST ships have demonstarted further combat range then BS's ever have. ST ships have demonstrated the ability to hit small targets at a further range then Vipers can fire on capital ships.

[Kuja]

Out of all the examples of phasers firing, there are only three known examples from TNG+. IIRC all three are from Voyager.

So, of more then 100 times phasers have been fired in ST (TNG+) you will find only three episode examples (one of them is with manual fire because the main computer was out no less).

Those numbers mean everything.

Does that include the E:D repeatedly missing the BOP in ST:Gens?

ST ships have demonstarted further combat range then BS's ever have. ST ships have demonstrated the ability to hit small targets at a further range then Vipers can fire on capital ships.

Does that include the E:D being unable to shoot down its own errant torpedoes in one episode?

[Alyeska]

Does that include the E:D repeatedly missing the BOP in ST:Gens?

Watch again, the Enterprise-D fires only twice in the movie and scored hits both times (accuracy, 100%)

Does that include the E:D being unable to shoot down its own errant torpedoes in one episode?

And what episode is this regarding? FYI the Enterprise expected to be able to shoot down Soran's torpedo in Generations in no more then 15 seconds time. However the
Torpedo could reach a the star in 12 seconds, and this is from a planet approximately 1 AU from the star.

[Kuja]

Not the movie! The episode where the E-D is testing it's "new and improved" weaponry and the "de-evolution virus" wreaks havoc.

[Alyeska]

Not the movie! The episode where the E-D is testing it's "new and improved" weaponry and the "de-evolution virus" wreaks havoc.

Ah, you mean when they attempt to shoot down an expirimental weapon? I see you ignored the fact that Voyager can hit enemy torpedoes up to 8 million KM away with their own, or how Voyager could hit their own torpedo with a phaser strike.

I also see how you complete ignored the fact that I trashed your earlier comment. Just gonna ingore it and hope it goes away?

[Kuja]

Ah, you mean when they attempt to shoot down an expirimental weapon? I see you ignored the fact that Voyager can hit enemy torpedoes up to 8 million KM away with their own, or how Voyager could hit their own torpedo with a phaser strike.

So they have a 50% success rating of shooting down their own torps? And were these torps headed straight for Voyager, or were they boosting, braking, climbing, and diving the way a fighter will?

I also see how you complete ignored the fact that I trashed your earlier comment. Just gonna ingore it and hope it goes away?

My bad. I concede.

[Alyeska]

So they have a 50% success rating of shooting down their own torps? And were these torps headed straight for Voyager, or were they boosting, braking, climbing, and diving the way a fighter will?

The TNG torpedo, I have no clue. However it was of little enough importance they did not bother to run it down. Generations makes it very clear that a GCS can run down a torpedo in 15 seconds in a single AU. The Voyager torpedo was fired at an oncomming torpedo at warp.

[Kuja]

The Voyager torpedo was fired at an oncomming torpedo at warp.

Wait a minute. I thought we were talking about phasers?

[Alyeska]

The Voyager torpedo was fired at an oncomming torpedo at warp.

Wait a minute. I thought we were talking about phasers?

Not the Voyager one. But it shows torpedoes can hit small targets at long range.

[Darth Wong]

So, of more then 100 times phasers have been fired in ST (TNG+) you will find only three episode examples (one of them is with manual fire because the main computer was out no less).

Those numbers mean everything.

Yes, but you are confusing your interpretation of those numbers with the numbers themselves (a common mistake).

Let's take the observations and pit them against two theories.

Theory #1: Federation accuracy is limited, which will prove a problem against large numbers of small, maneuverable craft. This explains the use of area-effect explosives against smaller targets eg. torpedoes in VOY, and it also explains the fact that despite a high observed firing rate (as demonstrated in "Survivors"), they usually fire only sporadically in combat. They usually hit, but they rarely fire until they have a lock, and they have trouble getting a lock on all but the biggest and slowest targets (the ship in "Survivors" was huge by their standards).

Theory #2 (yours): Federation ships can easily hit large numbers of small targets at great range. This is demonstrated by their ability to fire sporadic shots in combat at very large targets, particularly since their success rate in this particular situation is very high. The fact that they did not fire on Viper-sized ships in "Conundrum" until they were almost on top of them, and the fact that their refire rate against huge, immobile targets is much, much higher than it is against, say, a BOP are both just coincidences which can be chalked up to command incompetence.

Sorry, but I don't see how your theory makes more sense.

[Alyeska]

Conundrum is a bad example for standard practice seeing as they didn't hav their memories. And the example from Voyager hitting a torpedo sized target (smaller then a Viper sized target) at 8 million KM says a great deal. They can hit targets at extreme range, and they can even hit small targets. FYI, the reason they used torpedoes in Voyager and not phasers is because phasers don't have a range of 8 million KM. I have no doubt they would have used phasers to try and shoot it down had it gotten closer.

I see you also ignored the Generations bit where the GCS was going to run down the solar torpedo.

FYI, Generations shows a GCS has both good range, and can move fast to intercept targets. BOBW shows a GCS can move from Saturn to Mars in 23 minutes without using warp drive.

[Kuja]

Conundrum is a bad example for standard practice seeing as they didn't hav their memories. And the example from Voyager hitting a torpedo sized target (smaller then a Viper sized target) at 8 million KM says a great deal. They can hit targets at extreme range, and they can even hit small targets. FYI, the reason they used torpedoes in Voyager and not phasers is because phasers don't have a range of 8 million KM. I have no doubt they would have used phasers to try and shoot it down had it gotten closer.

Correction: they've shown they can hit a computer-guided torp making no evasives and moving on a straight line.

I see you also ignored the Generations bit where the GCS was going to run down the solar torpedo.

Considering they knew tha launching point and probable trajectory in advance, that wouldn't be too difficult.

FYI, Generations shows a GCS has both good range, and can move fast to intercept targets. BOBW shows a GCS can move from Saturn to Mars in 23 minutes without using warp drive.

So what? We've only seen Battlestars at full fighting capacity ONCE, with the Pegasus, and even then they were moving slowly so as to conserve fuel. Considering that the Galactica was able to travel from the neutral staging area to a home planet in a couple hours in the pilot, that suggests they too have a good top speed.