B5's First Ones vs Galactic Empire, ROTJ period

[Typhonis 1]

Evidence for this? I mean have they ever shown what the Vorlons or Shadows would have used against each other shipwise other than the warships seen in the show????

[His Divine Shadow]

Whoops, that's three SPKs per day.

There's nothing that says this rate of production can be kept up though.

And the stuff the First Ones used in B5 were just toys used to mess around with the Younger Races.

But a primordial battlecrab takes hundreds if not thousands of years to grow and mature.

[seanrobertson]

I know any race from B5 would mop the floor with the Feds, but the Empire would lay the imperial smackdown in a big way.

Oh yeah.

And I actually think the Federation could whip most of the
so-called "Young Races." Whether or not they would whip
the Minbari or Interstellar Alliance is up for some discussion,
I think, though I'd give the Federation slightly superior
firepower, protective measures, and probably industry (at
least vs. the Minbari Fed. alone).

[Master of Ossus]

Mr. Robertson is completely correct. The YR don't seem to have a chance against the UFP, but any of the FO's appear to be more than a match for anything in ST. They do, after all, have weapons capable of wiping out complex life on a planet (at the very least).

[Durandal]

So, the Vorlons are capable of all these fantastic feats, yet they couldn't deal with the race from Third Space, which was easily dealt with by employing technology which exists today.

I don't think so. If the Vorlons are any indication, the Empire would slaughter the First Ones.

[Master of Ossus]

So, the Vorlons are capable of all these fantastic feats, yet they couldn't deal with the race from Third Space, which was easily dealt with by employing technology which exists today.

I don't think so. If the Vorlons are any indication, the Empire would slaughter the First Ones.

The Vorlons actually defeated the Third Space aliens long ago.

[Durandal]

OK, the above post has some errors, but for some reason, the Edit button isn't showing up.

Just disregard it.

[His Divine Shadow]

The Vorlons actually defeated the Third Space aliens long ago.

Uh, they closed the gate and hurled it into hyperspace, if they hadn't closed it they'd be dead.

[Shinova]

Besides, the Thirdspace aliens were considered so much older than the Vorlons, capable of traveling to different dimensions, and were stated as having destroyed thousands of races.

Thirdspace>Vorlons>Younger Races

Despite this scale, the distance between the YR and Vorlons is still big, so the Thirdspace aliens bitchslapping the Vorlons around is not something that can be used to gauge the Vorlon race's true strength.

[Connor MacLeod]

Here's some stuff I've seen discussed:

There are many more FOs than the shadows and vorlons, including Kirshiac, the Triad, and Mindriders (I think).

Yes. The Triad, Kirishiac Lords, the Walkers of Sigma 957, the Torvalus Speculators, and the Mindriders. And Lorien.

I've heard that some of the FOs(Mindriders or Triads) can create lots of ships out of pure psychic willpower. Also heard that the Triads already know everything there is to know about the universe.

They can temporarily create constructs that serve as warships or vessels or whatnot. These constructs only last so long as the energy expended to maintain them lasts, and the Triad cannot indefinately sustain them (they get "tired" - there apepars to be an inverse relation to fleet size and operational duration). The analogy used in the book is that the Tri create these "wind up" toys they periodically have to wind up or they won't work.

As for "knowing everything about the universe" - open to interpretation. Is this literal omniscience, or simply that they've been around long enough to investigate things and gain knowledge about them? its not very specific. If I knew a spefici source or quote I could probalby investigate, but I never had much luck getting references sometimes.

Also one of the FOs dragged a planet into hyperspace, intact, then brought it back out again and put it back in its proper orbit.

The Walkers, and it was done to a Kirishiac moon during their war. of course, this involved a "large" Walker fleet of ten or twelve of their larger vessles and an unspecified number of smaller ones. Theoerteically, it should be possible with smaller ships, but was never specifically done to anyone's knowledge.

IE, they can do it, but its difficult to do so and generally impractical except as a neat trick.

And Shadows can build a planetkiller cloud in thirty minutes (That was the figure in the book).

There was no timeframe ever given for Xha'Dam. Alot of the "Evidence" for construction rates is either ambiguous or is based on evidence from Vir's viewpoint (who demonstrated lack of knowledge about WHAT a SPK is, much less what it can do.)

Whoops, that's three SPKs per day.

Againt, I alreay mentioned this. Its too ambiguous an incident to be useful. Of course, its also directly contradicted by the "growht time" for the Shadow patrol cruiser.

And the stuff the First Ones used in B5 were just toys used to mess around with the Younger Races.

True to a certain extent, but mostly an excuse to justify their "Exaggerated" claims when they conflict with established canon. By and large it gets used WAY too often.