Sun Tzu ressurected vs. Thrawn

[Mr Bean]

I would like you to find some evidence that says he did fight a war, if not, conceed

Ahem are these not also your words

innocent until proven guilty

Necron! The Guility would be that he NEVER fought a war and he was a terrible commander

Your contraditing yourself but anyway I have a few great examples to help you understand

For example Num 1. Was Mohhammed a Culinary Genius? Can you honsetly call him an excellent cook or a terrible one when one has no Evidance for EITHER


Or to put it another way example Number 2.
A man walks into a courtroom
Man:Exuse me judge but I'm here to bring charges of Treason and Murder aginst my neighbor
Judge: Do you have any evidance?
Man: None Sir, I've never met the guy
Judge:I see do you know anything about him?
Man:No I found a book he had wrote about the propertys of flowers
Judge: I see so you know nothing about him besides that book yes?
Man: Yep
Judge:And your charging him with Murder and Treason?
Man: Treason and Murder your honor but yes
Judge(If he where Necron):I've heard all I need to, I find him gulity!
Judge(If he where even vaugly sane or logical):Arrest this man for being an idiot!
Balif: We can't do that
Judge:Contempt of Court?
Balif:.... Yeah I think that will fly
Judge: Arrest him!



Have I made my point yet?

[NecronLord]

If there is no evidence of it then you cannot claim that she did, if however there is reference to it then that is evidence.

REPEAT AFTER ME

EVIDENCE EVIDENCE EVIDENCE

by your standards there is a good case for creationism

[NecronLord]

I would like you to find some evidence that says he did fight a war, if not, conceed

Ahem are these not also your words

innocent until proven guilty

Necron! The Guility would be that he NEVER fought a war and he was a terrible commander

Your contraditing yourself but anyway I have a few great examples to help you understand

<snip spurious 'examples'>

Have I made my point yet?

Right.

What we know about Sun Tzu

very little

What we know about what he thinks

quite a lot- from the art of war

Sun Tzu's approach to Maintaining order

Lop off heads.

Never mind that. Let me do one.

Bean and Yosamite;

The guy in the next room is a fantastic boxer and could easily beat the crap out of the World Heavyweight champoion.

Match organiser;

Great, what other bixing matches has he won

B&Y; none that we know about

M; So what has he done?

B&Y; He wrote a book on boxing

M;anything else?

B&Y; No...

[Guardsman Bass]

First off, I would like to say this: I thought Sun Tzu WAS a commander for the King of Wu; it says as such in one of the translations(well actually it says Sun Wu, but the author thought that this general might have been the Sun Tzu) Remember his little trick with the concubines?

Second, his approach to order was NOT to lop off heads. He believed that a political leader must be benevolent and just, whereas a military leader must be expedient and ruthless.

Third to whoever said that Thrawn, unlike Sun Tzu, was not human and therefore was not subject to the "he's only human" axiom, you are being ridiculous. That is like saying" all humans fart in public. My dog is not a human. Therefore, my dog does not fart in public." Thrawn is a brilliant commander, but he is hardly omnipotent, and he lost battles, including the one which ended with the loss of his own life. You have basically taken a great military genius and turned him into a God of War.

[NecronLord]

First off, I would like to say this: I thought Sun Tzu WAS a commander for the King of Wu; it says as such in one of the translations(well actually it says Sun Wu, but the author thought that this general might have been the Sun Tzu) Remember his little trick with the concubines?

Second, his approach to order was NOT to lop off heads. He believed that a political leader must be benevolent and just, whereas a military leader must be expedient and ruthless.

Remember his little trick with the concubines? I seem to remember some of them having their heads lopped off.

Third to whoever said that Thrawn, unlike Sun Tzu, was not human and therefore was not subject to the "he's only human" axiom, you are being ridiculous. That is like saying" all humans fart in public. My dog is not a human. Therefore, my dog does not fart in public." Thrawn is a brilliant commander, but he is hardly omnipotent, and he lost battles, including the one which ended with the loss of his own life. You have basically taken a great military genius and turned him into a God of War.

Humm, IIRC other than deus ex mechanica Thrawns losses are zero.

[The Yosemite Bear]

We know from translations that he was a military leader during a period of great lawlessness and gerneral warfare.

The mere fact that he survived let alone wrote a book on tactics for dummys should attest to the fact that he knew something about what he was talking about, or at least got his hands dirty?

[NecronLord]

Really specific examples?

still by your standards a recruiting officer who survived WWII is therefore a brilliant strategist and tactician?

[HemlockGrey]

Well, a recruiting officer who wrote a book demonstrating great strategic insight, maybe...

[The Yosemite Bear]

and somehow got the title "GENERAL".

I am beginning to think of the "T" word in relation to you Nec.

[Mr Bean]

Necron you still missing the PONT!

MY POSTION IS THAT HE IS AN UNKNOW THERE IS NOT ENOUGH EVIDANCE TO MAKE A RESONABLE GUESS AS TO HOW ANY VS MATCHS WOULD GO

And your demanding evidance that I prove that there's not enough evidance!

Your missing the bloodly point man! The point is its IMPOSSIBLE for the burden of proof to be on me! Your asking me to prove a negative!

A good comparison
Your asking me to Disprove the existance of god as some creationists demand trying to shit the blaim!


THE BURDEN IS ON YOU TO DEMOSTRATE WHAT A TERRIBLE COMANDER HE WAS NOT MYSELF TO PROVE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH EVIDANCE(Unless I was trying to disprove evidance of course but I'm not trying to do that now am I?)

[NecronLord]

Necron you still missing the PONT!

MY POSTION IS THAT HE IS AN UNKNOW THERE IS NOT ENOUGH EVIDANCE TO MAKE A RESONABLE GUESS AS TO HOW ANY VS MATCHS WOULD GO

And your demanding evidance that I prove that there's not enough evidance!

Your missing the bloodly point man! The point is its IMPOSSIBLE for the burden of proof to be on me! Your asking me to prove a negative!

A good comparison
Your asking me to Disprove the existance of god as some creationists demand trying to shit the blaim!


THE BURDEN IS ON YOU TO DEMOSTRATE WHAT A TERRIBLE COMANDER HE WAS NOT MYSELF TO PROVE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH EVIDANCE(Unless I was trying to disprove evidance of course but I'm not trying to do that now am I?)

I am not, My position is the only source for his ideas is "The art of war" If you think that that is a good commander then you really have lost it. If you think he, as a medevil type commander would last long against thrawn, then let's see some evidence otherwise he is a-

Middling
Midevil
Fudel
Warlord

The fact of the matter is that generals of the Time were almost without exception, brutal fudel lords whose idea of an army was peasant conscripts. If you can't see how that makes him terrible in comparison to Thrawn, or Napoleon or Vespasian or various other, better generals...

The default is that he was a brutal fudel lord whose ideas of command came from a general's birthright.

[NecronLord]

and somehow got the title "GENERAL".

I am beginning to think of the "T" word in relation to you Nec.

pray tell, have you a point?

[The Yosemite Bear]

Your entire point

We know that Sun Tzu created the model on which Thrawn was based, Zhan has admitted that. No, you just have to be a <Bleaping> troller and create a strawman based on the fact that was a personality from earth's violent past. STFU

[NecronLord]

Your entire point

We know that Sun Tzu created the model on which Thrawn was based, Zhan has admitted that. No, you just have to be a <Bleaping> troller and create a strawman based on the fact that was a personality from earth's violent past. STFU

And lucas created starwars, therefore he isa jedi master...

In addition, how did he become a general

political power
nobility
money
favor of king
possibly not a threat to the king
possible lack of anyone else
birthright
family history
the list goes on

My "Strawman" is not based on the fact that he is from earths violent past, he is highly unlikely to have gotten the job on ability, and far more likely have gotten it due to influence. IF YOU HAVE A KOT OF EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS EVEN COMPETENT, LET IT STAND FORTH, OR CONCEED!

[NecronLord]

I might also add that you are using the phrase Strawman incorrectly. A strawman is an attack based on a misinterprutation of an opponents position, I used no strawmen.

[Mr Bean]

I am not, My position is the only source for his ideas is "The art of war"

As one who read the afterword of the Common verison of "The Art of War" roughly half the book was produced some seventy years after the first half

Given the medium age of 40 at the time somehow I don't think all of it was Sun Tzu work and agian you don't have much information to back up any claims besides

"Well he was in the past" or similar such BS

The man wrote a book, not all of a book and that is basicly ALL we have of him,


For all we know he was a six foot nine fire-breating super-sayain or a two foot one monkey who learned who to read and write the point is Necron
WE DONT KNOW

Other excellent match-ups we have no idea about

Thrawn VS John Cousin of Jebus

Apu VS Thrawn

Schrödinger’s Cat VS Thrawn


The point is we don't have enough information to make any sort of vauge desicion

[NecronLord]

I am not, My position is the only source for his ideas is "The art of war"

As one who read the afterword of the Common verison of "The Art of War" roughly half the book was produced some seventy years after the first half

Given the medium age of 40 at the time somehow I don't think all of it was Sun Tzu work and agian you don't have much information to back up any claims besides

"Well he was in the past" or similar such BS

The man wrote a book, not all of a book and that is basicly ALL we have of him,

He may not have existed at all, he may be a fictional personality, the book is the scource of reference for him.

For all we know he was a six foot nine fire-breating super-sayain or a two foot one monkey who learned who to read and write the point is Necron
WE DONT KNOW

Other excellent match-ups we have no idea about

Thrawn VS John Cousin of Jebus

Apu VS Thrawn

Schrödinger&#8217;s Cat VS Thrawn

That I would pay money to see.

The point is we don't have enough information to make any sort of vauge desicion

Going by the book, aka the only scource of reference we have on him
{Concession accepted BTW} he still would loose to Thrawn.

[Mr Bean]

He may not have existed at all, he may be a fictional personality, the book is the scource of reference for him.

Watch the Contradiction Fokes!

Going by the book, aka the only scource of reference we have on him
{Concession accepted BTW} he still would loose to Thrawn.

I say this rarley but it might be all that can break through to Necron
THERE WAS NO CONCESSION THATS MY POSITION! *Explitives delete, Yep all 26 Pages of them


During this debate you have done everything possible to shift the burden of proof to my side(Wrongly) agian and agian you get a little confused look on your face when I say one can't do it because there is not enough information

Just like you can't vaugly say how a Sun Tzu VS Vadar VS the Care-Bears fight would go because you have no freken information about Sun Tzu, It is lost we know NOTHING about the man and the book itself was in large part NOT written by the same person who started writing it.

Your position is we can judge him by a single book not entirly written by him none of which containt a single shread of information about the man?


Be wary Necron for you seem dangrouly close to slipping to the idiot side

[NecronLord]

Going by the book, aka the only scource of reference we have on him
{Concession accepted BTW} he still would loose to Thrawn.

I say this rarley but it might be all that can break through to Necron
THERE WAS NO CONCESSION THATS MY POSITION! *Explitives delete, Yep all 26 Pages of them


During this debate you have done everything possible to shift the burden of proof to my side(Wrongly) agian and agian you get a little confused look on your face when I say one can't do it because there is not enough information

Just like you can't vaugly say how a Sun Tzu VS Vadar VS the Care-Bears fight would go because you have no freken information about Sun Tzu, It is lost we know NOTHING about the man and the book itself was in large part NOT written by the same person who started writing it.

Your position is we can judge him by a single book not entirly written by him none of which containt a single shread of information about the man?


Be wary Necron for you seem dangrouly close to slipping to the idiot side

hardly, read the thread. My assertion is that what we know is this

1- Thrawn is an extremely competent commander
2- Sun Tzu is not known to be an extremely competent commander
3- therefore for Sun Tzu to win, you must prove that he is an extremely competent commander

the burden of proof is on your side due to the fact that you clearly think that Sun Tzu is an extremely competent commander.

Due to lack of evidence for Sun Tzu being an extremely competent commander; Thrawn wins be default.

[Mr Bean]

the burden of proof is on your side due to the fact that you clearly think that Sun Tzu is an extremely competent commander.

Ok.... That just fucking gets me right there

Let me say it for you in ten foot letters because its so fucking obvious you don't get it
MY POSTION IS THERE IS NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION(READ: NONE) TO MAKE AN HONSET DECSISON EITHER WAY
OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGIAN I REPEAT THAT

And yet you STILL don't get it

I take that back earierler, you are not in danger of being on the idiot side you are THERE

I augue due to the complete lack of inforation about Sun Tzu that this debate can not be held and remain intelectualy honset

And you just cant seem to grasp that Necron, Three pages now I repeat myself and you STILL DON'T GET IT

....Prehaps you can pull-yourself into thinking strait agian but I don't hold out much hope

[NecronLord]

the burden of proof is on your side due to the fact that you clearly think that Sun Tzu is an extremely competent commander.

Ok.... That just fucking gets me right there

Let me say it for you in ten foot letters because its so fucking obvious you don't get it
MY POSTION IS THERE IS NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION(READ: NONE) TO MAKE AN HONSET DECSISON EITHER WAY
OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGIAN I REPEAT THAT

And yet you STILL don't get it

I take that back earierler, you are not in danger of being on the idiot side you are THERE

I augue due to the complete lack of inforation about Sun Tzu that this debate can not be held and remain intelectualy honset

And you just cant seem to grasp that Necron, Three pages now I repeat myself and you STILL DON'T GET IT

....Prehaps you can pull-yourself into thinking strait agian but I don't hold out much hope

Then the debate is defunct, and we may as well quit it. I never said that this was intellectually honest.

[Mr Bean]

Then the debate is defunct, and we may as well quit it. I never said that this was intellectually honest.

The fact is for three pages you though I was debating somthing else despite the fact I restated my position over six times and you still did not get it

I don't care about the debate, I'm more worried about the logic errors you where commiting that where HENISLY obvious

[NecronLord]

Then the debate is defunct, and we may as well quit it. I never said that this was intellectually honest.

The fact is for three pages you though I was debating somthing else despite the fact I restated my position over six times and you still did not get it

I don't care about the debate, I'm more worried about the logic errors you where commiting that where HENISLY obvious

I will leave that for another time, you were not actually against me regarding the lack of knowlage of Sun Tzu. It was three pages of misinterprutation

[Mr Bean]

you were not actually against me regarding the lack of knowlage of Sun Tzu. It was three pages of misinterprutation

No I was aginst you as you position was illogeal and not well thought out

You based your premise on Vacume and seem to have no clue that you had

[The Yosemite Bear]

Someone Lock this down, please

This is as bad as the Ender vs. being all kriffed up by that guy who dragged it off into a comparison between Ender and Nazi's