LotR vs. WoT

[haas mark]

Also, we must forget about the Oath rods, and why has no one mentioned Myrddraal or Trollocs yet? I mean, there IS a Dark side to WoT. And what about light magic in LotR?

[Ghost Rider]

The Trolloc is deadly enough but let's say the Gollem(I can never remember how to spells those bastards)...think nastier magical T-1000's without any real weakness short of some minor items which are super rare.The Myddralls are outlandish given their resilence...etc.

I would go into more detail but I only really read and have yet to devote much study to them, but seriously their regular forces are outlandish let alone the Weilders of Power.

I mean also given that the Forces of Shaitan are seriously powered up you have beings who don't just suck energy from the pool of Saidan or Saidar but directly from the source...and these guys make the 13 Chosen quiver...then you have all sorts of other little things, that either side can use(T'erangreal is quite useful given that it doesn't really need a weilder of saider/saidan to use...etc)

[haas mark]

The Trolloc is deadly enough but let's say the Gollem(I can never remember how to spells those bastards)...think nastier magical T-1000's without any real weakness short of some minor items which are super rare.The Myddralls are outlandish given their resilence...etc.

I would go into more detail but I only really read and have yet to devote much study to them, but seriously their regular forces are outlandish let alone the Weilders of Power.

I mean also given that the Forces of Shaitan are seriously powered up you have beings who don't just suck energy from the pool of Saidan or Saidar but directly from the source...and these guys make the 13 Chosen quiver...then you have all sorts of other little things, that either side can use(T'erangreal is quite useful given that it doesn't really need a weilder of saider/saidan to use...etc)

T-1000? Huh?

And ter'arngreal may not always need the use of a wielder of saidin/saidar, but angreal and sa'angreal do, and you have to watch out for those that have connections to sa'angreal.

Anyways, Trollocs are really bad. And Myrddraal refuse to die, plus they scathe the swords with their blood. Which I always found interesting. I think WoT wins on all three instances.

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah and the Gollem is sorta in the right direction but since someone is borrowing my 8th book I cannot confirm it's name...they mentioned the creature in the Eighth book...and honestly it seeks it's prey by both magical and normal means, can slim itself to go through any wall or barrier, is nigh immune to magic and weapons, and requires a specific Terangreal to hurt it...and it still can kill you even if you weild it, since it becomes a more of an attrition battle(Mat won because....he's Mat)

Honestly was truly a nightmare level type of beatie.

[haas mark]

Yeah and the Gollem is sorta in the right direction but since someone is borrowing my 8th book I cannot confirm it's name...they mentioned the creature in the Eighth book...and honestly it seeks it's prey by both magical and normal means, can slim itself to go through any wall or barrier, is nigh immune to magic and weapons, and requires a specific Terangreal to hurt it...and it still can kill you even if you weild it, since it becomes a more of an attrition battle(Mat won because....he's Mat)

Honestly was truly a nightmare level type of beatie.

oooh...nice. Now what about that T-1000? What were you talking about?

And I haven't gotten past FoH yet.

mew.

Yes, I am evil.

[Ghost Rider]

That's from Terminator 2...hard to explain since it's death was to go looky people can triumph(honest), but think of something that can take immense damage, reconfigure itself on many level and aalmost all damage to it really does nothing since it has some truly awesome level of self healing.

The Gollem is worse...and is intelligent.

Honestly Mydrrall fear these things.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

You might wana exclude Illuvatar from the LotR side, since he is God.

Umm....okay, then........but I have no idea who that is...I haven't made it past the first book yet, and I haven't finished it, and I dun remember it, so I have to start all over agian.

mew.

Yes, I am evil.

Iluvatar (IIRC) appears as a character only in the Silmarillion, but not in the LotR at all. Of course, if we add the Vainu and the Maia, WoT is most likely screwed, since they're basically Greek deities. The Vainu taught the Maia, and the Maia taught the Istari, who are the wizards of Middle-Earth.

*cough* The Istari ARE Maia.

[haas mark]

That's from Terminator 2...hard to explain since it's death was to go looky people can triumph(honest), but think of something that can take immense damage, reconfigure itself on many level and aalmost all damage to it really does nothing since it has some truly awesome level of self healing.

The Gollem is worse...and is intelligent.

Honestly Mydrrall fear these things.

I don't remember saying it was worse than anything......

Anyways, we forgot the Draghkar! My favorite! Not to mention those big doggy things! (Dun remember what they're called), as well as everything that lurks in Shadar Logoth.

mew.

Yes, I am evil.

[Stormbringer]

That's from Terminator 2...hard to explain since it's death was to go looky people can triumph(honest), but think of something that can take immense damage, reconfigure itself on many level and aalmost all damage to it really does nothing since it has some truly awesome level of self healing.

The Gollem is worse...and is intelligent.

Honestly Mydrrall fear these things.

I don't remember saying it was worse than anything......

Anyways, we forgot the Draghkar! My favorite! Not to mention those big doggy things! (Dun remember what they're called), as well as everything that lurks in Shadar Logoth.

Felhounds.

And let's just say that at the point of Winter's Heart thanks to the S.L.U.R.P., there aren't likely to be too many worries about Shadar Logotth critters.

[haas mark]

That's from Terminator 2...hard to explain since it's death was to go looky people can triumph(honest), but think of something that can take immense damage, reconfigure itself on many level and aalmost all damage to it really does nothing since it has some truly awesome level of self healing.

The Gollem is worse...and is intelligent.

Honestly Mydrrall fear these things.

I don't remember saying it was worse than anything......

Anyways, we forgot the Draghkar! My favorite! Not to mention those big doggy things! (Dun remember what they're called), as well as everything that lurks in Shadar Logoth.

Felhounds.

And let's just say that at the point of Winter's Heart thanks to the S.L.U.R.P., there aren't likely to be too many worries about Shadar Logotth critters.

Aww, no Padan Fain? Damn. And what is SLURP?

mew.

Yes, I am evil.

[Ghost Rider]

well worse in comparison to the T-1000 persay...but since that analogy has no meaning it should be striken

And yeah...oi...Winter's Heart...damn...I wonder how this story will end....really

[D.Turtle]

Wheel of Time massacres ANYTHING that Middle Earth can throw at them.

1. We have the Gholam (that's how it is called):
It is immune to magic. It can squeeze through any opening large enough that water can get through. It can't be hurt by weapons. The only thing that hurt it so far was Mat using his Talisman (which makes him immune to magic too).

2. We have the Choedan Kal, the strongest Sa'angreals ever made. Using the two (one for men, one for women), they could have easily laid waste to entire continents or destroy the whole world. Anything in Middle Earth that strong?

3. We have the Ashaman and Damane. They can destroy any army that isn't using magic (cast a shield around them, and start blowing army to bits. About 200 Ashaman (many of them only slightly trained) massacred an army of 50,000 Ariel (parctically the uber-warriors of WoT) and several hundred Aiel wise women (they however aren't that adept with magic).

4. We have the Seanchan Empire. It consists of an entire continent under one control. They had rebellions with millions being put into slavery... That is serious Man power there. Not to mention they have quite a big Navy (Thousands of ships, big ships).

5. We have the Aiel. One Aiel warrior (or warrioress) is equal to about 3-4 normal soldiers at LEAST. Almost every mmber of their society can wield arms a lot better than the average soldier.

6. We have the bad guys. Trollocs(practically what the orcs are to Middle Earth: the mainstream soldiers), Myrdraal (Strike fear into enemies, can freeze them in their tracks, are the commanders, one cut with their weapon is usually deadly; think Mordor blade), Draghkar (Flying creatures, suck the soul out of their enemies, sing a cry that paralyzes enemies), we have the "worms" (they are practically big worms, can easily kill several Myrdraal, they have another name to, because they once could transform, like a caterpillar to a butterfly, to serious flying guys that were even stronger..), and we have Dreadlords(The spellcasters of the bad guys).

7. We have the Chosen , errmm, I mean Forsaken. They are the only surviving people from the Age of Legends (when there were Plane-type things and helicopter-like things, and so on). They were the uber-casters of the bad guys during the Age of Legends.

8. We have the Black Wind. Momentarily caught within the Ways, but can escape if a Waygate is left open. It is practically a large wind which consumes all enemies.

9. We have the Aes Sedai. They are the women casters. Momentarily they can't use their magics as a weapon unless threatened, but that is (hopefully) going to be rectified soon.

10. We have the Borderlanders, who have an army probably larger than 500k people (They have around 300k marching down to Rand, but they also left a lot back by the Borderlands).

Even at its strongest, Middle Earth can't keep up with this(except maybe Illuvator)

Now if we take the Age of Legends, they can defeat even Illuvator (They CREATED the Choedan Kal and all the Sa'angreal and Angreal. So they can wield practically unlimited power.

[HemlockGrey]

...and that the Aiel are really bad ass.

The Aiel are not really badass. They are sucky soldiers, with a sucky army, and it never ceases to amaze me that they managed to hand the Grand Alliance it's ass on a platter.

You don't fight a war of magic using butterfly illusions, you do it by smashing bodies to little bits.

Tell that to the Black Company.

...think nastier magical T-1000's without any real weakness short of some minor items which are super rare.

'Silver' is not super rare.

2. We have the Choedan Kal, the strongest Sa'angreals ever made. Using the two (one for men, one for women), they could have easily laid waste to entire continents or destroy the whole world. Anything in Middle Earth that strong?

Except, not only did no one have them for a long, long time, they are also now melted piles of goop.

5. We have the Aiel. One Aiel warrior (or warrioress) is equal to about 3-4 normal soldiers at LEAST. Almost every mmber of their society can wield arms a lot better than the average soldier.

Give me a Roman legion, and I will hand you the heads of 5,000 Aiel. Give me a castle with 1,000 defenders, I will hand you twice that many.

Now if we take the Age of Legends, they can defeat even Illuvator (They CREATED the Choedan Kal and all the Sa'angreal and Angreal. So they can wield practically unlimited power.

No, they cannot. Balefire, their most powerful weapon, cannot touch Illuvator. He is like Cthulu in that aspect - he cannot die. Ever.

[Ghost Rider]

Why Balefire it...seriously if they could lock the a being of equal power, nothing is saying they cannot do the same and thank you for someone spelling it right(damn Gholam)

And seriously Cyril, you've shown your opinions but nothing saying towards Tolkien, except critique WoT

[HemlockGrey]

Because WoT deserves to be critiqued, and not just because it is an average series at best.

It is unfathomably irritating to see the Aiel cliche in fantasy - i.e. the noble, rugged, invincible warriors. No combined arms, no tactics, strategy, logistics, etc.

I mean, a Song of Ice and Fire had the Dothraki, and the Unsullied, but at least it is acknowledged that they would fail in a conquest of the Westlands whenever they came upon a castle or holdfast. But these Aiel, despite being quite possible the worst military force ever, somehow managed to lay siege to a massive fortress-city...and win!

How the hell did they pull that off? No seige equipment, no reserves, no pickets, fortifications, supply lines...

[The Dark]

Iluvatar (IIRC) appears as a character only in the Silmarillion, but not in the LotR at all. Of course, if we add the Vainu and the Maia, WoT is most likely screwed, since they're basically Greek deities. The Vainu taught the Maia, and the Maia taught the Istari, who are the wizards of Middle-Earth.

*cough* The Istari ARE Maia.

Whoops...my bad. Let me rephrase that: the Istari are Maiar in human form (Maia is singular, Maiar plural, if I'm reading my sources correctly). They are not allowed to display their powers in the Third Age, since the mortals of Middle-Earth are supposed to be finding their own power (with guidance from the Istari). However, Olorin (Gandalf the White) is immune to weapons.

Additional information I have found:

The Balrogs (there are more than one) are Maiar of Fire, and are potentially more powerful than the Istari because they are not limited by their human forms. If the Istari were to shed their forms and become pure Maia again, they would be more powerful. Tom Bombadil may also be a Maia.

Additional magic users in the Lord of the Rings include Elrond (both with and without the Elven Ring), Galadriel (both with and without the Elven Ring), and possibly Denethor.

Also, if we go back to the First Age, the Girdle of Melian would pose some potential problems for enemies. It was a "maze of shadow and bewilderment" which was only penetrated twice during the entire First Age, and one time was because of the power of the Silmaril.

[Ghost Rider]

I give you the Aiel are damn ridiculous...no problem there..but against The weilders of the one power...the Aiel are basically overrated fremen against a SD.

[haas mark]

Because WoT deserves to be critiqued, and not just because it is an average series at best.

And the LotR shouldn't be critiqued? Besides, if they can lock up Sahi'tan (who was basically all-pwerful) what could stop them form locking up Illuvator?

And the Aiel were not all that great, but they are quick-moving and straight to the kill.

And then we have the damane and the Asha'man. Oh, boy.

And the Sea Folk, combined with the Seanchan, would be a very powerful Navy, indeed.

The Aes Sedai (esp. with Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne...the most powerful ever) can also Heal the wounded, so while half of them are battling, the other half is Healing, continually replenishing the battle forces.

And then we have the Dark One's forces, with the Gholam, the Myrddraal (which refuse to die),the Trollocs, the Felhounds, and the Draghkar.

We also have the Children of the Light.

THe Chosen/FOrsaken.

THe Dark One himself.

I think WoT wins by MASSIVE amounts. With or without the ter'angreal/angreeal/sa'angreal.

[haas mark]

Not to mention the Dreamwalkers, who can basically drive people insane by going into their dreams and just totally screwing with their heads. The Wise Ones of the Aiel and particular Aes Sedai could do that. Not to mention al the Novices and Accepteds, who would be a bit les talented, but just as well.

And there are more from the Age of Legends which everybody seems to ferget, such as Artur Hawkwing and Birgitte.

And the Black Wind.

And althought the Ogier generally are peace-loving, they will be not-nice when necessary.

[HemlockGrey]

And the LotR shouldn't be critiqued? Besides, if they can lock up Sahi'tan (who was basically all-pwerful) what could stop them form locking up Illuvator?

Because the Dark One is not all-powerful. If he were, he couldn't be locked up in the first place. lluvator IS all-powerful. He cannot be defeated, at all, ever, because he is omnipotent. If the channelers tried to seal him, he would do the heavenly equivalent of waving his hand and they would all vanish. Given that the Dark One is NOT all-powerful, Illuvator could easily defeat him.

Illuvator is God. Nothing can possibly defeat him.

And the Aiel were not all that great, but they are quick-moving and straight to the kill.

Which does not change the fact that they would be slaughtered like cattle in their first engagement with Gondorian or Rohirrm forces. They may be able to defeat under-staffed, under-supplied calvarific armies commanded by shitty generals, but they will have their asses handed to them by a proper army.

And then we have the damane and the Asha'man. Oh, boy

Yes; they are essentially death incarnate. But they can be killed by sheer weight of numbers, and there are millions of orcs, Uruk-Hai, and trolls. And how would they fare against Balrogs?

And the Sea Folk, combined with the Seanchan, would be a very powerful Navy, indeed.

Which is inconsequential, as Middle Earth is not rife with lakes and rivers like WoT is.

The Aes Sedai (esp. with Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne...the most powerful ever) can also Heal the wounded, so while half of them are battling, the other half is Healing, continually replenishing the battle forces.

Except that Aes Sedai can only kill when they or their Warders are in danger, or when they are facing Shadowspawn. The forces of Sauron are not Shadowspawn, so the only time they could be fighting is when they or their Warders are directly in danger. The Warders, though powerful, would likely die very quickly, leaving the Aes Sedai as mere medics, and there is no way a few thousand Aes Sedai and Kin can heal all the wounded before they exhaust themselves.

And then we have the Dark One's forces, with the Gholam, the Myrddraal (which refuse to die),the Trollocs, the Felhounds, and the Draghkar.

The Gholam can be injured by silver, and if worst comes to worst, Sauron, who is, by the way, a demigod, can destroy him. Actually, any of the magic-weilders could; he is immune to saidin and saidar, but not to Middle Earth magic.

Trollocs would be butchered by Uruk-Hai. The Myrddraal don't die until the sunrise, but once 'killed' they are out of action anyway. The Draghkar are mere assassins, and useless against the elves + Istari.

We also have the Children of the Light.

Are you joking? The Children of the Light would be utterly massacred by any LotR force! They are nothing more than light calvary. The Rohirrm alone could wipe them out.

THe Chosen/Forsaken.

You forget the seductive powers of the One Ring. Sauron could easily entice them over to his side.

THe Dark One himself.

I was going to say 'if you include the Dark One, we include Illuvator." but decided not to once I realized that Sauron was a match for him.

I think WoT wins by MASSIVE amounts. With or without the ter'angreal/angreeal/sa'angreal.

Without the Choedan Kal, it's too close to call.

Not to mention the Dreamwalkers, who can basically drive people insane by going into their dreams and just totally screwing with their heads. The Wise Ones of the Aiel and particular Aes Sedai could do that. Not to mention al the Novices and Accepteds, who would be a bit les talented, but just as well.

And who would they drive insane? The elves? Not likely. The Istari would swat them like flies.

And there are more from the Age of Legends which everybody seems to ferget, such as Artur Hawkwing and Birgitte.

If you include the Age of Legends, we include the First Age, and then WoT is fucked seventy different ways from Sunday. More balrogs, massive dragons, the Valar, including Morgoth, who could probaby destroy the Dark One...

And the Black Wind.

Which cannot escape the Ways.

And althought the Ogier generally are peace-loving, they will be not-nice when necessary.

They may be good individual fighters, but they will be massacred by any appropriate army - say, the dwarves. Or, if I wanted to be nasty, Ents.

[haas mark]

And the LotR shouldn't be critiqued? Besides, if they can lock up Sahi'tan (who was basically all-pwerful) what could stop them form locking up Illuvator?

Because the Dark One is not all-powerful. If he were, he couldn't be locked up in the first place. lluvator IS all-powerful. He cannot be defeated, at all, ever, because he is omnipotent. If the channelers tried to seal him, he would do the heavenly equivalent of waving his hand and they would all vanish. Given that the Dark One is NOT all-powerful, Illuvator could easily defeat him.

Illuvator is God. Nothing can possibly defeat him.

Okay, you got me there.

And the Aiel were not all that great, but they are quick-moving and straight to the kill.

Which does not change the fact that they would be slaughtered like cattle in their first engagement with Gondorian or Rohirrm forces. They may be able to defeat under-staffed, under-supplied calvarific armies commanded by shitty generals, but they will have their asses handed to them by a proper army.

Oh?

And then we have the damane and the Asha'man. Oh, boy

Yes; they are essentially death incarnate. But they can be killed by sheer weight of numbers, and there are millions of orcs, Uruk-Hai, and trolls. And how would they fare against Balrogs?

Balefire, Walls of Wind, floods, engulfing flames, you know, that sort of thing. Besides, they can trap them in a sphere of air and cut off their supply of air, thus suffocating them to death.

And the Sea Folk, combined with the Seanchan, would be a very powerful Navy, indeed.

Which is inconsequential, as Middle Earth is not rife with lakes and rivers like WoT is.

They were ocean-faring peoples

The Aes Sedai (esp. with Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne...the most powerful ever) can also Heal the wounded, so while half of them are battling, the other half is Healing, continually replenishing the battle forces.

Except that Aes Sedai can only kill when they or their Warders are in danger, or when they are facing Shadowspawn. The forces of Sauron are not Shadowspawn, so the only time they could be fighting is when they or their Warders are directly in danger. The Warders, though powerful, would likely die very quickly, leaving the Aes Sedai as mere medics, and there is no way a few thousand Aes Sedai and Kin can heal all the wounded before they exhaust themselves.

I wrote earlier that we were ignoring the Oaths.

And then we have the Dark One's forces, with the Gholam, the Myrddraal (which refuse to die),the Trollocs, the Felhounds, and the Draghkar.

The Gholam can be injured by silver, and if worst comes to worst, Sauron, who is, by the way, a demigod, can destroy him. Actually, any of the magic-weilders could; he is immune to saidin and saidar, but not to Middle Earth magic.

Maybe. I have not read that far into either series yet.

Trollocs would be butchered by Uruk-Hai. The Myrddraal don't die until the sunrise, but once 'killed' they are out of action anyway. The Draghkar are mere assassins, and useless against the elves + Istari.

Myrddraal are alive in the sunrise. They die whenever they feel like dying...which is a long time after the body has been killed. And the Draghkar may be mere assassins, but that does not make them useless. Besides, the Myrddraal could strike fear into the hearts of just about any living thing, and the Draghkar lure the prey in with a 'song.' They are not useless.

We also have the Children of the Light.

Are you joking? The Children of the Light would be utterly massacred by any LotR force! They are nothing more than light calvary. The Rohirrm alone could wipe them out.

They are also one of the greatest miltal forces in WoT.

The Chosen/Forsaken.

You forget the seductive powers of the One Ring. Sauron could easily entice them over to his side.

Maybe. But what if we were to ignore the One Ring, just as we ignore the Oaths of the Aes Sedai?

The Dark One himself.

I was going to say 'if you include the Dark One, we include Illuvator." but decided not to once I realized that Sauron was a match for him.

How so? As stated before, I have no tread afr enough into either series.

I think WoT wins by MASSIVE amounts. With or without the ter'angreal/angreeal/sa'angreal.

Without the Choedan Kal, it's too close to call.

The what?

And who would they drive insane? The elves? Not likely. The Istari would swat them like flies.

How? They are IN THE DREAMS. It's nearly impossible to keep them out of the Dreams. The Wise Ones and the Aes Sedai and Warders are able to do it, but are the characters form LotR?

If you include the Age of Legends, we include the First Age, and then WoT is fucked seventy different ways from Sunday. More balrogs, massive dragons, the Valar, including Morgoth, who could probaby destroy the Dark One...

If you read above, I changed the senarios to include the First Age form BOTH series. Try reading through the enitre context sometime.

Which cannot escape the Ways.

Unless a Waygate is left open. Let's assume one was.

They may be good individual fighters, but they will be massacred by any appropriate army - say, the dwarves. Or, if I wanted to be nasty, Ents.

Maybe, but there's no real way to tell. And what are Ents?

[HemlockGrey]

Oh?

Yes. The Aiel is not a good military force. Any army with any cohesion, articulations, and some good picket lines will be able to outflank them, or dig in fortification and outfight them.

Balefire, Walls of Wind, floods, engulfing flames, you know, that sort of thing. Besides, they can trap them in a sphere of air and cut off their supply of air, thus suffocating them to death.

I don't think Balrogs need to breathe; besides, not everyone in the WoT knows balefire, and it is not difficult to dodge.

They were ocean-faring peoples

But most of the fighting would take place inland, where a navy is useless.

I wrote earlier that we were ignoring the Oaths.

Then let us also ignore the limits that prevent the Istari from using their full powers on Middle Earth.

Bang. No more channelers.

Myrddraal are alive in the sunrise. They die whenever they feel like dying...which is a long time after the body has been killed. And the Draghkar may be mere assassins, but that does not make them useless. Besides, the Myrddraal could strike fear into the hearts of just about any living thing, and the Draghkar lure the prey in with a 'song.' They are not useless.

No; it is specifically stated that Myrddraal will finally die when the sun rises, and Gondorians are used to fighting things as nasty or nastier than Myrddraal. The Draghkar are useless - they cannot seduce the Istari, the elves, Sauron, etc.

They are also one of the greatest miltal forces in WoT.

I assume you meant 'militia' because as a military they are a joke. They are entirely light calvarly, for God's sake!

Maybe. But what if we were to ignore the One Ring, just as we ignore the Oaths of the Aes Sedai?

Bullshit. Ignoring the Oaths gives more power to the WoT side. Ignoring the Ring limits the LotR side. All or nothing.

How so? As stated before, I have no tread afr enough into either series.

The Dark One is, according to the later series, more than likely just an extremely powerful channeler from a few hundred ages ago. Even if he's not, he obviously cannot do anything, and what we have seen him do is nothing that Sauron cannot.

How? They are IN THE DREAMS. It's nearly impossible to keep them out of the Dreams. The Wise Ones and the Aes Sedai and Warders are able to do it, but are the characters form LotR?

Elves don't dream. Istari are demigods. Sauron can easily enter anyone' dreams.

Unless a Waygate is left open. Let's assume one was.

They often are. The Wind never comes through.

Maybe, but there's no real way to tell. And what are Ents?

Um, yes, there is. An Ogier force would be nothing more than a ragtag militia, given that the steddings have no organized military. The Dwarven nations have vast standing armies.

Ents are gigantic tree-people. They kick unholy amounts of ass.

[D.Turtle]

Man, both sides seriously need to get better info ...

First of all:

The Gholam: A Gholam can not be hurt by mere silver. The only thing that hurt one so far in their entire existance (from the AoL onward) was an amulet that so far only the Gholam have (giving them complete magical immunity). And only one of these is known to exist that is not in the possession of a Gholam. They were the greatest and most feared weapon in the AoL, because nothing could hurt them. They were feared more than the Choedan Kal! And your idiotic suggestion that a Gholam is only immune to Saidar and Saidin, but not ME magic is similar to idiotic suggestions that SW ships can not survive in ST, because of something (ie. It is part of the premise of a debate that certain things count for both sides...)

The Children of the Light: They are a tiny useless army (only several tens of thousands at the most, at their strongest).

The Aiel are a warrior society. Almost all of the other countries (except for the Borderlands) had to ally in order to defeat an army of the Aiel (During the first Aiel War).
Now Cyril: About your "qualified" assumption that the Aiel are "sucky soldiers": Even Mat Cauthon, the best general in all of WoT (with the experience of hundres of years of war) has at least half again as many casualties as the Aiel do whenever they fought. Show me how a roman Legion could kill 5000 Aiel.
About the Aiel having no strategy: Did you read the books?! They usually divide their forces into several parts(4 I think, but I don't remember exactly) of which all but one (I think 3) attack the enemy from different directions, while the last (the fourth) waits in reserve in order to exploit any weakness in the enemies front.
The Aiel did not lay siege to the Stone of Tear. They secretly infiltrated Tear (and were there several days without being noticed) and launched a secret attack upon the Stone (They climbed up the side of the Stone in order to get inside it). They did not use the typical way of invasion and conquest (which was what the Stone was built to defend against), instead, they attacked it in such a way, that they were only detected once they were already inside the Stone.
The Aiel are many times mentioned at being able to hide in places, that everyone else thought was impossible to hide in, and remain UNDETECTED!
Aiel can move faster over relatively long distance than Cavalry.

The Choedan Kal: The Choedan Kal were not destroyed during the Cleansing of Saidin. The Access Key (A Ter'angreal that allows access to the Choedan Kal from everywhere) for the women's half of the Choedan Kal was melted. The male Access Key is still quite operational. Using the Choedan Kal, the whole world yould easily be destroyed. Continents can be destroyed within moments using the Choedan Kal.

Balefire almost destroyed the whole Pattern! The massive use of balefire during the beginning of the War of the Shadow almost destroyed the whole Universe!

Another advantage WoT has over ME is the use of Gateways to instantly move any forces to anywhere.

Verilon: Artur Hawkwing is NOT from the AoL. Birgitte is NOT from the AoL.

Another advantage WoT has over ME is the Horn of Valere: It can call the Heroes of ALL past ages (a bit more than a hundre) who are immune to any physical or magical attacks. They can only be defeated in Tel'aran'rhiod.

Cyril: You forget that a sufficiently large number of Ashaman can NOT be defeated by ordinary forces ie. forces without magic users. They can simply cast a large shield around them, which stops any and all attempts to get through. Have you read "The Path of Daggers"?! A large part of that book is about how a few dozen Ashaman could massacre an army of tens of thousands. They were only stopped by the massive use of Damane, and through the disruptance in Saidin and Saidar (in that area) caused by the overuse of the Bowl of the Winds, which caused Rands use of mass-lightning to fail.

Another thing: Using the Bowl of the winds, the weather can be changed on a whole continent... Local changes in weather (ie causing Rain in the Waste) are possible without further help from ter'angreal.

About the Three Oaths: Did you read the books?! A large subplot is the whole finding out about the effects of the Three Oaths (shortening of ones lifetime for example), and the struggle of Egwene to undo this idocy. She has only recently turned back against the full renounciation of the Oaths, becuase of a Forsaken's personal attention. (Though that will soon be changed, once Beldeine goes to the Rebels and uncovers Aran'gar.

Trollocs are a lot bigger than any orcs or Uruk-hai (not to mention Myrdraal...). Some Myrdraal have the ability to "teleport" from shadow to shadow (over large distances).

Sauron is NOT a match for Shai'tan. Can Sauron change the weather of an entire world?

The Black Wind CAN escape the Ways. It almost did so once!

Ents can be destroyed with mere fire. I would like to see an Ashaman destroy all those nice Ents single-handedly (fireball the Ents. If the yget to close, Travel to the next hill. Rinse and repeat.) Using such Hit-and-run tactics, any army of ME can be defeated easily.

One more thing: It is definitely NOT easy to dodge balefire, as so far no one has dodged balefire. Whole cities were destroyed with Balefire during the War of the Shadow. Balefire can be used effetively against larrge armies. And I don't think armies can effectively doge balefire (remember, that the farther away you are, the faster the beam will move if the caster of Balefire turns a bit.)

Then let us also ignore the limits that prevent the Istari from using their full powers on Middle Earth.

Bang. No more channelers.

?!?!?!
Some support for this statement?

How do you know that Draghkar can not seduce elves or the like? So far we have not met anything that can resist a Draghkar. (Not even Aes Sedai) I do admit though, that they are not very useful against armies, however they can assassinate important people.

Also, WoT has the Gray Men (and Women). They are practically invisible. And almost undetectable (Even Al'Lan Mandragoran did not detect them)

Oger are some of the fiercest warriors ever known. They can hold of masses of Orcs and even Myrdraal are no match against them. Remember: The Ogier Gardeners are a part of the Elite Deathwing guards.

[D.Turtle]

http://www.linuxmafia.com/jordan/

A lot of useful info about all the happenings in WoT.

[haas mark]

Ents are gigantic tree-people. They kick unholy amounts of ass.

We also have the likes of the Green Man in WoT. I am sure that, if need be, creatures such as he would fight awesomely well.

D. Turtle: Thanks for the info! And I dun mind the spoilers....although, I DO still have 5.5 more books to get through...

Also, there is at least one ter'angreal that supports the use of balefire. It was either in the third or fourth book that Nynaeve discovered this in Falme (or was it Seanchan? I haven't read in a while).

About AH and Birgitte: my mistake.

About the 3 Oaths: I haven't read that far into them yet.

ABout the Black Wind: IIRC, it was in the Fourth Book, when Perrin and Loial and Faile exited the Ways in Manetheren (the Two Rivers), in the Mountains of Mist above his home that the Black Wind almost escaped.

About avoiding balefire...balefire is much like a flamethrower.

About inland vs ocean. Who says there won't be fighting along coasts? Besides, IIRC, the Senachan are great for fighting onland or off.

What about Shara?