Clone troopers replace marines in Aliens

[Guest]

I heard somewhere that the Aliens skin was pure Alkaline thus rendering the blood harmless to the Alien. I might be wrong, but i know i definately read the the Aliens skin was toxic to humans otherwise the Marines could harvest the aliens skins and use them as armour

[Kuja]

Would the clones have suprerior scanning ability to locate aliens before fighting them?

[Alyeska]

Would the clones have suprerior scanning ability to locate aliens before fighting them?

Unknown IMO. We know that Alien's don't show up on thermal imaging. It was only the movement sensors (that could see through walls no less) that allowed the Marines to detect them at range.

[Kuja]

But would the clones have superior motin detectors? (IE: more sensitive, longer range)

[Alyeska]

But would the clones have superior motin detectors? (IE: more sensitive, longer range)

IIRC their is no sensor technology in SW that is man portable that lets you see targets through walls at a distance of up to 50 meters.

[Darth Wong]

I heard somewhere that the Aliens skin was pure Alkaline thus rendering the blood harmless to the Alien. I might be wrong, but i know i definately read the the Aliens skin was toxic to humans otherwise the Marines could harvest the aliens skins and use them as armour

In Aliens, we overheard Bishop mentioning that some kind of constant secretion in the aliens' bodies neutralizes the acid.

However, it should be pointed out that there is simply no such thing as a universal acid; this stuff was demonstrated to be extremely effective on the material used in the Nostromo, but that does not mean it is unstoppable, particularly for armour which was designed to resist man-made corrosive weapons (from a society with hundreds of thousands of years of space travel experience, no less).

BTW, one point everyone missed: if you look at how much acid got on individual marines in Aliens and how little damage it did, I would have to say that the face-huggers' acid is far, far stronger than the warriors' acid. This makes sense, since the face-hugger has no other defense.

I don't think the Aliens are actually that tough. I have outlined numerous scenarios before where the Marines could have cleaned their clocks quite easily. Even after everything else went wrong, they should have moved out into open terrain rather than holing up in a building where the tactical advantage of their ranged weaponry would be nullified.

[Alyeska]

I heard somewhere that the Aliens skin was pure Alkaline thus rendering the blood harmless to the Alien. I might be wrong, but i know i definately read the the Aliens skin was toxic to humans otherwise the Marines could harvest the aliens skins and use them as armour

In Aliens, we overheard Bishop mentioning that some kind of constant secretion in the aliens' bodies neutralizes the acid.

However, it should be pointed out that there is simply no such thing as a universal acid; this stuff was demonstrated to be extremely effective on the material used in the Nostromo, but that does not mean it is unstoppable, particularly for armour which was designed to resist man-made corrosive weapons (from a society with hundreds of thousands of years of space travel experience, no less).

BTW, one point everyone missed: if you look at how much acid got on individual marines in Aliens and how little damage it did, I would have to say that the face-huggers' acid is far, far stronger than the warriors' acid. This makes sense, since the face-hugger has no other defense.

I don't think the Aliens are actually that tough. I have outlined numerous scenarios before where the Marines could have cleaned their clocks quite easily. Even after everything else went wrong, they should have moved out into open terrain rather than holing up in a building where the tactical advantage of their ranged weaponry would be nullified.

Open terrain would not have worked for the simple reason that being outside in the elements is a disadvantage in the weather and the fact that they were limited in ammo. By going inside they were able to build barriers and force the Aliens to come at them through points that they placed sentry guns.

However if Ripley hadn't been so agressive on the APC they could have used the APC for shelter and used its weapon system to defeat incomming Aliens. But that was Ripley's mistake and she wasn't military trained.

[Darth Wong]

Open terrain would not have worked for the simple reason that being outside in the elements is a disadvantage in the weather and the fact that they were limited in ammo. By going inside they were able to build barriers and force the Aliens to come at them through points that they placed sentry guns.

And you figure this would have worked out worse than what happened?!?!?!???

The sentry guns can be used for perimeter defense out in the open, too. That's undoubtedly what they were designed for! They probably have effective ranges of at least 1/2 km. And how many aliens were there? 100? They had more than enough ammo. As for the weather, if those Marines are incapable of fighting in rain, they don't deserve to call themselves Marines.

However if Ripley hadn't been so agressive on the APC they could have used the APC for shelter and used its weapon system to defeat incomming Aliens. But that was Ripley's mistake and she wasn't military trained.

Water under the bridge. Once they were out of the ambush, they should have played it smart and used their advantage. When your enemy has a weapons range of about 3 feet and you have a weapons range of 500 metres, get out in the open.

[Alyeska]

Open terrain would not have worked for the simple reason that being outside in the elements is a disadvantage in the weather and the fact that they were limited in ammo. By going inside they were able to build barriers and force the Aliens to come at them through points that they placed sentry guns.

And you figure this would have worked out worse than what happened?!?!?!???

In open terrain you have to cover much more open space. They would have had to place a single gun in each quadrant. The loss of a SINGLE gun complete opens them up to attack because the Aliens can then flood through there. We already know they are smart enough to pull back from certain attacks. Once they probed and take out a single gun then the Marines are completely open.

The sentry guns can be used for perimeter defense out in the open, too. That's undoubtedly what they were designed for! They probably have effective ranges of at least 1/2 km. And how many aliens were there? 100? They had more than enough ammo. As for the weather, if those Marines are incapable of fighting in rain, they don't deserve to call themselves Marines.

The Sentry guns were capable of holding back the Aliens inside as long as they had ammo. The fact that the guns ran OUT of ammo indicates they did not have enough. Of 4 guns holding the Aliens back on a single attack point three ran out and the last gun had less then 15 rounds.

As to the weather, we know that was some fierce weather and there were cold issues as well. And a cold marine does not fight as well as a decently heated marine.

Water under the bridge. Once they were out of the ambush, they should have played it smart and used their advantage. When your enemy has a weapons range of about 3 feet and you have a weapons range of 500 metres, get out in the open.

AS I already pointed out, they didn't have the ammo nor the weapon coverage to fight it out in the open.

[Darth Wong]

In open terrain you have to cover much more open space. They would have had to place a single gun in each quadrant. The loss of a SINGLE gun complete opens them up to attack because the Aliens can then flood through there. We already know they are smart enough to pull back from certain attacks. Once they probed and take out a single gun then the Marines are completely open.

To what? Creatures that must crawl over hundreds of metres before they present any threat whatsoever? You are still thinking of this in terms of a conventional enemy, who can shoot back. This is not a conventional enemy. They don't need a huge perimeter; they can have their guns close, and reposition them if the critters try from another angle.

The Sentry guns were capable of holding back the Aliens inside as long as they had ammo. The fact that the guns ran OUT of ammo indicates they did not have enough. Of 4 guns holding the Aliens back on a single attack point three ran out and the last gun had less then 15 rounds.

Naturally, since they fired on full-auto the whole time. It's not as if there were a thousand aliens; each one probably got hit 30 times or more. And the Marines would be picking them off from long-range with semi-auto fire. The sentry guns would not be hosing down the entire terrain indefinitely; they identify a target at long range, they shoot a few times, they stop. As I said before, that's what they were probably designed for.

As to the weather, we know that was some fierce weather and there were cold issues as well. And a cold marine does not fight as well as a decently heated marine.

But he sure fights better when his enemy has a 500 metre range disadvantage.

Are you seriously saying that if you were heavily outnumbered but the enemy has knives and you have guns, you'd rather fight room to room than out in the open?

[Alyeska]

Are you seriously saying that if you were heavily outnumbered but the enemy has knives and you have guns, you'd rather fight room to room than out in the open?

I grant the advantage you say, but what I am trying to show is they didn't have the amuntition. I will say your tactic has roughly the same chance of sucess. The only problem would be getting Bishop to the satelite dish without fear of Alien attack.

[Knife]

They should have moved to the LZ after the reactor mess and secured it while waiting for Bishop to bring down the other assualt ship. No matter what their ammo status was, they needed to be ready for exfil as soon as it became available and holeing up in a room with multiple entry/exit points was stupid. They didn't build it so they wouldn't know all the nooks and crannies, so don't hide so far from the LZ in a place your not familur with. Still the shear fighting ferocity of the Colonial Marines is striking.

[NecronLord]

Anyone know how many colonists there were?

from that -~2 to 20 you can work out the number of aliens

[Lagmonster]

In Aliens, we overheard Bishop mentioning that some kind of constant secretion in the aliens' bodies neutralizes the acid.

You're actually right according to the film novelizations and EU books. Having read the books from the EU in Aliens, they also confirm that the face-huggers (and the eggs, interestingly), have far more powerful corrosives in them than the adults. They also go to great lengths in the EU to describe the swarm as led by a queen who is telepathically controlling the swarm's action, and at one point in 'Earth Hive' they comment that the average drone is 'no smarter than a dog', but that a queen 'tested out to 180 on the Irwin-Schlatner scale, making it more clever than most humans'. The books (and the movies in parts) show how queen-coordinated aliens can set up and coordinate detailed traps and strategic plans, whereas one alien alone is pretty much a reckless berserker.

[Knife]

Anyone know how many colonists there were?

from that -~2 to 20 you can work out the number of aliens

Didn't the CEO say something to the effect of 60 families on LV214.

[neoolong]

Anyone know how many colonists there were?

from that -~2 to 20 you can work out the number of aliens

There were 158 colonists, according to the population sign of Hadleys Hope. Minus Newt, minus the guy who got killed trying to get the face hugger off, minus the woman who chest bursted, and minus the man who made the queen, that makes 154 fully adult aliens possible. However, given that at least one was not full grown, evidenced by the woman, there were probably less than that.

[NecronLord]

Actually I believe the quote was "smarter than most humans who have ever lived."

[NecronLord]

I heard somewhere that the Aliens skin was pure Alkaline thus rendering the blood harmless to the Alien. I might be wrong, but i know i definately read the the Aliens skin was toxic to humans otherwise the Marines could harvest the aliens skins and use them as armour

In Aliens, we overheard Bishop mentioning that some kind of constant secretion in the aliens' bodies neutralizes the acid.

Hence my acid-battery hypothesis, they only need to be able to eat suitable materials to synthesise the acid and alkali

[Seele]

I don't think that the marines went back to the colony due to it was shelter that they expected to be there for a while. And also note that the highest ranking person there was Corp. Hicks and that he might not know all of the possible ways to handle the situation. Not to blast him or the other marines, just bad luck piling on bad luck for the lot of them.

[neoolong]

I don't think that the marines went back to the colony due to it was shelter that they expected to be there for a while. And also note that the highest ranking person there was Corp. Hicks and that he might not know all of the possible ways to handle the situation. Not to blast him or the other marines, just bad luck piling on bad luck for the lot of them.

Didn't Newt say something about the aliens coming out at night, so they had better move?

Also, to make a movie they had to produce conflict. Which mean Gorman being incompetent, Burke being an idiot, etc.

[NecronLord]

Wasn't Lv452 a dirtbowl. with very uneven ground. it's not exactly a perfect plain out there, visibility would be down to about 50M at night.

[Sea Skimmer]

I heard somewhere that the Aliens skin was pure Alkaline thus rendering the blood harmless to the Alien. I might be wrong, but i know i definately read the the Aliens skin was toxic to humans otherwise the Marines could harvest the aliens skins and use them as armour

In Aliens, we overheard Bishop mentioning that some kind of constant secretion in the aliens' bodies neutralizes the acid.

However, it should be pointed out that there is simply no such thing as a universal acid; this stuff was demonstrated to be extremely effective on the material used in the Nostromo, but that does not mean it is unstoppable, particularly for armour which was designed to resist man-made corrosive weapons (from a society with hundreds of thousands of years of space travel experience, no less).

BTW, one point everyone missed: if you look at how much acid got on individual marines in Aliens and how little damage it did, I would have to say that the face-huggers' acid is far, far stronger than the warriors' acid. This makes sense, since the face-hugger has no other defense.

I don't think the Aliens are actually that tough. I have outlined numerous scenarios before where the Marines could have cleaned their clocks quite easily. Even after everything else went wrong, they should have moved out into open terrain rather than holing up in a building where the tactical advantage of their ranged weaponry would be nullified.

Really bad idea.

That plan would work, expect they don't have sufficient ammunition to beat off the attack. Even at close quarters with the aliens "lined up wall to wall" and bullets likely punching through one and into another they did no have enough ammunition to kill all of the warriors.

In the open, the Aliens would be dispersed and would be much harder targets to hit. The effect of grenades would also be lessened.

Furthermore the Marines would have no way of channeling the attackers and might find them selves unable to cope with so many dispersed targets even if they had enough ammunition. Once overrun, there could be no escape and there would be no doors to seal to buy time. They'd simply die.

[Darth Wong]

Really bad idea.

That plan would work, expect they don't have sufficient ammunition to beat off the attack. Even at close quarters with the aliens "lined up wall to wall" and bullets likely punching through one and into another they did no have enough ammunition to kill all of the warriors.

How so? They had many hundreds of rounds of ammo in addition to grenades, flamethrowers, and sentry guns with a thousand rounds of combined ammo.

In the open, the Aliens would be dispersed and would be much harder targets to hit. The effect of grenades would also be lessened.

And they would be able to take potshots from hundreds of metres away, instead of having them drop through the ceiling right on top of them.

Furthermore the Marines would have no way of channeling the attackers and might find them selves unable to cope with so many dispersed targets even if they had enough ammunition. Once overrun, there could be no escape and there would be no doors to seal to buy time. They'd simply die.

In case you missed the film, they DID all die. And most of the deceased did not run out of ammo first. Out in the open, the aliens must overrun them after fighting through their defensive fire for hundreds of metres. In the building, the aliens overran them WITHOUT having to fight through defensive fire for even 10 metres.

[Alyeska]

How so? They had many hundreds of rounds of ammo in addition to grenades, flamethrowers, and sentry guns with a thousand rounds of combined ammo.

Incorrect. They had a single flame thrower that worked at 50% load with another that was unknown. Each rifle had about 50 rounds and there were maybe 3 grenades per rifle (4 rifles). Each sentry gun only had 500 rounds of amunition

And they would be able to take potshots from hundreds of metres away, instead of having them drop through the ceiling right on top of them.

True, however the Aliens could concentrate on a single vector and that would be more then enough to defeat a single gun and the 4 Pulse rifles that they could concentrate in that area. With the Aliens being more spread out grenades will have less effect and the sentry gun will have to waste time tracking between targets rather then always being on target.

In case you missed the film, they DID all die. And most of the deceased did not run out of ammo first. Out in the open, the aliens must overrun them after fighting through their defensive fire for hundreds of metres. In the building, the aliens overran them WITHOUT having to fight through defensive fire for even 10 metres.

Out in the open its much easier. This is not relatively flat terrain. Even if they set up on high ground the Aliens could approach via the bad terrain. It being dark out would only make things worse. Lastly they can attack on a single vector thereby neutralizing the usefullness of 3 sentry guns.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

I don't think the Aliens are actually that tough. I have outlined numerous scenarios before where the Marines could have cleaned their clocks quite easily. Even after everything else went wrong, they should have moved out into open terrain rather than holing up in a building where the tactical advantage of their ranged weaponry would be nullified.

But since aliens instincts are very keen, I don't think they would give up their one big alvantage to coccoon a handfull of marines who are out in the open. While your strategy works by keeping the Aliens at bay (they would adre move out into the open). But the Problem is LV-426 has a mostly craggy terrain and from what I remember, very few if any open spaces.

Care to put up some some scenarios were the marines would win? Just Curious.