A Battlestar Navy.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2005-01-23 02:51pm

It could simply be a matter of economics, building a ship with half the abilities of the Battlestars might still cost 75% of what a BS would cost.
The USN scrapped all their nuklear powered cruiser programs due to the pricetag despite the advantage of escorts able to match the preformance of their carriers. If there hadn't been a cheap option available to the USN we might well have seen more CVNs, the carrier is a very flexible weapon capable of covering multiple threats, scouting, escorting, strike and most other things you can think of.
Major escorts like cruisers and destroyers only make sense if they are much cheaper than the ships they escort.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2005-01-23 02:55pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Hopefully the Galactica will come across a goldmine, maybe a ship that fled after hearing of the nuke attacks on the colonies and has stores with it. The humans won't last too long if they keep running out of Vipers and ammo or food. Fuel is an issue, but what they use can be found elsewhere (you'd think they'd use He3 or something).

It's been said on the show that Tylium has an energy density of 500MJ/kg. Rather low, fission and fusion have greater energy densities.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-23 03:01pm

Which, again, makes me wonder why they don't just get a ramscoop and go mining around a few gas giants on the way. Surely for a civilisation that has thermonuclear devices, a fusion reactor wouldn't be too much trouble. Even if they didn't have He3 around, they can always use deuterium and tritium.

In anycase, I won't rule out meeting other ships and the possibility that the navy had a whole fleet of various vessels, we simply never saw them before they became expanding clouds of constituent atoms.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2005-01-23 03:24pm

We know they can do basic sustained fission at the least -- the production of plutonium demands it. Fusion is probably in, too, so it is kinda odd why they're using Tylium. Perhaps it is merely a highly-volatile mass to spew out the backside?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-23 03:29pm

You could use hydrogen as reaction mass and that stuff, last I heard, was quite abundant in the universe neighbourhood. Fusion for power, hydrogen for reaction mass. Simple.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-23 03:52pm

Fusion is far more efficient, not all that hard to do and the fuel is in the top 10 abundant elements in the universe. It makes more sense to go with anti-matter almost than this fictional stuff (which, IIRC, can also catch fire like fossil fuels do as per the mini with the nuke hit on the hangar bay).

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-01-23 04:03pm

Nephilim wrote:You guys also have to remember that Galactica was about to be decomissioned with one of its hanger bays converted into a museum, in which in the series it is still serving as a museum, but in a different capacity (for the dead it seems). The Galactica only had one squadron operational at the time it was being decomissioned and that was 20 Vipers Mrk VII's plus whatever Raptors were still on the Galactica. The Viper Mrk. II's were presumably also going to be used in the museum displays and there were about anywhere from 2 to 3 squadrons of those onboard which were them converted and put out to fight when the Galactica needed them.

My original bitch really isn't about the Galactic, though she's the only Battlestar seen. They said that the fleet of 200 Battlestars was pretty much bestroyed by the Cylon's. Why a fleet of overly huge carriers. Reguardless of how many fighters she can field, the mass of the ship compared to the space dedicated to the fighters is enormous.

Also, if you go for the large cargo/water capcity for extended deep ranging missions? How much space did the Colonies inhabit? Are the twelve colonies in twelve systems, six, one? If they Colonies inhabit a vast 'empire' how did the Cylons destroy the whole fleet in one stroke? Shouldn't some of those Battlestars be out on patrol?

With respect to destroyers, cruisers, escorts of some sort, we see no less than 7 civilian ships. The Argoship, Celestra, Colonial One, Geminon Traveler, Luxuary Liners, Mining ship, Space Park and the Salvage and Repair ship.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/

Obviously civies see the point of specific ships for specific missions, why would the military not? Hell, if the battlefield is dominated by large yeild nuclear missiles, then a small 'gunship/missile boat' type ship not that much larger than the Colonial One model would be cheap means for delievering those warheads.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2005-01-23 05:05pm

Going OT for a second, I have a fusion question: Which of the fuels mention (He3, deuterium and tritium) has the greatest enery density?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-23 05:29pm

Anything with He3 is preferable.

AMX · Post by **AMX** » 2005-01-23 05:39pm

Weren't the battlestars (in the original BSG, that is) a carrier/battleship hybrid?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2005-01-23 07:02pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Anything with He3 is preferable.

IIRC, He3 is only preferred because it is a "clean" reaction. I'm not sure if it is the most energetic.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-01-23 07:02pm

I think that "Water" gives some evidence for their being ships in the Colonial military other than Battlestars. They did a n underway replentishment for a civvie ship at the start of "Water". Why would the Galactica have the ability to provide other ships with supplies if the Colonials didn't have auxileries?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-01-23 07:57pm

From Ronald D. Moore's blog...

Ronald D. Moore wrote:I always thought that the Colonial Fleet would have a variety of vessels for various purposes. The battlestars formed the nucleus of fleet, with battlegroups around them, much like modern day carrier groups. Battlestars are different in that unlike carriers, they also carry heavy weapons of their own and fight other opposing capital ships -- in a sense, they are a combination carrier/battleship. But there might also have been dedicated heavy gun ships and smaller carriers as well.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2005-01-23 08:45pm

Knife wrote:How much space did the Colonies inhabit? Are the twelve colonies in twelve systems, six, one?

It appears that they managed to find a system with 12 habitable planets. Jumping doesn't seem to be very popular for some reason. The Galactica hadn't jumped for 20 years, I think, at the start of the mini. Colonial One didn't jump to the Galactica, but opted to make a 6 hour journey.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-01-23 09:27pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:
It appears that they managed to find a system with 12 habitable planets. Jumping doesn't seem to be very popular for some reason. The Galactica hadn't jumped for 20 years, I think, at the start of the mini. Colonial One didn't jump to the Galactica, but opted to make a 6 hour journey.

Thats silly and a weak point in the cannon then. Why have FTL at all then if all your assets are in one system? Besides which, a system with twelve habital planets? Even if a couple are habital moons, it still stretches shit. Plus, a 200 Battlestar fleet to protet one system? That is some thing like 16 Battlestars per planet/moon with an extra 8 left over.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2005-01-23 10:12pm

Knife wrote:Why have FTL at all then if all your assets are in one system?

Because they had to have FTL to leave Kobol's system. Maybe they did have more than one. We might never know.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2005-01-23 10:22pm

I just figure the missiles are the primary anti-capship weapon for the Galactica. Kinda like what the Basestars use.

Hell, I figure that's the reason for BSG. Kinda like our own DDGs, CGs, and FFGs. Guided Missile Battlestar or somesuch.

As to why it might be a Battlestar only Navy, I have no idea. Maybe it is one of those "jack of all trades" type of ship, and they decided to go that route (with dedicated support ships like tankers and ammo carriers). Or they just call everything a Battlestar, from the big ass battleships to a relatively small frigate. That would have me wonder about how they go about designating their ships, but that's a question for another thread.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2005-01-23 10:28pm

RogueIce wrote:Hell, I figure that's the reason for BSG. Kinda like our own DDGs, CGs, and FFGs. Guided Missile Battlestar or somesuch.

The diagram of the water tanks in "Water" overrules that, unfortunately (I like your idea better). BSG means "Battlestar Group," which could mean many things. In the context of the diagram, it looked like the ship's class number.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-01-23 10:31pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:
RogueIce wrote:Hell, I figure that's the reason for BSG. Kinda like our own DDGs, CGs, and FFGs. Guided Missile Battlestar or somesuch.
The diagram of the water tanks in "Water" overrules that, unfortunately (I like your idea better). BSG means "Battlestar Group," which could mean many things. In the context of the diagram, it looked like the ship's class number.

Meh, with ~200 or so Battlestars, four Battlestars to a group would be 50 groups. Figure that down through the ages, some of those numbers/units would have been 'retired' or otherwise not used. 75 is kind of high, but doable in that way.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2005-01-23 10:31pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:
Knife wrote:Why have FTL at all then if all your assets are in one system?
Because they had to have FTL to leave Kobol's system. Maybe they did have more than one. We might never know.

Not necessarily. They could have had "sleeper ships" where people were cryogenically frozen for the centuries it took to travel to the twelve colonies. I remember something about that being mentioned somewhere, but I don't remember if it had to do with the new BSG series or the old one.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-01-23 10:33pm

Mayabird wrote:
StarshipTitanic wrote:
Knife wrote:Why have FTL at all then if all your assets are in one system?
Because they had to have FTL to leave Kobol's system. Maybe they did have more than one. We might never know.
Not necessarily. They could have had "sleeper ships" where people were cryogenically frozen for the centuries it took to travel to the twelve colonies. I remember something about that being mentioned somewhere, but I don't remember if it had to do with the new BSG series or the old one.

In the old one, when they introduced the 'Terra' story arc, they initially found a spaceshuttle like craft with a family aboard in cryo-sleep thing. Harry Hamilton, IIRC.

That said, if they have all their colonies in one system, even if at one time they did have FTL, why would they continue having it? Use it or loose it, type thing.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2005-01-23 11:06pm

Knife wrote:That said, if they have all their colonies in one system, even if at one time they did have FTL, why would they continue having it? Use it or loose it, type thing.

Because it's faster? It would take months to cross a system if they really needed to, which is unacceptable.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-01-23 11:19pm

Speaking of travel times...seems like FTL wasn't used very often. When the Galactica first jumped I think Tigh said somethingf along the lines that they haven't jumped in 20 years. Yet the very young mechanic states "I always hate this." so she has experienced FTL before. Tigh and others are a;lways reluctant to jump in the miniseries. In "33" they jump very quickly and witout a hitch. They gave us the impression in the miniseries that jumping was dangerous and should be avoided if possible. In 33 there are no 'accidents' despite the fact that they constantly jump for 3 days every 33 minutes.

They haven't really addressed the FTL issue in this new series almost as much as the original series never addressed FTL either.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-01-23 11:19pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:
Because it's faster? It would take months to cross a system if they really needed to, which is unacceptable.

Then why the 'long legs', 'meduim legs', and 'short legs' talked about at the Sci fi site? If they're in one system and only need to cross the system in a reasonable time, why have long range-short range FTL. Anything above getting across the system is a waste.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2005-01-24 12:05am

Knife wrote:
StarshipTitanic wrote:
Because it's faster? It would take months to cross a system if they really needed to, which is unacceptable.
Then why the 'long legs', 'meduim legs', and 'short legs' talked about at the Sci fi site? If they're in one system and only need to cross the system in a reasonable time, why have long range-short range FTL. Anything above getting across the system is a waste.

I already said they could have more than one system, what more would you like me to say? Moore might bother to throw us some backstory explaining it.