Dark Trooper vs. Space Marine(40k)

[Vympel]

Technically, Phase III
Dark Troopers ARE robotic power suits. And Mohc is inside the suit.

Ok technically they are robotic powered suits, but they are still not 'robots' in the common sense of the term- in that they aren't droids.

[Grand Admiral Ancaris]

Go fuck yourself Ancaris.

My my, aren't we touchy. I suppose now you want to take your toys and go home.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Technically, Phase III
Dark Troopers ARE robotic power suits. And Mohc is inside the suit.

Ok technically they are robotic powered suits, but they are still not 'robots' in the common sense of the term- in that they aren't droids.

No they were not and I never meant that. THe only thing I can think of for the SMurfs to come close is is they use Terminator Armor with jump packs. Terminator armor is a very tough powered exoskeleton which can support heavy weapons, and the jump packs enable it to move much faster than normal in a straight line. However, IMO the DT will still win even if that is the case because we have seen it to all kinds of crazy flight maneuvers and shit in the comics and in the game. From all available sources Terminators are only capable of rapid straight line movement (Deep Strike) and that's it.

[Grand Admiral Ancaris]

Well? One Dark Trooper, mark III versus a vanilla type Space Marine?

Dark Trooper wins. Dark Trooper has better weaponry, is more maneuverable, better armor. Just all around superior to the Space Marine. Still be fun watching the Space Marine get massacred though.

[Grand Admiral Ancaris]

No they were not and I never meant that. THe only thing I can think of for the SMurfs to come close is is they use Terminator Armor with jump packs. Terminator armor is a very tough powered exoskeleton which can support heavy weapons, and the jump packs enable it to move much faster than normal in a straight line. However, IMO the DT will still win even if that is the case because we have seen it to all kinds of crazy flight maneuvers and shit in the comics and in the game. From all available sources Terminators are only capable of rapid straight line movement (Deep Strike) and that's it.

Terminator armor with jump pack would make this fight more interesting. One big problem though is the DT come with heat-seeking missiles (according to the Essential guide anyhow). That's one way to ruin the Terminators day, be mid air, and have a bunch of missiles guiding themselves towards you.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

No they were not and I never meant that. THe only thing I can think of for the SMurfs to come close is is they use Terminator Armor with jump packs. Terminator armor is a very tough powered exoskeleton which can support heavy weapons, and the jump packs enable it to move much faster than normal in a straight line. However, IMO the DT will still win even if that is the case because we have seen it to all kinds of crazy flight maneuvers and shit in the comics and in the game. From all available sources Terminators are only capable of rapid straight line movement (Deep Strike) and that's it.

Terminator armor with jump pack would make this fight more interesting. One big problem though is the DT come with heat-seeking missiles (according to the Essential guide anyhow). That's one way to ruin the Terminators day, be mid air, and have a bunch of missiles guiding themselves towards you.

What if the Terminators could use their Cyclone missile launchers? Or their plasma cannon? Termies have a lot of heavy weapons and both are stabilized enought to use them on the wing.

[Shocker]

Dark troopers wear powerful exoskeletal powered armor suits carrying massive weaponry which makes them formidable self-contained weapon platforms (ref. SWE). These elite stormtroopers are trained to have limited control over the Dark Side of The Force (hence their name), thus greatly enhancing their combat effectiveness and lethality (ref. Rebellion). Their exoskeletal armor has enormous physical strength, and they are capable of extended flight maneuvers. Their formidable armament includes heavy automatic blasters and missile launchers.

Plus in Dark Empire. elite stormtrooper squads assigned to Operation Shadow Hand, they had been specially trained to use the Dark Side of the Force.

And the original source material. Darktroopers
the creation of Imperial Admiral Rom Mohc, the Dark Troopers were specially-enhanced stormtroopers. There were three stages of darktrooper development. Stage 1 involved a droid frame wearing just the protective exoskeleton, equipped with knife-like armor and an arm-mounted personal shield generator. Although primitive, Stage 1 darktroopers were nonetheless relentless in their pursuit of a target. Stage 2 darktroopers were to be the standard combat unit, using the same exoskeleton with additional armor plating, but were armed with assault cannons and rocket packs. Stage 3 darktroopers were never fully developed. Rom Mohc was the only known user of the Stage 3 design, which incorporated enhanced shields.

Stage Two and Three Darktroopers are humans inside a robotic power armor. Only stage one are droids.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

[
Stage Two and Three Darktroopers are humans inside a robotic power armor. Only stage one are droids.

Incorrect: Stage II is a Stage I trooper inside the power suit. And I writhe in concession to Shadow Hand thing.

[Vympel]

In Dark Forces the Dark Trooper blaster fire is BLUE!

Just like the big clonetrooper rifles!!!!

Heavy firepower indeed

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

In Dark Forces the Dark Trooper blaster fire is BLUE!

Just like the big clonetrooper rifles!!!!

Heavy firepower indeed

Possibly. Assault cannons are massively powerful plasma guns with an integral portable nuke launcher (detonite missiles, actually)

[Grand Admiral Ancaris]

What if the Terminators could use their Cyclone missile launchers? Or their plasma cannon? Termies have a lot of heavy weapons and both are stabilized enought to use them on the wing.

Imperium Plasma weapons aren't the most stable of choices for a SM to carry. They may be powerful, but in a no holds bar firefight I think I'd rather have a bolter or las weapon, simply because if they malfunction, they're less likely to take the wielder out like if a plasma gun malfunctions. It's also easier and faster to reload a bolter than it is a Plasma gun should you need more ammo, and a flask for a plasma weapon is only good for 10 shots. And I think boths sides in this fight would be able to avoid 10 shots form non-seeking weapons.
I'm not familiar with Cyclone missiles, but the question is, can they hit a moving target (seeking)? Also, Might be possible for a DT to use its' own heat seaking missiles to shoot down a Cyclone missiles mid-flight? It's propellant has gotta be giving off heat as it burns, right?

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Hang on - I am leafing through Codex Astartes.

Yes - Apparently the Cyclone missile launcher is a miniature missile launcher permanently attached to the Terminator armor that allows it to be fired on the move. It is a one shot at a time weapon.

The bolter is a good idea, but I would prefer the lascannon. Penetrates DT armor better.

[Slartibartfast]

Right, Shadow troopers are artificial jedi, but Dark Troopers, from the game Dark Forces, were robots with implemented force-using capabilities IIRC.
Jedi Knight II, aka Dark Forces III, was a continuation of this story.

I think Shadow Troopers weren't "normal humans" exactly, more like weak force users (apprentices) made as powerful as fully trained Jedi by artificial means: funky force crystal + VoTJ.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Dark Troopers under the project headed by Gereral Mohc and chronicalled in Dark Forces appeared to be the development of exosuit mobile combat platforms for stormtrooper use that also developed sophisticated droid AIs as a consequence (prototypes used droids, but later prototypes could be worn by operators and Mohc was obsessed with personal combat, you do the math). Therefore I think the droids were just part of the R&D, that the final suits would be used by humans.

The Darktroopers in Dark Empire II were mild-Dark Side using Stormtroopers with ebony armor and heavy weapons.

The Dark Troopers from Galactic Battlegrounds and Rebellion seem to be a combination. Most Darktroopers were apparently stormies with some Force abilities, and some were also issued powered exosuit combat platforms, but it seems the mass-production of said suits for stormies in general was canned after Katarn nuked the Arc Hammer.

Shadowtroopers are Force-sensitives embued with Force abilities (ie., minimal training, but shitty fighters) from wierd crystals using the residual force presence remaining at the Valley of the Jedi (the impressive bit is Skywalker chased all of the Reborn and Desaan away even though they were amped up from exposure to the Valley and he wasn't). Their armor is a cortosis ore alloy which is resistant to lightsabre impacts.

[NecronLord]

It would depend on the marine.

Bog standard marine.. dies
Devastator mairne with;
Heavy bolter - probably not
missile launcher - has to get the DT in one shot.
Multi Melta - probably
lascannon - yes
Plasma cannon - yes

Bikes left off for the sake of my sanity

Assault marines w/ jump packs
Normal kit - probably not, would have to get in close (and while you're doing all that what's the dark trooper going to be doing?)
Plasma pistol. Maybe, assuming it doesn't blow his hand off...
Meltabomb probably not, needs to get in close

Scouts - no, just no.

Veterans Same as normal marines but with a better chance, still probably not.

Terminator assault - not really

Terminator

chainfist- not really helpful in this situation.
Assault cannon - Maybe
Heavy flamer - unlikely to be effictive on DT
Cyclone missile launcher - probably


Librarian - Yes

Chaplin - only if he has a jump pack or meltagun

Leader - probably not without serious kitting up
Commander - ditto
Force Commander - probably would manage it. better chance if kitted out

and finally just for fun

Pissed off Raven Guard Force commander with jump pack lighning claw and bolter-meltagun combi-weapon - dead DT.

in conclusion there are few SM capable of taking out the DT without kitting up. (vortex grenade anyone )

[Grand Admiral Ancaris]

Hang on - I am leafing through Codex Astartes.

Yes - Apparently the Cyclone missile launcher is a miniature missile launcher permanently attached to the Terminator armor that allows it to be fired on the move. It is a one shot at a time weapon.

hmm.. just a one shot weapon isn't going to be very useful in this fight. Too much chance of the other side dodging. Here I think Rapid fire-type weapons are better, cause you can simply bathe an area and fire, with a good chance of hitting your target whether they're trying to dodge or not.

The bolter is a good idea, but I would prefer the lascannon. Penetrates DT armor better.

ummm..... can a SM, Terminator or otherwise, actually /carry/ a Lascannon though? I thought these were big weapons, and only beings like Nightbringer carried their own "built in" Lascannons.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Hang on - I am leafing through Codex Astartes.

Yes - Apparently the Cyclone missile launcher is a miniature missile launcher permanently attached to the Terminator armor that allows it to be fired on the move. It is a one shot at a time weapon.

hmm.. just a one shot weapon isn't going to be very useful in this fight. Too much chance of the other side dodging. Here I think Rapid fire-type weapons are better, cause you can simply bathe an area and fire, with a good chance of hitting your target whether they're trying to dodge or not.

The bolter is a good idea, but I would prefer the lascannon. Penetrates DT armor better.

ummm..... can a SM, Terminator or otherwise, actually /carry/ a Lascannon though? I thought these were big weapons, and only beings like Nightbringer carried their own "built in" Lascannons.

The Cyclone is not one-shot-only, its one at a time, i.e., it does not fire a swarm of missles.

And yes, a Space Marine can carry around a lascannon with extreme ease. Their power armor is extremely tough and also greatly enhances the already-strong Marine's strength.

And I think the Marine would win. Yes, he's outmatched in sheer firepower, but his armor can take the knocks and he's got some kind of implant or modification for nearly every contingency.

[Skelron]

Nope Marines are fully Capable of carrying Lascannons, Heavy Bolter's etal... Normal Humans however need it to be mounted on something and can't carry them on their sholder's. (With the honourable exception of try again Bragg, may he rest in the Emporer's light, and be rewarded for his sacriface's for the Imperium. He will be revenged.)

A Hell massacre time, Dark Trooper's getting it too easy... bring out the Grey Knights!!



Joking honest.... (well they said Space Marines...)

[Grand Admiral Ancaris]

It would depend on the marine.

Bog standard marine.. dies
Devastator mairne with;
Heavy bolter - probably not
missile launcher - has to get the DT in one shot.
Multi Melta - probably
lascannon - yes
Plasma cannon - yes

Like I've said, I'm not exactly thrilled with Imperium plasma weapons. Things that have a 1 in 6 chance of blowing up and potentially taking the wielder with them does not thrill me. (especially with the way I tend to roll)

(Much snipping)

in conclusion there are few SM capable of taking out the DT without kitting up. (vortex grenade anyone )

The Librarian might manage, but he has to get awfully close to use his psychic powers (going by the SM codex). the DT is quite capable of staying out of range just blasting at a Librarian from a distance with it's arsonel (and probably breaking the librarian's concentration in the process.)

[Grand Admiral Ancaris]

The Cyclone is not one-shot-only, its one at a time, i.e., it does not fire a swarm of missles.

Ah. okay.

[quote[And yes, a Space Marine can carry around a lascannon with extreme ease. Their power armor is extremely tough and also greatly enhances the already-strong Marine's strength.[/quote]

okay. Just seemed a las cannon was a rather large weapon, even for a SM.

And I think the Marine would win. Yes, he's outmatched in sheer firepower, but his armor can take the knocks and he's got some kind of implant or modification for nearly every contingency.

Nearly every contingency typicially doesn't mean an opponent who's both more heavily armed, has better armor, has more maneuverability, and (perhaps) some Dark Side abilities as a bonus. I just cannot see a SM winning this one. SM vs Stormtrooper? With ease. SM versus Dark Trooper? No. SM, even with Terminator armor and better weapons they're simply outclassed.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

And I think the Marine would win. Yes, he's outmatched in sheer firepower, but his armor can take the knocks and he's got some kind of implant or modification for nearly every contingency.

Nearly every contingency typicially doesn't mean an opponent who's both more heavily armed, has better armor, has more maneuverability, and (perhaps) some Dark Side abilities as a bonus. I just cannot see a SM winning this one. SM vs Stormtrooper? With ease. SM versus Dark Trooper? No. SM, even with Terminator armor and better weapons they're simply outclassed.

I would agree that the DT is better armed and is more manueverable, though I think the Marine has superior armor. It takes an anti-tank missle to punch through it, and even then just barely. Heavy machine guns and rapid-fire las weapons are little more than an annoyance.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

And I think the Marine would win. Yes, he's outmatched in sheer firepower, but his armor can take the knocks and he's got some kind of implant or modification for nearly every contingency.

Nearly every contingency typicially doesn't mean an opponent who's both more heavily armed, has better armor, has more maneuverability, and (perhaps) some Dark Side abilities as a bonus. I just cannot see a SM winning this one. SM vs Stormtrooper? With ease. SM versus Dark Trooper? No. SM, even with Terminator armor and better weapons they're simply outclassed.

I would agree that the DT is better armed and is more manueverable, though I think the Marine has superior armor. It takes an anti-tank missle to punch through it, and even then just barely. Heavy machine guns and rapid-fire las weapons are little more than an annoyance.

A bolter is NOT a heavy machine gun.
A bolt is essentially a 30mm HEAP rocket. A bolter fires these things. And according to the fluff, a lasgun can cut through 30cm of concrete.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Nearly every contingency typicially doesn't mean an opponent who's both more heavily armed, has better armor, has more maneuverability, and (perhaps) some Dark Side abilities as a bonus. I just cannot see a SM winning this one. SM vs Stormtrooper? With ease. SM versus Dark Trooper? No. SM, even with Terminator armor and better weapons they're simply outclassed.

I would agree that the DT is better armed and is more manueverable, though I think the Marine has superior armor. It takes an anti-tank missle to punch through it, and even then just barely. Heavy machine guns and rapid-fire las weapons are little more than an annoyance.

A bolter is NOT a heavy machine gun.
A bolt is essentially a 30mm HEAP rocket. A bolter fires these things. And according to the fluff, a lasgun can cut through 30cm of concrete.

Actually I was referring to the heavy bolter, so power armor is very tough indeed

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Damn straight. Yet the DT uses rapid-fire plasma rounds so SM will be in for a world of pain.

[His Divine Shadow]

Oh, and now for the topic:

The Dark Trooper is more mobile (can fly) and has heavy firepower- a gatling plasma ball type cannon and rocket launchers mounted in the shoulder pauldrons. Space Marine is DEAD.

Isn't the plasma thingy those things on it's chest?
I was under the impression that the gun it has is a heavy blaster cannon?