Tanks vs. Mechs: A Real Challenge

[The Yosemite Bear]

Yes, but the FaKKS have some nasty side effects on the Pilots (Tends to nearly kill them, do so), also Gasraki dumbed down the sensors on the Tanks. Besides while their memory muscles linked directly to pilot's noggin, means that all you need is a little electricity, and you have pan fried FAKKS.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Not unheard of in anime, no, but how well could a building designed for humans accomodate mecha? How would they get to the rooftops in the first place, and, assuming they make it there, would the rooftops be capable of supporting the weight of the mecha in question anyway?

Zakus have jump jets. Though I agree that the smaller suits like Landmates would be better served by hiding

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Argh, clicked "submit" button too soon...
meant to say that smaller mecha are best used for hit and run tactics. nAnd hiding inside buildings whenever large tank squads roll by.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Besides the armour on a Zaku, can dissipate heat rather well, it's shattering characteristics is more consistant with a ceramic material then any composite armour. So I would say the the Hinds and the RPG-7 armed crews should take it.

[Hotfoot]

So is every modern tank.

I've yet to hear of a tank that can survive a hundred-nuke salvo.

You leave out a crucial bit of information here (emphasis mine):

The Zaku-C anti radiation model was designed to survive EMP and assorted radiation.

To which Sea Skimmer replied:

So is every modern tank.

EMP and radiation != ground zero of a nuclear explosion. Your comment makes little sense when put into context. You also neglect to mention the yeilds of the nukes in question, but that's a somewhat different point. The proper query would be concerning the level of protection against an electromagnetic pulse and radiation in modern tanks compared to the Zaku-C, as that was the ability in question.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Besides the armour on a Zaku, can dissipate heat rather well, it's shattering characteristics is more consistant with a ceramic material then any composite armour. So I would say the the Hinds and the RPG-7 armed crews should take it.

Actually, Zaku armor is a ceramic-metal hybrod.

[Sea Skimmer]

So is every modern tank.

I've yet to hear of a tank that can survive a hundred-nuke salvo.

How many mecha can?

[Hotfoot]

Not unheard of in anime, no, but how well could a building designed for humans accomodate mecha? How would they get to the rooftops in the first place, and, assuming they make it there, would the rooftops be capable of supporting the weight of the mecha in question anyway?

Zakus have jump jets. Though I agree that the smaller suits like Landmates would be better served by hiding

Okay, so you've solved the first part of the problem, getting the mecha to the rooftops. Now you've got to deal with the second part of the problem. How well could a NYC rooftop support a mecha, specifically a Zaku, for the example you have provided? Gundam mecha are heavy and large, and assuming they jump jet into position, they've got to land, which usually means letting gravity take control for a little trip into freefall acceleration or use the jumpjets to cushion the descent. Either way, it can't help the support issue.

meant to say that smaller mecha are best used for hit and run tactics. nAnd hiding inside buildings whenever large tank squads roll by.

Yes, but still that wouldn't be a terribly wonderful option. Just better than trying to take the rooftops. It's like trying to kill someone with a spoon and trying to kill someone with a fork. You'll have better luck with the fork, but that's not saying much.

[Dark Hellion]

Hotfoot the average office building ways 1 million tons, its not gonna notice an extra 100 on its roof.

[Kuja]

How many mecha can?

None AFAIK, but see below.

EMP and radiation != ground zero of a nuclear explosion. Your comment makes little sense when put into context. You also neglect to mention the yeilds of the nukes in question, but that's a somewhat different point. The proper query would be concerning the level of protection against an electromagnetic pulse and radiation in modern tanks compared to the Zaku-C, as that was the ability in question.

I know my argument wasn't right on, but this was my point: these Zakus tote nukes and can fire them on a whim, whereas according to Shep's earlier arguments and the forces list, the modern forces don't have them and have to rely on nuclear missiles, which are barred from use by the rules of the engagement. Since the foces list stated any mecha from the OYW, that means nuke-toting Zakus are allowed. As a result, this is a battle the conventional CANNOT win, as the Zakus will begin and end the fighting by pelting them with nukes.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Hotfoot the average office building ways 1 million tons, its not gonna notice an extra 100 on its roof.

You idiot! It's not the weight of the building, it's the stress the roof can support! 80 tons of weight on a surface rated for 8 will DEFINITELY destroy it!

A possible solution would be to use the roofs as temporary firing points, i.e jump up, shoot, jump down to other side, etc.

[Hotfoot]

How many mecha can?

None AFAIK, but see below.

I know my argument wasn't right on, but this was my point: these Zakus tote nukes and can fire them on a whim, whereas according to Shep's earlier arguments and the forces list, the modern forces don't have them and have to rely on nuclear missiles, which are barred from use by the rules of the engagement. Since the foces list stated any mecha from the OYW, that means nuke-toting Zakus are allowed. As a result, this is a battle the conventional CANNOT win, as the Zakus will begin and end the fighting by pelting them with nukes.

Still, the question of the yeild comes to mind. Meanwhile, there is still the fact that the modern military has created man-portable nukes. The US Army even developed nuclear artillery rounds. We have suitcase nukes, even. The original post never limited the armament of the conventional modern forces either, so we can give both sides nukes if you want your nuke-wielding Zakus. It is now a moot point, as neither side can win, M.A.D. Thank you for playing, please insert $1.00 to continue.

[Hotfoot]

Hotfoot the average office building ways 1 million tons, its not gonna notice an extra 100 on its roof.

You idiot! It's not the weight of the building, it's the stress the roof can support! 80 tons of weight on a surface rated for 8 will DEFINITELY destroy it!

Thank you.

A possible solution would be to use the roofs as temporary firing points, i.e jump up, shoot, jump down to other side, etc.

Better to use them as cover, I think. Besides, if you're on top of a building, that just means that you're an easy target for the Hinds, as they can all see you.

[Kuja]

Still, the question of the yeild comes to mind.

True. AFAIK, there's no difference between modern and Gundam-era nukes.

Meanwhile, there is still the fact that the modern military has created man-portable nukes. The US Army even developed nuclear artillery rounds. We have suitcase nukes, even. The original post never limited the armament of the conventional modern forces either, so we can give both sides nukes if you want your nuke-wielding Zakus. It is now a moot point, as neither side can win, M.A.D. Thank you for playing, please insert $1.00 to continue.

...how often are they fielded? Have you ever seen footage of them being used in combat? Have you ever heard of tanks and hinds charging an enemy poition firing nukes? No? Shut your mouth, then. Just becuase they've been developed doesn't mean they're ready to be mass-produced and thrown by the dozen into a battle, as the Zakus did during the Battle of Loum and the One-Week Battle.

[Sea Skimmer]

Still, the question of the yeild comes to mind.

True. AFAIK, there's no difference between modern and Gundam-era nukes.

Meanwhile, there is still the fact that the modern military has created man-portable nukes. The US Army even developed nuclear artillery rounds. We have suitcase nukes, even. The original post never limited the armament of the conventional modern forces either, so we can give both sides nukes if you want your nuke-wielding Zakus. It is now a moot point, as neither side can win, M.A.D. Thank you for playing, please insert $1.00 to continue.

...how often are they fielded? Have you ever seen footage of them being used in combat? Have you ever heard of tanks and hinds charging an enemy poition firing nukes? No? Shut your mouth, then. Just becuase they've been developed doesn't mean they're ready to be mass-produced and thrown by the dozen into a battle, as the Zakus did during the Battle of Loum and the One-Week Battle.

155,152,203,160 and about six or seven other calibers of nuclear artillery rounds where massed produced. As where MANPAD nukes, light weight aircraft weapons, Davy Crocket warheads and many others that would be available to a divisional sized force, company in some cases. The US and Russian weren't planning on throwing them into action by the dozens, it was more like thousands. The US built something like 3,000 Davy Crocket warheads, on top of its huge ADM stockpile and heaps of atomic shells. The Russian had a similar stock, thousands of warheads, artillery, heavy mortar, ADM ect built and deployed. A good deal of there plans called for the issue of ADM's to units as small as Special Forces squads to destroy ports, airfields and of course NATO's own battle field nuclear weapons. That’s why both sides had so many, they expect to burn through them like shotgun shells and also to lose much of there stocks in the opening exchange.

Try again comrade

[MKSheppard]

Just becuase they've been developed doesn't mean they're ready to be mass-produced and thrown by the dozen into a battle, as the Zakus did during the Battle of Loum and the One-Week Battle.

jesus christ, will someone SHOW this guy the calcs of the megatonnage
that would have been thrown around Germany if WW3 had ever
happened?

[Kuja]

*snip*

OK, then.

jesus christ, will someone SHOW this guy the calcs of the megatonnage
that would have been thrown around Germany if WW3 had ever
happened?

Shep,

1. The Zakus have nukes in the same range
2. WW3 didn't happen. Get over it.

[MKSheppard]

2. WW3 didn't happen. Get over it.

You don't understand do you? NATO and the Warsaw Pact had plans
that would have made your pathetic One-Week War look puny with
thousands of tac nukes flying all over the battlefield, and men and
equipment were expected to FIGHT in this radiation/EMP soaked
battlefield...why do you think Military computer chips are so goddamn
expensive? They're EMP shielded.

[Kuja]

2. WW3 didn't happen. Get over it.

You don't understand do you? NATO and the Warsaw Pact had plans
that would have made your pathetic One-Week War look puny with
thousands of tac nukes flying all over the battlefield, and men and
equipment were expected to FIGHT in this radiation/EMP soaked
battlefield...why do you think Military computer chips are so goddamn
expensive? They're EMP shielded.

Seven billion died in the One Year War because the Zeon and Federation used exactly the tactics you're describing, and then some.

And we'll see what your fancy schmany chips do when they're exposed to Minovsky particles.

[MKSheppard]

Seven billion died in the One Year War because the Zeon and Federation used exactly the tactics you're describing, and then some.

And we'll see what your fancy schmany chips do when they're exposed to Minovsky particles.

Actually, I'd like to see Minovosky particles affect literally a 80286 CPU...
or even a 80486 CPU...cuz that's the level of power you find in modern
military equipment.

The B-2 Spirit's cockpit area is completely enclosed in a Faraday cage;
you could set off a EMP burst next to it, and it'd keep on flying normally.

[Howedar]

The Mech forces have access to an assload of nukes. They probably win.

However, it is somewhat telling that the Mech advocates need to give the enourmously larger and more expensive (and therefore fewer for given resources) Mechs numerical parity with dirt-cheap T-90s, and moreover toss nukes into the mix, on the Mech side only.

Is someone suffering from penis envy?

[SylasGaunt]

While I certainly don't see Zaku's and such heading onto the rooftops, roofs and building interiors are going to be just dandy places for Fakes to launch ambushes from.

I don't really remember how big the Fuchikoma's are so I won't comment on them, and the Landmates are a bit large to be moving through building interior's, so they should probably stick to alleyways.

[Kuja]

Actually, I'd like to see Minovosky particles affect literally a 80286 CPU...
or even a 80486 CPU...cuz that's the level of power you find in modern
military equipment.

Power in a comp doesn't matter. Minovsky particles disrupt waves from even the most powerful computer transmitters.

The B-2 Spirit's cockpit area is completely enclosed in a Faraday cage;
you could set off a EMP burst next to it, and it'd keep on flying normally.

You can set and EMP off next to a Musai cruiser and it worldn't notice it either. Whoopee. All OYW comps are designed to deal with EMPs.

[SWPIGWANG]

Minovsky particles disrupt waves from even the most powerful computer transmitters.

WTF?

[MKSheppard]

Power in a comp doesn't matter. Minovsky particles disrupt waves from even the most powerful computer transmitters.

Can someone give me a clear explanation of what the fuck this goddamned
particle of the week for Gundam is?

First I hear it affects radar, then IR, then blah blah blah...if that's true
then how the fuck do Gundams stay the fuck up without falling over
without advanced computer correcting stabilizers to keep them upright?