Cowboy Bebop vs Firefly

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-03 02:53pm

--7) Faye Valentine
8 ) The Bebop
9) Spike--

Granted, but theres ALWAYS teh obligatory hot chick, badass motherfucker, and cool spaceship. Theres rarely the cute little androgynous computer whiz and the brainy welsh corgi that makes humans look stupid.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-03 02:55pm

--11) The ending.

Now I may not care much for Bebop, but the ending kicked ass, especially since they had most of the series steadily building to that point.
--

Yes, too few shows will actually do what Bebop did. Thats the mark of good writing.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-03 03:01pm

kojikun wrote:--7) Faye Valentine
8 ) The Bebop
9) Spike--

Granted, but theres ALWAYS teh obligatory hot chick, badass motherfucker, and cool spaceship. Theres rarely the cute little androgynous computer whiz and the brainy welsh corgi that makes humans look stupid. :)

That's certainly true but so few pull it off with the kind of style that Cowboy Bebop did. I mean you can have those (or at least try for them) but few get them like Bebop did.

And damn does that ending kick ass.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-03 03:24pm

You know, it doesn't always take place out on the frontier moons. The crew has been in cities, raided hospitals, scavenged wrecks, fought their way through a space station, been stranded in the middle of space and been stalked by a ruthless bounty hunter.

Speaking of which, download 'Objects in Space', watch it, full screen, high quality, with the lights turned off, and honestly tell me it is not one of the most dramatic pieces of work you have ever seen.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-03 03:27pm

Hemlock: That may be so, but the whole cowboy theme is too overdone. No spaceship is going to have wooden tables and cornucopias of food, let alone wooden FLOORS. I'll download the episode. My major problem with the show is the setting really. The western theme is not properly made to work in Firefly.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-03 03:30pm

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Hemlock: That may be so, but the whole cowboy theme is too overdone. No spaceship is going to have wooden tables and cornucopias of food, let alone wooden FLOORS. I'll download the episode. My major problem with the show is the setting really. The western theme is not properly made to work in Firefly.

I liked it. Serenity is a transport ship, not a warship or junker, so the crew has some luxuries. The floors of the cargo bay, infirmary, and the bridge are metal; the only wooden floor I noticed was in the dining area.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-01-03 05:33pm

Firefly is a huge honking rip-off of Cowboy Bepop, among other animes and shows. It even has a naked chick in a box ala Outlaw Star. I would have no problem if the poser was buried.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-03 05:43pm

Firefly is a huge honking rip-off of Cowboy Bepop, among other animes and shows. It even has a naked chick in a box ala Outlaw Star. I would have no problem if the poser was buried.

Oh, cryogenic freezing is so very ripped off. I mean, there's no other sci-fi that has cryogenic storage! I mean, GOD! Futurama, Starcraft- they must ALL be ripping off anime! It's the only explanation!

Please point out how Cowboy Bebop or Firefly are even remotely similar. The crew of Serenity are not bounty hunters. The Bebop is not housing two fugitives, one of whom is a powerful psychic. The list goes on.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-01-03 05:43pm

I think Firefly COULD have been better. My biggest gripe about it was the direction. *shudder* Too much cameral movement.

CB is 26 episodes telling one single story with other stories wrapped around it. It had drama, comedy, love, suspense, action... everything you'd want in a story. It's not a western. It's a futuristic look at how the galaxy COULD be.

Firefly needed work. I liked it for the most part, but it still needed LOTS of work. It had the western theme down, but the futurism wasn't all that good.

Shadowhawk · Post by **Shadowhawk** » 2003-01-03 05:44pm

Of course, if you had actually watched Firefly, you would have realized it has extremely little in common with either Bebop or Outlaw Star.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-03 05:45pm

I think Firefly COULD have been better. My biggest gripe about it was the direction. *shudder* Too much cameral movement.

Odd. The camera angles were one of my favorite part.

Firefly needed work. I liked it for the most part, but it still needed LOTS of work. It had the western theme down, but the futurism wasn't all that good.

I don't think 'futurism' was the point. It's not a galaxy-spanning epic, a mirror into the future. It's the story of a crew of outcasts, fugitives, and bitter men(for the most part) trying to make a living.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-03 05:53pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
Firefly needed work. I liked it for the most part, but it still needed LOTS of work. It had the western theme down, but the futurism wasn't all that good.
I don't think 'futurism' was the point. It's not a galaxy-spanning epic, a mirror into the future. It's the story of a crew of outcasts, fugitives, and bitter men(for the most part) trying to make a living.

If you want to sell it as a vision of the future, futurism is part of that. It really failed to sell me on that vision. It was cool but the two halves, western and sci-fi never quite meshed seamlessly.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-03 05:56pm

If you want to sell it as a vision of the future, futurism is part of that. It really failed to sell me on that vision. It was cool but the two halves, western and sci-fi never quite meshed seamlessly

Well, it really depends where they are at the time. The inner worlds are more futuristic, while the outlying frontier moons are more western.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-03 05:59pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
If you want to sell it as a vision of the future, futurism is part of that. It really failed to sell me on that vision. It was cool but the two halves, western and sci-fi never quite meshed seamlessly
Well, it really depends where they are at the time. The inner worlds are more futuristic, while the outlying frontier moons are more western.

It's not the look. It's the integration. Firefly, to me, always seem to be western and sci fi. The two halves weren't well integrated. They felt too different and certainly not a coherent whole.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-01-03 06:22pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
I think Firefly COULD have been better. My biggest gripe about it was the direction. *shudder* Too much cameral movement.
Odd. The camera angles were one of my favorite part.

Did I say angles? No. I said MOVEMENT. The camera MOVED a lot.

Firefly needed work. I liked it for the most part, but it still needed LOTS of work. It had the western theme down, but the futurism wasn't all that good.
I don't think 'futurism' was the point. It's not a galaxy-spanning epic, a mirror into the future. It's the story of a crew of outcasts, fugitives, and bitter men(for the most part) trying to make a living.

If it had been shown in order CORRECTLY it might have looked a bit better. The story the way it was shown was hard to follow. Each episode wasn't half bad, but didn't fit together with the others.... because Fox was stupid.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-03 06:22pm

Hemlock, why western? I see no reason for that to be the case. The likelihood for that many planets to be perfect for earthlings yet so sparesely populated is complete bullshit. Any human population on those planets, even if they ARE perfect earthlike planets, would bring sufficient technology and would have plenty of commerce going on that they wouldn't be living in the conditions they were.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-03 06:32pm

Cowboy Bebop > 99% of sci-fi today or any TV for that matter.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-03 09:55pm

Did I say angles? No. I said MOVEMENT. The camera MOVED a lot.

Sorta what I meant. Poor phrasing on my part.

If it had been shown in order CORRECTLY it might have looked a bit better. The story the way it was shown was hard to follow. Each episode wasn't half bad, but didn't fit together with the others.... because Fox was stupid.

Yep. Firefly's poor ratings can be laid partially upon their stupidity.

Hemlock, why western? I see no reason for that to be the case. The likelihood for that many planets to be perfect for earthlings yet so sparesely populated is complete bullshit. Any human population on those planets, even if they ARE perfect earthlike planets, would bring sufficient technology and would have plenty of commerce going on that they wouldn't be living in the conditions they were.

They weren't perfect eartlike planets; they're moons, and didn't you catch the bit in the beginning of every single episode about them 'terraforming' countless new worlds?

There was also a war, which was likewise explained in the beginning of every episode, and the Alliance doesn't really give a shit about the defeated outer colonies.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-01-03 10:00pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
Did I say angles? No. I said MOVEMENT. The camera MOVED a lot.
Sorta what I meant. Poor phrasing on my part.

Still, the camera bounced around a lot. I can't see as it is, but that just made it worse and made me dizzy.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-01-03 10:33pm

I only was able to tune in one episode of Firefly here in Yosemite.

However, in terms of Camera movement, it depends, in most cases the camera should be bolted down, it's hard to focus on a handheld.

However if the flow of the action requires movement it's good (Steven Spielberg's handling of Jaws othertimes it just gives people headaches such as when they are trying to make it look like "Cops"[/u]

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-03 10:49pm

--They weren't perfect eartlike planets; they're moons,--

Ah ok. But that makes it even less likely. Moons are very rarely of terrestrial construction, if SolSys is any indication. Most, while having suitable enough gravity, are simply not made of the proper materials, rather theyre very frequently made of ice and could not be made to support life. But theres a few, true. But thats still no excuse for the western motif of all of those little colonies.

--and didn't you catch the bit in the beginning of every single episode about them 'terraforming' countless new worlds?--

Nope. Must have missed it. Was it vocalised? Doesnt changet he western thing.

--There was also a war, which was likewise explained in the beginning of every episode, and the Alliance doesn't really give a shit about the defeated outer colonies.--

Don't see how that pertains to anything. The Alliance may or may not care about the outer colonies, but the companies would very easilly sell to them (with restrictions, ofcourse, but certainly not to the extent that would make them like the west in 1850).

BTW Hemlock, I watched Objects in Space. That was on really good episode. Could have suffered from some better music tho. They should have Kanno to score the series. Whats with the backwards english, tho? They sound like they grew up in the south minus the accent.

Well.. here I am. ::drifts::

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-01-03 11:01pm

Firefly struck me as working it's ass off to get some sort of super-low tech setting with a spaceship. Which is painfully illogical(If you can make a colony ship, why the fuck are you immediately retarding to the 1850's?), and detracted from the experience. So Bebop gets my vote.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-03 11:10pm

Nope. Must have missed it. Was it vocalised? Doesnt changet he western thing

.

Yep. Vocalized at the beginning.

Don't see how that pertains to anything. The Alliance may or may not care about the outer colonies, but the companies would very easilly sell to them (with restrictions, ofcourse, but certainly not to the extent that would make them like the west in 1850).

Then why didn't the companies in 1850 sell to the west?

BTW Hemlock, I watched Objects in Space. That was on really good episode. Could have suffered from some better music tho. They should have Kanno to score the series. Whats with the backwards english, tho? They sound like they grew up in the south minus the accent.

Well, River, Simon, and Book all speak perfect English, and they're the most educated, so I think it's merely character background. They all speak Mandarin, too.

Well.. here I am. ::drifts::

An object in space.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-03 11:14pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
Don't see how that pertains to anything. The Alliance may or may not care about the outer colonies, but the companies would very easilly sell to them (with restrictions, ofcourse, but certainly not to the extent that would make them like the west in 1850).
Then why didn't the companies in 1850 sell to the west?

They were, as much as they could. But they didn't sell more advaced tech because it wasn't around. To render a spacve faring society to 1850's levels in place is rather silly. They really didn't do well enough integrating them in a semi-reasonable manner.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-03 11:16pm

They were, as much as they could. But they didn't sell more advaced tech because it wasn't around. To render a spacve faring society to 1850's levels in place is rather silly. They really didn't do well enough integrating them in a semi-reasonable manner.

Well, think about it. Tightly controlling 'Alliance'. Probably extremely high tariffs. In 'The Train Job' a sheriff says 'The Alliance just dumped us out here and lets us fend for ourselves. Only got what we can get for ourselves" or something to that effect, implying that the Alliance controls shipping and trading. The fact that Serenity is often smuggling for rich business men helps imply this.