[spoilers] The Scimitar dropped in the B5 universe

[Captain Kruger]

As for the Omega's, fusion tipped missiles fired in the general direction of where the cloaked Schimitar is. It would be more fun if they were Omega X's

Don't forget that keeping a missile/torpedo target lock on a cloaked vessel is a royal bitch. Note the constant misses by the E-E in Nemesis. After all, they expended their entire torpedo payload, roughly 300 rounds. Christ, even the Scimitar couldn't have survived if any significant percentage of those rounds had hit.

[NecronLord]

As for the Omega's, fusion tipped missiles fired in the general direction of where the cloaked Schimitar is. It would be more fun if they were Omega X's

Don't forget that keeping a missile/torpedo target lock on a cloaked vessel is a royal bitch. Note the constant misses by the E-E in Nemesis. After all, they expended their entire torpedo payload, roughly 300 rounds. Christ, even the Scimitar couldn't have survived if any significant percentage of those rounds had hit.

Not to mention if the commander of the Schem is smart he'll fire off a volley, and warp-reposition immiditeley.

[Solid Snake]

Fine. I concede...

I question how they assembled the schimitar at a secret base. The whole idea of that ship existing in the first place is stupid.

[NecronLord]

It is indeed a stupid idea on the part of the writers.

[Solid Snake]

A couple of Whitestars, maybe? I dunno.

[Darth Wong]

Technobabble schemes for firing off volleys and instantly warp-maneuvering are a bit silly in light of the fact that they didn't actually accomplish this in STN, aren't they?

Besides, missiles are actually BETTER than beam weapons at blind-firing toward the general vicinity of a target. A timed detonation would have an area-effect, so they don't need a direct hit.

[NecronLord]

Technobabble schemes for firing off volleys and instantly warp-maneuvering are a bit silly in light of the fact that they didn't actually accomplish this in STN, aren't they?

It's not a technobabble scheme, it is common sense. Shinzon is a retard. He approaches within a few hundred meters of the enterprise decloaks and gets rammed. These are not the actions of a competent commander. This is assuming a competant comander.

[Connor MacLeod]

Minbari ships use antimatter for power.

Prove it, only source we have says fusion. Anything else is pure fan wank.

B5 Wars credits the Minbari with employing an "Antimatter converter" - a weapon that converts part of the target's hull into antimatter. I could be wrong but such a process should work as a power source as well (even if not onboard the ship, it would provide a means of creating antimatter)

Sierra also credited the Sharlin with an antimatter cannon in the now-defunct B5 space sim game, according to some of the older website material.

[Connor MacLeod]

Whats your source that says nuclear fusion? And matter/antimatter collisions can be considered fusion

As ender said, nice dodge. Fusion was stated in "Points of Departure" and the Minbari are known to use FUSION cannons (which would point to some use of fusion power, I might add.)

I'm a bit curious on your source for "antimatter as well, since I doubt you have the sources I have when it comes to B5.

[Ender]

Minbari ships use antimatter for power.

Prove it, only source we have says fusion. Anything else is pure fan wank.

B5 Wars credits the Minbari with employing an "Antimatter converter" - a weapon that converts part of the target's hull into antimatter. I could be wrong but such a process should work as a power source as well (even if not onboard the ship, it would provide a means of creating antimatter)

Sierra also credited the Sharlin with an antimatter cannon in the now-defunct B5 space sim game, according to some of the older website material.

Yes, and the show overrides it by saying that it has neutron cannons and fusion lasers.

[Connor MacLeod]

1.) What is the stated weapons range on the Scimitar? As I recall, most EFFECTIVE Federation weapons ranges tend to be a few km at best

2.) What other forms of EW does the scimitar have (Are the romulans even familiar with the concept?) Its possible B5 might have an advantage where EW is concerned (particularily the Minbari)

3.) I'd be hesitant to pull warp tactics, since the automatic B5 responser would be jump point tactics (not neccearily "jumping out next to the Scimitar" - but they can position forces inside hyperspace with a "decoy" or two ready in case of attack.

[Connor MacLeod]

Yes, and the show overrides it by saying that it has neutron cannons and fusion lasers.

Err... how does "having neutron and fusion cannons" override the fact they have antimatter technology? They stopped using the AM converter because it was far shorter ranged than the N eutron cannon (about 1/4 the range) and it has a slower recharge time (and no interception capability) the way fusion cannons do (it also sucks as an antifighter weapon.)

You can power a neutron cannon on antimatter, and fusion can be catalyzed by antimatter.

[Ender]

I thought you were claiming that the Sharlin had an antimatter converter, but rereading, that is wrong. disregard the above then.

[Connor MacLeod]

I thought you were claiming that the Sharlin had an antimatter converter, but rereading, that is wrong. disregard the above then.

No. I suppose it could be equipped with one, but it wouldnt be as good as the neutron laser.

BTW I suspect you were referring to "Legacies" where the screenshot lists "neutron cannons and fusion lasers." Thats only for the smaller class of War Cruiser. There's at least one larger class thats a kilometer or so in length (which is probably the Sharlin class, if anything.)

[Connor MacLeod]

I should also point out that the Minbari Sharlin *could* have antimatter weapons (or there might be variants that do possess them) since there are several classes of War cruiser based on that hull configuration.

[Solid Snake]

Besides, missiles are actually BETTER than beam weapons at blind-firing toward the general vicinity of a target. A timed detonation would have an area-effect, so they don't need a direct hit.

Well, thats what i meant in the first place. Isnt it common sense that a nuclear missile would effect a large area?

[weemadando]

With all the talk of "competant commanders", are we assuming an ST competent commander (sit about 500m away, try not to maneuvre and fire), or a genuine competent commander?

Anyhow, I think that any decent sized YR fleet will take it out. They'll take losses, but eventually it'll go down.

[NecronLord]

With all the talk of "competant commanders", are we assuming an ST competent commander (sit about 500m away, try not to maneuvre and fire), or a genuine competent commander?

It's generally assumed to be true competence.

[Vejut]

Necron lord: Can they just transport crew out (or failing that, bombs in...)? That assumes any ECM the YR ship has doesn't block transporters, that the hull doesn't, and that you are in range. I question all of these: transporteres are very vulnerable to E-M (cannon database has at least 6 instances of sensors blocked by very low intensity electromagnetism.), a bakers dozen minerals (common minerals at that, including heavy metals) block transport and sensors, and most combats we see occour at short range, even with something like cloak which allows you great freedom to pick the range, or with immobile targets (this is important because if you could just do something like transport a bomb next to your target at longer range than your weapons, why use the weapons). Also, why transport the crew out at all? Blowing it up will take less time, and it's not like they can hurt you (until they start bringing up those really big Narn nuclear weapons....)

Also, Necron, I believe Sir Wong is saying that they quite possibly cannot do the tactics you are suggesting, as it would have been a very good thing to do in STN (for that matter, probably a reasonable idea even without a cloak, if ships could...)

Another possiblity is also that Shinzon is not an idiot, and he needed to get that close and decloak for some reason (weapons power drain, or whatever...)

Anyone know if the flaws of the last Fire-when-cloaked system still stand? That could even it up...

But I agree with everyone else: ST tech and weapons are way above B5 tech and weapons, so it's going to take some doing to stop the ship, if they even can...

[NecronLord]

Necron lord: Can they just transport crew out (or failing that, bombs in...)? That assumes any ECM the YR ship has doesn't block transporters, that the hull doesn't, and that you are in range. I question all of these: transporteres are very vulnerable to E-M (cannon database has at least 6 instances of sensors blocked by very low intensity electromagnetism.), a bakers dozen minerals (common minerals at that, including heavy metals) block transport and sensors, and most combats we see occour at short range, even with something like cloak which allows you great freedom to pick the range, or with immobile targets (this is important because if you could just do something like transport a bomb next to your target at longer range than your weapons, why use the weapons). Also, why transport the crew out at all? Blowing it up will take less time, and it's not like they can hurt you (until they start bringing up those really big Narn nuclear weapons....)

Have you seen Nemesis? The Shimitar can pick out and site to site transport picard from the enterprise, at a significantly faster speed than the federation transporters. It's systems are clearly superior. They can and do beam an individual from sickbay (fairly deep within the enterprise IIRC, no windows and stated as being on one of the middle decks in FC) The romulan transporters can beam to and from other ships without difficulty. The reason for suggesting this tactic is to gain intelligence data, and if deserted ships for removing potentially useful materials from. Also why would the b5 forces ECM when they can detect no enemy?

Also, Necron, I believe Sir Wong is saying that they quite possibly cannot do the tactics you are suggesting, as it would have been a very good thing to do in STN (for that matter, probably a reasonable idea even without a cloak, if ships could...)

To show off the SFX, to follow the conventions Whatever it was, we have seen them fire at far greater range than in STX. Also I may add that shinpad needs picard alive to live, and as such seems to be going easy on the enterprise, The two Valdores were dispatched in very short order.

Another possiblity is also that Shinzon is not an idiot, and he needed to get that close and decloak for some reason (weapons power drain, or whatever...)

Picard "He wants to look me in the eye." Sounds stupid to me.

Anyone know if the flaws of the last Fire-when-cloaked system still stand? That could even it up...

Probably not, "It could pass within ten metres of every ship in starfleet and they'd never notice it." Uncertain though

[Uraniun235]

They seemed to be able to guess where the Scimitar is based on shield impacts or some such nonsense... otherwise they'd never have hit it.

Also, Necron, I believe Sir Wong is saying that they quite possibly cannot do the tactics you are suggesting, as it would have been a very good thing to do in STN (for that matter, probably a reasonable idea even without a cloak, if ships could...)

So, wait, first we charge them with incompetence, then we say that said incompetence defines the upper limits of their hardware?

Does anyone else think that a little odd? Wouldn't that be somewhat like saying a cocky teenager who's never flown before could be used as an accurate judge of the capabilities of a new fighter jet?

Well, thats what i meant in the first place. Isnt it common sense that a nuclear missile would effect a large area?

Yes, but the amount of energy recieved by the Scimitar would decrease rapidly with range from the detonation... you only have so much energy and you're spreading it over three dimensions. (which is why multiple smaller nukes are typically better than one massive huge nuke) I'd imagine it'd take a *near* miss to do any damage, and not just blindly firing off nukes.