Most infulential Fantasy Writer

[Stormbringer]

Well he was an Oxford English professor, I also hear they have found a hidden book of his in some old room at one of the colleges there too, to be published later this year.

Really? Hmmmm, I can see a nasty lawsuit over that one. Christopher Tolkien is very protective of his dad's works.

In anycase, The Lord of the Rings was harder for me to get into unlike The Chronicles of Narnia. I'm still trying to read Fellowship of the Ring since I gave up just before the film came out.

A good way to read Lord of the Rings is to start with The Hobbit and then continue on to The Fellowship of the Ring. You'll understand some of the background a little better and it helps a lot in getting into Lord of the Rings.

[Skelron]

J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. Oh look, they were both close mates!

Guess great minds do think alike.

Only in terms of fiction. CS Lewis was also a Christian apologist and liked making stupid arguments

And Tolkien was the guy who Reaffirmed Lewis faith, Lewis was for a long time unsure what he belived in and very ceptical of the faith he'd been brought up in, due to his life experiances. Tolkien helped him overcome these doubts. So they are still alike in the faith aspect.

[Sriad]

J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. Oh look, they were both close mates!

Guess great minds do think alike.

Only in terms of fiction. CS Lewis was also a Christian apologist and liked making stupid arguments

And Tolkien was the guy who Reaffirmed Lewis faith, Lewis was for a long time unsure what he belived in and very ceptical of the faith he'd been brought up in, due to his life experiances. Tolkien helped him overcome these doubts. So they are still alike in the faith aspect.

To be fair to Lewis he was really a Christian Mystic. Some parts of Perelandra read like evangelical hand jobs, though.

[Captain tycho]

Well, if Tolkien is considered the "grandfather" of fantasy writers, I'm glad that everyone after him learned how to WRITE. I can't read Tolkien. However, what about Homer? The Oddesy? The Anead (sp!)? That is true fantasy... oh, and don't forget Beowulf. The original.

I think Tolkien's Language problem (and it is confusing) Is not that he didn't know how to write it was that he knew language too well. He knew the 100% correct useage of words, the dictionary definitions, to a level that the average reader dosn't... After all he was the professor of language at Oxford, So I don't think the criticism is quite accurate.... Oh and in case no one can guess I too vote Tolkien. (Apart from anything else I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the Hobbit and LotR have shaped a large part of the person I am today. My Hobbies and interests all stem from an early introduction to the stories through my dad.

I believe Tolkien worte that way to make it seem more like the story was written by someone acutally in Middle-Earth, in the styles they would have used. I read the Hobbit, and the writing style in that varies greatly (origianlly, he intended to give it as an oral presenteation, like a bed time story or some such.)

[Lord Pounder]

For a start no bastard here should slag of Lewis, he was born in my area and we irish look after our own.

Second of all J R R Tolkien is the man who made fantasy what it is, if you look at ANY fantasy you will see Tolkiens work mirrored. All wizards have the look of Gandalf or Sauraman, All elves are now archers like Legolis, Dwarves nearly all take after Gimly etc.

Lewis's work was also well written though meant for a younger audience. I head that the Cronicles of Narnia are next in line for a big screen outting.

[Peregrin Toker]

All wizards have the look of Gandalf or Sauraman,

I thought that the appearance of modern fantasy wizards was modelled not upon Gandalf and Saruman, but upon the astrologers of ancient Persia??

[Stormbringer]

All wizards have the look of Gandalf or Sauraman,

I thought that the appearance of modern fantasy wizards was modelled not upon Gandalf and Saruman, but upon the astrologers of ancient Persia??

There seems to be two archetypes when it comes to wizards today. The classical Merlin/Gandalf/Saruman type and the cloaked & hooded "dark wizard". The "Dark" Wizard achretype is probably the one based on Persian mystics.

[Hocho]

Tolkien's had major influence on a lot of modern fantasy, but by no means all. For example, Gemmell uses pretty much nothing of Tolkien. For another example, look at Jordan; he's widely criticized as ripping off Tolkien. Read the books, however, and it's obvious that he's ripped off Frank Herbert instead.

[SyntaxVorlon]

Tolkien was the bomb but really all he did was reinvent beowulf with a far greater more epic and peopled story.
But Beowulf was the basis for a great deal of his characters, smaug, the balrog, though we never meet its mommy. The warrior kings and valiance over strategy warriors, those who can through a dwarf 20 ft then jump just as far. All of it is basically based in old mythology of the germanic tribes. Though I have not read the epic of seigfreid(or seigmund) I'm sure you could find parallels there as well.

[Peregrin Toker]

SyntaxVorlon,

Tolkien was the bomb but really all he did was reinvent beowulf with a far greater more epic and peopled story.
But Beowulf was the basis for a great deal of his characters, smaug, the balrog, though we never meet its mommy. The warrior kings and valiance over strategy warriors, those who can through a dwarf 20 ft then jump just as far. All of it is basically based in old mythology of the germanic tribes. Though I have not read the epic of seigfreid(or seigmund) I'm sure you could find parallels there as well.

If I got it right, LoTR wasn't based upon Beowulf, but upon the epic Niebelungenlied - and the opera based upon it. (For example, the One Ring To Rule Them All is clearly based upon the ring which the entire Niebelungenlied revolves around)

There are also parallels to Dark Ages Europe - the Orcs are modelled upon the Huns, for example, and Sauron is very similar to King Attila.

Sauron, again, has influenced other evil demigods such as Nagash and Be'lakor (Warhammer), Zurra (Bal-Sagoth universe) and countless others....


Stormbringer,

There seems to be two archetypes when it comes to wizards today. The classical Merlin/Gandalf/Saruman type and the cloaked & hooded "dark wizard". The "Dark" Wizard achretype is probably the one based on Persian mystics.

According to an illustration in a history book I have, the Persian mystics had long which were blue or black, tall pointy hats and very long beards.

[The Dark]

Tolkien set all the rules for fantasy that we follow now. D&D wouldn't exist without the ideas of Tolkien. We have to remember that wizards with pointy hats is a recent fantasy phenomenon brought on by Tolkien,

Tolkien's wizards are never mentioned as having pointy hats (or any hats at all), and only Gandalf is noted as having white hair (Saruman's hair is black).

the whole idea of orcs, elves, halflings, dwarves, the way they act are all inspired by Tolkien and the world he created.

Actually, much of the elves and dwarves are taken from Norse mythos. The orcs and halflings I don't know about originality.

His fantasy world lived and breathed, it had HISTORY. When you read it you really felt that there was so much more going on, so much backstory to know. It remians one of the pinacles of modern literarure in my mind.

Now THIS I can agree with completely.

[Skelron]

Tolkien set all the rules for fantasy that we follow now. D&D wouldn't exist without the ideas of Tolkien. We have to remember that wizards with pointy hats is a recent fantasy phenomenon brought on by Tolkien,

Tolkien's wizards are never mentioned as having pointy hats (or any hats at all), and only Gandalf is noted as having white hair (Saruman's hair is black).

Perhaps, but I believe many of the Drawings by artists gave Gandalf a pointed hat, and somehow the image stuck. I know I've always imagined him to have one, the image of Gandalf with a pointy hat is old. It may not come from Tolkien directly but....

[Stormbringer]

Tolkien set all the rules for fantasy that we follow now. D&D wouldn't exist without the ideas of Tolkien. We have to remember that wizards with pointy hats is a recent fantasy phenomenon brought on by Tolkien,

Tolkien's wizards are never mentioned as having pointy hats (or any hats at all), and only Gandalf is noted as having white hair (Saruman's hair is black).

You are right about Saruman, but Gandalf did have a pointy hat. It's in the hobbit. He's a got a pointy blue-grey hat.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Remember, though, that Tolkien, and the Beowulf-Niebelungenlied influence, is only on the West, and the areas we've in turn influenced. One of the greatest works of epic literature, and like the works of Homer, based off of a true story, is known primarily to the East, and was read in the languages of China, Indochina, and Japan before it was translated into English. That is the San-kuo chih t'ung-su yen-i, the shorter and popular version being the San-kuo chih yen-i, or "Elaborations on Three Kingdoms", which we know as the Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

I'm currently reading it, and it certainly lives up to its reputation.

Here is the opening line:

"Empires wax and wane; states cleave asunder and coalesce."

Considering the first English translation was only in the 20th century, one ought give it due consideration.

Here's a line of verse from it; consider it more due encouragement for you all to get to reading:

Tho' fierce as tigers soldiers be,
Battles are won by strategy.
A hero comes; he gains renown,
Already destined for a crown.

[The_Nice_Guy]

If you liked RoTK, then you should read ShuiHuJuan, Water Margin, another of the four classics.

The endings of both stories, and for Red Mansion Dreams(another of the four classics) are tragic, and Water Margin's ending was the most gut wrenching of all.

I'm still trying to wade through the original chinese version of SanGuo. Ugh.

The Nice Guy

[macman]

J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. Oh look, they were both close mates!

Guess great minds do think alike.

Only in terms of fiction. CS Lewis was also a Christian apologist and liked making stupid arguments

These is alot of things you can say about CS Lewis but stupid is not one of them..some of his books like Screwtape Letters and God in the Dock are awesome works..not to mention Out of the Silent Planet and Narnia..He is by far one of the best Christian Minds of the last century...Just my opinion...

[macman]

J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. Oh look, they were both close mates!

Guess great minds do think alike.

Only in terms of fiction. CS Lewis was also a Christian apologist and liked making stupid arguments

These is alot of things you can say about CS Lewis but stupid is not one of them..some of his books like Screwtape Letters and God in the Dock are awesome works..not to mention Out of the Silent Planet and Narnia..He is by far one of the best Christian Minds of the last century...Just my opinion...

[macman]

J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. Oh look, they were both close mates!

Guess great minds do think alike.

Only in terms of fiction. CS Lewis was also a Christian apologist and liked making stupid arguments

These is alot of things you can say about CS Lewis but stupid is not one of them..some of his books like Screwtape Letters and God in the Dock are awesome works..not to mention Out of the Silent Planet and Narnia..He is by far one of the best Christian Minds of the last century...Just my opinion...

[The Duchess of Zeon]

If you liked RoTK, then you should read ShuiHuJuan, Water Margin, another of the four classics.

The endings of both stories, and for Red Mansion Dreams(another of the four classics) are tragic, and Water Margin's ending was the most gut wrenching of all.

I'm still trying to wade through the original chinese version of SanGuo. Ugh.

The Nice Guy

Thank you for the advice; I shall take it when the opportunity presents no-doubt.

[Glare]

That's why I said that Tolkien was the father of MODERN fantasy.
90% of modern fantasy literature has the stereotypes he "codified". Yes he was influenced by the old myths and legends of Europe. Also, my personal opinion, is that Gollum was influenced by his early years in South Africa (my stomping ground ). He was born in Bloemfontein and the blacks there believe in the Tokoloshie, which is an evil twisted spirit about waist height to a man. Many bantu describe it in very similar ways to how Gollum is described.