Predator vs. Boba Fett

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Post by Durandal »

SAMAS wrote:
SirNitram wrote:SAMAS shows his usual level of utter incompetence. If a shot is faster than the craft(or person), the person can't dodge. Riiiiiight. It's called diving to the side, moron boy.
Okay, and when can you show me Boba or Jango quickly moving to the side while in midair, dumb-butt?
This is basic high school physics. The x and y components of motion are completely independent. If Jango can accelerate at 12 m/s^2 on a roughly straight-line, vertical course, then he can go even [/i]faster[/i] side to side because his motion is no longer being retarded by Coruscant's gravity.

Try again, fuckwit.
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

Darth Wong wrote:Boba can undoubtedly defeat Dredlocks' stealth system if he has stormtrooper-like helmet sensors.
Err isn't that "Stealth" system just glorified camoflage? Every time I recall watching the movies, you could see an outline of the Predator when he's moving.

Anyhow, regarding Boba's sensor system in his helmet:

EGW&T, page 212: "Boba fett's battle helmet includes a similar infrared/motion sensor unit with an enhanced macrobinocular viewplate. It is linked to all his weapons, providing the bounty hunter uncanny accuracy."
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Post by SAMAS »

Durandal wrote:
SAMAS wrote:The bolts from the Predator's gun are at least two, if not more, times as fast as Boba, or Jango's flight speed. As neither Fett has shown much speed in changing directions, it's a simple matter of tracking his flight path, and shooting him.
Every time we see the Predator fire his shoulder gun, the bolt slowly meanders toward a stationary target. This is unsurprising, given the amount of time it takes for him to lock on to a target.

When Jango first makes his appearance to the Jedi, he rockets away at considerable speed.

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Jango starts out where the red circle is and rockets up with a trajectory indicated by the red arrow.

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Roughly 1 second later (23 frames), Jango has covered about 12 meters (very rough scaling work, but it should be close enough). This makes for an acceleration of 12 m/s^2, or 1.2 g's. When did we see the Predator hit a Corvette accelerating from a standstill, again?
Never fired at one.

But you're measuring the situation out of context. That's when Jango was using his jetpack to escape. I.e.: a full burn to escape. Unless you think he could accurately target someone while moving that fast. Check the time Jango used his jetpack in a tactical sense, like when he was fighting Obi-Wan.

Of course, if you want him to run, go right ahead. :mrgreen:

See below for the rest of my response.
Here's a hint. When one is not trying to snipe an opponent, one does not need as much time to aim.
Which is irrelevant, since every time we see the Predator use his fancy shoulder cannon, it takes him upwards of 5 seconds to achieve a lock. Not to mention that he literally gives himself away by painting three red dots on his target, which stay there for almost 5 seconds! Fett could be 150 meters above him by the time he gets around to firing!
And every time he has used it, it was for percise, sniper-style shooting at firtually unmoving targets. However, he has used it to target and kill moving targets as well. That shows an ability to lock onto a moving target, even though the limitations are unknown.

Not counting, of course, Topknot's shoulder lasers on AvP: War, which could independently target and hit onrushing Xenomophs. Machiko uses the same type of laser later in the same issue, when she blasts out a grating to escape the Queen. She definitey did not have five seconds to aim before firing.
I'm fighting the old cop-out of: "Since Person A has a jetpack, and Person B doesn't, all Person A has to do is fly up and shoot B from the air!" by showing that there are far too many ways for Person B to tag Person A anyway that it doesn't matter.
You're a fucking moron. Fett can go anywhere he wishes faster than the Predator. He could go from building top to building top and roast the Predator while he's busy climbing with his "superior agility."
And you're an even bigger moron if you think the Predator is going to sit there in the open like an idiot. It's called jumping onto a ledge, moving to cover, cloaking, and moving around to attack from another angle while Fett checks his sensors to find him.

This is, of course, assuming the Predator attacks him in an open area. The rooftops are not the place where the Predator would perfer to set up shop, if you want to go by having Fett come for him first. In fact, in the lower, older parts of the planet where he;d likely park his ship, using the jetpack for more than running or repositioning woud be rather stupid.
Shooting him in midair
That's certainly one way of doing it. He could also leash him with his grappling hook and fly him way up high and then just drop his ass.[/quote]
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Post by SAMAS »

Durandal wrote:
SAMAS wrote:
SirNitram wrote:SAMAS shows his usual level of utter incompetence. If a shot is faster than the craft(or person), the person can't dodge. Riiiiiight. It's called diving to the side, moron boy.
Okay, and when can you show me Boba or Jango quickly moving to the side while in midair, dumb-butt?
This is basic high school physics. The x and y components of motion are completely independent. If Jango can accelerate at 12 m/s^2 on a roughly straight-line, vertical course, then he can go even [/i]faster[/i] side to side because his motion is no longer being retarded by Coruscant's gravity.

Try again, fuckwit.
Damn, but you're stupid. :roll:

And exactly how is he supposed to get this sudden change in direction? His primary thruster faces in only one direction, and the maneuvering thrusters are far smaller.
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i love boba fett but i think the predator has him on this

Post by Darth_Nader »

in my sense of reading novels and tech on both, Predator has greater tech then Fett (except for the for the jetpack). And how would Fett even come that close to the predator to use the grappling hook, even if fett could use it on predator he could just snap out of it (your forgetting how strong the predator is). The predator has more weaponry then just his shoulder rifle (and weaponry that fires faster then his shoulder rifle) if any of you have watched predator two. And who says that Fett can see a cloaked predator?
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Post by SAMAS »

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Boba can undoubtedly defeat Dredlocks' stealth system if he has stormtrooper-like helmet sensors.
Err isn't that "Stealth" system just glorified camoflage? Every time I recall watching the movies, you could see an outline of the Predator when he's moving.

Anyhow, regarding Boba's sensor system in his helmet:

EGW&T, page 212: "Boba fett's battle helmet includes a similar infrared/motion sensor unit with an enhanced macrobinocular viewplate. It is linked to all his weapons, providing the bounty hunter uncanny accuracy."
Yep. Basically, it's visual camoflague, bending visible light, at least, around the Predator. I didnt count on it to make him undetectable. However, it would work for breaking up his sillouette.

Case in point, Danny Glover's character was able to, with some measure of sucess, track the cloaked Predator from the ground while it was leaping across the rooftops. On the other hand, I wouldn't try taking a shot at it at that time.
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Post by Darth_Shinji »

You know there are many places in courscant where a hoverunit wouldn't help to much. He might be faster in the rooftops... but evantually the pred might go into a building or one of the lower levels. I say pred would win. Because while it would be a close call, Bobba would have less chances to slip up then pred would have. Pred just has more of a chance to win this than Bobba has.


And how strong do wookies get? What does the EU say?
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Post by Darth_Shinji »

SAMAS wrote: Case in point, Danny Glover's character was able to, with some measure of sucess, track the cloaked Predator from the ground while it was leaping across the rooftops. On the other hand, I wouldn't try taking a shot at it at that time.
The Pred destroyed a neon sign for Glover to follow, it was obvios he wanted Danny to follow him for the final showdown.

Also in the novels the camo gets to the point where their is a very slight impression in visible light.
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Post by Durandal »

SAMAS wrote:Never fired at one. But you're measuring the situation out of context. That's when Jango was using his jetpack to escape. I.e.: a full burn to escape. Unless you think he could accurately target someone while moving that fast. Check the time Jango used his jetpack in a tactical sense, like when he was fighting Obi-Wan.
Bullshit. You claimed that the Predator's shoulder gun fired a bolt faster than Fett's jetpack, and I showed you how utterly absurd this claim was.
Of course, if you want him to run, go right ahead.


Well duh. The Predator would come to Coruscant to kill him, so Fett would be the prey.
And every time he has used it, it was for percise, sniper-style shooting at firtually unmoving targets. However, he has used it to target and kill moving targets as well.


When?
Not counting, of course, Topknot's shoulder lasers on AvP: War, which could independently target and hit onrushing Xenomophs. Machiko uses the same type of laser later in the same issue, when she blasts out a grating to escape the Queen. She definitey did not have five seconds to aim before firing.


I'm not familiar with the canonicity of comics, so I'm only going from the two Predator films.
And you're an even bigger moron if you think the Predator is going to sit there in the open like an idiot. It's called jumping onto a ledge, moving to cover, cloaking, and moving around to attack from another angle while Fett checks his sensors to find him.
It doesn't matter. The Predator will naturally be pursuing Fett wherever he goes, and Fett knows Coruscant's layout better than the Predator! He can't avoid Fett. Fett has superior weaponry, mobility and knowledge of the combat terrain. He's got this one in the bag.
This is, of course, assuming the Predator attacks him in an open area. The rooftops are not the place where the Predator would perfer to set up shop, if you want to go by having Fett come for him first. In fact, in the lower, older parts of the planet where he;d likely park his ship, using the jetpack for more than running or repositioning woud be rather stupid.


I'm sure that's the case when he is ravaging a more primitive race, but Fett isn't going to run to a place where a gigantic mobility advantage disappears. Furthermore, even if he was in close quarters, Fett has a flamethrower and visual acuity on par or better than the Predator's. He also has more armor and better weaponry. The Predator might make it a little harder for him in the depths of Coruscant, but he'd still win.
Damn, but you're stupid.

And exactly how is he supposed to get this sudden change in direction? His primary thruster faces in only one direction, and the maneuvering thrusters are far smaller.
What the fuck are you talking about? He can fly side to side and maneuver, as demonstrated when he fought Obi-Wan on Geonosis.
Yep. Basically, it's visual camoflague, bending visible light, at least, around the Predator. I didnt count on it to make him undetectable. However, it would work for breaking up his sillouette.
It doesn't bend light, or else you'd have a gigantic antigravitational force pushing everything away from the Predator. He could simply walk up to his targets and kill them with tidal forces. Its effects look more like some sort of photographic film.
Darth_Nader wrote:in my sense of reading novels and tech on both, Predator has greater tech then Fett (except for the for the jetpack). And how would Fett even come that close to the predator to use the grappling hook, even if fett could use it on predator he could just snap out of it (your forgetting how strong the predator is). The predator has more weaponry then just his shoulder rifle (and weaponry that fires faster then his shoulder rifle) if any of you have watched predator two. And who says that Fett can see a cloaked predator?
Predator II showed us that infra-red can detect the Predator, which is unsurprising, since he's a life-form radiating heat. Furthermore, Fett's wire is strong enough to hold Obi-Wan's weight and withstood the tensile force of Obi-Wan accelerating from 19.6 m/s (this figure is conservative, being his velocity after undergoing roughly 2 seconds of freefall, not counting his initial, non-vertical descent while sliding down the platform) to 0 m/s in one frame, or an acceleration of -471 m/s^2 (roughly 50 g's). If Obi-Wan masses 70 kg, then that wire can withstand a tensile force of 33 kN. I seriously doubt the Predator can run that fast or generate that much force.
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Post by Darth_Shinji »

Durandal wrote:
SAMAS wrote:
Predator II showed us that infra-red can detect the Predator, which is unsurprising, since he's a life-form radiating heat. Furthermore, Fett's wire is strong enough to hold Obi-Wan's weight and withstood the tensile force of Obi-Wan accelerating from 19.6 m/s (this figure is conservative, being his velocity after undergoing roughly 2 seconds of freefall, not counting his initial, non-vertical descent while sliding down the platform) to 0 m/s in one frame, or an acceleration of -471 m/s^2 (roughly 50 g's). If Obi-Wan masses 70 kg, then that wire can withstand a tensile force of 33 kN. I seriously doubt the Predator can run that fast or generate that much force.
When did they use infra-red? They had to spray the room with particles to see him and phemoin sensors.... they didn't use infra-red. Which to me implies they couldn't.
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Post by Darth_Shinji »

Durandal wrote:
SAMAS wrote:
Predator II showed us that infra-red can detect the Predator, which is unsurprising, since he's a life-form radiating heat. Furthermore, Fett's wire is strong enough to hold Obi-Wan's weight and withstood the tensile force of Obi-Wan accelerating from 19.6 m/s (this figure is conservative, being his velocity after undergoing roughly 2 seconds of freefall, not counting his initial, non-vertical descent while sliding down the platform) to 0 m/s in one frame, or an acceleration of -471 m/s^2 (roughly 50 g's). If Obi-Wan masses 70 kg, then that wire can withstand a tensile force of 33 kN. I seriously doubt the Predator can run that fast or generate that much force.
When did they use infra-red? They had to spray the room with particles to see him and phemoin sensors.... they didn't use infra-red. Which to me implies they couldn't. I've stated this before.
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Post by SirNitram »

Darth_Shinji wrote:
Durandal wrote:
SAMAS wrote:
Predator II showed us that infra-red can detect the Predator, which is unsurprising, since he's a life-form radiating heat. Furthermore, Fett's wire is strong enough to hold Obi-Wan's weight and withstood the tensile force of Obi-Wan accelerating from 19.6 m/s (this figure is conservative, being his velocity after undergoing roughly 2 seconds of freefall, not counting his initial, non-vertical descent while sliding down the platform) to 0 m/s in one frame, or an acceleration of -471 m/s^2 (roughly 50 g's). If Obi-Wan masses 70 kg, then that wire can withstand a tensile force of 33 kN. I seriously doubt the Predator can run that fast or generate that much force.
When did they use infra-red? They had to spray the room with particles to see him and phemoin sensors.... they didn't use infra-red. Which to me implies they couldn't.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

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Post by Darth_Shinji »

SirNitram wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:
Durandal wrote: When did they use infra-red? They had to spray the room with particles to see him and phemoin sensors.... they didn't use infra-red. Which to me implies they couldn't.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Fanboy syndrome strikes again.
Well, you certainly proved that they could infra-red to see him. Yep. :roll:

And Bobba Fett isn't fanboy syndrome? :?
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

He HAS a tagetting Motion sensor, he lives in a universe where there are virtualy invisible creatures (Wraiths), Going By EU rules Boba or Jango would win. For ever more nails in the coffin. Batman vs. Predator I (Sonar Batsuit with Nitro-express rifle) >Then Dreadboy.
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Post by SirNitram »

Darth_Shinji wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Fanboy syndrome strikes again.
Well, you certainly proved that they could infra-red to see him. Yep. :roll:

And Bobba Fett isn't fanboy syndrome? :?
No, Boba Fett isn't fanboy syndrome. I don't see how a character could be.

But the 'We never see Countermeasure X used, so it can't work' is a fallacy. Prove it doesn't emit heat or conceede.
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Post by Darth_Shinji »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:He HAS a tagetting Motion sensor, he lives in a universe where there are virtualy invisible creatures (Wraiths), Going By EU rules Boba or Jango would win. For ever more nails in the coffin. Batman vs. Predator I (Sonar Batsuit with Nitro-express rifle) >Then Dreadboy.
What makes you say that? Both basicaly have more or less equal equipment. Except Bobba has a hoverpack for a slight advanatge mobility wise on rooftops. And predator makes up for it with impressive melee and combat ability. Older preds can dodge bullets if they see them coming and jump 30ft in the air according to the darkhourse comics. the guys who I think made them.

And Batman beats everyone he meets in the comics, so that isn't saying much.
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Post by Darth Servo »

The predator could see himself with infra-red. Doesn't this prove that you CAN use infra-red?
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Post by Durandal »

Sorry, Shinji, that was my mistake. It was the Predator who switched through a bunch of different spectrums to see the people in the room.

However, the fact that the guys in Predator II didn't use infra-red simply means that they're either idiots or they didn't want to confuse their own sensors with their own bodies. Is there any evidence that the Predator is cold-blooded? His musculature and body structure is extremely similar to a human's.
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Post by Durandal »

Darth Servo wrote:The predator could see himself with infra-red. Doesn't this prove that you CAN use infra-red?
Oh yeah ... there was that too. Thanks, Servo. :)
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Post by Darth_Shinji »

SirNitram wrote: No, Boba Fett isn't fanboy syndrome. I don't see how a character could be.

But the 'We never see Countermeasure X used, so it can't work' is a fallacy. Prove it doesn't emit heat or conceede.
He claimed they did. I said they didn't.But your right thermoptics is a way of finding them.

But you don't consider his fame in the EU overrated to his impotence in the movie? :? Difference of opionion then.
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Post by Darth_Shinji »

I fond it in the novels. They can find him in infra-red. and he did see his hand in the first movie. I conceed the point.

It still a close match to me.
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Post by SirNitram »

Darth_Shinji wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:He HAS a tagetting Motion sensor, he lives in a universe where there are virtualy invisible creatures (Wraiths), Going By EU rules Boba or Jango would win. For ever more nails in the coffin. Batman vs. Predator I (Sonar Batsuit with Nitro-express rifle) >Then Dreadboy.
What makes you say that? Both basicaly have more or less equal equipment. Except Bobba has a hoverpack for a slight advanatge mobility wise on rooftops. And predator makes up for it with impressive melee and combat ability. Older preds can dodge bullets if they see them coming and jump 30ft in the air according to the darkhourse comics. the guys who I think made them.

And Batman beats everyone he meets in the comics, so that isn't saying much.
Equal technology. You keep claiming this, yet never prove it. How many large animals have trampled a Predator and left him with nothing but damage to one portion of his suit? How many Predators have fallen into massive mouths and survived the acids to escape? Surely you can see where this is going.
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Post by Durandal »

Darth_Shinji wrote:
SirNitram wrote: No, Boba Fett isn't fanboy syndrome. I don't see how a character could be.

But the 'We never see Countermeasure X used, so it can't work' is a fallacy. Prove it doesn't emit heat or conceede.
He claimed they did. I said they didn't.But your right thermoptics is a way of finding them.

But you don't consider his fame in the EU overrated to his impotence in the movie? :? Difference of opionion then.
When did we see Boba Fett doing anything in the films that belies impotence? In TESB, he was being held on a leash by Darth Vader. In RotJ, he was fighting the son of the most powerful Jedi in existence. In AotC, he was a kid.
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Post by Darth_Shinji »

SirNitram wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:He HAS a tagetting Motion sensor, he lives in a universe where there are virtualy invisible creatures (Wraiths), Going By EU rules Boba or Jango would win. For ever more nails in the coffin. Batman vs. Predator I (Sonar Batsuit with Nitro-express rifle) >Then Dreadboy.
What makes you say that? Both basicaly have more or less equal equipment. Except Bobba has a hoverpack for a slight advanatge mobility wise on rooftops. And predator makes up for it with impressive melee and combat ability. Older preds can dodge bullets if they see them coming and jump 30ft in the air according to the darkhourse comics. the guys who I think made them.

And Batman beats everyone he meets in the comics, so that isn't saying much.
Equal technology. You keep claiming this, yet never prove it. How many large animals have trampled a Predator and left him with nothing but damage to one portion of his suit? How many Predators have fallen into massive mouths and survived the acids to escape? Surely you can see where this is going.
A preds clock is bullet-proof in the secound movie. And his blades can go through steel. That laser has done simarly damage as a blaster has before. His other weapons vaprize aleins.

I can give far more immpressive feats of toughness from the movies and novels then the above. But that isn't armour per say. :D
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Post by Darth_Shinji »

Durandal wrote:
When did we see Boba Fett doing anything in the films that belies impotence? In TESB, he was being held on a leash by Darth Vader. In RotJ, he was fighting the son of the most powerful Jedi in existence. In AotC, he was a kid.
And he was (as far as the average movie goerer knows) is killed by a blind man. and has along the lines of 10 minutes in both films. In fact he is more along the line of transport for solo than anything else in the movie.

His impotence in the movies is nothing. And his end is humilating. Only after the films in the EU does he gain any coolness.
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