Gundam 00 - Second Season.

[Ford Prefect]

On the upside, Soma hits the scene in her tangerine Meister suit in episode sixteen.

[VF5SS]

Here's an interesting post from 4chan about the second season. I agree with some of the points raised.

Why is Gundam 00 S2 so horrible? In S1, the antagonists were like the Titans, Axis, AEUG, etc... as they were all believable military factions that weren't just the BAD GUYS or GOOD GUYS. They were various forces acting with their own goals which caused conflict with other forces and led to interesting scenarios.

In S2 the show is doing everything it can to make the A-Laws completely paper thin BAD GUYS who lick their lips and kill millions of civilians to get a stab at their enemies. Then you have the Innovators who are just OO's version of the colored haired kids from SEED/SEED-D who randomly show up, are overconfident and laughing, put up a fight, lose the fight, run away until they all get killed in the finale. THESE ARE NOT INTERESTING ANTAGONISTS. It also doesn't help that Cataran is being made the holy good order with singing princess and kids as their symbol. Cataran was MUCH more interesting when it was introduced and seemed a little shady.

What season 2 should have been was the Federation expanding towards a goal of total global control and Cataron being the rebel forces that are fighting that expansion because they feel it's unfair and too aggressive. Both forces should have been 75% good intentions, 25% necessary evil. So CB has to struggle with both ideals and figure out what to do while both sides are using them against each other. It should have been a serious political military scenario, not this commercialized bullshit we have now.

I mean come on, does adding these multi-hair colored innovator kids really add that much to sales for Sunrise? Did we really need them?

The show feels like it's being written 2-3 eps at a time and then they go "ok, what should we do next" and just create things out of nothing. Hercules & Sergei's development should have been LAST SEASON. Hercules should have been a present character throughout the show like how Saji was, and then when he makes this decision to do the rebellion it would make sense and flow well. Instead the character is introduced simply for the sake of creating a plot point. Saji is also so, so, so useless. They spent so much time in S1 setting up his character for SOMETHING but he just sits around on the ship in S2. Even when he had the chance to become the main engineer for CB when Ian died...Ian comes back the next ep in full 100%! Sergei's kid Andrew, again, should have been introduced in season 1 so it would flow better with him being pulled between his duty as an officer and his feelings towards his father. Instead he's just kind of half-developed in S2 and seems like a waste. Then you have the characters from S1 who just show up every 3 eps and have one scene and disappear again (Ali, Graham). The show just DOES NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH ITS CAST. It neglects the aces from S1 and introduces and under develops new characters in S2. The whole season break thing just fucked everything up and I blame GEASS.

I really don't see OO saving itself at this point. Watching the eps you feel like even the staff has lost hope and is ready to bail on this project. I'd honestly be happier if Sunrise just canned it then let it get any worse. Gundam X was far better than this and it got canned at 39eps.

[Companion Cube]

The show just DOES NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH ITS CAST.

I'd agree with this to an extent, yeah. I'm no expert on pacing, but I think I'd enjoy it more if we had the occasional Graham Episode, or Sergei Episode, or whatever. I actually found 16 satisfying because so much of it was spent on the coup-in-progress, with a bit of Mr. Bushido drama at the end.

Also, I had pretty low expectations going into the episode; I've probably been watching too much bullshit recently. Here's how I suspected the coup would pan out:
Spoiler

Col. Hercules: A-ha, we have taken control of the space elevator!

A-LAWS: Release the automatons!

*Coup members are mown down*

Col. Hercules: DAMN YOU A-LAAAWWSSSS

*Innovators strafe equatorial space station*

*Space elevator explodes, everyone gasps*

But instead we establish Hercules' (or whatever his actual name is, fansubs aside) character as being committed enough to carry out a fairly brutal plan (taking thousands of civilians hostage, anticipating the indiscriminate deployment of killer robots against civilians and rebels alike), but also competent enough to not lose it until A-LAWS pull out their trump card. So yeah, a good episode in my book.

One thing that puzzled me, however:
Spoiler

Before I saw the episode, I was expecting the Innovators to be the ones bringing down the elevator, since surely all of the A-LAWS officers would have too much of a stake in civilization continuing on earth to allow an entire tower (and possibly a section of both orbital rings) to fall? Perhaps the rings have an emergency release to stop a falling tower from dragging the other two down. And of course, I might be wrong about the scale of the damage should one of the elevators fall; they might be wispier than they look.

Miscellaneous point: Looking at the ESF army gathered around the base of the elevator, did anyone else notice a number of green suits supporting the blue GNX-IIIs? Presumably those were Enacts from a local garrison, since the Africa tower used to belong to the EU.

[Ypoknons]

I'd agree with this to an extent, yeah. I'm no expert on pacing, but I think I'd enjoy it more if we had the occasional Graham Episode, or Sergei Episode, or whatever. I actually found 16 satisfying because so much of it was spent on the coup-in-progress, with a bit of Mr. Bushido drama at the end.

Graham's been boring lately. His accomplishments aren't as good as Flag VS Throne Eins and he doesn't say anything cool like "world peace through arms? HAHAHA" or "it must be ... LOVE!" Ali too - we haven't really learned anything more about his motivations and goals since S1. Why must he fight? Why KPSA? Sergei and Andrei are finally getting some needed development, though Andrei is still a little flat (BWUA I hate you Daddy why did you let mom die?). Hopefully Marie's decision to take up arms again is well done next episode.

[Marikina]

Ali too - we haven't really learned anything more about his motivations and goals since S1. Why must he fight? Why KPSA?

Ali's motivations and goals have the most obvious of the whole lot. As for KPSA, he made it clear that it was just means to his current end, and one that was readily discarded once it served its purpose.

[generator_g1]

Papa Bear, you will be missed....

Clicky!

Guess who's gunning for Andrei now....

[VF5SS]

Good job, Andrei. You've manged to become the most unappealing character in all of Gundam 00. And is it just me or is the orbital elevator's method of dealing with damaged really stupid? Why does the thing shed 80% of its mass only to let it fall on the ground? Was there not supposed to be a fricken' city there?

[Ypoknons]

Yeah. Can some of the engineering or science types explain why its good/bad for the elevator to fall apart the way it did?

Its also interesting that Sumeragi gave away her identity by publicly sending her video message to everyone around. If she was still wearing her S1 dresses boobs would have save the world.

[Companion Cube]

Yeah. Can some of the engineering or science types explain why its good/bad for the elevator to fall apart the way it did?

I think the idea is that in a typical "elevator-comes-loose-at-the-top" scenario, the whole thing would wrap around the earth. Jettisoning the heavy outer shell immediately would mean that only the central fibres (which are presumably much lighter) would be wrapping, and they might even burn up in the atmosphere, I don't know. Having stuff fall all over Africa would be acceptable collateral damage, I guess.

[Commander 598]

Here's an interesting post from 4chan about the second season. I agree with some of the points raised.

Why is Gundam 00 S2 so horrible? In S1, the antagonists were like the Titans, Axis, AEUG, etc... as they were all believable military factions that weren't just the BAD GUYS or GOOD GUYS. They were various forces acting with their own goals which caused conflict with other forces and led to interesting scenarios.

In S2 the show is doing everything it can to make the A-Laws completely paper thin BAD GUYS who lick their lips and kill millions of civilians to get a stab at their enemies. Then you have the Innovators who are just OO's version of the colored haired kids from SEED/SEED-D who randomly show up, are overconfident and laughing, put up a fight, lose the fight, run away until they all get killed in the finale. THESE ARE NOT INTERESTING ANTAGONISTS. It also doesn't help that Cataran is being made the holy good order with singing princess and kids as their symbol. Cataran was MUCH more interesting when it was introduced and seemed a little shady.

What season 2 should have been was the Federation expanding towards a goal of total global control and Cataron being the rebel forces that are fighting that expansion because they feel it's unfair and too aggressive. Both forces should have been 75% good intentions, 25% necessary evil. So CB has to struggle with both ideals and figure out what to do while both sides are using them against each other. It should have been a serious political military scenario, not this commercialized bullshit we have now.

I mean come on, does adding these multi-hair colored innovator kids really add that much to sales for Sunrise? Did we really need them?

The show feels like it's being written 2-3 eps at a time and then they go "ok, what should we do next" and just create things out of nothing. Hercules & Sergei's development should have been LAST SEASON. Hercules should have been a present character throughout the show like how Saji was, and then when he makes this decision to do the rebellion it would make sense and flow well. Instead the character is introduced simply for the sake of creating a plot point. Saji is also so, so, so useless. They spent so much time in S1 setting up his character for SOMETHING but he just sits around on the ship in S2. Even when he had the chance to become the main engineer for CB when Ian died...Ian comes back the next ep in full 100%! Sergei's kid Andrew, again, should have been introduced in season 1 so it would flow better with him being pulled between his duty as an officer and his feelings towards his father. Instead he's just kind of half-developed in S2 and seems like a waste. Then you have the characters from S1 who just show up every 3 eps and have one scene and disappear again (Ali, Graham). The show just DOES NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH ITS CAST. It neglects the aces from S1 and introduces and under develops new characters in S2. The whole season break thing just fucked everything up and I blame GEASS.

I really don't see OO saving itself at this point. Watching the eps you feel like even the staff has lost hope and is ready to bail on this project. I'd honestly be happier if Sunrise just canned it then let it get any worse. Gundam X was far better than this and it got canned at 39eps.

I personally liken it to how Geass R2 went down the crapper in almost identical ways (Though nowhere near as badly) by shoehorning in lolis, shotas, an entire team of almost total irrelevancy who were poorly developed throughout(KoR/Innovators), bridge bunnies of questionable age, poor plot handling, and ramping up the fanwhoring aspects, all despite that we basically already had a full well handled cast in a pretty widely regarded as above average series with ace pilots who essentially radiated awesome (Cornelia, Todo, Guilford, Jeremiah*, Sergei, Graham, Ali) instead of "Oh, it's you again...hurry it up already and get back to the plot". Speaking of the first season aces, they manage to butcher (In light of the latest episode: HEH) most of them in the second season of both series in some way.

*Well, he was at least fairly entertaining in the first season as a ball of psychotic racism instead of a [bad] walking meme.

The way I've been hearing it is that they're reading 2ch a bit too intensively these days. Sunrise second seasons basically bleed potential like a suicidal emo in a room full of razors these days.

[VF5SS]

2ch is probably the most direct route to the most hardcore of Gundam fans, but I have to wonder if those hardcore fans were even watching the show in the first place. Did they really turn Graham into a crazy masked character just to satisfy some wingnut UC fans? I think part of the problem with this whole season break approach is that they're not spending the time to plan the next season so much as it's just a rallying of merchandise and J-Pop artists. The debut of the GN Archer and the Empress have been really lackluster. There's no real natural feeling to the way all this new stuff is being introduced and it's starting to feel like the later half of Zeta and Double Zeta where new designs would pop up out of nowhere just to sell more models. Also in following the same problem SEED had, all the interesting design elements from the first season have been homogenized into that standard Gundam look. I felt everything in the first season just looked more unique and less "safe." They didn't even have those little vents on the mouths of their Gundams.

[Ypoknons]

I think the idea is that in a typical "elevator-comes-loose-at-the-top" scenario, the whole thing would wrap around the earth. Jettisoning the heavy outer shell immediately would mean that only the central fibres (which are presumably much lighter) would be wrapping, and they might even burn up in the atmosphere, I don't know. Having stuff fall all over Africa would be acceptable collateral damage, I guess.

After all, no enemy (or natural disaster) would have the means and the balls to take down an elevator, right Hercules?

[Companion Cube]

After all, no enemy (or natural disaster) would have the means and the balls to take down an elevator, right Hercules?

Exactly, so the whole question's academic. There's absolutely no reason at all we shouldn't settle in the elevator's shadow.

[Ypoknons]

Exactly, so the whole question's academic. There's absolutely no reason at all we shouldn't settle in the elevator's shadow.

Also, after the formation of the EF, growth was spurned by the fact that the 3 superpowers wouldn't war anymore. Terrorist attacks were one danger, but there'd be easier targets than the space elevator and a lot of terrorists wouldn't have the means anyways. CB was a big question mark, but the wealth under the elevator was not. People never imagined it'd be a branch of the EF that would fire a city-killing beam into the the thing.

[VF5SS]

This episode didn't make me hate everyone. In the wake of Sergei's death, Marie is now Soma again, which makes Allelujah upset that his waifu is gone. 00bama makes a speech at the beginning signifying the combination of A-LAWS and the Earth Federation army into one single unit. Oh and there's now a relationship between a new innovator and the new Lockon.

[Ypoknons]

Before the battle, everyone said the name of the one they love: Spoiler

Alle: Marie
Lyle: Anew
Saiji: Louise
Tieria: Veda
Sestuna: Gundam

So touched by Tieria and Sestunam, will never forget.

[VF5SS]

I think this show needs to cut down on the naked people events and the halfassed newtype bullshit. Some highlights of episode 19 include Seravee using six beam sabers (which both the Robot Tamashii and HCM Pro can't do because they only come with two) and the use of Seraphim to capture Revival Revive. But wait! Revival is using his innovator powers to mind control Anew. Also we get another pointless Mr. Bushido scene at the end. And Ribbonz applied the mighty haymaker to Regene's glasses. Even Regene's father never hit her/him/it.

[Ypoknons]

Ugh. That 1/100 Seraveephim had better kick ass. If there's any part swapping in the transformation or missing beam sabers I'm sticking to Master Grade for good.

[Companion Cube]

I think this show needs to cut down on the naked people events and the halfassed newtype bullshit. Some highlights of episode 19 include Seravee using six beam sabers (which both the Robot Tamashii and HCM Pro can't do because they only come with two) and the use of Seraphim to capture Revival Revive. But wait! Revival is using his innovator powers to mind control Anew. Also we get another pointless Mr. Bushido scene at the end. And Ribbonz applied the mighty haymaker to Regene's glasses. Even Regene's father never hit her/him/it.

I think you omitted the best part of the episode in your summary
Spoiler

Nena Trinity: lololol

[VF5SS]

Ugh. That 1/100 Seraveephim had better kick ass. If there's any part swapping in the transformation or missing beam sabers I'm sticking to Master Grade for good.

Robot Tamashii Seravee (hay it rhymes) and HCM Pro Seravee. I forgot that the HCM Pro comes with 4 beam sabers (why not include the extra two?) and the awesome bro-hands accessory. I suppose their logic is you could just take beam sabers from the other three Gundams since they're identical.

Also about Nena's scene, all I could think about when her old MS slid out of that crab thing was, "Man, there must be a lot of Throne Drei kits sitting in a warehouse that gotta be sold."

[Ypoknons]

Maybe if only Wang gave Nena a better suit (borrow an Arche or Gadessa off Ribbons) she'd be alive today Or just deader.

[pj1351]

I think this show needs to cut down on the naked people events and the halfassed newtype bullshit.

Hey, who wouldn't want peace when they can see Setsuna and Saji floating around in space in their birthday suits if the war continues?

Also we get another pointless Mr. Bushido scene at the end.

They really should start doing something significant with Bushido... Or just give him the standard mecha anime side character development promptly followed by sudden death treatment... Because at this point, it's looking like all he would amount to is show up in the last episode spouting something stupid, damage the 00 some, gets killed before Setsuna moves on to the main dish.

[VF5SS]

Hey, who wouldn't want peace when they can see Setsuna and Saji floating around in space in their birthday suits if the war continues?

It makes you stop and think.

[pj1351]

Hey, who wouldn't want peace when they can see Setsuna and Saji floating around in space in their birthday suits if the war continues?

It makes you stop and think.

*Gasp* We've somehow managed to stumbled on the true reason why Bushido never sticks around very long in the second season... How can the poor bastard fight properly when he's been intimidated by the size of Setsuna's full sized beam saber?

Seriously, it's definitely looking like G00 is going to really need to have it's own version of GW Endless Waltz, or GSD Final Plus to be more accurate, just to tidy up all these random loose ends and silliness... Or perhaps they were planning that in the first place, just to sell another line of damned model kits.

[Sharp-kun]

Seriously, it's definitely looking like G00 is going to really need to have it's own version of GW Endless Waltz, or GSD Final Plus to be more accurate, just to tidy up all these random loose ends and silliness... Or perhaps they were planning that in the first place, just to sell another line of damned model kits.

I think its being made with another series in mind.