Of powered armor, mechs and feasibility.

[PeZook]

If a conventional light infantry squad faces off against a PA'd squad, and both are capable of dealing damage to each other (let's say the LI squad is armed with Kords and Barrets, for instance), the squad that prevails will be the one that can avoid detection and remain hidden the longest. The human body can lay silent and hide behind rocks, grass and small irregularities on the ground. PA will be noisy and volumous, the exact opposite. Frankly, the only way I see PA working is in assaults to prepared positions, where the elements of camouflage (which are essential inna woods) are not a factor, and where resistance to fire is paramount.

Most engagements outside of cities will happen in daylight, at a range of 100-200 metres and as part of a larger fighting force. Most of the killing today is done by various artillery and air power, to a lesser extent machine guns.

My exact point was that an army fully equipped with powered armor will be far more resistant to the primary killers of a modern battlefield. Even if the armor does not fully protect against blast and shrapnel (and it probably won't), the infantry force become vastly resistant to supression that's supposed to pin it in place for artillery. On the other hand, when they're facing a non-PA light infantry squad, they can still supress them just fine for their own artillery to kill, while the LI will have to carefully aim and hit every powered armor suit with their sniper rifles, instead of pasting them all with a few 155 shells.

Realistically speaking, PA will be expensive, so it will probably be used as a support platform: if it's light and small enough to fit into buildings while still being immune (or close to immune), to small arms fire, it will be great for tanking for entry teams.

Outside cities, it will have less advantages over an IFV, but in rugged terrain it will still be good enough when operating in combination with light infantry.

Precise details depend on how the armor works and whether is actually is resistant to small arms or not.

[Scorpion]

All those guns are a shitload more reliable than the AR15 series too

Do you happen to have the failure rate for them?

*Ahem.*

"In July 2007, the US Army announced a limited competition between the M4 carbine, FN SCAR, HK416, XCR, and the previously-shelved HK XM8. Ten examples of each of the four competitors were involved. Each weapon was fired for 60,000 rounds in an 'extreme dust environment.' (...) The XM8 scored the best, with only 127 stoppages in 60,000 total rounds, the FN SCAR Light had 226 stoppages, while the HK416 had 233 stoppages. The M4 carbine scored 'significantly worse' than the rest of the field with 882 stoppages."

Sauce 1
Sauce 2

[Ritterin Sophia]

*Ahem.*

I'm not sure whether you're trying to be cute or clever, but you're coming off as annoying.

For one, I already knew about that test, in fact I referenced it in the Assault Rifles thread. For two, I asked about the Steyr AUG, FAMAS, SA80, F2000, you know the rifles listed? For three, I suggest you look up the differences between an HK416 and an AR15 and the differences between an M4 and M16.

So again, do you have the failure rates of those other rifles?

[Scorpion]

*Ahem.*

Are you just functionally illiterate? For one, I already knew about that test, in fact I referenced it in the Assault Rifles thread. For two, I asked about the Steyr AUG, FAMAS, SA80, F2000, you know the rifles listed? For three, I suggest you look up the differences between an HK416 and an AR15 and the differences between an M4 and M16.

So again to JSF or anyone other than Scorpion who can actually read, do you have the failure rates of those other rifles?

What the fuck, dude? Why do you have to be insulting? There's a thing called "civility", you know?

[Ritterin Sophia]

What the fuck, dude? Why do you have to be insulting? There's a thing called "civility", you know?

I apologize. I get a bit pissed off when people fail to actually read what I wrote and understand the context the question was asked in even when it's obvious as can be, I thought better of it and had attempted to edit my reply to reflect that but apparently you'd started to reply before I had finished. Regardless, the 'ahem' comes off as extremely patronizing especially when you obviously failed at comprehending what was wrote.

[Norade]

What the fuck, dude? Why do you have to be insulting? There's a thing called "civility", you know?

While I realize that Schatten has already said what is likely to be the biggest apology you're likely to see around here I',m going to point out that this board has a culture of ass holery and general insults.

[JointStrikeFighter]

The key issue is going to be that all the other rifles use gas piston systems just like the SCAR, HK416 and G36 [XM8 was a repacked G36 anyway].

Ill try and track down some steyr figures though

[JointStrikeFighter]

Here is some anecdotal steyr evidence: http://www.greendevils.pl/technika_wojs ... steyr.html

25 mags fired sequentially on full auto before a jam; so 750 rounds.

So we can assume in a 60,000 round test a grand total of 80 steyr stoppages

[Stark]

If only that's how endurance tests worked?

[VF5SS]

Do you guys have to turn every mecha thread into pointless milwanking?

Ok here's my argument, Zaku shoots people with its big gun because it's a big scary robot with an eye that goes gupo~n so it is superior.

[Shroom Man 777]

Do you guys have to turn every mecha thread into pointless milwanking?

Ok here's my argument, Zaku shoots people with its big gun because it's a big scary robot with an eye that goes gupo~n so it is superior.

The God Gundam can do space jewjitsu and can stab your Zaku in the dick with its SHINNINGAARRUUU FIIIIINGAAAAAAAHHHSSSSSS!!!!!! So it is superior. And so is the Devil Mr. Satan Gundam. The negative menergy morningstarks clearly make these superior vehicles for headbutting/cuntpunching satellites in sea, air, land and space.

I have turned this mecha thread into pointed mechtanking.

EDIT:

To make it less of a shitpost:

Hey guys, I wonder how AK-47/AKM/AK-74 derivatives or whatever variant is the main Russian rifle in use right now would fare in similar tests! How well would these guns compare to the latest Western small arms, ala Steyrs and FAMAS and F2000s and G36s?

[Shroom Man 777]

Pardon my doublepost, the editing function expired on me.

What happens when one million years in the future, soldiers are wearing armor that looks like BDU but the cloth is made out of nanoes that can turn rigid or act like artificial musculature that can drastically enhance user strength? And in the future, this is so cheap that everyone has this? And, in fact, in that future cybernetic genetic engineering and posthumanity and stuff has ensured that people's organ systems are branded consumer electronic products, with Kodak-manufactured eyeballs, General Electric nervous system, Microsoft brainware, and Ford Motors musculatory systems all built in Chinese factories in Space America? When every future human has the strength of a bear that has the strength of five bears, and their standard battle dress uniform amplifies that by a factor of five (hence a soldier in standard BDUs will have the approximate strength of twenty five bears), will this mean that powered armor has replaced light infantry? What if powered armor becomes light infantry?

The users would most likely cook to death.

They would have Spinosaurus-style spines or Stegosaurus fins that would be used to radiate the heat. Or some other form of dissipation. Maybe in the future they vent heat by converting it into neutrinos. Or have liquid nitrogen circulating through their futuristic posthuman veins. Or have extremophile thermophilic metabolisms and have the heat tolerances of a Project Pluto nuclear ramjet!

Yeah, vent the heat inside the enclosed metal suit. That sounds so safe.

No, turd brain, these future weapons systems will expel the waste heat outside through their orifices.

It's like suggesting Humvees stick their exhaust pipes through the passenger compartment. Only suicidal people do that, with garden hoses.

[adam_grif]

The key issue is going to be that all the other rifles use gas piston systems just like the SCAR, HK416 and G36 [XM8 was a repacked G36 anyway].

Ill try and track down some steyr figures though

That's still not going to give us exactly what we want, because we'd also like to be able to separate "failures caused by shitty STANAGs" from "failures caused by the DI system".

[Ritterin Sophia]

The key issue is going to be that all the other rifles use gas piston systems just like the SCAR, HK416 and G36 [XM8 was a repacked G36 anyway].

Ill try and track down some steyr figures though

That's still not going to give us exactly what we want, because we'd also like to be able to separate "failures caused by shitty STANAGs" from "failures caused by the DI system".

Well considering that the HK416 is a new upper for the M4 that turns it into a gas piston operated weapon, and that simply by doing so the HK416 has nearly three-quarters less stoppages than the M4 it quite clearly demonstrates that the biggest problem with the AR15 system is the DI system.

[adam_grif]

Did they use the HK High Reliability magazines in the trials or just the regular ones for the HK416?

Additionally, do we have any numbers for other trials for the M16 / M4?

[Ritterin Sophia]

Did they use the HK High Reliability magazines in the trials or just the regular ones for the HK416?

I don't see why they would, unless you have reason to believe the US Army tests were unfairly and unrealistically stacked in the HK416s favor?

[Scorpion]

That's still not going to give us exactly what we want, because we'd also like to be able to separate "failures caused by shitty STANAGs" from "failures caused by the DI system".

What's the problem with STANAG magazines? I'm truly ignorant of this, and I just want to know.

[Ritterin Sophia]

What's the problem with STANAG magazines? I'm truly ignorant of this, and I just want to know.

STANAG stands for Standardization Agreement, it's a policy for NATO nations that facilitate common technical and policy standards. Draft* STANAG 4179, the proposed standards for 5.56mm magazines, only lays out the dimensional standard and not quality. So most of them are made with the cheapest materials you can find and thus they're prone to malfunction or outright breaking (when I was in BCT at Ft Sill there was a STANAG magazine that was only held together with blue electrical tape) due to lack of durability. Some people, like H&K, do develop decent STANAG compatible magazines.

*STANAG 4172 was never really ratified and still remains on the drafting table, though most NATO forces still procured or developed STANAG compatible rifles and magazines of their own.

[adam_grif]

Did they use the HK High Reliability magazines in the trials or just the regular ones for the HK416?

I don't see why they would, unless you have reason to believe the US Army tests were unfairly and unrealistically stacked in the HK416s favor?

Nothing of note. I recall people making a fuss about how the test was anomalous and that the M4 doesn't jam that often in other similar tests, but I have no idea if that's true or just the old guard furious that their red blooded American service rifle was being threatened by a bunch of foreigners.

[Iosef Cross]

If a conventional light infantry squad faces off against a PA'd squad, and both are capable of dealing damage to each other (let's say the LI squad is armed with Kords and Barrets, for instance), the squad that prevails will be the one that can avoid detection and remain hidden the longest. The human body can lay silent and hide behind rocks, grass and small irregularities on the ground. PA will be noisy and volumous, the exact opposite. Frankly, the only way I see PA working is in assaults to prepared positions, where the elements of camouflage (which are essential inna woods) are not a factor, and where resistance to fire is paramount.

Most engagements outside of cities will happen in daylight, at a range of 100-200 metres and as part of a larger fighting force. Most of the killing today is done by various artillery and air power, to a lesser extent machine guns.

If I remember, in WW2 about 60% of the casualties were due to artillery, while 30% were due to small arms. Power Armour would be near immune to both of these factors. In other, words PA would fucking revolutionize warfare.

Today air power is more important, but most of the killing is still done by artillery. Indirect fire artillery, the kind of thing that would kill a soldier in PA if it hits directly the men, with happens once in 1 thousand times.

My exact point was that an army fully equipped with powered armor will be far more resistant to the primary killers of a modern battlefield.

Plus the advantages of increased strength, agility and stamina.

[Night_stalker]

Immune to shrapnel maybe, but a direct hit? Nah, that will be a problem to make it tough enough to withstand a direct hit from a 155mm shell.

[Aaron]

You'll just see shells that dispense guided bomblets be developed and deployed to counter the power armour. Such things already exist to kill AFV's in any number of forms.

[Ritterin Sophia]

You'll just see shells that dispense guided bomblets be developed and deployed to counter the power armour. Such things already exist to kill AFV's in any number of forms.

Or Fisters will simply start painting them for direct hits from GPS guided Excalibers and laser designated Copperheads, if an M1 can't survive an M712 I know power armor isn't.

[Aaron]

True enough, I'd forgotten about that stuff. Probably because we don't have much of it.

[Norade]

You'll just see shells that dispense guided bomblets be developed and deployed to counter the power armour. Such things already exist to kill AFV's in any number of forms.

Or Fisters will simply start painting them for direct hits from GPS guided Excalibers and laser designated Copperheads, if an M1 can't survive an M712 I know power armor isn't.

Not to mention the increase use of concussive and thermoberic rounds to paste or cook people in PA out too a decent distance.