nBSG Episode 319: "Crossroads, Part II"...

[Sam Or I]

It was almost like 1.25 episodes. After the trial completed everything was wrapped up, then the next episode started with them jumping into the power outage.

[Vympel]

Public service announcement: deletions of the useless posts in this thread has now taken place. If any of you are wondering why your post count is one or two posts less than it should be.

So let's all remember for next season- no more bullshit +1 posts. Substantive commentary with context. One sentence will do if it makes bloody sense.

[Gil Hamilton]

If Ron Moore is willing to suggest that the Colonials, by sheer coincidence, composed a song identical to one created on Earth, then the notion that the Colonials might also coincidentally use 60 minute hours and wear ties is not far behind.

Except the 60 minute per hour, 24 hour per day parameters is less likely than the Colonials having Jimi Hendricks transcend space and time (something I support, actually), because they are directly based on Earth parameters.

Frankly, it makes nothing but sense that the Colonials are distantly descended from colonists from Earth.



Anyway, on thinking it over, revealing the identity of four of the final five has got to be another fakeout on the writing staff's part. I know, I saw the Ron Moore interview, but it's not like he's never lied through his teeth to keep future plot points secret before. Let's look at it as if they were actually Cylons:

-Tigh is somehow mysteriously introduced into the decades before any of the rest, and shortly after the Cylons left human space as toasters rather than humalons. He happens to rise through the ranks of the various Colonial fleets, just happens to be good friends with William Adama, and in the end, just happens to be assigned to the ship that isn't blown up by the Cylons when they attacked, even though there was no way that could have been planned. Whole lot of coincidences there, huh?

-Same thing happens with Tyrol. He just happens to be assigned to the same ship as the other Final Five Cylon, the only ship in the fleet that wasn't blown up. There is also no way this could have been planned, he easily could have been on another ship, even if he did have a directive to join the military. He has no trouble reproducing, despite that we've seen an established history of Cylons not being fertile except for that one Sharon model. Huge coincidence, huh?

-Tori just happens to be the aide to the Secretary of Education and is travelling with her when the attack on the colonies happens. Roslin becomes president after the entire line of succession is killed and Tori, a Cylon, becomes the Presidential Aide. There could have been no predicting that Roslin would have been travelling when the attack happened or that the entire line of succession would be killed in the attack. Will wonders never cease?

-And Anders, who coincidently isn't killed when the colonies are attacked by indiscriminate nuking, is also a Cylon, who ends up as a resistance fighter. There is absolutely no way they could have planned for him to encounter Starbuck and then end up in the fleet with the other three Secret Cylons but he just so happened to have made it. WOW.

We can assume all those things happened and accept a truly staggering amount of coincidence that every member of the Final Five just happened to end up in the fleet as important people.

Or maybe, just maybe, we can realize that the Cylons have an established history of fucking with the heads of humans and did something to them while they were on New Caprica and were triggered by the arrival of the Cylon fleet in the nebula.

Which is more likely? It seems vastly more likely that Moore was BSing yet again in that interview.

[Kane Starkiller]

Maybe all Colonials are actually first Cylons made by Earthers thousands of years ago and then they left for Kobol later to build their own version of Cylons. And then when second Cylons attacked the 12 colonies all the dead downloaded back to Earth (like Starbuck) and will be relocated back to the colonies and everyone will live happily ever after.
Rite? Am I rite?

[Enforcer Talen]

If Ron Moore is willing to suggest that the Colonials, by sheer coincidence, composed a song identical to one created on Earth, then the notion that the Colonials might also coincidentally use 60 minute hours and wear ties is not far behind.

Except the 60 minute per hour, 24 hour per day parameters is less likely than the Colonials having Jimi Hendricks transcend space and time (something I support, actually), because they are directly based on Earth parameters.

Frankly, it makes nothing but sense that the Colonials are distantly descended from colonists from Earth.



Anyway, on thinking it over, revealing the identity of four of the final five has got to be another fakeout on the writing staff's part. I know, I saw the Ron Moore interview, but it's not like he's never lied through his teeth to keep future plot points secret before. Let's look at it as if they were actually Cylons:

-Tigh is somehow mysteriously introduced into the decades before any of the rest, and shortly after the Cylons left human space as toasters rather than humalons. He happens to rise through the ranks of the various Colonial fleets, just happens to be good friends with William Adama, and in the end, just happens to be assigned to the ship that isn't blown up by the Cylons when they attacked, even though there was no way that could have been planned. Whole lot of coincidences there, huh?

-Same thing happens with Tyrol. He just happens to be assigned to the same ship as the other Final Five Cylon, the only ship in the fleet that wasn't blown up. There is also no way this could have been planned, he easily could have been on another ship, even if he did have a directive to join the military. He has no trouble reproducing, despite that we've seen an established history of Cylons not being fertile except for that one Sharon model. Huge coincidence, huh?

-Tori just happens to be the aide to the Secretary of Education and is travelling with her when the attack on the colonies happens. Roslin becomes president after the entire line of succession is killed and Tori, a Cylon, becomes the Presidential Aide. There could have been no predicting that Roslin would have been travelling when the attack happened or that the entire line of succession would be killed in the attack. Will wonders never cease?

-And Anders, who coincidently isn't killed when the colonies are attacked by indiscriminate nuking, is also a Cylon, who ends up as a resistance fighter. There is absolutely no way they could have planned for him to encounter Starbuck and then end up in the fleet with the other three Secret Cylons but he just so happened to have made it. WOW.

We can assume all those things happened and accept a truly staggering amount of coincidence that every member of the Final Five just happened to end up in the fleet as important people.

Or maybe, just maybe, we can realize that the Cylons have an established history of fucking with the heads of humans and did something to them while they were on New Caprica and were triggered by the arrival of the Cylon fleet in the nebula.

Which is more likely? It seems vastly more likely that Moore was BSing yet again in that interview.

Or, there are multiple models of th Final Five, many of whom got zapped during the first strike.

[Vympel]

Anyway, on thinking it over, revealing the identity of four of the final five has got to be another fakeout on the writing staff's part. I know, I saw the Ron Moore interview, but it's not like he's never lied through his teeth to keep future plot points secret before.

I hope he has, because I didn't like that interview. In any event, when has he lied before (curious to see his old interviews)?

-Tori just happens to be the aide to the Secretary of Education and is travelling with her when the attack on the colonies happens. Roslin becomes president after the entire line of succession is killed and Tori, a Cylon, becomes the Presidential Aide. There could have been no predicting that Roslin would have been travelling when the attack happened or that the entire line of succession would be killed in the attack. Will wonders never cease?

I just thought Tori replaced Billy from being, well, miscellaneous on the fleet. Unless she's floating around before Billy's death and I just never noticed her.

Now then, as to my observations about Starbuck's appearance at the end.

Her Viper Mk II is, as others have noted, definitely in pristine, mint condition.

Two possibilities:

1. She's been to Earth, and by some miracle they use Mk II Vipers, which they somehow gave to her, and which she somehow used to get to the nebula, so she could pull up next to Lee and tell him the wonderful news;

2. She's a Cylon, she either died/ resurrected or was picked up by the Heavy Raider we all saw in Maelstrom (ie straight ahead from behind Lee's Mk VII) and she was given a Mk II Viper the Cylons captured. Unlikely given that the Mk IIs they recovered for the Galactica museum exhibit were hard to find, but the Cylons may have gone to the trouble to load them aboard their Basestars just in case they ever needed to use them in some sort of ambush/ decoy;

Thoughts, alternatives?

[General Zod]

Maybe all Colonials are actually first Cylons made by Earthers thousands of years ago and then they left for Kobol later to build their own version of Cylons. And then when second Cylons attacked the 12 colonies all the dead downloaded back to Earth (like Starbuck) and will be relocated back to the colonies and everyone will live happily ever after.
Rite? Am I rite?

If we're to go by what's been shown before, Cylon resurrection tech does have some distance limitations. So it's doubtful everyone in the twelve colonies downloaded back to Earth, but maybe the fleet was close enough that Starbuck could have "downloaded" back there after being blown up in that storm. It would lend credence to whatshisface going on to Starbuck about how "all this has happened before".

[SirNitram]

Thoughts, alternatives?

It's not a Mk II Viper, but something mocked up to look like one. Whose FTL drive just happens to cause massive power outages when it enters a region.

[Gil Hamilton]

Or, there are multiple models of th Final Five, many of whom got zapped during the first strike.

Even with multiple Final Fives, there would be no way to place them. It's not like they could put dozens of Tighs in the fleet in hoping that one of the ships would make it, since they'd notice that. Same with Tyrol. Either of them could have easily been assigned to a ship in the fleet that was bombed when the Cylons attacked the colonies.

And there was no way of knowing that Tori would have ended up in the fleet at all, let alone as the defacto Presidents aide. Or Anders for that matter, which was completely random.

The odds are too staggering. I think it's vastly more likely that Moore was bluffing again and the Cylons simply fucked them on New Caprica.

[Gil Hamilton]

I hope he has, because I didn't like that interview. In any event, when has he lied before (curious to see his old interviews)?

What springs to mind was in his podcast when talking about the death of Starbuck and how they originally were going to have her come back with some key to the road to Earth, but decided to kill her instead. Well, guess, what? She returned with a key to the road to Earth in a decidely not dead way.

1. She's been to Earth, and by some miracle they use Mk II Vipers, which they somehow gave to her, and which she somehow used to get to the nebula, so she could pull up next to Lee and tell him the wonderful news;

It's possible if she went to Earth, the Earthlings furnished her with something she could fly based on her Viper, but with a super special awesome FTL drive in it.

[TimothyC]

What springs to mind was in his podcast when talking about the death of Starbuck and how they originally were going to have her come back with some key to the road to Earth, but decided to kill her instead. Well, guess, what? She returned with a key to the road to Earth in a decidely not dead way.

Was that in the podcast for 3*20 or 3*17?

[NeoGoomba]

The odds are too staggering. I think it's vastly more likely that Moore was bluffing again and the Cylons simply fucked them on New Caprica.

Thats why I'm guessing that if those four really are part of The Five, they were chosen to be so by the Five, not that they were always the Five. As many have said before, the coincedences are just far too great otherwise.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Going back to The Music, finales, and cliffhangers, was anybody reminded of one of the ideas Moore had for the first season's finale, which he detailed in his podcast for "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II"?

Here on Kobol, as I said earlier, there was originally the two temples. There was the temple on Kobol and the temple on Caprica. And the temple on Kobol storyline always had Baltar going into the temple and discovering something huge and amazing and ending the season on a revelation. In the first draft of "Kobol's Last Gleaming", he went into the temple and Six took him towards some subterranean passage, and it was very dark, and she said, "This is as far as I go." And he says, "What?" And she makes him go further and he's just finds himself walking in a void, a black void, and doesn't know where it's leading. And at the end of that he comes into a room and he hears music and it's a recognizable Earth-tune, to the audience and to him. It was Jimi Hendrix was playing, actually, and he goes, "God, I recognize that." And then somebody- or somebody s- a voice says, "You recognize that?" And he says, "Yes." And he turns and it's Dirk Benedict. (Laughs.) And Dirk Benedict said, "Hi. I'm God." And you just cut. We just cut out on that.

Battlestar Wiki link

[Admiral Valdemar]

I originally thought the music was from Earth, but I always dismissed it as being not possible given that'd mean the fleet was well within 100 LY of us, assuming modern day Earth is their target. That only Tigh, Tori etc. heard it is bizarre and open to speculation, when if it was a signal from our planet's EM output, the fleet would pick it up no sweat.

They can't be far from Earth anyway, given the zooming out then back in showed them within the Orion Arm of the Milky Way and barely a few thousand light years from us, though I'd have to check on the DVD or something with better quality.

I'm unable to explain Kara without it being a far more advanced civilisation that took her and souped up a ship that looks like a Mk. II Viper, or whether it's simply a mental anomaly, some sort of projection into Lee's mind. It may or may not be linked to the fleet losing power, since I doubt that was the Baltar sympathisers, though it's not impossible it was their doing, just highly improbable.

[Vympel]

Just a note, the music is not supposed to be from Earth. It's a Colonial song which just happens to have the same lyrics as an Earth song.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

I'm just re-iterating, but I have to find that version of All Along the Watchtower. Anyone know anything?

[General Zod]

I'm just re-iterating, but I have to find that version of All Along the Watchtower. Anyone know anything?

Try Youtube?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

It was recorded for the episode, so it'll be on the soundtrack for the third season in August.

Which is also when the DVD set for Season Three comes out.

[Sam Or I]

Thoughts, alternatives?

I still vote for she is all in Lees head. Star-B-Wan-Kenobi like. Her death was set up much the same way, by letting herself go and die to help out latter on as a ghostly image.

[Vympel]

She's likely not a delusion because a: she says she's not, and b: Lee got a DRADIS contact, ie. he picked her up on instruments, which did not happen with Kara saw the Heavy Raider in Maelstrom.

[Burak Gazan]

Just rewatched and checked the last scene on tape several times, and can't find anything that hasn't been seen before One thing though, when she is formating on Lee's Viper, she pulls alongside and then turns her head to look at his ship -- which is not how you usually fly formation, but that might just be a nit. If it's "what you see is real" then maybe she is real, but its still pretty weird. Cylon Base ship count is 4 on the pullback and roll before zooming in to Earth. And scratch my adrift Cylon theory, Gaeta specifically said they were on an intercept course, plus on the pullback you could (even if for a nano-second) see and hear the Cylon fighters heading inbound the fleet.

This is going to be an annoying hiatus

[Admiral Valdemar]

Yeah, I assumed the Cylons launched an attack force as soon as they jumped in and you do see a fairly massive fleet of Raiders intercepting the fleet as the camera zooms out. Whether they got affected by whatever hit the Colonial fleet, I don't know. They may well have picked up Kara's ghost Viper dotting about too, unless they know more than they let on about Earth and the 13th.

[tim31]

I keep getting the creeps seeing these words on battlestarwiki:



The Chief is a character close to my heart, so I actually feel weird about it; I'd even go as far as to say that it reminds me of how I felt when I found out my older sister has a different father.

Anyone else? Or am I alone in being a bit emo about a favorite character's stunning revelation?

[Braedley]

Well he has told stories about pouncing around in his mother or father's (or grandparent'?) study nude with a porno magazine. Then again that could be an implanted memory if he is a cylon.

[tim31]

It was his mother's prayer room. Just to stick it to religion.