Moderator: NecronLord
Mainstream (616) Cap never made it past private. At least Steven Rogers was always a private (who constantly disappeared).CaptainChewbacca wrote: Question to the marvel-ites; Did Steve Rogers ever actually get commissioned as a Captain in the US Army, either in the movie or comics?
Eh, it's kind of explicit, not really subtextual.Broomstick wrote:Ah, good point.
Now there is an actual example of subtext.
Those tactical decisions make sense regardless of whether his goal is "protect civilians" or "kill aliens." Really, his 'use' of the others is based on "protect civilians by killing aliens," and that actually makes a lot of sense under the circumstances.Ted C wrote:All of Cap's tactical decisions are based on minimizing civilian casualties. He sends Thor to block the portal, limiting the number of enemies coming through. He sends Iron Man to create a perimeter, keeping the enemy from spreading out where they can cause more damage. Hawkeye goes to a rooftop to watch enemy movements and direct the defense. He and Widow stay on the ground to draw the attackers away from civilians. Hulk... well, Hulk gets to go smash, but that's about as sophisticated a command as he can be expected to understand.Simon_Jester wrote:But Cap? He's not just fighting for the sake of fighting. Over and over, we see him coordinating people on the ground, ordering police and military to protect civilians, risking his own life to protect civilians, and so on. So I think his "stick up for the little guy" behavior is made clear enough, if his scene with Loki in Stuttgart where he stands up to Loki (who is obviously more powerful) doesn't already prove the point.
It's a chest wound, Colson was caught kind of by surprise by the whole thing (it seems like he just ran to the armory and grabbed the biggest gun he could find), and we don't know if SHIELD even has anything that can stabilize a sucking chest wound like that.MKSheppard wrote:Agent Colson:
1A.) Agent Colson goes into talk-talk mode instead of just shooting Loki the moment he steps into the cage room; though he may have been trying to buy time to figure out how to use the gun -- but wouldn't you figure out how to shoot it FIRST before you went looking for the bad guy?
1B.) Why doesn't Colson have a super awesome SHIELD issue first aid kit that can stabilize someone long enough for medical assistance to arrive? I mean, we already have tourqinets in issue in the military that can be tightened with a single hand, etc.
Working hypothesis: the helicarrier actually listed after one of the engines was sabotaged, and we saw aircraft spilling off the deck. Then Thor and the Hulk trashed the shit out of other parts of the hangar. The battle damage may have been severe enough that they weren't able to launch F-35Cs or whatever for a few hours until the elevators were patched up. They may also have had relatively few F-35s in flyable condition that hadn't been damaged by shrapnel or Loki's commandos or the Incredible Hulk taking a crap on them or whatever.The SHIELD Helicarrier and it's onboard arsenal:
New York City is getting flattened by an alien invasion force; and what does Fury/SHIELD do? Absolutely nothing, despite the HeliCarrier being full of all sorts of killfuckery goodness -- remember that despite the heavy damage inflicted on it by the battle royale earlier aboard, nothing stopped it from trying to launch F-35s.
So where was the huge swarm of F-35s and VTOLOLs full of SHIELD operatives to assist the Not-Yet-Avengers in the NYC battle?
It was close enough that the F-35 with a nuke was only a few minutes or so flight time from the city...
That's actually a damn good point. Some air support could have made a huge difference, and could be show in just a couple shots without detracting form the Avenger's efforts in any way.The SHIELD Helicarrier and it's onboard arsenal:
New York City is getting flattened by an alien invasion force; and what does Fury/SHIELD do? Absolutely nothing, despite the HeliCarrier being full of all sorts of killfuckery goodness -- remember that despite the heavy damage inflicted on it by the battle royale earlier aboard, nothing stopped it from trying to launch F-35s.
So where was the huge swarm of F-35s and VTOLOLs full of SHIELD operatives to assist the Not-Yet-Avengers in the NYC battle?
It was close enough that the F-35 with a nuke was only a few minutes or so flight time from the city...
Why would this be a problem?Simon_Jester wrote:Initially, I was very worried about Joss Whedon writing AND directing the movie; because you all know how he likes to turn up the power on his female leads -- the grotesque reaver vs river tam battle in Serenity being Exhibit A in why I was worried.
I actually wanted to see the Helicarrier in action against the aliens, but was disappointed that they only had cops and one National Guard Humvee as "regular soldier" support for the Avengers :/.Ahriman238 wrote:That's actually a damn good point. Some air support could have made a huge difference, and could be show in just a couple shots without detracting form the Avenger's efforts in any way.
Dude, stop being a retard and a liar. We know damn well that Bakustra posts there on a different handle, just like DXIII. I'm pretty sure (but don't exactly recall) that even Stosfk responded to one of Bakustra's comments in NT regarding the Avengers.Zablorg wrote:I think you'll find that we have no-one by that name!
No. Just no. What sort of mental gymnastics do you need to reach this conclusion? Loki is a megalomaniac and more of a sly and sneaky bent. He is the anti-thesis of Thor’s forthright and honest behavior. If you think this means gay-coded, you need to go back to the Homosexual Agenda Training Compound and have your gaydar recalibrated, and remove your own anti-gay bigotry because that is what this is. It is the association of negative or otherwise undesirable traits with gayness. Bigotry.Having seen this just a few days ago, one thing that really stood out for me is how they made Loki so obviously gay and something of a predatory rapist. I'm not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, representation, but on the other hand, it's still subtext (though only barely so) and really, having the only gay-coded character being effectively a rapist doesn't sit too well with me.
This right here is all the commentary that needs to be made with respect to the fascism.What happens after the Avengers save the day? They all move on with their lives, hardly the act of fascists dominating the lives of the little people.
He did not only target men. We see him hit men, but he had more minions than that in his little base, including, as I recall, women. Additionally, it is a fucking spear, and he is a motherfucking Viking. What do you expect him to have? What weapon in the history of mankind does not have some sort of stock, shaft, or barrel that could be construed by some over-sensitive “more progressive than thou art” waste of oxygen as representing a penis, or that one cannot make penis jokes about?It's the misogyny combined with an explicitly phallic glowstick that the movie points out is phallic, the targeting of men and men only, the scene where he brags about his conquest of Hawkeye to Black Widow, the sexualization of his mind-control in its description by its victims... we don't even have to look at his gestures or choice of words, which are enough to make many other characters campy and thus flaming to people in the know.
Which makes the supervillain what? Oh, that is right. An asshole. Is that shocking to anyone? The guy who killed 80 people in two days cannot also be a sexist? Or he cannot tailor his speech in such a way as to deliberately strike at someone he hates?But the biggest sign is probably Loki calling Black Widow a quim.
Given that this is probably just the NT Old Boys Club talking, I think I'll ignore your feeble threatsLosonti Tokash wrote:Zinegata: your following Bakustra around the internet is creepy and your use of "retard" is offensive. Cut it out, please.
. No. The use of retard is offensive. I am also not in the old boys club, and adults are talking. You are not an adult, therefore you need to go sit at the little kid's table.Zinegata wrote:Given that this is probably just the NT Old Boys Club talking, I think I'll ignore your feeble threatsLosonti Tokash wrote:Zinegata: your following Bakustra around the internet is creepy and your use of "retard" is offensive. Cut it out, please.
Go whine to someone who cares, and let the topic start rolling again.
Ok, sure. So can now we get back to the more interesting bits instead of the the NT drama?Alyrium Denryle wrote:No. The use of retard is offensive.
Dude, chill out. I didn't make any threats, I made a polite request. If you don't want "NT drama," then I would suggest you stop bringing it up.Zinegata wrote:Given that this is probably just the NT Old Boys Club talking, I think I'll ignore your feeble threatsLosonti Tokash wrote:Zinegata: your following Bakustra around the internet is creepy and your use of "retard" is offensive. Cut it out, please.
Go whine to someone who cares, and let the topic start rolling again.
Ok, sorry. I guess I was still pissed because Zalborg was off lying about how Bakustra ain't posting in NT.Losonti Tokash wrote:Dude, chill out. I didn't make any threats, I made a polite request.
I didn't say that. Shep did.Ford Prefect wrote:Why would this be a problem?Simon_Jester wrote:Initially, I was very worried about Joss Whedon writing AND directing the movie; because you all know how he likes to turn up the power on his female leads -- the grotesque reaver vs river tam battle in Serenity being Exhibit A in why I was worried.
As noted... seriously, calm down. Calling Bakustra out on perceived bad behavior is one thing. Ranting randomly about the Testingstan Conspiracy hours and hours after the last time he even showed up on the damn thread is another.Zinegata wrote:Dude, stop being a retard and a liar. We know damn well that Bakustra posts there on a different handle, just like DXIII. I'm pretty sure (but don't exactly recall) that even Stosfk responded to one of Bakustra's comments in NT regarding the Avengers.Zablorg wrote:I think you'll find that we have no-one by that name!
You guys are free to have your own private little forum. Most of your guys seem pretty sane and cool. But stop being such a whiny bitch whenever Bakustra or one of your other retards gets called out for using SDN (which they apparently hate anyway) as their trolling board so that they look big to their clique.
Wow, that is bizarre. I just clicked the quote button in the topic review, too. Only testing it just now, it worked properly. Spooky lolSimon_Jester wrote:I didn't say that. Shep did.
Dude, come on. I got it after Alyrium. Seriously, if it ain't clear: Sorry guys.Simon_Jester wrote:As noted... seriously, calm down.
Movie verse Cap is an officer (you see his US Army uniform in the stand alone movie) probably a captain but I'm not 100%Tsyroc wrote:Mainstream (616) Cap never made it past private. At least Steven Rogers was always a private (who constantly disappeared).CaptainChewbacca wrote: Question to the marvel-ites; Did Steve Rogers ever actually get commissioned as a Captain in the US Army, either in the movie or comics?
Ultimate Cap looks like he really was commissioned as a Captain. At least he's been called a Captain while he's in his military uniform.
IIRC, his rank was pretty much political at first, but he obviously came to earn it after he rescued the Howling Commandos and the other soldiers.Lord Revan wrote:Movie verse Cap is an officer (you see his US Army uniform in the stand alone movie) probably a captain but I'm not 100%Tsyroc wrote:Mainstream (616) Cap never made it past private. At least Steven Rogers was always a private (who constantly disappeared).CaptainChewbacca wrote: Question to the marvel-ites; Did Steve Rogers ever actually get commissioned as a Captain in the US Army, either in the movie or comics?
Ultimate Cap looks like he really was commissioned as a Captain. At least he's been called a Captain while he's in his military uniform.
yeah I seems to remember it was so too (it's been a while since I last watched it).SAMAS wrote:IIRC, his rank was pretty much political at first, but he obviously came to earn it after he rescued the Howling Commandos and the other soldiers.
