Avatar review thread

[PeZook]

No but it is stated in some of the supplemental material plus there's the fact taht the mountains are in teh middle of a massive magnetic flux and then there's also the floating chunk of unobtanium in Selfridge's office.

Well, I haven't seen much supplemental material, and AFAIK the "flux vortex" is never tied to unobtainium in the movie itself.

I don't see it as much of a mistake. The shuttle would have been easier to take down with the helicopter that's for sure, however the Dragon still needed to be brought down since it would still be fully capable of leveling the area, just without the 'we just blew an enormous hole in your culture with one shot' shock and awe daisy cutter attack.

The Dragon is a "softer" target, though: it can be brought down by banshee riders, since it's essentially a larger Scorpion gunship with a cargo hold and more hardpoints. The shuttle, on the other hand, was just too freakin' large for Banshees, and it carried most of the mission's firepower, too. As an added bonus, loosing a shuttle means the RDA's mining operations are severely impaired, since they only had two and they were necessary both for refuelling the starships and shipping unobtainium to orbit. Hell, killing the shuttle might've brought the entire operation to its knees due to budgetary concerns, seeing as its a ridiculously advanced SSTO/VTOL spacecraft - even if the Na'Vi lost the tree of souls and most of their gathered warriors in the end.

[Crazedwraith]

(repost from another forum, not read the thread entire)

Saw Avatar. Not with the 3D but still it can only be summed up as: JAMES CAMERON, FUCK YEAH!

Fuck that was a long film though: I had a nice cornetto in the interval.

That dragon vs copter scene followed by the mercs vs the whole damn planet was the most epic thing I have every scene. It was emmense and what was really amazing was the way they'd managed to not show the humans and na'vi together for qite some time before that so it really hammered home the size differences when the dragons whom I'd mentally scaled with the na'vi being human sized. Then you seem them drop on the gunships and throw them around like toys.

Coolest. thing. ever.

The only thing I was expecting that didn't happen was that little scientist guy whose avatar got killed in the fight to try and attack the raving insane colonel merc while he was in the mecha during the finale fight.

[Shroom Man 777]

Exactly. The scientists were all about 'Let us study you while we play the role of 'magic enlightened sky people''. Jake, on the other hand, approached them largely with humility and a total acceptance to do whatever was asked of them.

Do you think ANY of the scientists studying the Na'vi spent weeks falling in the mud and getting their asses kicked?

They wouldn't have bothered with Jake at all, and would've killed him even, if it weren't for those daffodil-jellyfish things that floated all around him because he was The Chosen One.

[Highlord Laan]

Exactly. The scientists were all about 'Let us study you while we play the role of 'magic enlightened sky people''. Jake, on the other hand, approached them largely with humility and a total acceptance to do whatever was asked of them.

Do you think ANY of the scientists studying the Na'vi spent weeks falling in the mud and getting their asses kicked?

They wouldn't have bothered with Jake at all, and would've killed him even, if it weren't for those daffodil-jellyfish things that floated all around him because he was The Chosen One.

Plot armor. He's the Hero of the story.

The method used in the original script to bring Jake into the Na'vi was a better one. He caught the princess' eye because he impressed her with pure balls-out bravery, and she decided to pursue him. The puff balls came later. I like that setup better.

[Anguirus]

^ They didn't need the puff balls to be in the movie at all. I hated that scene.

[PeZook]

Yeah, it was terrible. What did it even mean? That the frickin' planet can see into the future? Read Sully's mind? Ugh. It was completely unnecessary, too, seeing as Sully's Hot Alien Chick (I forget her name...) already commented he was soooooo dreamy brave...

[Andrew_Fireborn]

So, we saw it last night. Indeed it's an interesting spectacle...

I do agree that a lot of the information that got cut from 880 to Avatar was needed... Especially the whole Home-tree deposit versus Mountain's being mostly unobtanium... Even just from the in-movie stuff you have to wonder how there's more magic-floating rock under the tree versus in the FLYING MOUNTAINS... Assuming you remember the practically throw away scene showing the mineral...

The Universal Serial Tenticle was... interesting... I've got to side with the "Most likely designed ecosystem" argument... Which leads me to my final thoughts on the story in general...

The whole resource war is a little silly. I can't honestly see the Na'vi ever developing the technology to escape their dirtball, which means their lifespan will never exceed their solar system's. So, really they've "won" the ability to hoard their rocks until their sun decides to reclaim them. And who's to say the next ship won't just drop bowling balls from LEO. If they want it badly enough, and pay their crews enough, they'll be back and they'll be much more ruthless.

Though, that really begs the question of how the rock came to be. Something like Niblonians? Some exotic chemical catalysm by their atmosphere's composition?



Only creature that, in the end, bugged the hell out of me was those little whirling lizard bugs... That -can't- be useful for anything other than maybe a poor threat display... They certainly weren't going anywhere fast in the scenes they were in... Though, they're probably poisonous.

The rest were alien enough, but still probable... though I dislike the amount of "exposed skull" on the land predators... The neck-nostrils were odd... but plausible given whales and the like on Earth. But it's another thing that made the Na'vi stand rather far out from the other Pandoran creatures...

[Zac Naloen]

Yeah, it was terrible. What did it even mean? That the frickin' planet can see into the future? Read Sully's mind? Ugh. It was completely unnecessary, too, seeing as Sully's Hot Alien Chick (I forget her name...) already commented he was soooooo dreamy brave...

I figured that it just meant that Pandora knew that he isn't like the other humans and not to kill him yet.

[Coyote]

Bingo, what Zac said. The soul tree could tell that this one was different, not so confrontational and didn't have a big chip on his shoulder and was genuinely curious rather than just looking for a way to get the Na'vi to do what the humans wanted. The way a dog, for example, can tell hostility or fear from humans, in a way. The tree decided to give this one a chance. Not like they couldn't kill him later, after all.

[Crazedwraith]

I do agree that a lot of the information that got cut from 880 to Avatar was needed... Especially the whole Home-tree deposit versus Mountain's being mostly unobtanium... Even just from the in-movie stuff you have to wonder how there's more magic-floating rock under the tree versus in the FLYING MOUNTAINS... Assuming you remember the practically throw away scene showing the mineral...

Wasn't the Soul Tree actually in the midst of the flying mountains? Hence why the gunships had to fly under them and make themselves vulnerable to drop dragon attack?

[Shroom Man 777]

Bingo, what Zac said. The soul tree could tell that this one was different, not so confrontational and didn't have a big chip on his shoulder and was genuinely curious rather than just looking for a way to get the Na'vi to do what the humans wanted. The way a dog, for example, can tell hostility or fear from humans, in a way. The tree decided to give this one a chance. Not like they couldn't kill him later, after all.

Arguably, the same can be said for all the other non-militant scientists in Avatars. Grace wasn't confrontational, didn't have a big chip, and she's also genuinely curious and was totally not exploitative towards the Na'vi. But Jake's the hero, and if the soul tree sends fluffy floating jellyfish at him to indicate his destiny as the chosen one, that's fine by me.

[Coyote]

Arguably, the same can be said for all the other non-militant scientists in Avatars. Grace wasn't confrontational, didn't have a big chip, and she's also genuinely curious and was totally not exploitative towards the Na'vi. But Jake's the hero, and if the soul tree sends fluffy floating jellyfish at him to indicate his destiny as the chosen one, that's fine by me.

Well, Grace wasn't about to get offed by a neurotoxin-dipped arrow, too, so the soultree had to make a display Right Now. But it is telling that Grace obviously had free run of the tribal area, was allowed to engage anyone (even the children) in conversation without preamble, and when the Lifetree was shot down the Na'vi made an effort to save her Avatar by dragging it to safety in a travois.

Still, the scientists did approach with the idea that they were going to teach the Na'vi English, and "schools and roads", without much thought to what the Na'vi could have taught them. Hence the comment by the shaman-woman about filling a cup that is already full. The scientists were certainly friendly and accepted, but also had their own agendas and already-accepted notions about the Na'vi-- everything to that point centered on getting the Na'vi to do/accept something they didn't want, and to accomodate the humans' desires. Jake, OTOH, didn't really have a direct interest in the unobtanium; it was an abstract goal at best for him since he would never directly benefit from it. His direct goal was to get his legs back, and when he started his mission, "buddying up to the natives" was the proscribed way to do it. So he went in with that goal in mind, not convincing them to do something they resisted.

It was also interesting to note that, once he became a Na'vi (as an Avatar, at first), he got his legs back right then and there. I may be reading too much into it, but he may have associated "Na'vi = legs" and had a visceral favorable reaction to them that defied logic. Helped by the fact that he'd not spent three years getting thoroughly indoctrinated to treat the Na'vi as a problem to be solved. He basically had an instant connoctation of "joy" with "Na'vi".

[Manus Celer Dei]

One thing that bugged me was that in the first scene with the Avatars there's a whole mess of them in that training ground and bunkhouse-thing, but after that basically none of them except Sully, Grace and Other Guy show up again. Were they sent off to deal with the other tribes or something I missed, or was it just they got forgotten about?

[Bladed_Crescent]

One thing that bugged me was that in the first scene with the Avatars there's a whole mess of them in that training ground and bunkhouse-thing, but after that basically none of them except Sully, Grace and Other Guy show up again. Were they sent off to deal with the other tribes or something I missed, or was it just they got forgotten about?

Presumably the Omaticaya chieftain's 'kill on sight' orders for all "dreamwalkers" was keeping them close to home. It took several weeks for Jake to convince them just to let Grace back into the tribe and she seemed to be well-liked. It would probably burn a lot of goodwill to get all the other avatars allowed back onto Omaticaya lands, particularly if they didn't have the same good standing that Grace had with the Na'vi.

The risk of souring relations with the natives and getting a five-foot arrow in the head of a multi-million dollar investment probably kept the other avatars out of the picture while Jake worked with the Na'vi. That's what I took out of it, anyways.

[Coyote]

In the official James Cameron's Avatar Wiki it is stated that there was at least one other tribe that was being contacted regularly, but since it didn't have any minerals under their land they were probably low priority.

When Jake was calling the tribes together, at least one of the other tribes had some English spoken; also at the end of the show, when the humans are being rounded up and sent home, a couple of Na'vi are wearing clothes and packing rifles, so they are probably some of the other Avatars, humans that elected to remain.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

Wasn't the Soul Tree actually in the midst of the flying mountains? Hence why the gunships had to fly under them and make themselves vulnerable to drop dragon attack?

That's probably the stated goal in 880. But in the movie, the deposit is under Home-Tree, and they want to blow up Soul Tree for a Shock and Awe preemptive strike.

[Shroom Man 777]

The scientists in avatars, like Ripley, were also using their avatars to just walk around in the jungle collecting specimens and doing research. While they were unable to contact the Na'vi tribe, having a body that can breathe in Pandoran atmosphere without the need for gas masks with limited oxygen supplies is really valuable for research.

[PeZook]

On another note:

X-33 Venture Star

Reminds people of anything?

[Shroom Man 777]

On another note:

X-33 Venture Star

Reminds people of anything?

No. I'm sorry.


Also, I realized that the Marine Captain McBadass was a complete badass man. After Jake chucked a missile at that Dragon of theirs, McBadass didn't even give a fuck that he was on fire, he just got on his fucking killbot and jumped ship while everything caught fire and exploded, and he didn't even notice that he was on fire! Man. What a badass!

[Crazedwraith]

And when Sully and co make off with the chopper he's so intent on shooting them the fuck up; he fails to remember he can't breather in the hanger... And he just takes the mask from the marine that's trying to help him just so nonchalantly. It's like he gets so fixating on killing things he forgets about little luxuries like air.

[Shroom Man 777]

That happened too when he was having his badass KNIFE FIGHT with Sully and the Na'vi chick. He's too busy with the intent to killfuck that he forgets to breathe, he's like the goddamn Batman who can breathe in space. Holy crap, man.

[PeZook]

No. I'm sorry.

The mining shuttles, man. I think I'm in love with them, to be honest: that scene where the huge-ass shuttle levels on its final approach to the Soul Tree surrounded by swarms of gunships that look like tiny little gnats compared to the lumbering beast...it was made of awesome.

[Shroom Man 777]

I was kidding, mang.

You also forgot how awesome it was for the bigass space shuttle to have fucking machine gun nests on it.

[Coyote]

Straying off topic, but thinking of Cameron's movies and Spileberg's, I sure am glad that Cameron knows how/when to end a movie, and do it well. Spielberg doesn't know how to end a damn movie. It just... keeps... going....

And, since Avatar may have a sequel (plus in the wiki, Saldana and Worthington are both signed for a trilogy "if the first movie is successful") there's a chance that the follow-on movie(s) may address a lot of the stuff left outin this one for time, and may feature more of Earth's predicament.

[GrayAnderson]

One thing that bugged me was that in the first scene with the Avatars there's a whole mess of them in that training ground and bunkhouse-thing, but after that basically none of them except Sully, Grace and Other Guy show up again. Were they sent off to deal with the other tribes or something I missed, or was it just they got forgotten about?

Presumably the Omaticaya chieftain's 'kill on sight' orders for all "dreamwalkers" was keeping them close to home. It took several weeks for Jake to convince them just to let Grace back into the tribe and she seemed to be well-liked. It would probably burn a lot of goodwill to get all the other avatars allowed back onto Omaticaya lands, particularly if they didn't have the same good standing that Grace had with the Na'vi.

The risk of souring relations with the natives and getting a five-foot arrow in the head of a multi-million dollar investment probably kept the other avatars out of the picture while Jake worked with the Na'vi. That's what I took out of it, anyways.

Considering the possibility of the 1-in-100 avatars taking scenario mentioned in the 880 script, you might even change "million" to "billion", depending on the cost of the unit; at the very least, though, you're looking at mid-to-high nine figures per unit (assuming the $1 million/lb shipping cost, which seems reasonable alongside everything else, you're looking at up to, if not over, half a billion per avatar/operator team just to get them from A to B depending on what those things and their tanks weigh). If you've got to ship out any other support stuff, just start throwing more money into things.

Another thought: The ships can take 350 tons of stuff back to Earth. Now, I'm going to assume that a lot of the $1 million/lb cost (again, not negated in the movie so I'll run with it) includes a nasty fixed cost for the ship itself one way, that the fixed cost covers the crew, and assumes fairly close to a full load. Basically, your 350 tons includes anything you're tacking onto the ship (workers, rocks, and other supplies). If this is the case, a single run with a ship costs $700 billion dollars, possibly each way. *ahem* A $1.4 trillion round trip airfare is equivalent to more than the projected GDP of Spain next year, and is close to 10% of the US's GDP for next year. Assuming that the movie is speaking in "real" terms...all I've got to say is damn, especially if that cost has come down at all since the first mission.