Avengers (Spoilers)

[Marko Dash]

we know LMDs are present in the movie verse, IIRC tony mentioned them in his first attempt at avoiding the call.

[Simon_Jester]

What the heck is an LMD?

[Crazedwraith]

What the heck is an LMD?

What is this LMD people keep mentioning? Something from the comics, I assume.

Marvel comics has "Life Model Decoys" that are artificial duplicates of people that might be targeted for assassination.

In the movie, Stark says when Coulson goes to Stark Tower, "You've reach the life model decoy of Tony Stark" which I'm hoping was a throw away joke and not something they're going to use in the actual movies.

[Ahriman238]

What the heck is an LMD?

Life Model Decoy.

An android duplicate of a person that is sent to deal with annoying or hazardous situations. Mostly, it's something Fury uses and has at least a dozen of. IIRC a couple villains have used them to fake their deaths, hence the speculation that Coulson was an LMD. There's a throwaway line in the movie where Stark answers his video phone and claims to be "the Life Model Decoy of Tony Stark."

EDIT: ninja'd.

[Simon_Jester]

I would much rather they go for "Coulson received medical treatment by some strange means and was revived" than "Coulson was actually a robot duplicate!"

Why would they even bother sending robo-Coulson down to deal with Loki in that case? Why not send a fully generic killbot? Say, one that was relatively knife-proof?

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

If the Coulson that confronted Loki actually is a robot decoy that would have been a terrible choice by the film makers because it both makes little sense and hurts the film. Why wouldn't Coulson's decoy have acted more recklessly so as to keep Loki from killing Thor? Why would Fury have seemed upset? Why was there blood? And if it was a robot all along, it ruins Coulson's "hey, I'm probably dying here, so just make sure you use my death as best you can, ok?" act at the end.

Are people suggesting LMDs because they want it or because they think it's what actually happened? The movies have done a fairly good job of avoiding comic book bullshit so far.

[YT300000]

Having Coulson turn out to be an LMD would be quite the cop-out, but that doesn't mean that LMDs are inherently a bad idea - the Deltite takeover of S.H.I.E.L.D. could be a great story arc for the Nick Fury movie.

[evilsoup]

I really, really hope Coulsen stays dead. Any method of bringing him back to life would be infinitely lame and remove the only remotely interesting thing about the character.

[CarsonPalmer]

I really, really hope Coulsen stays dead. Any method of bringing him back to life would be infinitely lame and remove the only remotely interesting thing about the character.

Yeah...I liked Coulson's character so I can't agree with you there, but any way of bringing him back cheapens his death.

[SAMAS]

It is however, exactly the kind of think Fury would do (ref: the cards) to get the Avengers fired up.

[Simon_Jester]

If Coulson simply survived the injury- "reports of my death were greatly exaggerated," with a cut to images of doctors trying frantically to revive him- I'd be happy with that. Anything much more convoluted would seem cheap.

Bonus points if Coulson survives the injury but is demonstrably weakened physically afterwards- say, he's confined to a desk job.

[Mr Bean]

Yeah...I liked Coulson's character so I can't agree with you there, but any way of bringing him back cheapens his death.

Unless Coulson was ordered dead by Fury. I'd love to see in the next Cap movie he gets into trouble and who comes to save him but Coulson and other shield agents, as for why he had to play dead he just brushes it off as "Fury ordered me to stay dead, he thought it would help the team". You see heroic sacrifice potential while I see dick move on Fury's part potential and a great way to set him up as someone they need but someone they can not be friends with.

[CaptainChewbacca]

What if Coulson was either always a robot or as an alternative, what if he's too useful as a government liason so after the New York incident they start letting an LMD of Coulson walk around doing his job?

[Crazedwraith]

I think Fury totally faking Coulson's death rather than just doing the card thing to give the avenge a nudge in the right direction would be a bit of a bad move on his part. The Avenger's probably wouldn't be happy if they found out he was pulling their strings like that.

Of course it depends how far ahead you credit Fury with thinking. Faking the death might give decent short term boost to the team and if he thinks there isn't going to be a long term if he doesn't motivate the avengers then he might go for it anyway.

[evilsoup]

'Coulson - but I thought you were dead! It was very tragic (or it would have been if there had been any reason for the audience to care about you) and galvanized the team!'
'I got better.'

That would just be... worse than most comic book deaths, and those are always fucking stupid anyway. I don't think it would be worth the stupidity just to bring back a personalityless character who only existed to deliver exposition anyway.

Man

[SAMAS]

The problem with most Comic Book Deaths/Resurrections is that they're done cheaply. They die, heroes mourn. Sometime later, they get brought back, and by the end of the story it's as if they were never gone in the first place.

To do it right, just leave out that last part. Play up the consequences. The Avengers feeling a mixture of relief that he's back and anger at him (and especially Fury) for deceiving them. Coulson trying to regain their trust, and the like. Stuff like that could make up an entire subplot for an Avengers Sequel, or the movieverse as a whole leading up to Avengers 2.

[evilsoup]

Do you really find Coulson interesting enough to want to devote an entire sub-plot of one of the movies to him?

[Simon_Jester]

I don't. It'd have to be something that's either somehow plot significant in its own right, or something that can be settled in one or two minutes of screen time tops.

[MrDakka]

the Deltite takeover of S.H.I.E.L.D. could be a great story arc for the Nick Fury movie.

Man that's an old arc, before my time, I had to look it up.

From what I found online, I'd have to agree. Fits in perfectly with the whole paranoia of Nick Fury. Quick question though, could did this have inspired the Secret Invasion storyline?

[YT300000]

the Deltite takeover of S.H.I.E.L.D. could be a great story arc for the Nick Fury movie.

Man that's an old arc, before my time, I had to look it up.

From what I found online, I'd have to agree. Fits in perfectly with the whole paranoia of Nick Fury. Quick question though, could did this have inspired the Secret Invasion storyline?

The 2008 Skrull Invasion arc? I haven't actually read that one, as I've only read comics sporadically since 2006 or so. But it seems to follow the same themes, which makes sense. It's the most compelling kind of story you can write about the world's greatest spy.

As for inspiration, it's interesting to note that the 1988 Nick Fury vs. S.H.I.E.L.D. arc started exactly a month after the Star Trek TNG episode Conspiracy, which was about members of Starfleet high command being mind-controlled by alien parasites. So that was probably a source of inspiration as well.

[Cykeisme]

The character was excellent, but it's more dramatic if he's actually dead.
Coulson knew the risks of going up against Loki single-handedly, that it would almost certainly get him killed, but he did it anyway. It cheapens his sacrifice if he isn't dead.

Faking the death might give decent short term boost to the team and if he thinks there isn't going to be a long term if he doesn't motivate the avengers then he might go for it anyway.

That sounds incredibly like a paraphrase of something movie-continuity Fury would actually say. I can almost imagine it in SLJ's voice.
Perhaps the "make the team realize Fury does whatever it takes, even if it means being an asshole" dramatic angle is worth the price of removing the drama of Coulson's death.

[Broomstick]

As for inspiration, it's interesting to note that the 1988 Nick Fury vs. S.H.I.E.L.D. arc started exactly a month after the Star Trek TNG episode Conspiracy, which was about members of Starfleet high command being mind-controlled by alien parasites. So that was probably a source of inspiration as well.

Can't be - the lead time for a comic book is several months at a minimum.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

I saw the movie again and at the very end, the agent standing in the middle of the bridge whom Agent Hill passes could look like Coulson (a balding man with very short, dark hair). The camera was far enough away that he could also very easily not look like Coulson. If they put that as an easter egg they certainly left enough plausible deniability, which is good because if they don't have damn good payoff to make up for it they really shouldn't be bringing comic-book-death and other bullshit into the movie franchise.

[Majin Gojira]

I just feel like reminding people that the last time Joss Whedon ressurected a super hero, there were long term consequences out the wazoo. Colossus, in Astonishing X-Men--revived by aliens who turns out to be that race's version of the anti-christ (it works, these aliens were that stupid, with cultural aspects that should have driven them to extinction millennia ago) and issues with interpersonal relationships everywhere.

And then he killed another X-person at the end of that arc to balance the tables. Because that's how he rolls.

Then there was the time he resurrected Buffy for a second time--and we got an entire season worth of post traumatic stress disorder from her as, it turns out, she was ripped out from a heavenly place.

Given those two precedents, I'm sure that if Coulson does return, there will be consequences.

Whether it'll be good or not is still 50/50 though. Season 6 was mostly crap compared to the rest of Buffy.

[YT300000]

As for inspiration, it's interesting to note that the 1988 Nick Fury vs. S.H.I.E.L.D. arc started exactly a month after the Star Trek TNG episode Conspiracy, which was about members of Starfleet high command being mind-controlled by alien parasites. So that was probably a source of inspiration as well.

Can't be - the lead time for a comic book is several months at a minimum.

Does it really take that long? Obviously Marvel wasn't double-shipping everything back then, but I thought they already had the 3-team structure in place and had cut turnaround times way down to better compete with DC's resurgence?