Avengers (Spoilers)

[Galvatron]

I just feel like reminding people that the last time Joss Whedon ressurected a super hero, there were long term consequences out the wazoo.

He also gave us Ripley 8 in Alien Resurrection. Shitty movie, but it's vintage Whedon.

[Broomstick]

As for inspiration, it's interesting to note that the 1988 Nick Fury vs. S.H.I.E.L.D. arc started exactly a month after the Star Trek TNG episode Conspiracy, which was about members of Starfleet high command being mind-controlled by alien parasites. So that was probably a source of inspiration as well.

Can't be - the lead time for a comic book is several months at a minimum.

Does it really take that long? Obviously Marvel wasn't double-shipping everything back then, but I thought they already had the 3-team structure in place and had cut turnaround times way down to better compete with DC's resurgence?

I'm sure some things have changed since I worked for them (in a very minor capacity) but when I was involved it was typically 4-6 months from story concept to publication. Remember, some of this moves at the speed of people, not pixels. You need someone to write the story, do the pencils (by hand), do the inks (by hand), the lettering (at the time I was in, that was still by hand but moving to computer), then off to the colorist who also needs time to do their thing, then final editing, any changes that need to be made, THEN off to the printer. This takes time. When I was working with Linda and Bill Reinhold (I got my foot in the door working as their assistant) we'd essentially have the penciler, inker, letter, and colorist all in the same room and while you might think that would cut down on the time involved it really didn't. As long as you have human hands involved you can only speed things up so much.

Now, for a one time situation where you are willing and able to pull in multiple versions of each type of artist to work simultaneously it might be possible - but really tough to get all those personal styles coordinated.

Or I could be talking out of my ass since the last time I colored the khaki on a bad guy's camo outfit or did the t-shirts in a crowd scene or painted the trees/bushes/grass in a background was something like 20 years ago so yeah, it could have changed. But I don't think the speed at which the average artist's hand draws/inks/whatever had changed in that time.

[YT300000]

I'm sure some things have changed since I worked for them (in a very minor capacity) but when I was involved it was typically 4-6 months from story concept to publication. Remember, some of this moves at the speed of people, not pixels. You need someone to write the story, do the pencils (by hand), do the inks (by hand), the lettering (at the time I was in, that was still by hand but moving to computer), then off to the colorist who also needs time to do their thing, then final editing, any changes that need to be made, THEN off to the printer. This takes time. When I was working with Linda and Bill Reinhold (I got my foot in the door working as their assistant) we'd essentially have the penciler, inker, letter, and colorist all in the same room and while you might think that would cut down on the time involved it really didn't. As long as you have human hands involved you can only speed things up so much.

Now, for a one time situation where you are willing and able to pull in multiple versions of each type of artist to work simultaneously it might be possible - but really tough to get all those personal styles coordinated.

Or I could be talking out of my ass since the last time I colored the khaki on a bad guy's camo outfit or did the t-shirts in a crowd scene or painted the trees/bushes/grass in a background was something like 20 years ago so yeah, it could have changed. But I don't think the speed at which the average artist's hand draws/inks/whatever had changed in that time.

That sounds like it was a great experience, thanks for sharing it! Now I can go back to enjoying both stories without worrying about which came first. And honestly, thanks in general for all of your posts - they're always excellent, insightful, and great fun to read.

[Jim Raynor]

I can't believe some fans are trying to come up with strained explanations to bring Coulson back from the dead. I saw some try-hard language in the character's Wikipedia page, to the effect of "well the camera didn't dwell on him after he lost consciousness, and we know that Fury exaggerated his death."

Then again, no one should be surprised. People do this every time a well-liked minor character bites the dust. I remember how after Revenge of the Sith, there were people desperately arguing that Aayla Secura (blue Twi'lek Jedi played but hot blonde) wasn't actually confirmed as dead. As if lying face down in the dirt while an entire squad of clone troopers riddled her with laser fire wasn't clear enough.

[The Romulan Republic]

These are movies based on comic books. Someone who's supposedly dead coming back would hardly be unprecedented. Not nessissarily a good idea, but it would not surprise me in the least if it happened.

[Galvatron]

Bringing back Coulson would be fucking stupid, but casting Clark Gregg as the Vision would be inspired. He already looks the part and his mannerisms are spot on.

[Jim Raynor]

If the fans need Coulson back so badly, put him in a flashback scene. Or in a future Marvel Universe movie explicitly set before The Avengers (not without precedent, Iron Man 2 is largely set before The Incredible Hulk despite being released 2 years later in real life). Resurrecting the character would be stooping down to some of the worst aspects of comic books, when the movies have been about bringing out the best aspects in them.

[Kojiro]

Bringing back Coulson would be fucking stupid, but casting Clark Gregg as the Vision would be inspired. He already looks the part and his mannerisms are spot on.

This. I'm not sure who'd build Vision in this universe but if it was Start/Banner team up I could see them giving it a reminiscent Coulson look to honour him- especially if Vision is built to aid in opposing the forces that led to Coulson's death.

[Broomstick]

^ I like that.

[Simon_Jester]

Yeah, that would make sense.

I can't believe some fans are trying to come up with strained explanations to bring Coulson back from the dead. I saw some try-hard language in the character's Wikipedia page, to the effect of "well the camera didn't dwell on him after he lost consciousness, and we know that Fury exaggerated his death."

What's ambiguous for me is that we know the actor is in contract negotiations for another movie. There's really only two ways to play that. One, it's a flashback scene he's acting in (possible). Two, he's somehow handwaved as surviving.

I don't much care- I didn't know there was a Coulson fandom- but it does seem weird to me.

EDIT: Or, OK, three, it might be that Gregg's playing a totally different guy.

[Sarevok]

I did not even know who Coulson was but I started watching the other films leading upto Avengers. The guy grew on me despite limited screen time and I can see why some people liked him and were upset he died.

[Havok]

He's a strong character. SLJ is SHIELD, but Coulson is the man in black that knows everything and can't be fucked with or duped or gotten over on, even by these amazing people and even Gods.

Most importantly though, the actor himself holds his own on screen with RDJ, SLJ, Hemsworth and Evans. He is in no way over powered by them.

[Galvatron]

I suppose they could let Stark (and/or Pym, if he ever shows up) modify a Coulson LMD to have Vision-like super powers. That would kill a lot of birds with one stone.

[Sarevok]

I suppose they could let Stark (and/or Pym, if he ever shows up) modify a Coulson LMD to have Vision-like super powers. That would kill a lot of birds with one stone.

They so far avoided most the bad things about long running superhero comics in general. Lets not go there.

[evilsoup]

WRT the actor being signed up for future films: well, there are flashbacks; but doesn't the Mandarin have some kind of hallucination powers? I could easily see them working Coulson into the next Iron Man film that way.

[Vanas]

Considering that one of the next Marvel movies looks like it'll be Nick Fury, I guess the prequel thing sounds about right.

[evilsoup]

Oh gods, not a Nick Fury movie. He's a super-spy, he'd work best if we didn't know his backstory...

[MrDakka]

Oh gods, not a Nick Fury movie.

How can you say that about the 'hoff?!

[Havok]

The thing is... The Hoff was a PERFECT casting for Nich Fury.

[Atlan]

The thing is... The Hoff was a PERFECT casting for Nich Fury.

As long as you didn't care about anything but looks... Yeah, sure.

[evilsoup]

What have you got against the Hoff, you heretic?

[One Two]

These are movies based on comic books. Someone who's supposedly dead coming back would hardly be unprecedented. Not nessissarily a good idea, but it would not surprise me in the least if it happened.

And many things that happen in comic books don't translate well into movies. That this would be one of them. We saw him get stabbed and die (he didn't just fall into some space hole like Loki). As much as I like Coulson, if they were to just bring him back, I'd call bullshit.

[One Two]

Yeah, that would make sense.

I can't believe some fans are trying to come up with strained explanations to bring Coulson back from the dead. I saw some try-hard language in the character's Wikipedia page, to the effect of "well the camera didn't dwell on him after he lost consciousness, and we know that Fury exaggerated his death."

What's ambiguous for me is that we know the actor is in contract negotiations for another movie. There's really only two ways to play that. One, it's a flashback scene he's acting in (possible). Two, he's somehow handwaved as surviving.

I don't much care- I didn't know there was a Coulson fandom- but it does seem weird to me.

EDIT: Or, OK, three, it might be that Gregg's playing a totally different guy.

I don't think he had that much of a fandom beforehand. You just saw him in some of the movies and liked him. So when he died everyone just involuntarily said "oh shit" and that's when you just realized how much you liked him.

[Stofsk]

The thing is... The Hoff was a PERFECT casting for Nich Fury.

As long as you didn't care about anything but looks... Yeah, sure.

You do know that the original Nick Fury i.e. NOT the Ultimates version that SLJ is based off of, was white right?

[CaptainChewbacca]

The thing is... The Hoff was a PERFECT casting for Nich Fury.

As long as you didn't care about anything but looks... Yeah, sure.

You do know that the original Nick Fury i.e. NOT the Ultimates version that SLJ is based off of, was white right?

Stofsk, he's saying the ONLY thing Hoff had going for him was he looked like Nick Fury. Personally, I enjoyed the movie.