Webers "PAth of the Fury" Empire vs GE

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-23 10:13am

His Divine Shadow wrote:Can I have the formula you use to calculate those things? I might be able to turn it into a calculator, like the ones I got on my website.

It's called the Schwartzchild radius formula, and you can look it up if you like. I actually listed it earlier: R=2GM/c^2. It's a ridiculously simple formula for such an exotic concept.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-23 04:02pm

Darth Wong wrote:
consequences wrote:Go easy on the Author of the book, it was one of his first, and he was trying for a different propulsion concept than those normally seen. If you really want to correct him, go to Baen's Bar and challenge him.
If I went after him about it, I'm sure he'd just say it shouldn't be taken too seriously. Which is fine; my gripe was actually for the benefit of readers who populate these "vs" debates and pretend to be scientifically knowledgeable, yet spout this idiocy that a micro-mass singularity would devastate any starship, tear planets apart, etc. Look around, you'll see a LOT of fans who subscribe to some pretty ignorant misconceptions about singularities and black holes. It's OK to be ignorant of black holes (it's not as if these theories will have any effet whatsoever on humanity in our lifetimes), but not if you plan to spout pseudoscientific arguments about them in a "vs" debate.

Could these just be "force field" phenomena (maybe gravity, maybe not) that are conveniently labeled black holes (sort of how lasers and turbolasers aren't really lasers?) but are not REALLY black holes?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-23 04:03pm

Ender wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:This debate is still going on? Don't tell me its still occuring at Spacebattles.
It is

Now what? Give me specific details and I'll crush them. (I refuse to step over onto SB again and deal with the Weberites there)

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-24 12:06am

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Ender wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:This debate is still going on? Don't tell me its still occuring at Spacebattles.
It is

Now what? Give me specific details and I'll crush them. (I refuse to step over onto SB again and deal with the Weberites there)

Same deal with me. But since I am your bitch, I went into there anyways. It's going on about TLs now, and CommisarJan pleasuring himself to the thought of all things Weber. Par for the course.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-24 05:21am

Ender wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:
Ender wrote:It is

Now what? Give me specific details and I'll crush them. (I refuse to step over onto SB again and deal with the Weberites there)
Same deal with me. But since I am your bitch, I went into there anyways. It's going on about TLs now, and CommisarJan pleasuring himself to the thought of all things Weber. Par for the course.

Ah. "Slow moving TL bolts" eh?

I'm going to have to sit down with that book and garner some relevant information.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-24 05:22am

And who said anything about me having a bitch anyhow?

FBHthelizardmage · Post by **FBHthelizardmage** » 2003-01-24 08:54am

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Ender wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:This debate is still going on? Don't tell me its still occuring at Spacebattles.
It is

Now what? Give me specific details and I'll crush them. (I refuse to step over onto SB again and deal with the Weberites there)

you name it they throw it.
the current ones are

the imperial military are totally incomptent.

and
TL move very very slowly.

FBHthelizardmage · Post by **FBHthelizardmage** » 2003-01-24 09:02am

the other is weak SW shields VS kinetics.

they guy is using dark stars sight for gods sake.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-24 12:39pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:And who said anything about me having a bitch anyhow?

That kind of insanity is what results from 5 straight hours of studying heat transfer and fluid flow.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-01-25 01:47am

So maybe we can classify Dovin basals as generating some sort of one-way hyperspace portal with the tendency to suck normal space matter and energy into it? Or should we just stick with the technobabble theory? if I'm not just speculating at something incredibly stupid, would this be a working theory for explaining Weber's similar line of thought?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-25 01:50am

Chalk them both up to scientifically meaningless technowank, written by people who seem to think that "singularity = magic".

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-01-25 02:01am

Yes, but if we can define "singularity" to mean something semi-reasonable, then we at least hav something to work with.
Sorry, its just that leaving it as technobabble lets people try to get away with the "its magic so it can break all of the rules" argument. Since I detest that sort of shit, I'm just trying to do my part to reduce its potential applications.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-25 02:06am

Actually, arbitrarily inventing a mechanism merely gives them an excuse to start furiously extrapolating and inventing new applications for that mechanism.

It is better to simply say that we don't know how it works, and set some limits based on observation. For example, the dovin basals appear to absorb energy with a black-ball phenomenon projected from their bodies, it has been observed to withstand X but not Y. Or, Weberverse technowank missiles were observed to do X amount of damage to a given ship when they impacted. It is not known how they function (the black-hole explanation was obviously written by idiots), but we can set limits on what they can and can't do, based on simple thermodynamics.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-25 02:19am

FBHthelizardmage wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:
Ender wrote:It is

Now what? Give me specific details and I'll crush them. (I refuse to step over onto SB again and deal with the Weberites there)
you name it they throw it.
the current ones are

the imperial military are totally incomptent.

YEs, like the Furyverse showed real intellect when they almost lost a substnatial chunk of their empire to the machinations of one man (and would have succeeded were it not for that Alpha Synth.) - or the fact they had that Rogue pirate fleet (w hich was supplied ships form that SAME navy) without effect.

Or the fact the Alpha Synth got stolen.

and
TL move very very slowly.

Quite simple. If they're massless - they move at c. If they've got mass, they can be ramped up to near-c. Even assuming a TL bolt massed several KG, it wouldn't take much of an ISD's power output to accelerate the bolt to near-c (especially since fighters can reach that speed, Yuuzhan Vong projectiles can travel that fast, hell their ENGINES spit out charged particiles at relatavistic speeds.)

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-25 02:20am

FBHthelizardmage wrote:the other is weak SW shields VS kinetics.

they guy is using dark stars sight for gods sake.

Destiny's Way - The falcon took multiple
projectiles (which from Rebel Dream, IIRC, were multi Kilogram) from Coralskippers moving at near-c. Mike already amply dealt with the TESB asteroid scene.

FBHthelizardmage · Post by **FBHthelizardmage** » 2003-01-25 09:09am

and AT-ST are light tanks.

and theres no cannon planetary shields.

And most bizzare allica verse forts can take multiple SLAMs.

theres also a huge argument about how they guy in ROJT should have been better trained to get out of the AT-ST.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-01-25 11:12pm

I don't recall anything in the Furyverse taking multiple SLAMs without a Fasset drive operating and in the way. All of the fortresses that had SLAMs launched at them died.