Mechs and Walkers: The future of warfair or a lame duck?

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-01-23 05:21pm

dUh MeChS r KeWl!! gIv 1 a 300Mm AtO cAnOn aDn It WoD oWnZ aNy TaNk!!!!!!!!

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-23 05:57pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:dUh MeChS r KeWl!! gIv 1 a 300Mm AtO cAnOn aDn It WoD oWnZ aNy TaNk!!!!!!!!

OK, when did RayCav hack GAT's account? Quick, everyone, pull out the goggles!

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-23 06:02pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Andrew J. wrote:The only thing mechs are good for is intimidation factor, and the other advantages of tanks far outweigh that.
I don't think a shitty ass mech would scare me much. Especially not if I have some real armor on my side.

Yeah, tanks aren't scary at all

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-01-23 07:04pm

UltraViolence83 wrote:What about something about as small as a tank, but has four legs and can run really, really fast? (think VOLTRON, people!)

Voltron isn't as small as a tank. It's as small as a big-ass airship on top of a really big tank on top of two long trucks bent in an L shape, with cars hanging from the sides.

Larz · Post by **Larz** » 2003-01-23 07:37pm

Just to hijack a thread, what would be a practical attack vehical to use in say, a mining asteroid (zero g caverns were normal fighter pilots can't negotiate) or just a zero/low g ground enviroment

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-01-23 08:54pm

Modified space pod say thrusters and arms attached to a pod shapoed body

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-23 10:05pm

I really doubt you could build a supersonic tank without at least using a ramjet, and going supersonic so low to the ground with such a poorly shaped object would be a weapon in itself from the shockwave.

Well I mean more along the lines of a harrier with a ventrally mounted tank cannon. And ofcourse it would need to be able to hover for prolonged periods of time, but given the technological parity with nechs, this would be childs play. I'm pretty sure we could do this with modern technology its just there would be no point since youre not going to hit any targets while moving Mach 1+. The supersonic ability would be used mainly for getting around quickly, kind of like how tanks dont always fire while moving.

NeoGoomba · Post by **NeoGoomba** » 2003-01-24 12:37am

Just look at Metal Gear REX. It's biggest claim to fame was that it was both nuclear capable AND all-terrain capable. Sure, it could hit 90kph, but blow out one leg and you got yourself a static artillery piece.

Now take a tank, fit it with the same rail-gun launcher, give it a competent crew and sufficient spare parts, and you've got yourself a mobile nuclear-capable machine that can power through most terrain, and can repair itself far more easily than a pilot of REX could.

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-01-24 02:02am

Slartibartfast wrote:
UltraViolence83 wrote:What about something about as small as a tank, but has four legs and can run really, really fast? (think VOLTRON, people!)
Voltron isn't as small as a tank. It's as small as a big-ass airship on top of a really big tank on top of two long trucks bent in an L shape, with cars hanging from the sides.

I meant one of the smaller tiger-looking things before they merged into Voltron.

BenRG · Post by **BenRG** » 2003-01-24 03:31pm

The obvious problem with Mechs (as far as I can tell) is the stresses on the limbs must be massive (MechWarrior gives speeds of 50 - 100mph for 50-tonne Falcon mechs). The strain on those legs when making a turn at those speeds must be incredible. Of course, there is the size problem. As everyone points out, the Mech is only a terrifying weapon when it has a large-scale technical advantage of some kind.

I notice that most people have been talking about humanoid mechs. How about 'chickenwalkers' like the Falcon and Nova from 'MechWarrior'? They are about 33% shorter and seem to carry more firepower and armour.

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2003-01-24 04:41pm

Did anyone see the 'toon called Exo-Squad. I conceive that mechs may be good for space-battles but on ground it would be too top-heavy. The more practical way is to make mech suits a little taller than human beings. Use it for inflitration, urban battle and heavy assaults on the inside of bases.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-24 04:56pm

Dennis Toy wrote:Did anyone see the 'toon called Exo-Squad. I conceive that mechs may be good for space-battles but on ground it would be too top-heavy. The more practical way is to make mech suits a little taller than human beings. Use it for inflitration, urban battle and heavy assaults on the inside of bases.

ROFL...yeah, that one ripped off of Macross like BTech did. I agree, though, exoskeletons and power armors are more likely than giant mecha. The Army's working on an exoskeleton (again).

Sektor31 · Post by **Sektor31** » 2003-01-24 06:19pm

Mechs may be plausible. Have any of you ever played Xenogears? Those things could wreck entire fleets of ships.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2003-01-24 07:03pm

Mechs are only plausible if you have super sci-fi power sources and methods of construction that could propel a 220 ton machine into orbit in no time.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-24 08:58pm

VF5SS wrote:Mechs are only plausible if you have super sci-fi power sources and methods of construction that could propel a 220 ton machine into orbit in no time.

In which case you could just do the same thing with a Tank. A flying tank is no more absurd then a flying mecha, in fact its a fair bit less since the Russians already built a glider tank and the shape is always going ot be better for combat.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-24 09:01pm

The only way for mechs to become practical in any sense is to have super power-generation as well as shield technology (preferably bulky shield technology, thus necessitating the sheer size of a mech). Even then, a large tank would work better, but at least a mech could be workable, instead of just being overpriced target practice for AT guns.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2003-01-24 10:16pm

Sea Skimmer wrote: In which case you could just do the same thing with a Tank. A flying tank is no more absurd then a flying mecha, in fact its a fair bit less since the Russians already built a glider tank and the shape is always going ot be better for combat.

But tanks can't fight giant robot dinosaurs...

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-24 10:21pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
VF5SS wrote:Mechs are only plausible if you have super sci-fi power sources and methods of construction that could propel a 220 ton machine into orbit in no time.
In which case you could just do the same thing with a Tank. A flying tank is no more absurd then a flying mecha, in fact its a fair bit less since the Russians already built a glider tank and the shape is always going ot be better for combat.

I read about that glider tank. The pilot said it flew like shit

. It was an interesting idea, but most likely most of the tankplanes would have crashed, since it was one of their best test pilots who flew the prototype.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-01-25 03:41am

I think that two-legged Gundam-style walkers might not have a future. (and the transforming mechs from Macross even less!)

However, what about six-legged robotic walkers which do not have to be the size of a tank?? They'd be good for fighting in mountain regions and other places were tanks can't be used.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-25 05:04am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:I think that two-legged Gundam-style walkers might not have a future. (and the transforming mechs from Macross even less!)

However, what about six-legged robotic walkers which do not have to be the size of a tank?? They'd be good for fighting in mountain regions and other places were tanks can't be used.

Its a humans weight, size and agility that make them useful places tanks can't go. On a mountain slope a mecha will suffer the same problumes a tank will, if not worse ones.

Mountain fighting is going to remain the domain of infantry, mortars and aircraft.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-01-25 05:56am

Mechs. Blah. Now if we can throw in Grav Armour form Renegade Legeon then the equation totally changes...

Seriously, I would rather have a tank with increased mobility (hover tank...or something like it) than a mech.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-01-25 07:18am

You know for once I really did have fun over in space battles....

Hammer's Slammers vs. Clan enjoy

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2003-01-26 01:38am

Darth Wong wrote:
SWPIGWANG wrote:When rioters have AT-Guns, your are screwed millions of ways already.

That is like saying riot shields are useless because they can't stop HMG bullets.
Don't be ridiculous; nobody uses a 200 million dollar super-tech armoured vehicle to shut down a typical riot.

Mechs don't cost $200 million, 3 c bills are about equal to 1 dollar, so a state of the art assault mech costs around $10 million. A standard 100 tonner would be $3 million, and a 10 ton mech for use in cities could be had for $300,000.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2003-01-26 06:52am

Graeme Dice wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
SWPIGWANG wrote:When rioters have AT-Guns, your are screwed millions of ways already.

That is like saying riot shields are useless because they can't stop HMG bullets.
Don't be ridiculous; nobody uses a 200 million dollar super-tech armoured vehicle to shut down a typical riot.
Mechs don't cost $200 million, 3 c bills are about equal to 1 dollar, so a state of the art assault mech costs around $10 million. A standard 100 tonner would be $3 million, and a 10 ton mech for use in cities could be had for $300,000.

...all while a Challenger MBT costs something around 210 000 US Dollars, weighs a couple dozen tons and has a main gun with enough muzzle velocity to topple most Gundams. And where the hell did you get that 3c = 1$ conversion ratio???

Vejut · Post by **Vejut** » 2003-01-26 11:26am

Last I checked, in MW2 (the RPG book, not the computer game...), the conversion ratio was 1 C-bill to $5 US (1991 dollars) I have heard it's gone down, don't have a source.

BTW, he's bullshitting you. A top of the line assualt mech is around 12-24 million C-bills (depending on things like XL engines and Omni-pods...), 3 million would buy a heavy tank or a light-medium mech. Don't know about the citymech, but 10 tonners are acutally illegal now....

Doesn't change your point about price though PeZook.
I figgured a tank was cheaper than a mech, but only $210K? Thought it was a few times that--of course, it's been amply proved I don't know jack...

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Mechs and Walkers: The future of warfair or a lame duck?

Some vague thoughts