nBSG Cylons vs Borg What are Your Thoughts?

[Sidewinder]

One thing that comes to mind: the CPU for every Cylon baseship is more vulnerable to personal attack than a redshirt with a tapped out phaser. All they need to do is beam one drone into the hybrid's vat room, plug a few probes into her body, and they have at worst really crippled the base ship and at best taken complete control. They may catch on eventually and begin putting centurions in the room, but how long will that take?

That's a very good point. Of course, Cylons do NOT simply ignore intruders, unlike Borg drones. So if the Borg beam themselves into the wrong room, they'll quickly be transformed into Swiss cheese.

[Enigma]

One thing that comes to mind: the CPU for every Cylon baseship is more vulnerable to personal attack than a redshirt with a tapped out phaser. All they need to do is beam one drone into the hybrid's vat room, plug a few probes into her body, and they have at worst really crippled the base ship and at best taken complete control. They may catch on eventually and begin putting centurions in the room, but how long will that take?

That's a very good point. Of course, Cylons do NOT simply ignore intruders, unlike Borg drones. So if the Borg beam themselves into the wrong room, they'll quickly be transformed into Swiss cheese.

But the first thing the cube will do once it encounters a basestar would be to scan it before beaming over.

[ThatGuyFromThatPlace]

Whose to say Borg Transporters will even be able to get in? (Don't Cylon's operate under pretty heavy jamming? and what is a base-star's hull made of?) Let alone whether their scanners will be able to magically detect that the base-star is being directed from one (probably heavily shielded by hull and jamming) room/individual and where that room is?

[PREDATOR490]

That's a very good point. Of course, Cylons do NOT simply ignore intruders, unlike Borg drones. So if the Borg beam themselves into the wrong room, they'll quickly be transformed into Swiss cheese.

The Borg ignore intruders if they arent considered a threat or of intrest. When they are considered a threat they are taken down. Unimatrix Zero showed this against the Voyager crew who got readily busted onboard the Tactical Cube.

As for the kinetic ability of Borg shields. I seem to recall Worf and Data passing through a Borg shield in a shuttle during BoBW to get to Picard but beyond that I havent seen them use a shield except Lore's bunch.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Season 3 of BSG showed that Cylons really don't have much internal security at all inside their Baseships. In FC, the a Sphere in the midst of a chain-explosion beams the Queen onto the Enterprise, through shields, and into a place where they weren't noticed. Other examples throughout the series show that the Borg's transporting abilities seem to be well beyond Federation tech, and have far fewer limitations and addendums to their use.

I'd say, given their history, they would be perfectly capable of transporting drones onto Baseships, and Borg have demonstrated a capacity for stealth in FC.

[PREDATOR490]

With the use of the holding and cutting beams I would expect the Borg just to start slicing into a target that had sufficient protection against transporters. If the protection is generated then the Borg will most likely target the generators to bring them down much like in BOBW where they specifically cut into the Engineering section of the E-D.

If the Cylons start proving themselves to be more trouble to assimilate than they are worth the Borg will start blasting them out of the sky like Wolf 359 or First Contact.
The Cube tore through the Federation fleet to reach Earth inorder to force a surrender which would generally suggest that the Borg are at least trying to do the same thing Shinzon wanted to do with the Scimitar. Earth is the center of the Federation so nailing it will cause it to collapse making assimilation of everything else much easier rather than having to slowly work system by system against ever increasing desperation and new attempts at creating Anti Borg weapons. Not to mention the possibility of other species getting involved.

It would be something of a nightmare for the Borg to wage a campaign since their powerbase is a significant distance away which would force them to split their power and possibly stretch the collective link and control of the Queen.

Hence the Borg could attempt to go for a quick kill on any points of leadership within the Cylons or just start wiping them out if the Borg decide they have nothing worthwhile to offer.

[Thag]

Season 3 of BSG showed that Cylons really don't have much internal security at all inside their Baseships. In FC, the a Sphere in the midst of a chain-explosion beams the Queen onto the Enterprise, through shields, and into a place where they weren't noticed. Other examples throughout the series show that the Borg's transporting abilities seem to be well beyond Federation tech, and have far fewer limitations and addendums to their use.

I'd say, given their history, they would be perfectly capable of transporting drones onto Baseships, and Borg have demonstrated a capacity for stealth in FC.

Actually, FC wasn't that big of a leap for the Borg. After passing through the time tunnel, the E-E had lost both shields and most of it's sensors. Still, the only jamming that I remember seeing the Cylons ever use was the stuff that scrambled the Viper missle seekers during the asteroid attack. The baseships themselves are just an outer shell, some solid inhabited areas, and techno-organic stuff. Nothing that's really been shown to really mess up transporters.

[NecronLord]

In FC, the a Sphere in the midst of a chain-explosion beams the Queen onto the Enterprise, through shields,

Actually, I'm fairly certain there's a line to the effect of 'our shields were down' - I'm not aware of the Borg really demonstrating the ability to board a ship through its shields since Q Who?

Alas, the only version of the FC script I have available is radically different, with "The new quantum torpedoes are doing the trick, Jean-Luc. We've destroyed forty-seven Borg ships so far... and only lost fifteen of our own."

Of course, the cylons have no shields anyway...

[ThatGuyFromThatPlace]

With the use of the holding and cutting beams I would expect the Borg just to start slicing into a target that had sufficient protection against transporters. If the protection is generated then the Borg will most likely target the generators to bring them down much like in BOBW where they specifically cut into the Engineering section of the E-D.

If the Cylons start proving themselves to be more trouble to assimilate than they are worth the Borg will start blasting them out of the sky like Wolf 359 or First Contact.
The Cube tore through the Federation fleet to reach Earth inorder to force a surrender which would generally suggest that the Borg are at least trying to do the same thing Shinzon wanted to do with the Scimitar. Earth is the center of the Federation so nailing it will cause it to collapse making assimilation of everything else much easier rather than having to slowly work system by system against ever increasing desperation and new attempts at creating Anti Borg weapons. Not to mention the possibility of other species getting involved.

It would be something of a nightmare for the Borg to wage a campaign since their powerbase is a significant distance away which would force them to split their power and possibly stretch the collective link and control of the Queen.

Hence the Borg could attempt to go for a quick kill on any points of leadership within the Cylons or just start wiping them out if the Borg decide they have nothing worthwhile to offer.

Who says the Cylons will offer any resistance to assimilation? The Skin-Jobs infiltrated in human society didn't go around blowing shit up until forty years later in a wide spread, well coordinated simultaneous attack. And even then cylon agents remained hidden in the survivors, some not even knowing they were cylons until triggered, they way I see it, the best Cylon strategy against the borg is to put up enough resistance to capture a Drone, steal away to some hiding spot and go to work, eventually, the Borg, going about there business, unaware of the danger, start picking up modified skin-jobs and assimilating them along with whatever group they were hiding with, a few years down the line the Cylon/Drones have been spread through the collective, it doesn't really matter how profusely because the Cylons can play a looooong game.
One day, BAM gylon Base-Star pops up near a cube/fleet/etc. Drones that didn't even know they had once been cylons start screwing around with the collective, spreading individualism or some shit, dropping shields, triggering self destruct sequences, transmitting details on borg technology opening fire on other Cubes. Some stay hidden, they may still to know they are really Cylons, or they do know but maybe able to continue to pretend being Drones, spreading digital infections that remain dormant through a certain number of generations to prevent anything being traced directly back by a queen/other 'immune system'. Maybe they report that other Cubes have been infected.

If the first such attack doesn't work, the information gained can be used to elevate Cylon technology to a more equitable position. The Cylons don't win immediately. Fifty, a hundred, five hundred years down the line though?

The Cylon FTL drive means that they can afford to run away and fight another day, and their history shows they are perfectly willing to trade lots of time for an over-whelming advantage, it's unlikely that the Borg can track or keep up with the jump, and there's a lot of space to hide in.

[NecronLord]

Wouldnt Endgame serve to suggest they CAN learn from direct experience.

Oddly enough, no. I've just (and it's quite unpleasant) read through the script, and I found nothing suggesting that the borg are able to learn save by assimilation and their usual vaguely defined 'adaptation' there. They 'adapt' their shields, and more importantly, despite Adm. Janeway saying "This hub is here. There's nothing in the Alpha quadrant but exit apertures. While you're all standing around dreaming up fantasy tactical scenarios, the Queen is studying her scans of our armour and weapons, and she's probably got the entire Collective working on a way to counter them" the borg, even before this scene, swiftly find a way to harm Voyager's batmobile armour - but really, there's no evidence they're doing more than jacking up the power on their weapons at that stage. Later, however...

QUEEN: (pulls off a disintegrating arm) Sphere six three four. They can still hear my thoughts. I may have assimilated your pathogen but I also assimilated your armour technology. (leg falls off) Captain Janeway is about to die. If she has no future, you will never exist and nothing that you've done here today will happen. (Queen dies, central complex explodes)

Elsewhere, it's the same bag of tricks - indeed, Adm. Janeway suggests that the 'transphasic torpedoes' won't be successful against the Transwarp Network because those shields are 'regulated by the Queen herself' - I'd interpret that as just another magical frequency adaptation.

To Gustav32Vasa... I've got to concede defeat. That is indeed solid evidence of the Borg using the scientific method. And fucking it up, but still, at least they tried for once.

[Turin]

Hence the Borg could attempt to go for a quick kill on any points of leadership within the Cylons or just start wiping them out if the Borg decide they have nothing worthwhile to offer.

Who says the Cylons will offer any resistance to assimilation? The Skin-Jobs infiltrated in human society didn't go around blowing shit up until forty years later in a wide spread, well coordinated simultaneous attack. <snip>
If the first such attack doesn't work, the information gained can be used to elevate Cylon technology to a more equitable position. The Cylons don't win immediately. Fifty, a hundred, five hundred years down the line though?

Your approach seems reasonable from a "if I were the cylons and knew I had to take on the Borg" standpoint. But the scenarios given may not allow for that, however.

The Borg-in-Colonial-verse scenario has 20 cubes appearing, with years of lead-up time for the borg to watch the cylons as they head on over. Unfortunately for the cylons in this case, their sensors can't detect the FTL-traveling borg until the borg are already in their space. With 20 cubes vs maybe 120 basestars, the cylons could find themselves wiped out before they realize they need to run. Remember, the cylons and Colonials fought a knock-down-drag-out war before the cylons finally conceded enough of a defeat that they negotiated the Armistice and withdrew. Even if the cylons jump away, the borg have FTL sensors. I'm not sure if we know how far the cylons can jump and whether that will get them out of range.

In the Cylons-in-Borg-verse scenario, the cylons (how many basestars in this scenario?) show up but can't detect the borg. If the borg happen to find them, you see the same scenario as above.

Of course, the borg probably only send one cube in either case to "probe" the cylons. With the firepower we've roughly calculated, the cube starts killing off basestars pretty quickly. Assuming the cylons figure out that things are going badly for them (and with their sensor tech, that's not guaranteed), they might decide to flee. Unfortunately, the borg are pretty well known for their dogged pursuit, and we can expect the cube to chase down the basestars, unless the basestars can jump so far away that the cube can't catch up in time. We can't expect the basestars will just jump-jump-jump, because they can't detect the fact that the cube will be traveling at FTL to catch them.

I like your approach, ThatGuyFromThatPlace, but the cylons have to survive long enough to pull it off first.

[Solauren]

Cylons in Trek -

The Borg eventually rip the Cylons apart.

There's some evidence after the pounding the took from Species 8472, that there rethinking a few of there stratergies (i.e we see cubes with armor).

They have a massive numbers advantage, energy shields, transporters, tractor beams, and biological warfare that make the Cylons look pathetic by comparison.

Consider -
The Borg do have some kind of airborne nanoprobe weapon. Imagine a few hundred cubic meters of that beamed into a Cylon basestar.

The Cylon (who you would assume would be experts on there own abilities and vulnerabliles) were very concerned that an infected Cylon, if terminated and resurrected, would bring the disease with them to the rest of the Cylons.

Who's to say that wouldn't happen with Borg assimilation nanoprobes. Get one humanoid-model Cylon, let it get killed (assuming the Borg realise the possiblity from knolwedge assimilated from the Cyclon), and wam - the entire Cyclon race is infected to be assimilated within hours.

We also have never seen a nuclear weapon impact against a Borg cube before, and we've never seen Railgun style weapons used against a Borg cube. Sure, they rip Borg drones apart like there's no tomorrow. However, the same could be said about a single Phaser shot. The Borg may not bother armoring there drones against that because of there numbers.

However, the same can't be said about Cubes. Think about it. Cubes are the big threat, not the drones. If it turned out nukes and railguns could fight the Borg off, how long would news of that take to spread in a given region? Not long. Eventually, everyone in the galaxy would know, and the Borg would be fucked.

That being said, it could be no one has ever throught of using such primative weapons against the Borg.

Anyway, long message short, odds are, the Borg take this one, and gain some new technologies, like Colonial / Cylon FTL.

The idea of the Borg with Colonial / Cylon FTL drive is kinda scary....

Fly into Federation territory under Warp, federation fleet moves to intercept, then Battlestar FTL right over Earth, light years away from the Federation defense fleet....

[brianeyci]

Eh Solauren, I thought that it was pretty much generally accepted that Star Trek and by extension the Borg have kinetic shields and not just ray shielding. But the only example I can think of this right now is Roga Danar's ship bouncing off the Enterprise-D's shields.

Nuclear weapons are radiation kills in space, and the Borg seem supremely suited to withstand radiation. Their drones work in hard vacuum. Unless the nuclear weapon burrowed under and detonated inside the cube, it could possibly be worse than a phaser. And then, it would have to penetrate shields and they'd need phasers for that. We've seen what torpedoes and phasers can do to a Borg cube in Q, Who.

So I see no reason to assume at all that the Borg have a particular weakness to railguns or nuclear weapons, other than an argument from ignorance that they've never been used before. Just because their drones don't have kinetic shields, that doesn't mean their cubes don't, especially since we've seen Data's hands touch a Borg force field and be repelled by it.

[NecronLord]

Eh Solauren, I thought that it was pretty much generally accepted that Star Trek and by extension the Borg have kinetic shields and not just ray shielding. But the only example I can think of this right now is Roga Danar's ship bouncing off the Enterprise-D's shields.

And just about every time a photon torpedo doesn't fly through 'em.

[ThatGuyFromThatPlace]

Hence the Borg could attempt to go for a quick kill on any points of leadership within the Cylons or just start wiping them out if the Borg decide they have nothing worthwhile to offer.

Who says the Cylons will offer any resistance to assimilation? The Skin-Jobs infiltrated in human society didn't go around blowing shit up until forty years later in a wide spread, well coordinated simultaneous attack. <snip>
If the first such attack doesn't work, the information gained can be used to elevate Cylon technology to a more equitable position. The Cylons don't win immediately. Fifty, a hundred, five hundred years down the line though?

Your approach seems reasonable from a "if I were the cylons and knew I had to take on the Borg" standpoint. But the scenarios given may not allow for that, however.

The Borg-in-Colonial-verse scenario has 20 cubes appearing, with years of lead-up time for the borg to watch the cylons as they head on over. Unfortunately for the cylons in this case, their sensors can't detect the FTL-traveling borg until the borg are already in their space. With 20 cubes vs maybe 120 basestars, the cylons could find themselves wiped out before they realize they need to run. Remember, the cylons and Colonials fought a knock-down-drag-out war before the cylons finally conceded enough of a defeat that they negotiated the Armistice and withdrew. Even if the cylons jump away, the borg have FTL sensors. I'm not sure if we know how far the cylons can jump and whether that will get them out of range.

In the Cylons-in-Borg-verse scenario, the cylons (how many basestars in this scenario?) show up but can't detect the borg. If the borg happen to find them, you see the same scenario as above.

Of course, the borg probably only send one cube in either case to "probe" the cylons. With the firepower we've roughly calculated, the cube starts killing off basestars pretty quickly. Assuming the cylons figure out that things are going badly for them (and with their sensor tech, that's not guaranteed), they might decide to flee. Unfortunately, the borg are pretty well known for their dogged pursuit, and we can expect the cube to chase down the basestars, unless the basestars can jump so far away that the cube can't catch up in time. We can't expect the basestars will just jump-jump-jump, because they can't detect the fact that the cube will be traveling at FTL to catch them.

I like your approach, ThatGuyFromThatPlace, but the cylons have to survive long enough to pull it off first.

All good points, though I don't imagine that in either scenerio the cylon's will be wiped out completely in one or two encounters


Cylons in Trek will probably be able to escape because the Borg are likely to only send one, or a small number of cubes initially to investigate, and once it does some serious damage, the remaining Cylons will be able to escape fairly easily. A small number of cubes are not likely to destroy the Cylon forces so thoroughly that none will be able to escape.
This one is actually more dangerous tot he Borg because they likelihood of a cylon ship escaping with drones on board is very high due to the large number of base-stars fighting a small number of cubes.

Cylons in BSG will be able to escape because the initial conflict is likely not to involve a resurrection ship or other major fleet, the Cylons will be able to learn of their over-whelming defeat before core planets/units are over-whelmed, as the Borg encounter out lying worlds/fleets first.

Also, Where is it Writ that the Borg can detect/track Cylon FTL, which seems to consist of more of an instantaneous jump than warp travel, though Borg Warp-based sensors may be able to detect the Cylons at extreme range, over light years (Isn't there an episode where we can establish a good minimum FTL jump range in season 3? that could be helpful) after a Jump. the Cylons are not idiots though and once the Borg catch up once or twice, they may simply jump multiple ships in multiple directions, or rally-jump to get out quickly.

Unless the borg in both scenarios can completely destroy the Cylons in a limited number of engagements, there's no reason the Cylon's can't run away with some new knowledge and bide their time for a counter-attack.

[Turin]

Cylons in Trek will probably be able to escape because the Borg are likely to only send one, or a small number of cubes initially to investigate, and once it does some serious damage, the remaining Cylons will be able to escape fairly easily. A small number of cubes are not likely to destroy the Cylon forces so thoroughly that none will be able to escape.

I was actually thinking that with the orders-of-magnitude firepower difference we're looking at, the cube would be pretty much one-hit killing cylon basestars. Warp in, blast away, and a fleet of 4-5 basestars is gone in a flash. Move on to the next before the cylons knew what hit them. But you have a point that refutes that (see below).

This one is actually more dangerous tot he Borg because they likelihood of a cylon ship escaping with drones on board is very high due to the large number of base-stars fighting a small number of cubes.

The question is whether there will be enough of the drones in question left for the cylons to figure out that they're fighting a collective cyberorganism.

Cylons in BSG will be able to escape because the initial conflict is likely not to involve a resurrection ship or other major fleet, the Cylons will be able to learn of their over-whelming defeat before core planets/units are over-whelmed, as the Borg encounter out lying worlds/fleets first.

I can't believe I didn't think of that! Even if the cube wipes out a handful of basestars in an instant, that just means a bunch of FTL cylon "souls" return to the Resurrection ship ready to spill their guts about what just happened. I was previously thinking the borg would always be hitting with surprise because there was no way for the cylons to send FTL signals.

Also, Where is it Writ that the Borg can detect/track Cylon FTL, which seems to consist of more of an instantaneous jump than warp travel, though Borg Warp-based sensors may be able to detect the Cylons at extreme range, over light years (Isn't there an episode where we can establish a good minimum FTL jump range in season 3? that could be helpful) after a Jump.

It was the "detection at extreme range" I was thinking of. Ships in StarTrek-verse have detection abilities that seem to vary pretty wildly (see the "What are ST sensors REALLY capable of?" sticky in Pure ST), but definitely fall into the multi-LY range. You may be right about season 3 nBSG establishing a jump range, but I can't remember and the DVDs aren't out yet.

the Cylons are not idiots though and once the Borg catch up once or twice, they may simply jump multiple ships in multiple directions, or rally-jump to get out quickly.

Unless the borg in both scenarios can completely destroy the Cylons in a limited number of engagements, there's no reason the Cylon's can't run away with some new knowledge and bide their time for a counter-attack.

I agree, but unfortunately I think the borg just may be able to do just that -- completely destroy the cylons in just a few engagements. We've been saying a cylon basestar's total available throw-weight is roughly the equivalent of one (1) photon torpedo, maybe a handful if we count the nukes the basestar itself is packing for bombardment.

The cylons would have to 1) have a resurrection ship in range of the initial assault (likely), 2) figure out that they have to run (and decide to do so fast, without letting their arrogance get in the way), and 3) run far enough that they're out of borg sensor range.

[Turin]

I can't believe I didn't think of that! Even if the cube wipes out a handful of basestars in an instant, that just means a bunch of FTL cylon "souls" return to the Resurrection ship ready to spill their guts about what just happened. I was previously thinking the borg would always be hitting with surprise because there was no way for the cylons to send FTL signals.

Sorry to double-post, but this annoys me as a tech-plot-hole in the nBSG series. The cylon skinjobs can apparently transmit instantaneously across the void of space at FTL speeds, but we know the cylons use light-speed sensors (it's implicitly stated when the cylons arrive on New Caprica).

[PREDATOR490]

The Borg are likely to attempt tracing Cylon transmissions if they realise the Cylons are using them to hack into Borg systems and the chances of the Borg developing counters to Cylon technology will continue to increase the more trouble / intrest the Cylons incur. Especially if they get assimilated.

Borg territory is supposed to be large and its obvious from Voyager's encounters that the Borg have a force of ships that continue to explore far away from their own territory. Especially if you take the destruction of the Romulan and Federation bases as the work of the Borg which occured way before QWho.

If the Cylons are in / near the Borg region of space their isnt much they can do to get away from the Borg if they are being hunted like the E-D. The Borg have been constantly demonstrated as being relentless in their pursuit of anything they want. From what BoBW states the cube that came after them could be the same cube they encountered in QWho which means it had to trek a long way just to finish what was started. If the Borg were responsible for the destruction of the bases beforehand then its entirely possible that cube was already on its way to the Alpha Quadrant based on what they assimilated out of those bases. Either way If the Borg see something they want they will send a ship to the other end of the galaxy to get it.

With that in mind. If the Cylons are in the Delta Quadrant the chances of encountering a random Borg force is higher and will make it difficult to build fixed colones etc. since they will become a major liability causing the Cylons either to defend or flee leaving all their facilities to get mauled, which hands them to the Borg to assimilate or destroy.

Unless the Cylons have the ability to jump to another Quadrant or relocate to a region that has a species capable of acting as a barrier against random Borg scouts its going to be difficult for the Cylons to properly establish themselves in ST universe. The reverse for the Borg would certainly be more favourable to them but even then the chances are the Borg will remain defensive of their established territory and if the Cylons get effectively aggressive to the point it threatens Borg survival the Borg start pulling out pure destroying weapon ideas like in Scorpian.

[ThatGuyFromThatPlace]

tow big are the patrols? One or two ships may allow the Cylons a chance to get away from their base in the delta-quadrant before getting destroyed, but any more and The Borg will probably wipe out the Toasters in one pass.

In Galactica-verse, the Cylons will be much more likely to get away due to being spread out, no one attack will be fatal and unless the Borg are lucky enough to hit a resurrection ship on their first try, the Cylons will be forewarned, a threat of this magnitude is likely to elicit fast action from the Cylon 'leadership'.

A bit of a cop out, but the Cylon FTL resurrection may not be usable for sensors because it doesn't interact with normal matter in a way that lends to being used as a sensor. This is supported by the fact that not every base-star has a resurrection chamber, the res. ship probably needs special receivers that would be impractical to place on Base-Stars.

[Sidewinder]

Sorry to double-post, but this annoys me as a tech-plot-hole in the nBSG series. The cylon skinjobs can apparently transmit instantaneously across the void of space at FTL speeds, but we know the cylons use light-speed sensors (it's implicitly stated when the cylons arrive on New Caprica).

My theory is the skinjobs are CONSTANTLY transmitting to download memories into their next body. If they die, the resurrection ship stops receiving the transmissions, and will assume the skinjob is dead and activate the next body. (Of course, Season 4 might prove my theory wrong.)

[Coyote]

Skinjobs will take what they learned from their last death and apply it; thus it is similar, if slower, than Borg assimilation-learning techniques. The Skinjobs are also willing to take a nuke personally into an enemy ship and detonate it and themselves as Gina-6 did on the luxury ship (forget the episode name).

And I also agree with the assessment that Cylons would win on the ground-- we at least see Cylon Centurions using cover and indirect-fire (mortars) on Caprica when the Colonials were pinned down.

The Cylon FTL is cool, and seems to be near-instantatenaous, giving them a mobility advantage akin to Star Destroyers vs. Trek Warp. The problem is, Basestars are nothing more than crates for raiders, and have little intrinsic combat power of their own. So, sure, the flit in at almost knife-fight range, causing a pucker factor for a moment, but then proceed to beat away at you with Nerf Rockets. The Borg shields absorb this easily.

It seems the Cylons best strategy in space is to pop into transporter range, get a bunch of skinjobs with suicide nukes beamed into the Borg craft, then detonate.

[Sidewinder]

It seems the Cylons best strategy in space is to pop into transporter range, get a bunch of skinjobs with suicide nukes beamed into the Borg craft, then detonate.

Considering that transporter technology is present in the 'Battlestar Galactica' universe-- unless I missed something in Seasons 1 & 2-- I wonder how the nuke-armed Cylons will get aboard the Borg craft. Maybe let the Borg board a basestar, have a nuke-armed Cylon grab onto a drone and not let go, and hope that both the drone and the Cylon will be beamed back aboard the Borg craft?

[PREDATOR490]

tow big are the patrols? One or two ships may allow the Cylons a chance to get away from their base in the delta-quadrant before getting destroyed, but any more and The Borg will probably wipe out the Toasters in one pass.

Voyager encountered random Borg ships from the Probe to the Sphere to the Tactical cube while on its trek home. Putting aside the real possibility of complete retardation on the part of the Voyager crew, the encounter with the Tactical cube occured mid way through season 6. The point where Voyager was in Borg space occured in Scorpian which was at the cliff hanger point between Season 3 and 4.

Meaning Voyager had around 1 - 2 seasons worth of time to put distance between them and the Borg. Yet they encountered more than a few Borg ships including the Tactical cube supposed to be an uber cube and even found a Transwarp hub in season 7 even further away than where they found the Tactical cube I hope.

Basically meaning their is the possibility that similar Hubs could be located elsewhere and defended just as heavily as well as the added risk of passing ships anything from a Probe to a Tactical cube.
The Probe is more than likely going to get completely creamed compared to a Cube against the Cylons if it tries to take them all out but the chances of it doing a Rambo arent so great if the Borg know enough to realise it dosent have a chance of success.

We know from TNG that Borg did send scouts like Hugh's ship that didnt go around assimilating everything in sight. Just like the cube that came to rescue him didnt go on a rampage which would suggest the Borg do have some concept of discreation. There is the issue with the Romulan and Federation bases of course. If that WAS the Borg and the cube the E-D encountered in QWho was the Borg sending a proper assimilation ship then that would indicate the Borg will send a ship of appropriate strength to assimilate the target.

The Federation has only managed to defeat the Borg Cube assualts by the barest of margins so there is the possibility the Borg would have sent a much stronger force. If memory serves me didnt the Borg send a fleet to assimilate a race during Voyager, Dark Frontier I believe ?

Regardless, the Borg fleets we saw fighting in Scorpian, not just for defense but also for attack based on the 15 cubes smoking Voyager would serve to show that the Borg can and do realise some concept of sending more than one cube to engage the enemy. At least in the sense of defending themselves against destruction.

Scenario 1 depends entirely on what kind of ship the Cylons get the draw on. If its a probe and they are smart they will hopefully start packing before the cube(s) arrive thus securing a greater chance of survival. Although the chances are still rather slim given the fact they are essentially located in a region where the Borg have a significant free reign.

Scenario 2 depends more on the Borg actually. The Borg have demonstrated a slight ability to be diplomatic if they realise they can gain more through the ruse of cooperation so the Borg may just lay low until they have a power base before picking fights with tough opponents.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Also, no one has mentioned the effect of nukes and EMP on Borg...

BSG nukes seem to be in the tens of megatons range, which would make them about as powerful as a quantum torpedo or two. They could probably cause some damage to the cubes, but not enough to seriously mess them up. No idea what effect EMP would have; they've probably had some aliens lobbing nukes/EMP devices at them before and come up with some way to mitigate the effects, but then again this is the Borg we're talking about.

Where did you get the information on the yield of BSG nukes?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Nuclear weapons are radiation kills in space, and the Borg seem supremely suited to withstand radiation. Their drones work in hard vacuum. Unless the nuclear weapon burrowed under and detonated inside the cube, it could possibly be worse than a phaser. And then, it would have to penetrate shields and they'd need phasers for that. We've seen what torpedoes and phasers can do to a Borg cube in Q, Who.

Yes, we did. We also saw what torpedos did after the borg adapted in that same episode...Nothing. I'm not claiming infinite adapating abilities, but that is something that can't just be dismissed because previous trekkies tried to give it unlimited reach.