Halo 3 Story Discussion Thread [spoilers!]

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2007-10-01 05:37pm

Okay, havent yet finished the game on legendary so Im missing on the extra cinematics. Could somebody totally spoil me on the parts that come after the part where they show "117" on the Monument thingie?

Rawtooth · Post by **Rawtooth** » 2007-10-01 05:49pm

Fuck it, I was going to type it up, but here's a Youtube link.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2007-10-01 06:42pm

Rawtooth wrote:Fuck it, I was going to type it up, but here's a Youtube link.

Thanks. Gotta play through the final level again, was too impatient and didnt watch through the credits to see that extra tidbit.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-10-01 10:14pm

The scene after the credits is a paper unicorn, folks. It totally changes how you feel about the ending of the game.

NeoGoomba · Post by **NeoGoomba** » 2007-10-01 11:13pm

Edward James Olmos is in this game!?!?!

Andrew_Fireborn · Post by **Andrew_Fireborn** » 2007-10-02 01:48am

NeoGoomba wrote:Edward James Olmos is in this game!?!?!

No, but Westwood did get him to do Tiberian Sun, if you missed that. >_> Some... 7 years ago now?

He made a nice counterpoint to Kane in the few cut scenes they were both in.

As for Halo 3. It felt pretty epic from start to finish... Plus we lean a Spartan can survive a 2 kilo fall without much harm. Almost makes up for ending Halo 2 where they did.

The weapons I liked were in short supply though. (I rarely do mid range, If I can swing it, I'm running a shotgun + RL/Sniper combo.) But on Heroic the difficulty didn't feel too rapetastic, and I don't think the 'bosses' will be quite as annoying on Legendary (Oi, I LOATHE you Tartarus... such a lame battle...) though the new flood were evil beyond belief, not quite fatal, but annoyingly resiliant and often showing up with a horde of support and high wall positions.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2007-10-02 02:40am

Andrew_Fireborn wrote:
NeoGoomba wrote:Edward James Olmos is in this game!?!?!
No, but Westwood did get him to do Tiberian Sun, if you missed that. >_> Some... 7 years ago now?

He made a nice counterpoint to Kane in the few cut scenes they were both in.

Wrong "James."

James Earl Jones was in Tiberian Sun as General Solomon, while Edward James Olmos is Admiral Adama in NBSG.

He apparently isn't in Halo 3, though.

Andrew_Fireborn · Post by **Andrew_Fireborn** » 2007-10-02 02:42am

My mind is grown more disjointed... and I never was good at names. >_< Ah well.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-10-02 03:43am

Andrew_Fireborn wrote: As for Halo 3. It felt pretty epic from start to finish... Plus we lean a Spartan can survive a 2 kilo fall without much harm. Almost makes up for ending Halo 2 where they did.

How exactly does one fall two kilos? Is that like dropping five pounds?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2007-10-02 03:48am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Andrew_Fireborn wrote: As for Halo 3. It felt pretty epic from start to finish... Plus we lean a Spartan can survive a 2 kilo fall without much harm. Almost makes up for ending Halo 2 where they did.
How exactly does one fall two kilos? Is that like dropping five pounds?

I think he means 2 kilometers

2 kilograms would indeed be quite insignifigant

Andrew_Fireborn · Post by **Andrew_Fireborn** » 2007-10-02 03:57am

Yes, yes.

Honestly, after rereading it the second time after hitting submit, I figured I'd get hit for my thoughts getting jumbled there. Reads like I meant the fall made up for the cliff hanger.

Suppose that would have been too easy for you guys though.

On the game though: I do wish the Elites and Marines ended up fighting along side each other more often. The Elites are hardly in the actual game portions. And on my play through, were pretty much raped as soon as they showed up outside the cutscenes...

I realize they've got other battles to fight, including probably defending their own home world. Yet, since their former, and now their enemy, leadership is located on Earth for most of the game I would have expected at least a couple of major fights they would have gotten in on other than when the flood show up. (And they end up glassing it anyway...)

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2007-10-02 04:55am

Lord Revan wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Andrew_Fireborn wrote: As for Halo 3. It felt pretty epic from start to finish... Plus we lean a Spartan can survive a 2 kilo fall without much harm. Almost makes up for ending Halo 2 where they did.
How exactly does one fall two kilos? Is that like dropping five pounds?
I think he means 2 kilometers

2 kilograms would indeed be quite insignifigant

It's more significant than one thinks considering that the MC must have been falling at a far greater speed than terminal velocity as he detached from Truth's ship while it was entering the atmosphere.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2007-10-02 09:45am

Andrew_Fireborn wrote: I realize they've got other battles to fight, including probably defending their own home world. Yet, since their former, and now their enemy, leadership is located on Earth for most of the game I would have expected at least a couple of major fights they would have gotten in on other than when the flood show up. (And they end up glassing it anyway...)

Actually pretty much their entire fleet was parked outside High Charity as I recall, torching anything that tried to leave.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2007-10-03 02:56pm

SylasGaunt wrote:
Andrew_Fireborn wrote: I realize they've got other battles to fight, including probably defending their own home world. Yet, since their former, and now their enemy, leadership is located on Earth for most of the game I would have expected at least a couple of major fights they would have gotten in on other than when the flood show up. (And they end up glassing it anyway...)
Actually pretty much their entire fleet was parked outside High Charity as I recall, torching anything that tried to leave.

During Floodgate the Elites also mention that they had set up a quarantine around Halo, and the Arbiter specifies that the fleet was in the hundreds.

Not sure how they missed High Charity, but I'm guessing it probably steamrolled through their lines with sheer size.

CycloneRider052 · Post by **CycloneRider052** » 2007-10-03 03:09pm

My thoughts and conclusions on certain topics after finishing the game:

Where the fuck did Forward Unto Dawn's crew and the survivors go? Johnson said he was pulling everyone back to the ship just after the Chief and the Arbiter stopped Truth.

Why didn't Cortana just blow up In Amber Clad when she realised how bad the Flood infestation on High Charity had gotten?

Humanity being the chosen successors of the Forerunners is almost as fitting as them being the Forerunner's descendants, and properly motivates the Prophets with jealousy.

The terminals were a great way to disclose what happened during the time leading up to the firing. Of particular interest was the AI that sided WITH the Flood against the Forerunners.

The Libraries are, rather than being a storehouse of knowledge, but rather possibly a repository of genetic information or even samples of species stored in stasis to be re-introduced to their home enviroments after the firing.

The indexes are basically targetting information, as it spoke of the Librarian indexing every race he\she\it came across and attempted to save, which would explain why you need the index to fire the rings.[/i]

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2007-10-04 01:31am

SylasGaunt wrote:Judging by the way the data entries are laid out those would appear to be just the numbers for their respective homeworlds which makes the Grunt numbers make much more sense given their native tech level and how prevalent they are throughout the covenant, a large portion of their population would be on other worlds or with the fleets.

Even so, It still seems highly dubious the population would have dropped that drastically and quickly unless Truth had already glassed most of the planet's landmass, and his own transmission in "Crow's Nest" seems to indicate that he had yet to go that far. Additionally, Earth would no doubt be rendered uninhabitable by such a bombardment, yet it is clear from the game's ending that is not the case.

Unless, of course the HaloVerse Earth was already very sparsely populated, for some reason (maybe everyone moved out to the colonies very rapidly?).

Alexian Cale · Post by **Alexian Cale** » 2007-10-06 03:10am

Did anyone else notice that Truth underwent a massive change (aside from the fact that the great voice of Michael Wincott was replaced with the equally great -- yet completely different -- voice of Terrence Stamp)? To me, he was Regret 2.0. Turned into a semi-insane, freakishly deluded religious zealot instead of the sinister, manipulative little bastard who was simply out for more power that we saw in H2.

Maybe it's just me...

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-10-06 05:59am

With the rest of the head Prophets dead and the key to Halo in his grasp, he could drop all pretenses and just say whatever the hell he wanted to, knowing he would go unchallenged.

Natorgator · Post by **Natorgator** » 2007-10-06 01:25pm

Alexian Cale wrote:Did anyone else notice that Truth underwent a massive change (aside from the fact that the great voice of Michael Wincott was replaced with the equally great -- yet completely different -- voice of Terrence Stamp)? To me, he was Regret 2.0. Turned into a semi-insane, freakishly deluded religious zealot instead of the sinister, manipulative little bastard who was simply out for more power that we saw in H2.

Maybe it's just me...

Yeah, I really liked Michael Wincott better. I wonder why he didn't return this time around? He seemed much more diabolical.

Alexian Cale · Post by **Alexian Cale** » 2007-10-06 05:23pm

With the rest of the head Prophets dead and the key to Halo in his grasp, he could drop all pretenses and just say whatever the hell he wanted to, knowing he would go unchallenged.

I often compare Truth's orchestrated assassination of the Councilors and abandoning the Prophets of Regret and Mercy a parallel to Palpatine's decision in A New Hope to disband the Imperial Senate. In both cases, we've seen examples that these two parties (the Prophet of Truth and Emperor Palpatine) already held de facto supreme authority. The Prophets of Regret and Mercy ultimately deferred to Truth on all matters and -- though the Arbiter's execution was ordered by the High Council -- Truth himself said that "the terms" were ultimately up to him. He was the supreme dictator of the Covenant in all but name.

What I'm hoping to get across is that Truth's characterization, for me at least, changed dramatically between H2 and H3. In H2, he was a subtle, scheming sociopath hellbent on acquiring even more power -- though his true motives are a mystery. There was a massive surge of online speculation that Truth didn't subscribe to the notion of the Great Journey anywhere near to the level of delusion his fellow Hierarchs did. In H3, he reveals that he did not believe that the Elites believed in the 'promise of the Sacred Rings' -- yet that is completely ridiculous. They were as deluded about it as Mercy or Regret. Yet nothing during the events of H2 led me to believe that Truth himself did, outside of a means to exploit the rest of the Covenant.

I dunno, like I said, maybe it's just me. But he went from a Palpatine to a Shimrra in the span of five minutes, that is to say from a subtle and gifted manipulator to a thoroughly unstable, dangerous religious nut. Maybe he always was a nut beneath the surface, but there were no real hints to it, in my opinion.

Yeah, I really liked Michael Wincott better. I wonder why he didn't return this time around? He seemed much more diabolical.

Stamp and Wincott both have ubermad voice over skills, and both of them convey some serious badassery. I have no real preference over the other, aside from the fact that Wincott was first and established a character from Truth that -- in my mind -- was abandoned for H3, which is why I'd have preferred it if they stuck to just one.

Dominus · Post by **Dominus** » 2007-10-06 07:04pm

Alexian Cale wrote:I dunno, like I said, maybe it's just me. But he went from a Palpatine to a Shimrra in the span of five minutes, that is to say from a subtle and gifted manipulator to a thoroughly unstable, dangerous religious nut. Maybe he always was a nut beneath the surface, but there were no real hints to it, in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more. Leaving aside the issue of voice actors for now (both Stamp and Wincott are excellent in my opinion), I must say that one of the most disappointing aspects of Halo 3 was in the handling of Truth's character. I, too, saw his actions in H2 as the sort of Machiavellian political schemes and power plays that would have made Palpatine proud, and think there was ample (if circumstancial) evidence to suggest that the Hierarch did not believe in the promise of the Great Journey and saw it only as a useful tool to motivate the rest of the Covenant to die in vast numbers for him. And yet in 3 he has become, as you said, simply Regret Redux, much to my distaste.

Ma Deuce wrote: Unless, of course the HaloVerse Earth was already very sparsely populated, for some reason (maybe everyone moved out to the colonies very rapidly?).

Not to my knowledge. While the various UNSC timelines floating around all make specific mention of Earth's overpopulation being one of the reasons why the United Nations grew so powerful (to quell the resultant civil disorder and put down the neo-communist/fascist movements that sprang up in the Sol system), there's no mention of Earth becoming so depopulated in the subsequent colonial rush that its total population dropped to a level significantly less than it was at the turn of the 20th century. That said, the Inner Colonies were apparently settled rather quickly and under an aura of considerable enthusiasm, so I suppose it is possible that Earth's population experienced a significant decline after the year 2300 due to extrasolar emigration.

Alexian Cale · Post by **Alexian Cale** » 2007-10-06 10:46pm

I couldn't agree more. Leaving aside the issue of voice actors for now (both Stamp and Wincott are excellent in my opinion), I must say that one of the most disappointing aspects of Halo 3 was in the handling of Truth's character. I, too, saw his actions in H2 as the sort of Machiavellian political schemes and power plays that would have made Palpatine proud, and think there was ample (if circumstancial) evidence to suggest that the Hierarch did not believe in the promise of the Great Journey and saw it only as a useful tool to motivate the rest of the Covenant to die in vast numbers for him. And yet in 3 he has become, as you said, simply Regret Redux, much to my distaste.

Bingo.

It's good to know that I'm not the only one who reached that conclusion. Speculation at Truth's ultimate motives is what made him an interesting antagonist for the Master Chief and the Arbiter; I am also a big fan of 343 Guilty Spark and the Gravemind, but we've known from the very beginning what fueled Spark's actions: protocol. And, for all of Bungie's attempts to dip the Gravemind in enigma, we ultimately knew what his goal was: to feed. We couldn't place a finger exactly on what Truth ultimately wanted, which is what made him the most frightening and foremost of the villains.

That he was given such a minor role was... disappointing.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2007-10-06 11:01pm

And, for all of Bungie's attempts to dip the Gravemind in enigma, we ultimately knew what his goal was: to feed.

Well, we knew what his goal was, but we didn't know what his motivations were. Halo 3 presents some interesting insights into what the Gravemind is thinking, and in many ways runs parallel to the Covenant's religious motivations; the Covenant are deluded and want to become gods, while the Gravemind believes it is a god.

Alexian Cale · Post by **Alexian Cale** » 2007-10-06 11:10pm

Aren't goals and motivations the same thing, essentially? The Gravemind -- by nature -- is compelled to feed. That's what he has to do. To consume every biological being into the Flood.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2007-10-06 11:17pm

Alexian Cale wrote:Aren't goals and motivations the same thing, essentially? The Gravemind -- by nature -- is compelled to feed. That's what he has to do. To consume every biological being into the Flood.

Having an objective is one thing, but the reasoning for that objective is something completely different. Sure, he wants to consume all lif einto the Flood, but why he wants to do it is a rather interesting thing; he's not doing it (entirely) because of a biological imperative to consume, but because he believes he is furthering the state of the universe toward its inevitable conclusion....unless, of course, he's lying to Mendicant Bias, but the Gravemind has always been remarkably honest about his intentions.