Gundam 00: The Stupid, It Burns

[General Zod]

I watched the 'Mobile Suit Gundam' movies, and I didn't like them-- no empathetic characters. I watched two of the 'Mobile Suit Gundam SEED' movies and 34 episodes of 'Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny'-- they had empathetic characters, but the stories were full of bullshit.

Then I watched 'Full Metal Panic'-- that was entertaining, and for once, the hero isn't a damn pacifist who hypocritically fights for peace.

Go watch Mobile Fighter G Gundam. It has nothing to do with the main Gundam universe but it's still awesome.

[ray245]

I watched the 'Mobile Suit Gundam' movies, and I didn't like them-- no empathetic characters. I watched two of the 'Mobile Suit Gundam SEED' movies and 34 episodes of 'Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny'-- they had empathetic characters, but the stories were full of bullshit.

Then I watched 'Full Metal Panic'-- that was entertaining, and for once, the hero isn't a damn pacifist who hypocritically fights for peace.

Go watch Mobile Fighter G Gundam. It has nothing to do with the main Gundam universe but it's still awesome.

Wait...the gundam series is supposed to be connected??

[General Zod]

Wait...the gundam series is supposed to be connected??

Only the Universal Century timeline. Any other Gundam series (sans drek like Seed/Seed-Destiny) have nothing to do with each other and are generally considered AU (alternate universe).

[Dark Hellion]

Actually, all the gundam are loosely connected as we see in the Dark History of Turn A. How they are is very up in the air, as it seems that humanity undergoes multiple dark ages followed by rebuilding into mobile suit use cycles. Of course there are tons and tons of plotholes with this, so I don't have the foggiest how it actually works.

Currently there is the original UC with First gundam, 08th MS team, 0080, 0083, Zeta, Double Zeta, Char's Counterattack, F91, Victory, and then sorta Turn A.

Gundam X is possibly the closest AU being a reimagining of the OYW and post OYW where the seventh Space War destroys most of Earth. I also think it is the most fun of a gundam series, because the hero knows when to be bad. He isn't a fucking pussy who doesn't kill people, but a lying manipulating kid learning how to be a man from Capt. Badass Jamil Neate. And he gets the girl.

G Gundam is hillarious fighting fun. It is an interesting romp through kung fu and samurai movies with giant robots, heart beams, and a giant fucking windmill gundam. It is worth watching, even through all the groan inducing sections.

Wing and Eternal Waltz are terrible AU series. They have poor pacing, bishy characters for no good reason, the hero is supposed to be cool, but ends up sounding like a fucking plank of wood was chosen for the role, and the secondary characters lose tons of development as they choose to explore Heero's inability to act.

Seed and Seed Destiny are worse than Wing. Despite pretty animation the suit design is needlessly complex, with no explanation (unlike say Zeta, or Victory) and the characters all get shitted on at some point by poor writing. Yzaak was interesting and they developed him a lot in the end of Seed and the beginning of destiny, just to throw him away, then give him a bit part at the end for no fucking reason. Dearka got treated worse, and we had one of the few chances for a gundam character to develop a working romantic relationship, and yet by Destiny's end he still can't get it together with Millaria, despite how much hinting and flirting we get from the two. Shin was fucking worthless, how he ever beats Athrun is totally fucking unknown, yet alone beating Kira. I mean he comments on how fucking good Yzaak and Dearka are in shitty Zakus, so why can't Athrun in any fucking suit kick his ass? And Kira in Freedom. It shouldn't have been a contest. But Kira and Athrun needed suit upgrades, so we had to make a plot point to allow it. I mean, its not like other gundam pilots have traded their gundams in for new units during the show without the previous unit being destroyed (cough Zeta, Double Zeta, Victory, Gundam X, 08th, Chars Counterattack, etc).

Man, I needed a good gundam rant. I am spend folks. Good day.

[General Zod]

Actually, all the gundam are loosely connected as we see in the Dark History of Turn A. How they are is very up in the air, as it seems that humanity undergoes multiple dark ages followed by rebuilding into mobile suit use cycles. Of course there are tons and tons of plotholes with this, so I don't have the foggiest how it actually works.

Or they're just alternate universes and Turn A is the latest AU entry to keep things easier. I'm not aware of anything official that backs up what you're suggesting.

[Dark Hellion]

When they go through the Dark History during Turn A, we see clips from almost all previous AU sources. We see Wing, G Gundam, and Gundam X, and they are specifically said as being during the past. How it works is totally unknown through.

[General Zod]

When they go through the Dark History during Turn A, we see clips from almost all previous AU sources. We see Wing, G Gundam, and Gundam X, and they are specifically said as being during the past. How it works is totally unknown through.

Either way attempting to suggest they're all from the same universe is utterly retarded and has more plotholes than your typical star trek episode. It's easiest to write it off as merely another AU without having to come up with contrived explanations.

[Admiral Valdemar]

ALL of Gundam involves the heroes and villains getting new suits halfway through, if only to allow more models to be sold by Bandai, which is no different to how Transformers went with Hasbro.

Plus, given the length of these series, people get bored of having TEH ULTIMATE Gundam from the get go, so you have to make it more interesting.

Personally, I would be more hooked if one of the villains got a tank, say, a Bolo and used that instead. And kicked much ass.

It'd be hilarious. What's that? Magical Particle X kills radar so we have to go to ultrasonic swords? Nah, I'll plink you off with a fusing slither of hydrogen from 1,000 km away using optical tracking, kthxbye.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I satill think we should make a fan Gundam 300, just think, the thousand nations of the Earth Empire come for us. Purhaps we shouldn't have shoved their emisarries out that airlock?

[Dark Hellion]

Minowsky particles actually block long range Optical Tracking as well, as seen in ep. 1 of MS IGLOO.

No MS don't make sense, but at least UC rewrote a chunk of particle physics to try. Seed didn't even make that effort.

And yes Zod, that is exactly what I was getting at. Canon says one thing, but common sense says the other. In this case I think Common sense yells a lot louder, and either the archive contains possible pasts, or something else similar. Some bullshit rationalization has to work.

[Ritterin Sophia]

When they go through the Dark History during Turn A, we see clips from almost all previous AU sources. We see Wing, G Gundam, and Gundam X, and they are specifically said as being during the past. How it works is totally unknown through.

Sunrise's policy is that you believe what you chose to believe, in regards to the Dark History. Personally it can't be really since it doesn't explain how all the unrenewable resources keep coming back.

[Commander 598]

Minowsky particles actually block long range Optical Tracking as well, as seen in ep. 1 of MS IGLOO.

Not to mention that Minovsky Particles have a knack for randomly deflecting warship grade beam weapons if there just happens to be a concentrated batch aligned just right in the way, as seen in MS IGLOO Ep 1.

[Ford Prefect]

It'd be hilarious. What's that? Magical Particle X kills radar so we have to go to ultrasonic swords? Nah, I'll plink you off with a fusing slither of hydrogen from 1,000 km away using optical tracking, kthxbye.

The earth has this thing called a horizon. Oh snap!

[Dark Hellion]

So, from episode 3, it turns out Graham and Billy are very very good friends. I actually liked this development. And seeing the gundam pilots interact makes me feel like this is a Wing Remake Ala Seed being a 0079 remake. Hopefully it's better.

[VF5SS]

So, from episode 3, it turns out Graham and Billy are very very good friends.

"I like to go in as quickly as possible."

"That's why I fell for him."

:3

[Admiral Valdemar]

Okay, what was that about 300 kilotonne missiles in the VLS pod disposed of by the transforming Gundam? I assume that means capacity for such missiles (which seems meaningless), since I'll be goddamned if that Indian base was hit with a dozen high-end tactical nukes.

At least the designs aren't as lame as SEED, even if the solar powered Gundam idea is hilarious.

Speaking of hilarious, apparently the IRA have declared disarmament and want peace. Only in the bizarre fictional fantasy that is Bandaiworld.

No, wait a minute...

The earth has this thing called a horizon. Oh snap!

Which missiles pass over quite well. Fortunately, Bolos do not engage at fistfight range. Someone should let the world's military know of this revolutionary new tactic. Again, this assumes these are Minovsky particles, which they may well be, but it's yet to be stated other than than they have a solar furnace on their backs (and I can solar power the Nimitz). Beam weapons are by no means the end of it anyway, when you have a great many missiles in different flavours. One need only surround the target's fuzzy image in a shrapnel cloud of different missile strikes to get a reasonable kill ratio, and indeed Bolos have done this when their accuracy has been affected.

[VF5SS]

Okay, what was that about 300 kilotonne missiles in the VLS pod disposed of by the transforming Gundam? I assume that means capacity for such missiles (which seems meaningless), since I'll be goddamned if that Indian base was hit with a dozen high-end tactical nukes.

Many of the translations coming out are less than accurate.

At least the designs aren't as lame as SEED, even if the solar powered Gundam idea is hilarious.

It's not solar energy, it's energy of the sun or some shit. So basically the handy dandy fusion reactor design.

Speaking of hilarious, apparently the IRA have declared disarmament and want peace. Only in the bizarre fictional fantasy that is Bandaiworld.

I blame Bono. Also Bandai doesn't write Gundam, that's Sunrise. Bandai only markets the shows.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Many of the translations coming out are less than accurate.

Thought as much. There's no rational way to explain that comment without nukes suddenly being firecrackers, or the engineer being a fucking moron with a huge red herring.

It's not solar energy, it's energy of the sun or some shit. So basically the handy dandy fusion reactor design.

I was thinking fusion, but I have to say it's likely a special crystal that stores solar energy, like that glass that can trap photons and emit them over time. You'd need solar cells of several hundred square metres to run any real machine like that (boy, that'd make things fun).

I blame Bono. Also Bandai doesn't write Gundam, that's Sunrise. Bandai only markets the shows.

That clears that up, I thought Sunrise were a subsidiary animation studio of Bandai and fell under their umbrella. Personally, I want some shocks in this series rather than the same-old stuff with new characters (okay, mostly new. We have another Heero Yuy here) and mecha. If that Indian brass in his clunky suit ripped off Heero clone's Gundam's head, it'd be shocking AND funny. Lead character gets a new suit after three eps!

Won't somebody think of the marketing opportunities!

[The Yosemite Bear]

they all die of Gangreen?

[Ford Prefect]

Which missiles pass over quite well. Fortunately, Bolos do not engage at fistfight range. Someone should let the world's military know of this revolutionary new tactic. Again, this assumes these are Minovsky particles, which they may well be, but it's yet to be stated other than than they have a solar furnace on their backs (and I can solar power the Nimitz). Beam weapons are by no means the end of it anyway, when you have a great many missiles in different flavours. One need only surround the target's fuzzy image in a shrapnel cloud of different missile strikes to get a reasonable kill ratio, and indeed Bolos have done this when their accuracy has been affected.

Valdy, I hate to have to point this out to you, but I was specifically referring to the Hellbore, the specific weapon which you specifically mentioned in your post. I know that Bolos have missiles, and I know how far they can reach. I wasn't actually being serious - you might want to think about turning on your humour, as not every mention of tanks in a mecha thread or mecha in a tank thread needs to turn into a serious debate about capabilities. Because I don't know about you, but I came into this thread with a view to look at its own merits as a show, not deal with yet another fucking tank versus mechs thing. Or hell, to have yet another person deride Gundams using swords, somehow completely missing the fact that it's an action show intended to be exciting, not a fucking documentary.

So what I'm going to do is actually talk about the show, given I've seen the first two episodes now. Naturally, the first things that strikes me, as it should strike everyone, is holy fucking epic cel detail. I mean, wow, nicely done there Sunrise, keep it up. It's better than it was in Code Geass, with the added bonus of not having noodle people (just bishounen). I've never actually been particularly enamoured with Gundam before, but at the very least the villain of thisp iece looks awesome enough to keep me involved (also, the drop that he was dead two hundred years ago has actually got me intruiged). It has a few novel things in at as well - I laughed when that AEU asshole turned on his vibroblade and had the onlookers squirming in pain.

Also, I thought that the opening scenes involving a younger Setsuna running from the Anf MS. The flashbacks were handled quite well, and the droning recording talking about how this is a 'holy war' was suitably ominous. Also, I think Cestial Being's plan is pretty funny; I mean, originally I was wondering how they intended to make everyone get all touchy feely, given how they seemed to be going about pissing people off. Then it turns out that going around pissing people off is their plan. Awesome.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Valdy, I hate to have to point this out to you, but I was specifically referring to the Hellbore, the specific weapon which you specifically mentioned in your post. I know that Bolos have missiles, and I know how far they can reach. I wasn't actually being serious - you might want to think about turning on your humour, as not every mention of tanks in a mecha thread or mecha in a tank thread needs to turn into a serious debate about capabilities. Because I don't know about you, but I came into this thread with a view to look at its own merits as a show, not deal with yet another fucking tank versus mechs thing. Or hell, to have yet another person deride Gundams using swords, somehow completely missing the fact that it's an action show intended to be exciting, not a fucking documentary.

It's the same thing over and over though. I point out the flaws in Gundam because they're the same flaws that existed in '79. There are plenty of other mecha shows that don't get as tedious as Gundam.

You're WRONG and you're a GROTESQUELY UGLY FREAK. Thanks.

So what I'm going to do is actually talk about the show, given I've seen the first two episodes now. Naturally, the first things that strikes me, as it should strike everyone, is holy fucking epic cel detail. I mean, wow, nicely done there Sunrise, keep it up. It's better than it was in Code Geass, with the added bonus of not having noodle people (just bishounen). I've never actually been particularly enamoured with Gundam before, but at the very least the villain of thisp iece looks awesome enough to keep me involved (also, the drop that he was dead two hundred years ago has actually got me intruiged). It has a few novel things in at as well - I laughed when that AEU asshole turned on his vibroblade and had the onlookers squirming in pain.

The attention to detail and animation is far better than SEED. The designs are the icing on the cake, given they don't look anywhere near as dumb as SEED's, thankfully. Vibroblade effects and the like always a good touch.

Also, I thought that the opening scenes involving a younger Setsuna running from the Anf MS. The flashbacks were handled quite well, and the droning recording talking about how this is a 'holy war' was suitably ominous. Also, I think Cestial Being's plan is pretty funny; I mean, originally I was wondering how they intended to make everyone get all touchy feely, given how they seemed to be going about pissing people off. Then it turns out that going around pissing people off is their plan. Awesome.

Their whole appearance is construed as a sick joke by everyone anyway. To stop violence by... using violence. That's just about the oldest trick in the book and is indeed the reason we still fight wars anyway. Celestial Being is just taking it upon them to be some arbiter in this pissing match that we call existence and judging what is good and bad conduct themselves. I'm sure a great many real-life institutions in the past have tried this and failed too by becoming what they aimed to prevent. It's going to be funny seeing how they carry on this cute revolution of theirs when the whole world turns against them, as they hope will happen. They may have a tech advantage right now, but I guarantee that won't last and quantity has a quality all of its own.

They better remain like the Tracy brothers and keep their pseudo-International Rescue outfit low profile. Getting found out is the end for them.

[Ford Prefect]

It's the same thing over and over though. I point out the flaws in Gundam because they're the same flaws that existed in '79. There are plenty of other mecha shows that don't get as tedious as Gundam.

Lucky for me, this is the first Gundam show I've ever watched, so neener neener.

You're WRONG and you're a GROTESQUELY UGLY FREAK. Thanks.

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Failure.

Seriously, what is that?

The attention to detail and animation is far better than SEED. The designs are the icing on the cake, given they don't look anywhere near as dumb as SEED's, thankfully. Vibroblade effects and the like always a good touch.

Speaking of designs, isn't the Human Reform League's Tieren pretty much the definition of awesome? Occassionally I've found people who say 'if mecha existed, they'd look like stuff out of Battletech'. They're wrong - if giant robots actually existed, they'd look like the Motherfucking Tieren.

Their whole appearance is construed as a sick joke by everyone anyway. To stop violence by... using violence. That's just about the oldest trick in the book and is indeed the reason we still fight wars anyway.

Graham might be a nut with a funny hat, but he certainly recognises that. I'm not sureh e quite understand just what they're doing.

Celestial Being is just taking it upon them to be some arbiter in this pissing match that we call existence and judging what is good and bad conduct themselves. I'm sure a great many real-life institutions in the past have tried this and failed too by becoming what they aimed to prevent. It's going to be funny seeing how they carry on this cute revolution of theirs when the whole world turns against them, as they hope will happen. They may have a tech advantage right now, but I guarantee that won't last and quantity has a quality all of its own.

I think that's the general idea. Their Gundams are more advanced than all other MS units in use currently, but if everyone got their act together they could wipe out Celestial Being. Naturally their leader is going to turn out evil (look at him!), but I'm fairly sure that they understand that if their plan suceeds, they will all be dead. I feel sort of sorry for the crew of the Ptolemaeus, given that they probably don't know (though in comparison, I think the Meisters do know, but for one reason or the other, don't care).

They better remain like the Tracy brothers and keep their pseudo-International Rescue outfit low profile. Getting found out is the end for them.

Stand by for action!

[VF5SS]

That clears that up, I thought Sunrise were a subsidiary animation studio of Bandai and fell under their umbrella.

Actually Bandai did buy Sunrise. They used to be separate but now they're basically getting a more direct paycheck. As bad as SEED and SEED Destiny might have been, it's really the director's fault and not Bandai's.

If that Indian brass in his clunky suit ripped off Heero clone's Gundam's head, it'd be shocking AND funny. Lead character gets a new suit after three eps!

I lolled when the Tieren flight type came in. It looked a little goofy. But then Seiji actually grappled the Exia and was really gonna do some damage. I love Setsunna's "Don't touch me!" attitude. Also how he's going to be uke with LOCKON STRATOS!

Won't somebody think of the marketing opportunities!

You don't know Bandai that well. I really doesn't matter how long something is in the show. They're make toys and models and people will buy them.

[Redleader34]

Honestly, I don't want to me too here, but, Gundam 00 looks good. Hell, we at least get main characters who are strong, but if any idiot with a large scale weapon gets close, its over, unless GN sheilds block nukes (5 USD says that brings us our Gundam 0{0?} from the intro sequence. The droping of advanced technology doesn't seem to help Celestal being as well. Also, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU NOT IN HIDING? Living in the open? As the pilots of the most powerfull machines ever? Another odd thing, about 00, is that it seems that Solar Power ((I wil talk to lolfang about his subs)) is the key thing here. Could a solar setup like that possibly work?

[VF5SS]

Setsunna isn't a Heero clone. Heero would've tried to blow himself up as soon as that Tieren Flight Type touched him.