SirNitram wrote:Auto really struck me as an Asimovian robot in his actions. Especially in two telling ways: He had to reveal the probe's report and what it meant. And then he said 'Humanity will survive'. Zeroth Law right there.
Don't even have to Zeroth Law it, which is what actually makes this a great Asimov style story, because the First Law applies. Auto never harmed anyone, even the Captain, even though doing so would have ensured that no one could have changed the status quo and humanity would have continued on.
Returning to Earth would have almost certainly caused some or all of the human crew of the ship to come to harm, particularly based on the last transmission they received from Earth. Staying and keeping all the humans wrapped up in their safe little couches guarantees none of them come to harm. Therefore, Auto had to have arranged for the plant that would have triggered colonization to be lost and when the jig was up had to refuse the order to return to Earth.
That's actually exactly the sort of logical problem that Asimov would have cooked up.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet
"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert
"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
SirNitram wrote:Auto really struck me as an Asimovian robot in his actions. Especially in two telling ways: He had to reveal the probe's report and what it meant. And then he said 'Humanity will survive'. Zeroth Law right there.
Don't even have to Zeroth Law it, which is what actually makes this a great Asimov style story, because the First Law applies. Auto never harmed anyone, even the Captain, even though doing so would have ensured that no one could have changed the status quo and humanity would have continued on.
Returning to Earth would have almost certainly caused some or all of the human crew of the ship to come to harm, particularly based on the last transmission they received from Earth. Staying and keeping all the humans wrapped up in their safe little couches guarantees none of them come to harm. Therefore, Auto had to have arranged for the plant that would have triggered colonization to be lost and when the jig was up had to refuse the order to return to Earth.
That's actually exactly the sort of logical problem that Asimov would have cooked up.
Err...don't you remember Auto flinging the captain around the cabin towards the end of the movie?
Molyneux wrote:Err...don't you remember Auto flinging the captain around the cabin towards the end of the movie?
The Captain most likely would not have come to life-threatening harm from that-- certainly nothing their medical droids couldn't handle.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around! If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!! Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Molyneux wrote:Err...don't you remember Auto flinging the captain around the cabin towards the end of the movie?
The Captain most likely would not have come to life-threatening harm from that-- certainly nothing their medical droids couldn't handle.
Yes, but in the original Asimov stories, that would be breaking the First Law - no harm, no matter how unlikely it is for that harm to lead to death. Still, I guess it works for a slightly less strict reading of the idea.
Also brain-bug, the Axiom is a space ship in space, turning it on it's side should not make everything slide that way, unless the Autopilot did that and move the artificial gravity around... or something, it makes no bloody sense.
I figured that was the result of acceleration. I was actually more annoyed by the probe ship doing close fly-bys of the Moon, the Sun, and Saturn, pretty as it was. (Well, and the fact that the probe ship never seemed to go into "hyperdrive," but the Axiom did...relativistic speed perhaps? But then the cockroach couldn't have been still around...)
"I spit on metaphysics, sir."
"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty
This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal. -Tanasinn
You can't expect sodomy to ruin every conservative politician in this country. -Battlehymn Republic
Also brain-bug, the Axiom is a space ship in space, turning it on it's side should not make everything slide that way, unless the Autopilot did that and move the artificial gravity around... or something, it makes no bloody sense.
I figured that was the result of acceleration. I was actually more annoyed by the probe ship doing close fly-bys of the Moon, the Sun, and Saturn, pretty as it was. (Well, and the fact that the probe ship never seemed to go into "hyperdrive," but the Axiom did...relativistic speed perhaps? But then the cockroach couldn't have been still around...)
Molyneux wrote:Err...don't you remember Auto flinging the captain around the cabin towards the end of the movie?
The Captain most likely would not have come to life-threatening harm from that-- certainly nothing their medical droids couldn't handle.
Yes, but in the original Asimov stories, that would be breaking the First Law - no harm, no matter how unlikely it is for that harm to lead to death. Still, I guess it works for a slightly less strict reading of the idea.
I think on reflection that the robots on the Axiom might not be literal three-law robots, but hold to the spirit of the laws. They obey orders, protect humans and generally follow all their directives to the best of their abilities. However, they can in extreme circumstances override their directives. I think EVE is one of the best examples of this, overriding her orders in order to stay with Wall-E on the trash deck.
And also, Otto was endangering lots of lives, not just the Captain's durring that fight. People should have been crushed to death by that pile.
Commander of the MFS Darwinian Selection Method (sexual)
Also brain-bug, the Axiom is a space ship in space, turning it on it's side should not make everything slide that way, unless the Autopilot did that and move the artificial gravity around... or something, it makes no bloody sense.
I figured that was the result of acceleration. I was actually more annoyed by the probe ship doing close fly-bys of the Moon, the Sun, and Saturn, pretty as it was. (Well, and the fact that the probe ship never seemed to go into "hyperdrive," but the Axiom did...relativistic speed perhaps? But then the cockroach couldn't have been still around...)
Mutant, immortal cockroach.
He's eating 700 yr old TWINKIES! Of course he's IMMORTAL!
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Molyneux wrote:Err...don't you remember Auto flinging the captain around the cabin towards the end of the movie?
I don't recall the Captain coming to harm in that. Besides, I thought a robot could physically restrain someone to prevent other people from coming to harm, even true Asimov robots.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet
"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert
"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
Molyneux wrote:Err...don't you remember Auto flinging the captain around the cabin towards the end of the movie?
I don't recall the Captain coming to harm in that. Besides, I thought a robot could physically restrain someone to prevent other people from coming to harm, even true Asimov robots.
Molyneux wrote:Err...don't you remember Auto flinging the captain around the cabin towards the end of the movie?
I don't recall the Captain coming to harm in that. Besides, I thought a robot could physically restrain someone to prevent other people from coming to harm, even true Asimov robots.
It was slamming him against consoles!
Yes, but the Captain was so bloated and fat, I doubt he felt much of it....
Went see it Monday, made of pure win and awesome. I need to see this movie again.
XBL: Darek Silver | Wii Friend: 5602 6414 0598 0225 LibriumArcana - Roleplaying, Fiction, Irreverence Trekker (TOS, TNG/DS9-Era) | Warsie (semi-movie purist) | B5'er | TransFan Cult of Vin Diesel: While it is well known that James Earl Jones performed the voice of Darth Vader, it is less appreciated that Vin Diesel performs the voice of James Earl Jones.
Is this the same roach WallE runs over in the trailer?
Brotherhood of the Bear Monkey Clonemaster , Anti Care Bears League,
Bureaucrat and BOFH of the HAB,
Skunk Works director of the Mecha Maniacs,
Black Mage,
Typhonis 1 wrote:Is this the same roach WallE runs over in the trailer?
Yes. His pet.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Anyone else notice the yellow Toyota pickup truck on Earth? The one that has been in most of the other Pixar movies.
Writer's Guild 'Ghost in the Machine'/Decepticon 'Devastator'/BOTM 'Space Ape'/Justice League 'The Tick'
"The best part of 'believe' is the lie."
It's always the quiet ones.
Lord Relvenous wrote:And that one dude that does at least one voice in every movie. IIRC, the captain's voice. If not him, the first enlightened male.
The first enlightened male.
Major Derlin, Cliff Claven.... John Ratzenberger
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it. Blank Yellow (NSFW)
I thought it was a great movie. I had an emotional attachment to the protagonist by the end. Really good stuff. I'd see it again if someone went along.
What I found absolutely depressing, though, was the conservative commentary. People actually panned the movie as "left wing liberal propaganda" because it had a consumerist/ecological theme. They could even leave a friendly movie like that alone without attacking it.
Lord Relvenous wrote:And that one dude that does at least one voice in every movie. IIRC, the captain's voice. If not him, the first enlightened male.
The first enlightened male.
Major Derlin, Cliff Claven.... John Ratzenberger
And what was the name of the 'First Enlightened Male'? JOHN.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Molyneux wrote:It was slamming him against consoles!
Yes, but he didn't come to harm from it. Despite his clearly gross medical problems, he was perfectly fine after tussling with Auto. You could make a case that Auto violated the First Law by aggressively attempting to restrain the captain at all, but it was to prevent a whole lot more people from coming to harm on Earth. Short of digging up Asimov as asking him to make a ruling, it's a real gray area.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet
"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert
"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
I just save it myself with the family. They hated it for reasons I don't claim to understand, but I really like it, though I must say that for something marketed as a kid's movie, it was pretty damn chilling seeing what had become of humanity.
Am I the only one who thought that Otto just screamed HAL tribute? I mean, certainly the Asimov influences were very much there, but when the Captain was trying to return to Earth, I wouldn't have been surprised if it had started going, "Dave? I can't let you do that, Dave."
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
Trogdor wrote:I just save it myself with the family. They hated it for reasons I don't claim to understand, but I really like it, though I must say that for something marketed as a kid's movie, it was pretty damn chilling seeing what had become of humanity.
Am I the only one who thought that Otto just screamed HAL tribute? I mean, certainly the Asimov influences were very much there, but when the Captain was trying to return to Earth, I wouldn't have been surprised if it had started going, "Dave? I can't let you do that, Dave."
The people involved in WALL-E have stated that Auto is a tribute to HAL.
^ I definitely see that, but he also had a very Cylon-like voice IMO.
"I spit on metaphysics, sir."
"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty
This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal. -Tanasinn
You can't expect sodomy to ruin every conservative politician in this country. -Battlehymn Republic
Anguirus wrote:^ I definitely see that, but he also had a very Cylon-like voice IMO.
Like Wall-E's startup noise, Auto's voice is a Mac product: the Mac Voice program
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Commander of the MFS Darwinian Selection Method (sexual)
