Doctor Who S5E9 "Cold Blood" Spoilers

[Gramzamber]

Like I said, if his plan had come to fruition and a peace treaty signed, they would have found out even if he kept his mouth shut. And when you are trying to negotiate from a position of weakness it doesn't pay to dick around with your captors by refusing to answer a question.

He could, you know, not tell the psycho racist military whackjob that humans exterminated her kind in every other encounter, and phrase it in such a way where the humans are 100% at fault for picking on poor innocent Silurians.

No, but if the Silurians are now willing to sit down and talk, thats half the job done already.

No, the leader who couldn't control his own damn military was willing to sit down and talk.
Meanwhile the military was marching to war regardless of the fate of the one on the surface. The general lady repeatedly tried to execute the humans, refused to negociate, murdered the scientist guy (her own people) and was ready to stage a coup.
The negociations were essentially between two civilians with no political clout and a head of state with no ability to control his people.

[NecronLord]

I don't remember him ever stooping to torture,

Then your memory is rather poor.

[mr friendly guy]

I was more referring to the Doctor's moronic recounting of previous human/Silurian encounters as "hurf hurf humans attacked and killed" along with his general pissyness about guns, yes.

.

I already pretty much agreed that it was a bit lopsided in the retelling.

The pissyness about guns is easily enough to explain as he had his plan to disable the Silurians and used them to exchange hostages. When the Silurians stopped his first plan, he still managed to capture a Silurian for that purpose. Letting some human use weapons (assuming Ambrose didn't get herself hurt because I don't see the non captured Silurians getting into point blank range shouting kill me) would be detrimental to that plan as he loses his hostages.

I see this as more of a "I can do a better job than you and you are going to make things worse" (which lets face it, he still did by capturing alive a hostage) rather than a hurf hurf humans can't defend themselves Mmmkay. The first attitude is arrogant and as I said before, it would have been prudent to let them have weapons in case all the Doctor's plans failed, however its not the stupid and morally indefensible attitude you painted. I will even point out several times in NuWho where he didn't exactly object to humans using guns when... wait for it, he wasn't trying to capture the enemy alive.

He could, you know, not tell the psycho racist military whackjob that humans exterminated her kind in every other encounter, and phrase it in such a way where the humans are 100% at fault for picking on poor innocent Silurians.

They kind of had him surrounded with guns. I know sometimes the Doctor pisses people off regardless but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor here. Come on, if a terrorist had a gun to your head and starts ranting about the evil decadent West and firing questions at you, most people won't go with the internet tough guy route, and say either what the other guy wants to hear or less provocative.

No, the leader who couldn't control his own damn military was willing to sit down and talk.
Meanwhile the military was marching to war regardless of the fate of the one on the surface. The general lady repeatedly tried to execute the humans, refused to negociate, murdered the scientist guy (her own people) and was ready to stage a coup.
The negociations were essentially between two civilians with no political clout and a head of state with no ability to control his people.

You do realise that military plotted their coup behind the Doctor's back right? That in the previous encounter between the Civilian leader and the military general the Elder Silurian had prevailed. As of the moment the Doctor was opening negotiations the Silurians were being represented by their highest authority.

Like I said before, if the Doctor somehow knew she was plotting a coup people would be pointing out the huge plot hole of why he didn't do anything about it. Of course if he didn't know anything about it people would be pointing out an apparent plot hole of why he negotiated through a leader which can't control his military when it was going to be sabotaged anyway. What do you guys expect the Doctor to have the God Emperor of Dune's prescient ability or something?

I don't remember him ever stooping to torture,

Then your memory is rather poor.

I do remember the family of blood, however most of those were imprisonment, and the mother was pretty much executed in a black hole (albeit the death will seem to drag out).

[Crossroads Inc.]

Does anyone ELSE here feel that they killed Rory off cause the Writer just didn't know what the fuck to do with him?

I mean how sad is it that the writers todays seem INCAPABLE of having more then one companion for the Doctor? Some of the old ones had THREE companions, and now we can't have two? I mean his Death was basically the Doctors fault too, dicking around with the rift, it was so pointless.

All the doctor had to do was wave his magic wand at her and Zap her gun, like he did to EVERYONE ELSE!!! but gee guess he forgot.. or maybe he jsut wanted to let Rory get shot?

And is anyone else annoyed that the Doctor with all his super magic tech can't just go "Lets get him to the TimeLord hospital inside the TARDIS, we'll have him fixed in no time!" ?

[Starglider]

Yeah, this episode sucked. Easily the worst writing of the season. The hypocrisy of the Doctor calling out that mother for killing the genocidal psychopath who ruthlessly manipulated her was sickening. It's not as if it made any difference, warlord bitch lizardwoman was determined to going to war whether her sister was alive or not.

Does anyone ELSE here feel that they killed Rory off cause the Writer just didn't know what the fuck to do with him?

I felt it was mostly for cheap pathos (cheap because it didn't fit into the story and because I expect him to be resurrected). However there was perhaps an element of inability to write anything but Doctor-Rose mark 2.

I mean how sad is it that the writers todays seem INCAPABLE of having more then one companion for the Doctor? Some of the old ones had THREE companions, and now we can't have two?

It's partly sucky writing and partly because the currently locked in Doctor + Cute Young Girl + Sexual Tension dynamic doesn't sit well with more companions.

And is anyone else annoyed that the Doctor with all his super magic tech can't just go "Lets get him to the TimeLord hospital inside the TARDIS, we'll have him fixed in no time!" ?

Yes, but that's just one of many many such problems. In a millenium of travelling around the Doctor has had the opportunity to acquire thousands of neat devices that would solve most of his problems easily, and save thousands of lives. Why doesn't the Tardis have an escape transmat and healing/resurrecting nanogenes the way Captain Jack's spaceship did? It's supposed to be immensely more advanced after all. I can forgive some of this on reasonable suspension of disbelief grounds but not the lack of basic medical facilities (of appropriate tech level).

[NecronLord]

I don't remember him ever stooping to torture,

Then your memory is rather poor.

I do remember the family of blood, however most of those were imprisonment,

Eternal torture-for-punishment is better than emotionally-inspired torture to try and get one's children back? Balls. That's torture and you know it is.

and the mother was pretty much executed in a black hole (albeit the death will seem to drag out).

Black Holes in Who aren't certain death (Omega, The Master) and it's pretty obvious that the Doctor's aim is to make them immortal so he can torture them. She's alive and trapped, just like Omega.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Yeah, this episode sucked. Easily the worst writing of the season. The hypocrisy of the Doctor calling out that mother for killing the genocidal psychopath who ruthlessly manipulated her was sickening. It's not as if it made any difference, warlord bitch lizardwoman was determined to going to war whether her sister was alive or not.

I felt it was mostly for cheap pathos (cheap because it didn't fit into the story and because I expect him to be resurrected). However there was perhaps an element of inability to write anything but Doctor-Rose mark 2.
It's partly sucky writing and partly because the currently locked in Doctor + Cute Young Girl + Sexual Tension dynamic doesn't sit well with more companions.

Yes, but that's just one of many many such problems. In a millenium of travelling around the Doctor has had the opportunity to acquire thousands of neat devices that would solve most of his problems easily, and save thousands of lives. Why doesn't the Tardis have an escape transmat and healing/resurrecting nanogenes the way Captain Jack's spaceship did? It's supposed to be immensely more advanced after all. I can forgive some of this on reasonable suspension of disbelief grounds but not the lack of basic medical facilities (of appropriate tech level).

I'd say the whole "Look how HORRIBLE that wicked mother is killing the poor Lizerdchick" was basically over compensating for episode one in which they seemed to go out of their way to make the Silurian's EVIL! it's almost like the writers actually realized they had mad them utterly incapable of feeling empathic or emotional toward, and went too far in the other direction.

And i'll agree that it really felt cheap and a bit flat killing Rory off. I say that as far as I'm concerned the writers seem incapable of Capturing the essence of what the Companions were to the Doctor. We had a fairly big rant about this in the previous thread, but the NuWho writers were all hot to "make a new paradigm" when they introduced Rose as a love interest, and now seem utterly incapable of getting past that.

ANd with the Tardis, I can't even count the amount of times the Doctor could have saved lives by just taking people into the TARDIS when things start to go bad. I was actually genuinely SHOCKED at the end when they all got into the TARDIS, I honestly thought they were going to get onto the travel pad things and race towards the surface with a countdown or something going on.

And finally just to add one more Horrific bit from this episode...

How many others simply watched slackjawed at the Rift scene?
Watching this two parter I thought maybe, just MAYBE we would make it through without the damned stupid Rift, and then we get and get what I think is currently the worst bit of NuWho dialog so far.
"Any Explosion that big is Bound to leave shrapnal!"

The Hell? Something blew up enough that it shattered the universe, and you think there are pieces left over? How they hell does that even follow? Atom bombs are really big, do they leave "Shrapnel" ? And what does he do to get it, he sticks his HAND inti it! He sticks his hand into a Rift that has been ESTABLISHED to erase things from existence! Not just touching the rift but even getting CLOSE to it can erase you! More to the point it was previously established that the Doctor, as a "complex Time Equation" coming into contact with the Rift, would immediately cause it to swallow him and close itself up.
Are the writers seriously this lazy and stupid?

[Gramzamber]

You do realise that military plotted their coup behind the Doctor's back right? That in the previous encounter between the Civilian leader and the military general the Elder Silurian had prevailed. As of the moment the Doctor was opening negotiations the Silurians were being represented by their highest authority.

Like I said before, if the Doctor somehow knew she was plotting a coup people would be pointing out the huge plot hole of why he didn't do anything about it. Of course if he didn't know anything about it people would be pointing out an apparent plot hole of why he negotiated through a leader which can't control his military when it was going to be sabotaged anyway. What do you guys expect the Doctor to have the God Emperor of Dune's prescient ability or something?

Yeah, the Doctor didn't know she was planning a coup. But it was obvious that she was an unstable element.
Still yes, as far as the Doctor knows the elder guy could speak for his people but still, Amy and what's her face certainly couldn't. Moreover when General Crazy reveals her intentions the Doctor still blames humans for ruining everything when at THAT point it's clear tha a) the elder had no control over his own military and b) General Crazy was going to start a war regardless of what the humans did.

Are the writers seriously this lazy and stupid?

As evidenced by Chibnall's previous drek and the fact that he obviously did zero research with regards to other episodes this season and probably only had a post-it note on his monitor saying "RORY DIES, DOCTOR FINDS TARDIS SHRAPNEL IN CRACK" I'd say yes, he is this lazy and stupid.

[PREDATOR490]

I'm starting to think the best thing for Doctor Who is to:
A) Trash the TARDIS
B) Destroy the Sonic Screwdriver

Maybe then the writers will be forced to spend hopefully an entire SEASON of the Doctor stuck on Earth having to get the TARDIS back and fix problems without a handwave Sonic Screwdriver.

They did this before briefly with Doctor Who and I think it would make for a good change of pace. It might also let them do a proper linear arc rather than having to endorse the Doctor's jump back and forth all the time.


As for this episode, its all been said and the result is a load of crap.

Next Week: Doctor and Karen fuck around the galaxy rather than act on the revelations thus far.

Try and find the Daleks ? - Nah
Go to the future and be ready to welcome the Silurians back into the world - Nah
Try and find out whats going to happen to the TARDIS and why certain folks are dropping 'fore shadowy comments' - Nah

[Stark]

The best thing to do is just tell the writers they can't lean on those crutches. You don't have to break stories when you just have to slap writers.

If they broke the screwdriver but didn't slap the writers they'd just write the same shit a different way.

[Starglider]

If they broke the screwdriver but didn't slap the writers they'd just write the same shit a different way.

As evidenced by, most of the fifth doctor's run, though the third doctor was the absolute worst, e.g. making a time anomaly detector out of cunningly stacked cutlery. If you want to force writers into not being lazy/stupid you have to have a producer that will ruthlessly reject their crap and make them redraft, you can't just make a few changes to the series bible.

[Revy]

On the other hand my favourite episode of this season so far has been the first one. The Doctor even loudly announces that he has to save the world in twenty minutes, with no TARDIS and no screwdriver. And then he goes and does so. I thought it was great the way he swiped Rory's phone, used it to send an electronic virus that would get the aliens attention and make them track down the phone, which he brought to Prisoner Zero so they could find and recapture him - with the added bonus that said phone had pictures of all Zero's disguises courtesy of Rory. And he had to do all that because they basically busted both of his normal tools and forced him to rely on his wits instead.

It was great, I thought. No screwdriver and no TARDIS (although I have to say he rarely uses the TARDIS to solve problems). I think it's been said before, they should have just gone with the busted screwdriver and not given him a new one. If they could write more episodes and resoloutions like the first episode (having to think creatively instead of using a magic wand or having someone else press the nuke button for him) it would have been better. I was really looking forwards to this season after watching that episode, and so far it's been a bit of a let down in that regards.

[mr friendly guy]

Yeah, the Doctor didn't know she was planning a coup. But it was obvious that she was an unstable element.

No problems there.

Still yes, as far as the Doctor knows the elder guy could speak for his people but still, Amy and what's her face certainly couldn't.

But with the Silurians able to isolate the village from the outside world these were kind of the only human which can act as negotiators. I think given the situation its was important he gets the Silurians on side first, then try for the rest of the humans. Now if one of the humans stuck just happens to be a top level negotiator and he doesn't utilise that person, I would be wondering what he was thinking. Of course I would still expect him to throw Amy into the mix purely because she could tell him what happened.

Moreover when General Crazy reveals her intentions the Doctor still blames humans for ruining everything when at THAT point it's clear tha a) the elder had no control over his own military and b) General Crazy was going to start a war regardless of what the humans did.

I thought the General came after people could already see the wrapped up body of the dead Silurian? In any event if he said soooo you Silurians had planned to attack anyway (even though its obvious NOT all of them did) that would have a) failed to get the elder Silurian on side which was essential for the resolution of the episode and b) would be quite funny considering people have attacked the Doctor for saying things which they perceive to be inflammatory to the Silurians. Even if he kept his mouth shut it wouldn't have done anything to calmed the situation down, but at least by saying what he did he tried to calm things down.

[Shroom Man 777]

It would be nice if the Doctor gives River Song his screwdriver and parts with it for, like, forever.

[Stark]

That's pretty retarded; it's a consumer product. It's impossible to write it out without being lame, and they'd just make something else lame.

It's a poor solution to a mistaken problem.