Terminator vs Predator

[Ryu]

He used a 12-guage combat shotgun, which was demonstrated in predator 2 to penetrate the skin and into the muscle, but not reach vitals. The pistol was a .45 longslide with a laser sight. It will penetrate just a little more than the shotgun, and is easier to use, more handy in close quarters and has longer range, at the expense of stopping power. He also bought an uzi submachine gun, which will have about the penetration of the shotgun buckshot, actually a little less, but is fully automatic. (Judging by the effect of the shotgun, I'd say the pistols used in earlier scenes in predator fired hollow points.)

The Uzi is a 9x19 mm submachine gun with a 400 mm barrel and higher muzzle velocity than a 9 mm pistol, therefore it will penetrate much better than buckshot and also better than the .45 . In fact even a 9 mm pistol would penetrate better than the .45 (of course assuming the same type of bullet for both), since it has a higher muzzle velocity and smaller bullet cross-section. The .357 Magnum revolver would be better still, although the AR-18 would be in the class of its own, of course.

Shit, you're right. I keep thinking "mini-uzi." My fiancee would laugh at me.

However, as far as the pistols are concerned, the typical .45, at least from what I've seen, beats the 9mm in every concievable way. I've tested it on phonebooks, pork and sheet metal, it generally beats the 9mm in any even contest, penetrating ~20% deeper into the soft materials, and doing 40% better against the hard materials.

[Ryu]

In salvation we see Terminators are very good at dealing with extreme heat

In that same movie we also see 5.56mm rounds penetrate right through their skulls at the start (albeit an already-dead termie, but it has an in-tact skull), and 7.62mm rounds killing active terminators.

Salvation also takes place in a different timeline to T1/2, the same one as T3, indicating that there may be differences in the technical specs on various terminators since it was started by an advanced model terminator right back in 2003, which came loaded in knowledge of the future and the resistance's future efforts against them, including tactics.

Actually, no, but the T600 (the terminator in question) had a thinner skull and a less-tempered endoskeleton.

The wrist blades are likely composed of the same material as the spear head the humans recover that is later described as being 'as strong as steel'.

Or maybe it's made of the alien acid-proof blades we see in the expanded universe? Maybe it's super strong, or maybe it's super weak. How could you possibly know? Do predators only know how to make one kind of metal?

As far as that, I do believe it i the same metal, but they coat it with an acid-proof chemical in order to protect it. This explains why the weapons perform EXACTLY the same in all the movies.

[Ryu]

Did Hartigan even use buckshot? Each time he pulls the trigger it looks like one large impact, so he could have been using solid slugs instead.

He was using buckshot, he was just at close range, where the shot hits all in the same place. A slug wouldn't of left such a wide hole, unless he's using exploding slugs that we would of noticed and a police officer would have no business having access to.

[Ryu]

Just to be sure : with all the sensors on their helmet wouldn't the Predator be able to :
1- know that predators are not human?
2- spot weaknesses (like joints or tube)?

Because I think they are still smart enough to use any of the tactics shown in the 4 movies. It's not like they have to kill their prey only with their own weapons. They just have to kill it one way or another.

Note : in Predator 1, the alien hunter fought already against the Terminator and lost. So why are we having that discussion?

/agrees on the note.

However, despite the Governator already killing a Predator in one instance, we still need to determine whether it'd work out the same with the other side of his personality.

As for your points, I think that for all the Predator can see and sense, the T-800 is a human. It was specifically made to fool humans into thinking it's a human. Nothing in its appearance or heat signature is likely to immediately give away its mechanical nature.

At the same time, dogs can tell the difference, so why can't a predator?

[Ryu]

A) The Predator detects it is a machine

How? In Terminator 1 it is stated that they use dogs which suggests that a T800 is perfectly human from a thermal point of view and is no longer vulnerable to magnetic mines the way Marcus was.

The Predator from the first movie was willing to stalk the spec forces guy for quite a while and that Predator may watch long enough to wonder what the fuck kind of human this is.

Who gives a fuck about Sir Not-Appearing-in-This-Film?

The Predator from the second movie jumped right in at every chance to kill someone except when he was teasing Harrington. That Predator probably goes down hard when he jumps in close tries the stabby stabby routine and bounces off the chest of the Terminator. The only time we see Terminators stabbed and impaled is by other Terminators who have precise schematics and know where the honey spot is.

That's the predator we're dealing with.

Predators from AVP1 all go down hard. These are half trained kids, some of which are dumb enough to actually relish charging into combat with acid blooded melee only foes (the aliens),

They would all be slaughtered, but they are not involved.

Lone Wold Predator from AVP2 has a better chance. He has some more unique gear like the laser traps and whatever explosive punch item he used to get out of the sewers and one expects a hell of a lot more experience.

That guy is the most badass predator we've ever scene. We can't put him up against a POS T800, it would be an insult. Him dueling the TX might give us a better fight.

[Bilbo]

That guy is the most badass predator we've ever scene. We can't put him up against a POS T800, it would be an insult. Him dueling the TX might give us a better fight.

Most badass yet he still got bitch-slapped pretty good when he chased some Xenos into the local power station. Also the T-1000 and the TX might be less of a challenge. They are certainly not going to register as human on any Predator scanner and while bullets dont do much to them I doubt that liquid metal skin of theirs will enjoy plasma bolts all that much. The T1000 and TX are cool but they are both special use weapons who lose some of their general utility.

[CSJM]

Just to be sure : with all the sensors on their helmet wouldn't the Predator be able to :
1- know that predators are not human?
2- spot weaknesses (like joints or tube)?

Because I think they are still smart enough to use any of the tactics shown in the 4 movies. It's not like they have to kill their prey only with their own weapons. They just have to kill it one way or another.

Note : in Predator 1, the alien hunter fought already against the Terminator and lost. So why are we having that discussion?

/agrees on the note.

However, despite the Governator already killing a Predator in one instance, we still need to determine whether it'd work out the same with the other side of his personality.

As for your points, I think that for all the Predator can see and sense, the T-800 is a human. It was specifically made to fool humans into thinking it's a human. Nothing in its appearance or heat signature is likely to immediately give away its mechanical nature.

At the same time, dogs can tell the difference, so why can't a predator?

How DO the dogs tell the difference, though? I don't remember the explanation. If it's high-pitched sounds or an odd smell, the Predator might be able to detect that, but without knowing what it means, he'll simply think it's a "strange human", not "relentless killing machine that looks like a human".

[Ryu]

/agrees on the note.

However, despite the Governator already killing a Predator in one instance, we still need to determine whether it'd work out the same with the other side of his personality.

As for your points, I think that for all the Predator can see and sense, the T-800 is a human. It was specifically made to fool humans into thinking it's a human. Nothing in its appearance or heat signature is likely to immediately give away its mechanical nature.

At the same time, dogs can tell the difference, so why can't a predator?

How DO the dogs tell the difference, though? I don't remember the explanation. If it's high-pitched sounds or an odd smell, the Predator might be able to detect that, but without knowing what it means, he'll simply think it's a "strange human", not "relentless killing machine that looks like a human".

Likely noise, but that's just my opinion.

[Terralthra]

Terminator turns a corner... *woosh* head falls off as Mr. Disc slams through the neck ?
Terminator is busy killing cops... *Thump* spear right through the chest ?
Predator is busy mauling the shit out of something... Terminator just walks away because it's mission is to find Sarah Connor. Not fuck around with aliens.

It took the very strong T-1000 multiple tries, at close range, and with detailed schematic files, to penetrate the T-800 with a stick. Maybe the T-800 sees the Predator raising its stupid frisbee or stick, and before the Pred can throw it the Terminator just shoots the Yautja in its honorable warrior-hunter cock?

No. It penetrated on the first stab. It took multiple tries to hit the right spot inside the torso to shut the T-800 down.

[CSJM]

And it should be noted that the T-800 took an extended beating just prior to that, and was essentially just lying there, taking hits from the metal rung. If the Predator wasn't lucky enough to get a vital spot on the first hit, whatever weapon he used would be embedded inside a very angry and very strong machine, which could immediately strike back with lethal force.

[Ryu]

And it should be noted that the T-800 took an extended beating just prior to that, and was essentially just lying there, taking hits from the metal rung. If the Predator wasn't lucky enough to get a vital spot on the first hit, whatever weapon he used would be embedded inside a very angry and very strong machine, which could immediately strike back with lethal force.

...I hate to break it to you, but machines don't get angry.

[CSJM]

Heh. Well alright, a very strong machine that gives his physical elimination a high priority and will immediately attack with maximum available force. To any outside observer, it would be "angry".

[Ryu]

Heh. Well alright, a very strong machine that gives his physical elimination a high priority and will immediately attack with maximum available force. To any outside observer, it would be "angry".

No, it would appear serious. Angry would come across if the machine was acting in an irrational manner, and there is no reason for it to even be capable of such. Nevertheless, let's stop playing semantics before it envelops the entire page like it did on my first thread.

[PREDATOR490]

Terminator vs T-1000

1:30

The T-1000 penetrates on the first strike, prys and then finishes on the second. You can argue that the T-1000 has superior schematics and strength to pull it off which the Predator wont have but ultimately it is irrelevant. Predator spears tend to vary in the design to the point some have lots of blades at the tip which would make trying to pierce like that a bit awkward.

I believe the P2 spear was more conventional as a spear but if we are going with the P2 dumbass then... well I see the Terminator winning regardless. P2 was rather gung-ho for melee. Although I find it likely that P2 will strike during the Police scene because it liked jumping into public / large body count areas.
In which case, loads of cops, Terminator, Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor all in the same building...

If the Predator loses and activates it's nuke. Fairly high chance Connor goes with it. Although I can see Reese getting mauled by the Predator if he attempts to take it on. Sure, the Predator might do shit against a T but a barely armed Reese + Sarah Connor might just meet the threshold for 'valid target'.
In which case, Terminator just has to stand there and watch to complete it's objective and then shutdown. Unless of course there is a 'In case of Aliens' directive in there.

[NecronLord]

Grif and Shroom. I have removed your links to suicide pictures. While we have generally free expression, I would ask that you please do so by PM.

A spoiler tag, for various reasons, is certainly insufficient for hiding such materials, not least that the particular version we have on here preloads the image onto people's computers anyway (AFAIK) which would be a potential problem for people using the forum from public computers when they're using it to access 'shotgun suicide pictures' unintentionally.

Yes, I know there's no specific rule against such a thing, but I would personally consider it potentially offensive (and more importantly, potentially getting people into trouble) on the same level as explicit pornography.

[NecronLord]

Not true. The T850 is more resistant to plasma weaponry than the T800,

We don't really know that.

so it is plausible that a single shot would be enough to destroy a T-800. However, the increase wasn't atronomical, all they did was add coltan to the titanium-tungsten chassis, so it might still take a second shot on the weaker chassis.

That was between T-600 and T-888 at some point. We don't know which, though presumably 'hyper-alloy' of a T-800 includes coltan. Of course, with multiple timelines it's uncertain (a Salvation 600 is very different from a SCC one)

This is true, and that is both an order of magnitude smaller than the T-X plasma cannon and on the same order of magnitude of the predator's shoulder cannon. This should mean that the weapon will do a similar amount of damage to the terminator, which means it likely won't kill without multiple shots and hitting vital areas.

I don't know about that. A plasma rifle supposedly kills T-800s easily.

[Thanas]

No, there is no evidence for T-800 including Coltan. So far, the only ones who do so and are confirmed as such are the T-888s and Cameron's model.

[NecronLord]

No, there is no evidence for T-800 including Coltan. So far, the only ones who do so and are confirmed as such are the T-888s and Cameron's model.

I've seen it cited various places as being in T-800s according to 'Terminator Salvation'. I'd have to actually watch the film to work out where though.

[PREDATOR490]

I'm willing to buy a plasma caster wont fry a T on the spot but I'm curious to know how much damage a headshot would actually inflict. Nevermind MULTIPLE headshots if the Predator decides to go nuts.

In the case of AVP2, against a single opponent I would imagine both Plasmacasters would double tap a T and continue to do so until disabled or the Predator decides to stop. Although, I seem to recall Predator 2 had a wrist mounted weapon of some kind that looked like a plasma gun. Additionally, the Predator can apparantly auto-target the cannon without directly looking at the target which P2 demonstrates.

The other two weapons P2 demonstrated was that net gun - Probably no use against a Terminator

Additionally we have the spear gun which fires those 'strong as steel' projectiles - Probably no use against a Terminator because that kind of attack is specifically what they are designed to take.

Wont a headshot to a T cause damage to it's eyes and thus potentially eliminate the ability to use other vision modes to see through Pred cloak ?
In the unlikely even a Predator hit the chest of a T-800, does it have the potential to have the same effect the T-X had of disabling the core and making the T explode ?

[Thanas]

No, there is no evidence for T-800 including Coltan. So far, the only ones who do so and are confirmed as such are the T-888s and Cameron's model.

I've seen it cited various places as being in T-800s according to 'Terminator Salvation'. I'd have to actually watch the film to work out where though.

Yeah, but this is - as one of the SCC writers has stated - something Salvation picked up from the show. Given that the terminators of Salvation are quite unlike those that are talked of by Kyle Reese in T1 (just look at his description of the T-600 and how it is shown in Salvation) and since SCC follows T2 - I would not want to use any Salvation stuff when talking about the original T1 Terminator, because that is the unaltered timeline, not the Salvation one.

[NecronLord]

Validity of evidence from variant timelines in a Terminator thread? *Takes a shot*

Yeah, but this is - as one of the SCC writers has stated - something Salvation picked up from the show. Given that the terminators of Salvation are quite unlike those that are talked of by Kyle Reese in T1 (just look at his description of the T-600 and how it is shown in Salvation) and since SCC follows T2 - I would not want to use any Salvation stuff when talking about the original T1 Terminator, because that is the unaltered timeline, not the Salvation one.

And SCC can go the same way. If you're dismissing evidence in favour of timeline exclusivity, then only (at best) the Cameron films can stay.

There's no 'coltan' anywhere in the original film. Just generic 'hyper-alloy.'

[Thanas]

And SCC can go the same way. If you're dismissing evidence in favour of timeline exclusivity, then only (at best) the Cameron films can stay.

Actually, SCC can't, because we already see what happens there in the future.

[NecronLord]

And SCC can go the same way. If you're dismissing evidence in favour of timeline exclusivity, then only (at best) the Cameron films can stay.

Actually, SCC can't, because we already see what happens there in the future.

Err. SCC is not valid when discussing the original film. SCC is very definately not the original film timeline. Witness if you will, the time of judgement day.

[Thanas]

And SCC can go the same way. If you're dismissing evidence in favour of timeline exclusivity, then only (at best) the Cameron films can stay.

Actually, SCC can't, because we already see what happens there in the future.

Err. SCC is not valid when discussing the original film. SCC is very definately not the original film timeline. Witness if you will, the time of judgement day.

Not disputing that. Just pointing out that there is no proof for Coltan being used in the original T1 timeline and that the argument of using T4 to do so is not really a good one.

[NecronLord]

I honestly don't see the point anyway. Looking at the SCC quote, it doesn't in any way imply that a triple-eight has better survival against heat than an 800, but better than a 600.