TF3 Thread (Spoilers allowed, no tags)

[Kojiro]

Saw it again at my girlfriend's insistance (in 3D). I will admit the 3D is really well done at least. I continue to be annoyed at the small changes Bay seems to have made for no reason I can determine (I would have loved Ironhide to say Decepti-punks instead of Decepticon punks as he does). Knowing how it ends, watching Starscream job to Sam was even more painful and unbelieveable- just what the hell was Starscream trying to accomplish with all that jumping about?

I still struggle with the overwhelming ease the military started taking out 'cons, especially the eye shots. A single hit would be impressive (and oddly most useful against Shockwave) but blinding them is just implausible. It also raises the question of just how they see when not in robot mode- clearly there's some alternate vision mode not reliant on bright red/blue eye like sensors. Given Optimus' speech at the start, about being 'outnumbered and out gunned' you have to wonder what has changed, because nine Autobots went some 200+ Decepticons and came away with a single casualty. This is without their former, super hardcore leader (who now fights for the Decepticons) or weapons specialist.

I also couldn't help but notice that Epps points out the 'target' pylon at least twice, pointing at it and giving us a clear view of it- what stopped them from firing at it from right there? It looked about 250-300m away (yay for 3D!). For a guided missile that is surely within range? Nor does Prime, with his 'flight tech' ever attempt a run at this oh so important target (has he forgotten just how easy the last films target was?).

Another thing that should have been blindingly obvious to Bay by now- Transformers with colour, who are not bare metal, are far easier to identify and track and follow. And how I loathe the human tech weapons. 'This is a highly advanced alien warrior robot!' 'No it isn't, it's a NASCAR with a bunch of .30 cals!' Seriously, Optimus' gun ejects big brass casings now (not to mention is pump action)? The only weapons that ever do anything are either a)melee attacks b)energy weapons.

I really hope Hasbro are greedy enough to try a reboot in the not too distant future. I'd still love to see a good TF movie. So many things could be so easily improved, like having the weapons resemble human ones (where copied) but fire god damn lasers.

[neoolong]

I really hope Hasbro are greedy enough to try a reboot in the not too distant future. I'd still love to see a good TF movie. So many things could be so easily improved, like having the weapons resemble human ones (where copied) but fire god damn lasers.

The movie's made $663M in the box office, which makes it a success. Why would they reboot the franchise considering that they already have the existing models for the transformers? If anything, and has been rumored already, they'd likely just hand it off to another team and center more adventures with new humans as the focal point.

[Kojiro]

Er, like I said, greed? Unless you rule out the idea that they can make even more money from a reboot it's always an option, just like a sequel. I mean it's not like they're shy about rebooting the Transformers franchise or multiple versions (or the corresponding toys that go with them).

[Zablorg]

Rebooting a franchise that consists of a cartoon and some box art is far easier than rebooting the film franchise. The film franchise already has an established setting, characters, aesthetic, as well as an existing audience. There wouldn't be much point in a reboot right now if they have the option of continuing it as it stands.

[neoolong]

Exactly. Especially if they have to redesign everything.

I wonder if Josh Duhamel is chomping at the bit to finally get to headline this thing. And we need more Tyrese.

[Anguirus]

There was maybe 4 minutes of footage I really liked. Yes, TF2 was silly, but I enjoyed that more than this pile.

Pray tell, why is that?

[PeZook]

Saw it yesterday. It was much better than 3, though Bay really, really needed to edit better. For example, cutting out Sam's parents entirely would've done...nothing whatsoever to the plot, so they should've been axed. Some of the huge robot fights managed to be boring, which is a terrible crime against cinema.

I also hated the quick jab on how Autobots "help humans solve their conflicts so that humans do not hurt themselves". Then we cut to some mideast country's (cough*Iran*cough) military facility being fucked up by transformers, because helping America = helping humanity

Then there was the fact the US deployed alien robot detectors everywhere save for a major defence/space contractor. Yeah, that was smart and totally believebale. Also the detectors were totally useless for anything since the evil decepticon killteam could just rampage on a DC freeway completely unchallenged (well, save for the self-defence of the people they were attempting to kill)

Otherwise...I might've forgotten stuff, but the final battle did seem to drag a bit and was incoherent towards the end there, Sentinel Prime's betrayal was exciting and shocking until he turned into a complete douchebag by the end, the entire "RAR we need slaves to rebuild our totally mechanized world full of alien technology no human can understand!" plot was absurd...

...and the movie had Buzz Aldrin play himself I wonder how they got him to come aboard with all the moon landing conspiracy sillyness.

[andrewgpaul]

At least this silly moon conspiracy actually had them getting there.

Anguirius mentioned it, but can someone explain how Sam tipped Optimus Prime off that "something was up"? I clearly wasn't paying attention.

[PeZook]

At least this silly moon conspiracy actually had them getting there.

One subset of the lunar landing conspiracy has the photos being faked because the flights happened but the SAW SOMETHING THERE, actually

Anguirius mentioned it, but can someone explain how Sam tipped Optimus Prime off that "something was up"? I clearly wasn't paying attention.

I was surprised nobody saw anything was up when Sam rolled across a table for no discernable reason whatsoever.

Humans are just dumb, it would seem. It's not like creepy alienoid robots hadn't tried sneaky infiltrations before, right?

[wautd]

So, as someone who loved TF1 (8/10) but hated TF2 (3/10), will I like TF3?

Having seen it last night, I'd give it a 5/10. Overall amusing, but quite a messy story, too many useless human characters and when it annoyed me, it annoyed the hell out of me (mostly due to the main female characters). I just couldn't care too much about what was going on (it was missing TF1's Spielbergian wonder like someone mentioned).

Some general blurbs:

The intro on Cybertron: WOW. I need to see that back in slow motion.

I missed Decepticons transforming. In TF1 they were cool vehicles like helicopters, tanks, etc..., but in TF3 they're pretty much all generic a grey robots. Hell, we don't even see Shockwave transforming into something.

Optimus handing out a ton a ass-woopin'. He may be noble and heroic, it doesn't stop him for being badass. Speaking of badasses, why was Megatron turned into a bitch? He was also seriously underused, unfortunately.

The city in ruins was nicely done. Good to see Decepticons taking out their gloves and becoming menacing again (unlike in TF2).

The female characters of this movie. Ugh.... It's saying much about the movie when Sam's mom turned out to be the most likeable of the bunch. Sam's new girlfriend was completely useless and that ex-CIA bitch was such an annoyingly irrational, stupid and incompetent cunt for no clear reason other than that the writers decided they needed an annoyingly irrational, stupid and incompetent cunt as a government official. I dare you name one useful female character in this movie. Either they were carrying around files for the ex-CIA bitch or they were there to look pretty (because based on this movie, only photo models get hired for an office job).

John Malkovich. Whyyyy.... I just saw Red before I went seeing TF3, and there he plays a crazy person. Turns out, he's crazy in TF3 as well (and a completely useless character as well. If it was meant that his character need to add comedy relief, it failed).
I did like the german butler though.

The 3D was pretty good. Not as good in Avatar, but as 3D movies go it was probably the second best I've seen so far. I still prefer 2D though, but the choice was already made for me.

Basically, after a long, awesome fight between Sentinel and Optimus, Sentinel gains the upper hand and cuts off one of Optimus arms, then pins his other one with his blades. Carly rouses Megatron to fight Sentinel, appealing to his baser instincts and his future as Sentinel's bitch - and Megatron shoots the shit out of Sentinel, saving Optimus' life. No ifs, ands, or buts. Then, Megatron asks Optimus for a truce and says "after all, what are you, without me?" - Optimus says "lets find out" and shoves his fucking axe into Megatron's head, and tears it off. killing him.

Yeah... I missed all that. I had to take a leak so badly, but the action in the end just never stopped. I sneaked out when things were quiet for while and when I came back, Cybertron was FUBAR and Optimus was missing an arm

Barricade: HE'S IN THE FUCKING MOTHERFUCKING MOVIE. He's not a simple character model use, he is clearly acting as a lieutenant to Soundwave, and later Shockwave. He even carries on his long tradition of somehow avoiding onscreen death (though he's at least horribly maimed). And he EVEN gets a little moment of manhandling Bumblebee. If only a line of Jess Harnell dialogue had slipped in...would have made us miss Ironhide less.

Yup, saw him too and found it awesome to see him back. Speaking of vanishing robots, what happened to the black mercedes autobot that attacked that Middle Eastern nuclear base?

And I'm repeating myself but I cannot stress this enough:

But holy fuck, I am super sick of the 'people in charge being stupid dicks' theme that's running through all three of these films, with this one being the worst in that regard.

I hear that!

[Anguirus]

Anguirius mentioned it, but can someone explain how Sam tipped Optimus Prime off that "something was up"? I clearly wasn't paying attention.

I might have caught it because it was in the novel, but I think it was reasonably clear anyway.

Sam's talking to Optimus and they are saying their good-byes to each other, then suddenly Sam blurts out, "I need to know how you're going to fight back. You can trust me, NO OTHER HUMAN WILL KNOW." Then Optimus gives the camera this really suspicious expression before continuing on with the conversation.

Yup, saw him too and found it awesome to see him back. Speaking of vanishing robots, what happened to the black mercedes autobot that attacked that Middle Eastern nuclear base?

He was blue. Also he was Que (Wheeljack). Don't blame you for missing it though, I don't think he ever transforms on screen.

[andrewgpaul]

Anguirius mentioned it, but can someone explain how Sam tipped Optimus Prime off that "something was up"? I clearly wasn't paying attention.

I might have caught it because it was in the novel, but I think it was reasonably clear anyway.

Sam's talking to Optimus and they are saying their good-byes to each other, then suddenly Sam blurts out, "I need to know how you're going to fight back. You can trust me, NO OTHER HUMAN WILL KNOW." Then Optimus gives the camera this really suspicious expression before continuing on with the conversation.

Ah, yes, I remember now. I did think at the time that was suspiciously specific wording.

[Jim Raynor]

I just saw this movie today. I liked the first two movies, ROTF less so. I had heard that TF3 was better than the last movie. The critics still hated it but the audience response in the form of box office and CinemaScore polling (a solid "A" grade, up from the "B+" of the last movie) raised my hopes. But after seeing this movie, I'd have to say that I was disappointed. I'll give it a 5/10.

This is a more mature movie than TF2. It's not the model of sophistication, but it wasn't as actively stupid and goofy as the last film (the removal of the Twins being a major factor). I was actually suprised at how moderately paced and dialogue-heavy the first half of the movie was. TF3 doesn't lack the action, but a lot of its action was concentrated in one huge battle in the third act. The autobots were kept offscreen for much of the movie. A lot of the movie focused on Sam's job hunt, relationship, and conspiracy solving with other human characters.

I didn't miss Megan Fox at all. The new girl, a lingerie model who has taken a lot of criticism for her acting, actually did a better job than Fox did IMO. I liked how she wasn't just giving Sam a hard time for no reason, but actually had a backstory involving a dead military brother to explain her perspective.

But while TF3 didn't stoop to the lows of TF2, I didn't think that its highs weren't as great either. The movie just didn't have the same level of fun and humor that the first two movies did. Optimus didn't claim a triumphant victory like he did in TF2, but got screwed up and basically won on luck and sneak attacks as some have pointed out in this thread.

I see some people debating whether or not the military was written stupidly in this movie. I'm going to have to agree with those who think that it was. The power levels of the various factions, and the US Military's (lack of) response really bugged me. I'm not just speaking from the perspective of a geek who likes reading about military tech. I'm talking about this movie staying consistent with what had been established in the first two movies.

In the first two movies, the Decepticons operated somewhat like an underground terrorist cell. They occasionally made good showings against military forces, but they mostly kept things under wraps while they tried to acquire or activate all-powerful WMDs. In the first movie it was the All Spark, and in the second movie it was that weapon inside the pyramid that could black out the sun. When the military showed up to fight, they took a beating and were driven into hiding.

And that portrayal was carried on in this movie as well, for a while. The Decepticons had made themselves so scarce since their defeat in TF2 that the Autobots even turned their attention toward human vs. human conflicts. Such as when they destroyed that nuclear facility owned by an obvious proxy for Iran. Megatron was shown as so wounded and broken down that he had made camp in the African plains with just a couple other Decepticons, and a bunch of hatchlings. All of a sudden a Decepticon space fleet spawns out of the moon, including a floating battleship and other fliers who can guarantee air superiority against the USAF? WTF?

TF1 and TF2 showed hasty military actions to Decepticon attacks that were relatively small in scale. Yet TF2 had a carrier strike group, a destroyer specially-modified with a long-range rail gun, a Marine amphibious force, US Army tanks, Air Force F-16s and F-22s, and a B-1 bomber all coming in to blow crap up in a small Egyptian town. In TF3, the Decepticons conquered the third largest city in the US and set up camp out in the open. Almost NONE of the same assets were sent in to save Chicago. Instead, military sent in a few Ospreys to drop in a small commando team. Really?

And yeah, there was a throwaway line about how their long-range bombers had been shot down on the way in. And I think a couple of low-flying F-22s were shown being destroyed as Sam arrived at the city. Putting aside the fact that fighter aircraft capabilities have been poorly portrayed throughout all three movies (F-22s sure as hell would not go in low to be destroyed at point blank range), the movie's excuses for the lack of air support were still paltry. Because if bombers and supersonic fighters can't get through the Decepticons' air defenses...then how did a few unescorted Ospreys do it?

A few seconds after the GPS coordinates for the control pillar were located, I thought "why aren't they burying that thing under a crapload of Tomahawks?" Which would've been a total nitpick since the average viewer doesn't give a crap about proper military tech, and the main characters should be doing the heavy lifting anyway for plot reasons. They could've gotten away with not addressing that question at all, which they did for quite a while. Only half way through the battle, they suddenly started mentioning Tomahawk cruise missiles. And more than one update on the time until their arrival was given. And when the Tomahawks finally came, it was a bare few of them which just crashed into Decepticon fliers. If the Decepticons had purposely blocked those missiles it would've been one thing, but I don't remember if that point was made clear in the movie. If those Tomahawks came in just to destroy a few individual Decepticons, then the inaccurate stupidity is even greater. The whole thing turned out to be pointless and irrelevant anyway.

I just don't get the lack of military eye candy in this movie. I realize most people probably don't even care, but the previous movies did play up that aspect. The movies were regarded as effective recruiting tools for the actual military, and showcased a variety of cool aircraft and weaponry. From a filmmaking perspective, it kept the military from looking stupid and useless, and provided a good excuse to blow lots of things up. So it really seems odd that the good guys brought so little to the fight in TF3, while the Decepticons showed up with their biggest force in the entire trilogy.

[Crown]

I would love to say that I was bored during this move, but that would be too strong a word to describe the full body and mind numbness I experienced during those two and a half hours of blah. On the screen was a smorgasbord of giant robots kicking the shit out of each other and I was uninterested. I reached down and gave my balls a quick squeeze just to reassure myself that I was still a dude, and finding them sill there I just have to conclude that it was the film's heretofore unprecedented fail that was inducing my protocomatose state of complete sensory detachment.

0/whatever fucking scale you want

[Manus Celer Dei]

The criticisms regarding Optimus straight-up executing Megatron are pretty valid, but I think it's pretty important to remember that Megatron was asking for a truce like three minutes after shooting the last autobot he made a deal with in the back! It was still crazy out of character for Optimus but I can kinda see why he'd be "Who the fuck do you think you are kidding?"

Still, I was hoping for a "You, who are without mercy, now plead for it?" line. OH WELL.

Oh, and a fun bit of trivia: Hasbro and Bay apparently had some disagreement over names of certain characters that made it all the way into the credits. The transformers' names in the VA credits include "Que/Wheeljack" and "Dino/Mirage." According to Bay's webmaster, Ferrari actually demanded the right to name the character that was considered Mirage at first, while Que was more of a Bay decision. I think Que is pretty obviously supposed to be Wheeljack, though he's a bit innocent and timid for the part. Dino/Mirage, I really wanted it to be Mirage at first but it hardly matters as he does little, and certainly no "Mirage" type things.

IIRC the Dino thing was because he's a Ferrari in the movie, and Mattel have exclusive rights to Ferrari toys so they didn't want him named after a Hasbro toy. Or something.