Space Marine Battles series thread

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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Space Marine Battles series thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

The 'latest' SMB update, Death of Antagonis. Death of Antagonis is a rather good novel, by Space MArine Battles standards, and better than alot of others I've read IMHO. It's much more than simple SPACE MARINES KILL LOTS SO THEY ARE GOOD type of story. You have genuinely heroic characters (Even if they are Space Marines) with an interesting and noble philsophy shaped by who they are, and actually exemplify a great 'defender of humanity' image not seen this side of an Uriel Ventris novel. What's more, that philosophy gets tested as acts and sacrifices are asked of these heroes which run contrary to those beliefs, and the conflict forces them to reconcile the things they do with what they are, regardless of the changes that result. What's more they have some interesting villains (or at least an interesting villain spawning from events in past fluff). There's conflict and betrayal and sacrifice and hope, all of which go into making a very good 40K story (at leats for me.)

The funny thing too, is, that the title of the novel is a bit misleading. Antagonis only plays a role early on in the story. RAther, it refers, I think, to the fact that the events on Antagonis (SPOILER!) become such a driving force for the rest of the events in the story- they drive and shape the individual characters we meet - space Marine and non - in different ways.

Page 8-9
And on the day the Wars of Lamentation began in the Phlagia system, on the planet Antagonis...
..
But now, on the very day that the dig site seemed bound to validate his theories, Tennesyn was having to rush off back to Aighe Mortis in the neighbouring Camargus system. Another of his best researchers was being conscripted into the Imperial Guard. It was the third time in a week.
Having to travel to another system, with the implication its a few days or less round trip. Quite probably less than a day round trip (evidence latter suggests this.)



Page 9
. Not at all seeing what waited in the wings, Tennesyn took his leave, and started down the road where the Dragon and the Gorgon waited.
In a week, a world can fall.
It takes a week from the guy's arrival on planet for the planet to fall.



Page 10
And here, in the sealed basement of the palace, hiding from the walking corpses that, as far as Toharan could tell, comprised the rest of the city of Lecorb’s population of twelve million..
Population of a Imperial city, non Hive.


Page 10
Squad Pythios of the Black Dragons Second Company had gone in, working with the Fourth and 25th Companies of the Imperial Guard’s Mortisian Regiment.
..
Between his squad and the thirty thousand Mortisians...
Two 'companies' comprising 30,000 men. IT could be that this is a mistake and it actually means 'regiment' but they rather consistetly use 'companies. in this context. Likewise they do mention 'regiments' as well, which may suggest the regiments are far larger. If we figure 15,000 men per company at least, and 4-6 companies per regiment, that would be between 60-90 thousand troops per regiment. Rather large by infantry standards. :D



Page 12
A wall of stubber and las-fire met the onrushing dead..
...
....the massed power of the Imperial Guard unleashed a horizontal rain of projectile and las-fire. T
Mortisians use laser and stub weaponry.



Page 14
Toharan paused in his run to jump up on the lead vehicle, a Hellhound. Colonel Burston Kervold, heading the joint command of the Fourth and 25th companies, rode standing in the roof hatch, magnoculars around his neck.
The Mortisians have some vehicles as well. At least one Hellhound, and several chimeras (we learn.) Also note again reference to Mortisian 'companies.'



Page 17
Two Chimeras ran into a stream of dead who threw themselves under the APCs’ treads. The corpses piled higher, more and more sucked in beneath the vehicles, blood and bone-shrapnel spraying. Within seconds, the Chimeras had sunk into a quagmire of gore metres deep.
As I noted, the Mortisian regiments are at least partly mechanised and have some armour. If they are fully mechanised, that would make them one of the biggest mechanised regiments I've known of. Considering they come from a hive world, this is not impossible.
Also literally drowning a chimera in dead bodies and gore to stop it.



Page 20
On the line fighting to hold back the tide, a conscript flipped backwards and hit the ground hard and dead. His forehead was a scorched crater. He’d been hit with a las-round.
Las bolt blows a crater in the forehead. If we assume its roughly as 'wide' as a forehead, its at least 5-6 cm across, but probably not much more than 8 cm diameter. At the bare minimum, digging a 2-3 cm diameter crater in a single pulse, nevermind punching through bone, dictates at least single digit kj, but more likely with a bigger 'crater' reaching deeper (multiple pulses) would be at least 15-20 kj. By scorching if we figure somewhere between 2-5 cm diameter at least, it would at least be single digit kj (3-10 kj maybe, depending on exact diamaeter and burn severity) but it also doesn't rule out double digits.
The knockdown effect is interesting, but as noted it may not be due to sheer momentum (or not just that, but explosive vaporization is possible.) The PEP as I've noted in the past can inflict a pain/knockdown effect.



Page 29
Handfuls of civilians ran in howling clusters, desperation giving their sprints a speed that was almost that of the Black Dragons jog.
Space marines jog at speeds that would be a fast sprint in normal humans (5-6 m/s perhaps at least? Probably less than 10 m/s though.)



Page 32-33
Only the Grey Knights were supposed to know that there was even such a thing as the Ordo Malleus. He tried to keep his expression neutral.
..
"Don’t insult my intelligence, inquisitor. If you think we haven’t had dealings with your ordo before, then you are too naïve to be much good at your allotted task"
The Malleus and Grey Knights are supposed to be a 'secret', but like all things in 40K secrecy is variable. Its possible to be 'officially' a secret, and yet still be something unoffiically known, rumoured, etc. Certainly the fact people who work with the Grey Knights or Malleus would be aware of them, and might even talk (This seems to be one reason explaining why people who had dealings with Chaos or the Inquisition was purged, after all..)



Page 35-36
..he guessed that the colonel was asking about the two companies of Mortisian infantry.
..
He thought about the loss of thirty thousand men, and his heart sank. He felt sorry for Dysfield. The man’s entire command, with the exception of the contingent in Lexica, had been wiped out..
Again, 2 companies, and 30,000 men total, and this is the majority of the forces deployed to Antagonis. They're either mistaking regiment for company, or they onyl dispatched part of a regiment to garrison the planet. Again it also implies quite large numbers for Mortisian regiments.


Page 36-37
Yet when the Chapter (reluctantly) submitted its tithe of genetic material, the samples were always of a purity beyond reproach. They were too good to be true, as suspicious in their own way as the bone-blades.
But the evidence was circumstantial, at best. The Dragons were careful, and had never given the Inquisition proper cause or opportunity to put them to the question. They were also very good at keeping their distance
..
Though he didn’t have any formal proof, he could see how the gene tithe passed the examinations. Toharan showed no sign of mutation at all. Underneath a mane of blond hair, his forehead was unblemished by disfiguring crest. His skin tone was lighter than that of the other Dragons Lettinger had seen. The norm was dark, lending credence to the theory that the Dragons were debased derivations of the Salamanders. But Toharan’s flesh had a glow that was almost human. All the Dragons would have to do to satisfy the tithing demands would be to send in material drawn from Toharan and others like him. He was, Lettinger realised, a very special kind of mutant: the aberrantly pure-born in a world of monsters.
Comment about the suspicion surrounding the tithe of the Black Dragons, and the implied explanation for how they pull it off. Not all the Dragons demonstate mutations (or at least, obvious ones.)


Page 37
More than three metres tall, Volos loomed over every other living being in the courtyard. He was so gigantic that he wore custom-made armour and used an oversized jump pack for lift.
3 metre tall Space MArines are considered giants, at least among the Black Dragons. We know that its not unheard of for them to reach that heights (although usually thats with the aid of Terminator armour) but this does seem to put it inot a context. 3 metres is gigantic (akin to 7-8 m in a human), and we might figure 2.5 metres height are 'tall' or 'very tall'. 2 metres (~7 feet) would thus be 'average'.)


Page 40
Unlike Antagonis, Aighe Mortis was a dying star of a hive world. The civilization on this planet was like a sun going red and huge before its final collapse. It had swollen to a final, absolute extremity of population density. The growth was so unsustainable that it could only be the precursor to a terminal, lights-out plunge into the wreckage of barbarism. The shallow oceans had long ago been drained and evaporated to make way for more and more ground-swallowing, sky-shrouding manufactoria. But the memory of seas lingered in the atmosphere, turning the faecal-brown and bile-yellow air into a thick sludge that sat in the lungs like pneumonic sputum. To breathe on Aighe Mortis was to drown slowly.
Seems to be one of those 'old' hives like Necromunda, except it lacks the quality of industry and technological sophistication fo that planet. Its in many ways like a 'feral' hive world... things have clearly degenerated and the places is in decline, and while plenty of tech exists (based on the fact the society still exists in such numbers) the equilibrium is clearly quite precious and catastrophe is never far away.
I also hve to wonder what keeps the oceans perpetually evaporated like that. The only thing I can think of, aside from deliberate chemical mumbo-jumbo (whcih would probably have to be maintained, and that's unlikely in this condition') is that the planet radiates so much heat from its industry and population and living and such, that the oceans are kept in a state of perpetual evaporation. The problem with that idea, howver, is that it would almost certainyl require at least the same amount of energy as a mass extinction event (per second) to maintain, and probably more. And noone could technically 'survive' that enviroment to drown on the atmosphere. This does assume the oceans are something like Terra's, but even 1% of Terra's oceans would still be a shitload of energy (and perhaps problematic.) so if that were the case the oceans have to be quite small.
The other itneresting detail is the implications with regard to surface area and population density. They're at the 'limits' of endurable population density (or at least what they can tolerate). Problem is, we don't quite know how much of the surface might be 'inhabited' Its implied that the bulk (at least 2/3) are for manufactoria, - a fact which suggests the entire planet is covered in artifical construction, I might add - so it probably means a third or less is inhabitable. IF we figure at 10% of an earthlike planet's 'land area' ignoring oceans (150 million sq km, works out to 15 million) and assume population density is close to the highest known population density on Earth(by here) we get 10-30 thousand per sq km which works out to between 150 and 450 billion. This is more in line iwth 'typical' hive world estimates, and it suffices as a lower limit but the implication that the populations are considerably greater. If we figure 150 million sq km at 10-30 thousand per sq km you get between 1.5 and 4.5 trillion. If we assume the entire surface was covered by habitation at 30,000 per sq km density, we get 15 trillion. That should suffice as an approximate, order of magnitude' estimate - probable trillions or tens of trillions.



Page 40-41
The closest thing the world had known to a golden era was in the Age of Apostasy, when its mineral resources had been plenty, and there had been enough space on the surface that the population centres could still boast that they were distinct cities. But the millennia passed, the cities merged into a single disease, and the mineral seams were exhausted. Misery and deprivation were a tide that rose but never ebbed. The last of the wealthy families fled early in M41. When the mining concerns were taken over by desperate, rioting workers, off-world owners decided it was cheaper to cut their losses than face the expense and effort of reclaiming valueless property.
Something between a cooperative and a criminal anarchy had risen on Aighe Mortis, giving just enough obeisance to Imperial administrative bodies to achieve a state of mutual tolerance. The mines had tunnelled deeper into the earth, leaving exhausted regions to be remade as sunless habs, and enough new seams were found to jolt the planet’s economy into a semi-functioning state of undeath. By then, the population was such that almost all of Aighe Mortis’s resources were consumed by local needs for material and energy.
Age of Apostasy was some 5000 years ago, and now they had mostly tapped out their resources, although in recent times they seem to have uncovered some (minimal) resources by digging deeper. If we figure they tapped out at least 2-5% of the resources in teh crust, we might figure 15-20% (ignoring all the silicon) of the crust may be usualbe (mostly iron and aluminum, but also some other materials.) The Crust masses some 1.5e23 kg, and if 5% of that was consumed (equal to 1-2 km depth of mining, assuming even distribution) would be roughly 1e21-e22 kg over that 5000 year period (2e17-2e18 kg annually.) Even if only 1% of that is the actual value its ludicrously high, we're talking hunderds of billions or possibly trillions of tonnes of material expended anually.
Anyhow, this also reflects that worlds ma be 'abandoned' or ignored by the Imperium (or their internal matters will) if they have nothing to offer, and the Imperium will deal with any planetary authority so long as they meet the Imperium's demands.
Also reflects an Asimov-EArthlike need to balance material use and energy for survial - recycling and efficieicny are bywords on a Hive world.



Page 41
...Aighe Mortis kept itself going by exporting two things. One was small arms, churned out in cut-rate but reliable form in the uncountable billions. The other was men. Human existence here was red in tooth and claw. Vicious natural selection was encouraged by gangs that recognised a valuable resource when they saw it, and a steady stream of Guardsmen and mercenaries swarmed from the hive into the rest of the Imperium
Mortis supports itself pretty much like any hive world, massive industry and massive conscription/colonization because it has more people than it needs, producing 'billions' of low quality (but reliable) weapons in the billions.
What's more, its strongly suggested that the birth rate of the world cannot come close to matching the conscription rates (or the tolerated ones) Considering Earth's birth rates go into the tens of million if not a hundred million or more (per year), that should tell you something about the conscription rate (and can explain the huge size implied of Mortisian regiments.) IT would be consistent with Armageddon's and Necromunda's known tithe rates, at least.



Page 44-45
"What cave have you been living in?"
..
"I’ve spent the last week shuttling from office to office, napping in waiting rooms. I don’t even know what day it is!"
...
"We’ve had to double the tithe" Bisset explained. "And it’s being resisted. But Sarcannis and Perethea are a mess, and between that and the situation on Antagonis –"
The guy has been here a week, and as we noted before the problems on Antagonis would start wtihin a week (before he left) Again indicative of him taking far less than a day to arrive at Mortis. Assuming less than 24 hours to arrive, and a ~5-15 LY distance we get at least 1800-5500c travel time. By inter-sector travel that's prtty damn quick (comapred to the hundres to low thousands of Ravenor and Eisenhorn, at least.)



Page 46
He had been a loyal slave of the Emperor, then, and a participant in the project that had led to the founding of the Exorcists. That Adeptus Astartes Chapter was legendary for its incorruptibility. Rumour said that each had a daemon bound within his flesh as part of their initiation, making them immune to any further possession. Nessun had no quarrel with the accuracy of the legend, but he would, if asked, add a small amendment. The immune were those who had been successfully initiated. There had been failures. Many, during the work leading up to the founding. So many that illumination had descended upon Nessun. The failure, he had realised, lay not with the corrupted Space Marines, but in the goal itself. Those newly born daemonic warriors were the truth of the universe.
...
He had gathered his sons to him, and baptised them the Swords of Epiphany.
discussion of the Experiments to create the Exorcists chapter. It echoes the fluff pertaining to and the speculation/rumours about the Illuminati, so I suppose it could argue they were at least genuinely possible. Anyhow, the 'failures' of the Exorcist project seem to have escaped and become a CSM force, and represent the main Astartes nemesis of the Dragons.


Page 47
"And our route to Flebis?" Their destination was well to the galactic south of Aighe Mortis, halfway across the Maeror subsector, in the farther reaches of the Segmentum Tempestus.
Location of the destination. Important for later. Distance is at least many tens of light years.


Page 48
Volos tried to put his finger on why that was. Certainly, by any measure other than a Space Marine one, she was physically imposing. She was one of the tallest humans Volos had ever seen. At two metres, she was the same height as Toharan.
YEt another tall human, this one a Sororitas (Which is a bit new.) Also noted that some Space Marines are 2 metres tall, which depending on how you interpret things, could indicate heights of average (or just short) Space Marines.



page 48-49
She had been Canoness Superior of the Order of the Piercing Thorn. Minoris though the order had been, its members had made their presence felt, melding a learning worthy of the Sisters Dialogous with a commando military philosophy.
..
But then the taint had come. Exactly what its nature was, and how pervasive the corruption of the Piercing Thorn had been, Volos didn’t know.
..
Whatever Setheno had uncovered, she had denounced her order to the Inquisition. She had demanded its extermination.
Implication that some Sisteres may have been at risk of corruption or suspected of it, but whether this actually constitutes a fall (or if there was any truth to the claim, or if it was merely feared and this a preemptive measure) is entirely up to speculation, and depends on how you view the Sisters.



Page 49
She had refused posting to a different order. Instead, she had become the Canoness Errant, a singular position of vaguely defined, but immense, punitive authority. Her power did not exist at the official level. It emerged from an unspoken consensus that, between her unswerving, merciless faith, and her prowess at war, she was too useful to discard and too terrifying to confront.
Ah, politics. It can make anyone without normally a drop of power insanely powerful and like everything else is immensely variable. Its all perception based on her personality and reputation (and value, at least to certain organizations), but that doesn't mean its not real. It's mentioned later that she may have the backing of the Ecclesairchy (who would understandably want to capitalize on her and her reputation for their own gain via that support.) but I suspect this may very well reflect some sort of supernatural charisma manifesting as a result of her extreme devotion to the God Emperor. We know Sororitas can do shit like that, after all.
This serves yet again as a demonstration of how politics and circumstance can dictate the actuality of power levels within the Imperium, whatever things may 'officially' be.



Page 51
Volos had a vision of the continental land mass tilting, funnelling its six billion souls into this one narrow passage.
6 billion on Antagonis, or at least on one continent. And it is most definitley not a hive world. :D


Page 54-55
In the galactic north of the Maeror subsector, the neighbouring systems of Sarcannis and Perethea were in turmoil, ripped apart by the unholy combination of heretical rebellion and ork incursion.
..
The tactical requirements for successful pacification were straightforward; even Tennesyn could see that. All that was needed was brute manpower. Lots of it. In the Maeror subsector, that manpower was first and foremost the Mortisian Guard, and it was being overstretched. Its forces needed replenishing. The founding was necessary.
..
"The problem," Bisset said, "is the drain on the local population."
..
"The drain? On a population of how many billions? And Guardsmen and mercenaries being this planet’s big export? How does that make any sense at all?"
...
"how stable would you say Aighe Mortis’s civilization is?"
"Not very. It’s terminal."
..
"So there’s your answer. A little push is all it takes to upset the equilibrium, and let me tell you that balance is pretty damned delicate in this latrine. One slip and we’re all in the piss. And this isn’t just a tithe we’re talking about. It’s another full founding. The second in a year."
Again like any hive world, Aighe Mortis tends to provide a significant chunk (in this case, it seems, a majority) of the sector's military force.
On the other hand, despite being a hive world (Technically) the place is so unstable due to its extreme population and technological decline that its political and cultural stability is fragile.
Two full foundings in a year represents a substnatial drain on the 'billions' of Mortis' civilisation. Just how severe is of course up for debate, but even if it were just 5-10% we'd be talking hundreds of millions if not billions alone (By contrast, near as I can tell, 2.8 million troops were conscripted from America's 100 million population in WW1, and a total of 10 million in World War 2 from around 140 million, although those are absolute rather than realtive numbers, but it shows at least 1% conscription is likely.) Given that Mortis is supposed to be much more densly populated than your average hive, even a 1% tithe rate would be ludicrous (billions of troops, easily.) It would certainly be higher than Armageddon or Necromunda in this case, at least (hundreds of billions implied.)
Also note the peculiar distinction between 'tithe' and 'founding'. I wonder if this is meant to represent the 'regular' recruiting (tithes) as distinct from 'at need' conscription (foundings). Its as good a distinction as any, atlhough it also implies that foundings are quite a bit bigger than tithes as a rule.



Page 55
"Bunch of forsaken primitives here, is what they are, and just lucky enough to be living in what their ancestors built. It’s dog eat dog and daemons take the hindmost."
Again, Mortis is sort of the technological equivalent of a 'feral' world, or perhaps even a death world in some ways, given the hazards of enviroment existing in an underhive. Of course this planet actually sounds worse than Necromunda in that respect, the whole damn thing is basically underhive.



Page 56
"I don’t see how their faith can be so weak," he said. He didn’t simply disapprove. He was confused. The Mortisian regiments were ferocious in the execution of their duty to the Emperor.
"The Guard is the end result of a shaping process," Bisset reminded him. "All we have to start with is rabid raw material."
Discussion of the Guard training/creation process. It seems that they don't favor certain kinds of troops because they're already well trained, but because they have certain basic/raw qualities deemed favorable by the guard, which can be refined/honed with training. It also can explain why they would (if they have a choice) recruit from a planet's professional military forces (PDFs, mercs, private armies, etc.) or at least from reserves/militia (if all else fails.) rather than outright conscription.
Of course, despite the obvious shock displayed at the 'quality' thing, its totally within character for the nature of the Guard. Alot of the above assumes that time and circumstance permits the proper training (or even the basic minimum of training') to take advantage of the supposed 'raw material'. If time is short or circumstance severe, that training could be abbreviated or nonexistent.



Page 57
The four corner landing pads each held an Aquila shuttle.
..
The shuttles only had six-passenger capacities..
passenger capacity of Aquila.



Page 57-58
They reached the Aquila. It was full, and it was starting to lift off the pad, but there was just enough authority in Bisset’s uniform to make the pilot hesitate another few seconds. Bisset grabbed Tennesyn with his bionic arm and threw him into the open passenger bay.
Which might just suggest a guard bionic (although admittely one that is probably rather high quality, given the guy also warrants juvenat work and has decades of Guard service.) is strong neough to 'throw' a full grown human, although that does not neccesarily mean 'lift and throw' it could just mean a hard shove, or it might just be exaggeration.



Page 58
..Tennesyn managed to find a merchant willing to make a run to Antagonis. He was an independent runner of small arms, a supplier to mercenaries..
'independent' merchant. Wehther this implies he's a smuggler and thus 'unofficial' (unlicesnsed, perhaps) we don't know.


Page 59
" We could gain some time with strategic orbital bombardments"
'strategic' rather than 'tactical' orbital bombardemnts.



Page 61
The lord of Antagonis regrouped.
...
"But no matter how formidable you and your brother warriors are, what good will that do against billions?"
'billions' on Antagonis again (although they're all zombies by now.)



Page 61
"There is nothing left but to retreat to orbit, and there Inquisitor Lettinger," he bowed to the hooded man, "can give the order to sterilise the planet, ensuring the archenemy’s victory is a pyrrhic one."
"And so, under my watch, I must see the Emperor lose another world?" Vritras demanded.
"It is hardly a strategic–"
..
"With every clod that is washed away, the Imperium is lessened, and we are all diminished. I will not let that happen without being certain I did everything that was possible, and more, to prevent it."
They mention sterilizing tha planet via exterminatus, but not specifying the method. The other (and main) interesting bit is the perspective of the Black Dragons. The novel does a hefty job of trying to portray them in the 'heroic defenders of humanity' role, in the same vein as Uriel Ventris in the Ultramarine novels (Nightbringer and Warriors of Ultramar come to mind.) And its not just pride or honour, they exhibit care and concern for the citizens as well, even as individuals. The tragic thing is, this becomes a point of division in the Chapter (largely because of the meddling of Inquisitor dumbass up there.)



Page 62
"...there is something deep at work here. If we are to combat it, we need to know the precise nature of our enemy. I need a specimen.."
a scholarly sororitas. This is a real change of pace :D I actually like her in this novel quite a bit. She reminds me alot of Miriya, but more like Aescarion, utterly devoted to her God and the Imperial cult, yet not so blinkered by that faith that she is ignorant or lacks common sense.


Page 65-66
Lettinger sighed, wondering if the Imperium would ever be done with the nightmares triggered by the 21st Founding. So much had gone wrong with so many Chapters that should never have been created. Rebellion, excommunication, luck that would make a daemon weep with sympathy – four millennia spent trying to undo the results brought on by the hubris of the Adeptus Mechanicus genetors who thought they could improve on the Emperor’s original genetic work. It was, perhaps, a saving grace that the gene flaws made further recruitment impossible. The cursed Chapters couldn’t replenish their ranks. One fallen Space Marine at a time, they were dying out.
Except the Black Dragons. Isolated from other Chapters, despised by some, their home world unknown, they were still strong. They still inducted neophytes.
Discussion of the Cursed foundings, and hints at the fates. The 'bad luck' clearly refers to the Lamenters (who are cursed.), whilst Excommunication clearyl refers to the Flame Falcons. Either way it was hinted that all the 'cursed' foundings could not recruit, which is rather doubtful, since we know the Fire Hawks could, and the Lamenters can (the curse doesn't affect their recruiting, it just makes them killed in absurd circumstnaces.) Regardless of whether or not they can recruit or not, it can still be said that only the black Dragons seem to be flourishing.



Page 67
"I understand your anger. But do you, I wonder, understand why there is a cloud over the Dragons? The Inquisition is not capricious. It doesn’t persecute for the sheer joy of it. We do have rather a lot to keep ourselves busy, you know."
If Lettinger actually believes that he's even more blinkered than is usual for a monodominant (which he admitted to being in the book), or he simply doesn't have much experience with the politics of the Inquisition.



Page 73
". Brother Keryon reports, and Colonel Dysfield’s pilots confirm, that there are pockets of resistance within the mass of the enemy."
It seems the Mortisians have need of pilots of some kind, either raised with the regiment, or seconded to it some poitn after the fact. What they are piloting (as of yet) we don't know, but its at least capable of reconnaisance. Even odder we learn they have a 'starship'.



Page 75-76
As Volos opened up with his flamer and incinerated the front ranks of the dead...
..
...as he reduced another phalanx of the dead to smouldering bone and ash, he used the momentary breathing space the gap created...
space Marine (assault marine really) flamer literally cremating bodies - high MJ/lwo GJ. It can't have a very bulky fuel source, since we learn the dude can throw it away later (and in any case there's the jump pack, although one could speculate he was tapping from that I suppose.) Either way its anyone's guess how they make the flamethrowers cremate shit (besides magic, of course.)



Page 78
The guard was more frightened of Setheno than he was of Lettinger.
..
A canoness was conducting what was, in effect, an inquisition, while the inquisitor was barred from the scene. Setheno had as little business studying the corpse as he had the absolute right and duty to do so. Yet she commanded, and all obeyed. If anyone else had been on the other side of the door, Lettinger would have ordered and witnessed her immediate execution. That even contemplating such a course of action made him break out in a cold sweat was a testament to her power. The being in that room was will incarnate. Though Lettinger’s rational mind rose in outrage at the slight to his real authority, his every instinct recoiled from the mere thought of moving against Setheno’s wishes.
And yet its very real and very possible (even fairly common) for such to happen in the Imperium. Power is rarely 'absolute' or 'real', but its all very much relative, depending on capabilities, politics, etc. A Guardsman or even Space Marine forces with greater military power than the Inquisitor can, at least temproarily, gain more power, although the consequences afterwards may or may not be severe, for example.
I do find it rather amusing that even the big bad Monodominant is terrified of the big bad Sister. I bet she could even make the Grey Knights pee their power armor. :P



Page 80
Setheno had first had to sanctify the surgery with prayer, and then prepare a network of wards across the stone of the floor and walls, on the door, and around the table. She hoped they would be enough.
Again curious scholarly practices. She has knowledge of the creation of wards of some kind, for containment and protective purposes.



Page 86
Volos dropped the flamer and threw himself to the side as the promethium reservoir exploded.
Again the flamer does not seem to have a backpack fuel source, or be linked to the jump pack in any obvious way (dangerous if it expldoed like that.) Indeed it seemed a fairly self contained weapon, which makes the cremation even more over the top.



Page 91
He saw Lexica give shattering birth to a monstrous worm. It was fifty metres long, wider than Toharan was tall, and writhing with eye-mouths and roiling flesh.
Size of a daemon-worm construct composed of the bodies of the inhabitants of Antagonis. AGain, daemonic creatures/constructs seem to rely on the raw matter of realspace rather than making imaginary matter from the warp. Probably has something to do with the stability it gives ('anchoring' for lack of a better word, the creature to normal space.)



Page 92
Toharan remembered looking at Bethshea during the flight from Lecorb, and seeing in the girl the reason for an otherwise senseless mission. His battle-brothers and the Guard had been sacrificed, but she had been a small portion of the Imperium and its future that had been saved, and so the sacrifices had not been in vain.
This becomes a fairly significant plot poitn later, as the poor guy is suffering guilt for his failure to save the girl. Foundation for a tragedy I suspect, but I admire it too because it demonstrates that, at least for some if not many of the Dragons, the desire to protect the inhabitatns of the planet is based on an actual desire to protect, rather than simply 'honour' or glory or silly shit.



Page 95
Dysfield and Setheno had organised the remaining Mortisians into a fire team under the landing pad platform. All the lasrifles and bolter rifles but Setheno’s suddenly fell silent as the worm looked at the men. It did not need to touch to feed or spread its taint. Its gaze, when met by a human, was enough
Implying that the Mortisians have bolter 'rifles'. For a regiment from a backward regressed hive of techno-barbarians who produce low-quality weapons, they're exceedingly well armed and equipped (eg the vehicles and shit.)



Page 95
The worm was consumed by the justice of Hellstrike missiles. Its shrieks reached a height of pain pure enough to cut crystal, and then they cut off, and there was only the roar of flame
Implying that the hellstrike missiles (however many is fired 2 or 4 is my guess.) If we figure that's the fireball diameter encompassing them, the total energy content might be gigajoules (or tons) of TNT, over however many missiles. Figure tens or hundreds of kilos of TNT at least per Hellstrike warhead.



Page 105-106
It was Lettinger who ordered the Exterminatus, but only after being commanded to do so by Setheno. He had the formal authority. She had the will and the experience. And it was the Black Dragons who carried out the order. They had the cyclonic torpedoes.
..
The primary occulus showed the planet at zero magnification. The worm writhed across the entire northern landmass. To Volos, even at a size that changed tectonic behaviour, the worm seemed more than ever like a disease.
..
The Exterminatus began with an assist from the Mortisian Dictator-class cruiser, Archon Voltinius. It was the least bit of justice that could be granted to the decimated companies. The bombardment began with mass drivers sent in a cluster near the worm’s head. Into that grouping, the Immolation Maw then fired the cyclonic torpedoes.
First a 'Mortisian' Dictator class cruiser. It may imply its the regiments, but we know that can't be the case because the IG isn't in control of vehicles (breaks the separation between Guard and Army to prevent rebellion.) Alternatley its either part of the Mortisian PDF (somehow) seconded to the Navy or Guard's use, or it is part of some sort of Navy detachment headquartered at the hive world. The latter is probably more likely, to be honest.
Secondly, a dictator class cruiser has mass drivers for planetary bombardment, blasting a hole in the crust to allow Cyclonics to penetrate. On the low end this means that one mass driver broadside is perhaps as destructive or more so than torpedoes (at least in terms of KE.) Assuming a 100-2000 ton torpedo and 20-800 km/s velocity (Various sources) we can get anywhere from 2e13 per torp (1e14 J for 6 shot salvo.) whilst on the far end you get 6e17 J per torpedo, which is 3.6e18 J).
The more direct way is by blasting craters. We can presume there's t least one 'battery' (by Rogue Trader RPG defintiions) which would be dozens of guns (conservatively we'll assume Mass Drivers entirely, even though most broadsides ar emixed.) Dictators of course are the carrier cruiser variants, and thus pack less firepower than other cruisers. The poitn of the bombardment is to weaken the crust and allow the torpedoes to penetrate, which suggests it blastas away a substantial (majority) of the crust. Figure at least 10-20 km deep at least, which suggests a 20-40 km diameter at a minimum. That would roughl correspond to bombarding the region near the worm's 'head' which is continent sized (Given the length/width ratio implied before its head is probably is 1/5 to 1/10th the length.) we're talking tens of kilometres easily if the crater is comparable to the snake's head (likely) Figure 24-100 shots, which would be betwen 1.8-3 km radius for the craters, which implies (depending on kinetic and/or explosive effects) megatons (single to double digit explosive - higher for kinetic) to gigatons (for kinetic) of enegy per crater. If we're talkign 20 km radius crater, its 3.5-5.5 km radius which is again megaton for explosive (tens to hundreds) to gigatons (tens or hundreds quite possible) for kinetic. And that's all per shot.
If we go all out and figure it blasted craters through the crust to the magma (40 km radius) its 7-11 km radius per shot. which is hundreds to thousands of megatons (for explosives) and hundreds or thousands of gigatons (potentially) for impact. Broadly I'm thinking of these as very rough order of magnitude estimates, and indications that fireower even for a 'carrier' cruiser is still megaton/gigaton range broadsides, at least.
I'ts also suggesting it fires of a single (short) barrage followed by the torpedoes. Clearly the mass drivers are at least as fast as the torpedoes, if not quite a bit more faster (indicative perhaps of high hundreds/lo thousands of km/s at LEAST.)



Page 106
In the past, Volos had heard human enthusiasts describe the work of the torpedoes as beautiful. Those men were idiots, he had always thought, mighty war boosters who had managed to avoid combat and its inconveniences themselves. But now, he could see a kind of beauty in the work of the torpedoes. It was the beauty of inexorable, unforgiving judgement, and of absolute power. These bombs killed by reshaping worlds.
The artistry of annihilation began with a magnesium-white flare at the site of the strike. The burst was a sudden blossom, a flower from the heart of a sun. The torpedoes blasted through the planetary crust weakened by the Voltinius’s bombs, and drove the mantle into the fury of the storm. Its kinetic energy turned supernova-worthy, the mantle discovered a heat beyond molten, beyond incandescence. Rock became gas. The surface of the planet twisted and flowed like clouds. Mountain ranges new and old became the arms of a hurricane. Antagonis was new again, returned to its infancy. Volos saw the worm consumed by a crust that veered wildly between solid and liquid, mountain and valley. When the terrible dance of the continental plates ended, so had everything else on Antagonis. There was no life. There was no hope. There was no point.
Yet another peculiar sort of cyclonic Exterminatus bombardment, which seems to be the 40K version of genesis. I won't raed 'supernova kinetic energy' too literally, as if that wer true the planet would be nothing but plasma, whilst its quite evident (now and later) that the planet is intact and most assuredly not vapour or plasma. In actuality it seems ot be some sort of weaponized terraforming/geoforming that relies on fucking up crust and mantle both. The energy content, however, could be comparable to sterilization (mentioned before) or a nova/CME/Flare (which WOULD be roughly consistent with those effects.)



PAge 106-107
"And doubtworm is…?"
"A parasitical form of daemonic possession."
"So the walking dead…"
...
"They were suffering the early onset of possession. The larval stage of the worm."
..
"In the larval stage, the victims’ higher thought processes are dulled, but they are aware of what is happening to them. They sense their damnation, and are focussed on it, not on those as yet untouched by the plague. But the people you rescued were fully possessed, and the others attacked them in a final, desperate act of faith before they succumbed."
"An entire planet possessed in a week?" Volos said. ‘How is that possible?"
..
"It is possible because of human weakness. The parasite both feeds on doubt and spreads it. It is during the larval stage that it is most contagious, as that is when its effects are visible. Remember, this is no airborne virus. It is a thing of the warp, and leaps from mind to mind. For almost any human, to see a fellow fall prey to the worm is to feel vulnerable, and thus to be vulnerable. Then, during the pupal stage, the mind of the victim is active again, but only as the puppet to the daemon. During this phase, the worm will work to arrange its propagation to other worlds"
..
"The pupal period lasts until the disguise is either no longer needed or is discovered. The final stage,’ Setheno gestured at the hololith display of the shattered planet, ‘is final."
The 'doubtworm' the plague that infected Antagonis with 'zombies' is described. Its not so much zombie shit as it is a sort of possession.. hive mind possession by my observation.
The interesting thing is that its implied that possessing a whole world in a week is unnaturally fast by 'conventional' possession means. It reminds me alot of those Nurgle bacterial daemon-plagues in alot of ways, and sort of like genestealers with their desire to 'expand'. It also closely resembles a more malignant form of the Hydra from the Inquisiton War, and similar such things.


Page 109-110
"You know that I am not without influence. "
..
" My influence is of a more… informal nature."
..
..I can have the inquiry limited to your company and the Antagonis action. Inquisitor Lettinger is a Monodominant and he is young, and so the cooler, more senior heads in the ordo will be open to mechanisms that will keep him from going too far, too quickly."
..
"That doesn’t mean he will succeed. Particularly if my presence here adds the Ecclesiarchy’s imprimatur to the proceedings."
She mentions resisting would lead to the Chapter as a whole being investigated, so having the company under scrutiny is beter than the entire Chapter. When questioned on her reasons, she basically says that her sole purpose is to do what is best for the Emperor, and thats where her loyalty is. I like that, because its not the mindless, reactionary conviction of the Monodominat Lettinger, but its a more reasoned, yet equally deep and implacable. She's not using her own prejudices and preconceptions to dictate matters, but judges solely on what she perceives (or believes) is where the truth and 'good' ultimately lies.
We also get more clarification of her power adn role. Its more indirect and subtle, which again underscores the fact she has no blatantly outlines powers or authority, but it stems entirely from her personality and charisma, and perhaps her connection to the Ecclesiarchy (hinted at here.)
Still, the fact that she can, via politics, manipuilate even the Inquisition (or at least the more practical senior Malleus types) is impressive.


Page 111-112
"Because of the nature of doubtworm. However complex an organism it becomes, and however sophisticated it appears to be once it makes use of its human host, it is, at its most basic level, very simple. Its attacks are narrowly targeted, but effective. It exploits the nature of faith, and one very specific doubt. The worm’s message to its victims is that the Emperor does not exist."
..
"..remember that to have faith in something is, by definition, to lack proof. Faith is a spiritual wager, not a certainty. To believe is to open the door for doubt. To believe is not to know, and the vast majority of humans, especially civilians, never have any direct knowledge of the Emperor. Thus, they can doubt. You are Adeptus Astartes, and are therefore immune to this attack."
..
"You have faith in each other, in your captain, in the Chapter, in the all-knowing wisdom of the God-Emperor. But you do not need faith in his existence. You know he exists. Your own being is proof of his. He is not just your Emperor. He is your ultimate progenitor. Even the Traitor Legions are incapable of this doubt. They would have nothing to betray, otherwise."
Why Space Marines are supposedly resistant to the doubtworm.



Page 117
They rested at high anchor and in close parallel. Canoness Setheno’s ship, which was also about to lose its owner, was of a manufacture that Lettinger didn’t recognise. He suspected it was a Mechanicus-modified variant of the Cobra-class destroyer. Just less than a kilometre long, it was about the right size for a Cobra, but it was much sleeker. It was a grey, merciless stiletto of a craft, its profile so narrow, its colours so muted and light-absorbing, that it was hard, even this close, to see it clearly against the stars. Lettinger had no such difficulty with the Maw. Over four times the size of the Clarity, the strike cruiser was an ugly, brutal, clawed fist, its outgrowths of flying buttresses and weapon turrets a reflection of the deformed warriors who made it home. It was a ship with a very high degree of long-term self-sufficiency.
Setheno has her own ship, which is similar to a Cobra class. So some cobras are (Again) roughly a kilometre long (2/3 the length of the Cobras from Rogue Trader.) Strike cruiser 4x the 'size' (length? Mass?) of a Cobra. Given FFG lengths (4+ km) or masses (tens of megatons) either is possible.
Setheno being able to get the Admech to modify a ship for her (or that she is even able to OBTAIN a ship for her own use) is pretty freaking impressive.
Also strike cruisers (like all Space Marine vessels) optimzied for self sufficiency and independent operation.


Page 120-121
.. Tennesyn explained that it was he who had sought passage to Antagonis. ‘I really didn’t know anything this serious had happened,’ he said, gesturing at the transformed planet. "I was only just here, and–"
"When was that?" one of the Space Marines interrupted.
"A week ago."
..
"There was no plague when you left?"
...
"Plague?" Tennesyn asked. "No, there was nothing wrong at all."
He left 'a week ago' and had spent a week on Aighe Mortis, which suggests that he spent far less than a day in the warp, round trip. Assuming 8-12 hours one way over ~5-10 LY we're looking at 3600-11000c at least.


Page 122
"Congratulations, Scholar Tennesyn," Vritras said, and there was a welcome shade of humour in his tone. "You have just avoided execution."
A space Marine with a sense of humor is always nice to see, especially when he is willing to show it to 'mere' humans.


Page 124
"Truth be told, it’s sometimes hard not to feel a bit…"
"Resentful?" Toharan suggested.
...
Then he nodded. The gesture was almost imperceptible.
"Excluded?" Toharan said.
..
"Am I any the less a Black Dragon because my bones are all inside my skin? I would kill anyone who dares aver I am."
Bits and pieces from a longer passage, it reflects that there is an inherent division of sorts amidst the Black Dragons. Those 'untainted' face a sort of discrimination over those who do have it, and this will have consequences down the line. Its actually rather tragic, as Lettingers manipulations and Tohoran's guilt over the failures at Antagonis (failure to save the girl, in particular) are driving him to seek some sort of redemption, leading him to a metaphroical quest for 'purity' to save teh Dragons and restore them in the eyes of other Chapters and the Inquisition. When in reality he wants absolution for what he sees as personal failures, and is seeking that through trying to 'save' the Chapter.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Space Marine Battles series thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Part 2 Good part is I'm catching up with a bunch of my analysis stuff, and that means I can get started on a bunch of other stuff. I want to start Ravenor, Cain, the Ghosts, and the IG novels.. but I also gotta finish up a few other things before I do that.

Page 126
He was the oldest Dragon Claw, and the oldest veteran in the company. He kept his exact age to himself, though Volos suspected he was at least a thousand years old.
Implication that there is at least one Black Dragon of considerable age. If so he would be contemporary with some of the longer-lived Space Marines in existence.


Page 127
"I wonder about her, too. I spoke to Epistolary Rothnove."
..
"Is she a psyker?"
"He’s not sure. Neither he nor the Chaplain quite knows what to make of her. They agree that she is powerful."
spoken of in relation to Sehano. She is 'powerful' but whether this translates into actual, tangible power, or more her reputation and influence alone, or what we dont know. It could point to her conviction manifesting as miracles for all we know as well.


Page 134
The planet’s atmosphere was a toxic shadow of its former self after the fires of the torpedoes. "The topography of the entire continent has changed, the tectonic plates have moved hundreds and hundreds of kilometres."
Effects of the cyclonics . Again 'geoforming' explosives comes to mind lol. And given the timescales involved, the effects of simply moving the plates would require countless gigatons if not teratons of energy at a minimum. That they could apply it so precisely in that manner without blasting craters in the surface, I think, is the impressive thing - I doubt you could do this with just a big boom (and doing so would be more efficient via detonation anyhow.)


Page 140
Sternward of the chapel, beyond the prison, was another set of cells. They held a special group of Black Dragons. They were the blessed, and they were the abominations. Mutated far beyond even Volos’s distortions, they were monsters of spikes and horns and scales. Huge, muscled, slavering, they were trapped in a permanent predator rage, and their snarls echoed faintly down the corridors to the chapel. They were berserkers who were kept alive until they could be unleashed to find their final peace in frenzied suicide missions. Toharan had heard that the Blood Angels had a similar squad of the damned, but those warriors, however tortured their minds, were not physical grotesques.
The Black Dragons have thier version of Wulfen/Death Company types.


Page 149-150
There was no cover from what a Bane Wolf fired. Bisset forced himself to watch, desperately clutching the fact that the defenders were traitors.
The chem cannons opened up, spewing a cloud of gas over the rebels. The gas was the sick green of violent plague and bad death, and its movement was a savage roiling. The screams that reached Bisset’s ears were brief, but unspeakable in their agony. He saw skin liquefy, pouring off bones like candle wax. The screams had a gargling quality as blood boiled in veins and lungs. An entire swath of the street several yards deep was scoured of organic life. The purge was absolute.
Bane wolf in action.

Page 150
There were only five of them. There were a hundred times as many Guardsmen, and that was far too few. The battle was even more one-sided than the attack on the rebels had been.
5 daemon-enhanced Space Marines slaughter 500 Guardsmen.


Page 151-152
He had covered about a hundred metres when they saw him. The shot came a fraction of a second before the sound of the report. The bolter slug tore a wound in the air just to his right.
..
Gabrille obliged, then lowered his bolt pistol
Bolt pistol round (space marine) range of ~100 metres or so for accurate hit, takes a fraction of a second to cross that distance, Slightly supersonic, but exact speed isn't known beyond that. If we figure 1/4 of a second (around limit of human reaction time we might figure 350-400 m/s. Assuming a 50 gram slug or thereabouts (slightly heavier than a .75 musket ball that would be about 4 kj of KE, and 20 kg*m/s worth of momentum.


Page 157-158
Makaiel had been away from his side, speaking to the master of the augurs. Now he returned. "A ship has just transitioned into the system."
Indicating again that some aspects of Sensors can be FTL, but only in pertaining to the warp.



Page 162-164
Now forty Space Marines slammed into thousands of the warp-corrupted, about to fight their way over a kilometre of open ground toward the entrenched position of the god-warriors of Chaos.
..
Just behind, and spread out a bit further, came the rest of Squad Nychus: five warriors in Terminator armour. They were juggernauts who crushed and pulped the foe and barely noticed that they did so. And behind them came Tactical squads Pythios and Neidris, widening the swath of destruction and beginning to train their fire on the Chaos Space Marine positions ahead.
..
The squads were halfway across the plain when the psyker attack hit. It was a steady barrage of energy blasts that were Chaos itself. They dragged claws down the veil of reality, rending its flesh, making it bleed. Colours that screamed and sounds that blinded erupted over the squads.
Implying the range of the Imperial weapons was somewhere between half a kilometre and a kilometre range. Also PSychic attacks from the CSM have a range of about half a km.



Page 163
The Devastators of Squad Lanx unleashed their heavy bolters. Rounds with the destructive punch of artillery shells tore the cultists apart. A trench opened up in the enemy.
Heavy bolters linked to 'artillery' shells. I'm guessing some sort of light, man portable mortar though, 60-80mm at most, beause otherwise the implications are just crazy. Or maybe equivalent to large scale autocannon shells.


Page 163
Rothnove, meanwhile, seemed calm. The Librarian was silent, but shouted all the same. His anger crackled in the bolts of warp energy that shot from his hands and incinerated the heretics.
Librarian 'incienrating' cultists. Either single digit MJ (badly burnt) to triple digit (cremateD).


Page 178
"Multiple readings starting at the edge of range,"
..
"Mark them," Vritras ordered, and Toharan’s auspex results flashed to the company. Volos noted the positions as they appeared in his lenses.
Relaying information from auspex to Space Marine armour.



Page 217
The Immolation Maw joined the Imperial Navy fleet at high anchor. The command ship was the Irrevocable Fate, an Overlord-class battlecruiser.
Ships are at 'high anchor' which I take to mean orbit. Possibly geostationary.


PAge 217
A few hundred kilometres west of the northern hemisphere’s administrative nerve cluster, there was a region where the clouds did not flash. The area covered a full hive quadrant, almost a thousand kilometres square.
A thousand km square could mean square km, or (more liekly) 1000x1000 km. Its up to interpretaiton, although the context I've usually seen suggests the latter. In any case if we're talking 1000 square km, and the aforementioned population densities, there would be 10-30 million people in this one area alone (at least) If its more like a million sq km, then we're talking 10-30 BILLION. Depending on how many regions like this there are (quadrant implies at least 4, and there are probably more than one such) either could be plausible.


Page 222
"I think they still worship the God-Emperor after…"
..
"After their fashion?" Setheno finished. Volos heard a world’s doom lurking in her words.
"After the fashion of anyone on a world like this,"
Bisset answered.
"You mean rote, unthought, automatic," Setheno said. "Unfelt."
"Perhaps. But they have had little reason to feel it."
Which could describe the 'faith' of a great many in the Imperium, I suspect. I don't imagine religion in 40K is any differnt than real life, you have people of varying degrees of faith (or lack thereof) who are of a religion or worship it but may not neccesarily believe. At least, not on the deep, absolute conviction level of a Sororitas, which is fairly deep and extreme (and unusual, comparatievely speaking) in and of itself. But given the nature of the Sororitas and their understanding of such matters, it is perhaps understandable that they would think everyone should believe the way they do, and find it inconceivable (or wrong) for others to be any less dedicated than themselves.


PAge 227
The Revealed Truth and its small squadron hung in stationary orbit as near to Aighe Mortis’s sun, Camargus, as void shields would allow. With the Truth were the Apostate-class heavy raider Metastasis, which had taken point in creating Aighe Mortis’s civil war, and the Soulcage-class slaveship Foretold Pilgrimage.
Earlier sources hint at least a week and up toa month or so may have passed in this event. Its hard to know for sure just how long they've been hanging out close ot the star, or actually what the star is, so this is less useful than Eisenhorn. Assuming a Sol like star and in or around the corona. you might get something on the order of The Essene from Eisenhorn, though.

Page 227-228
The squadron was as invisible to the Imperial ships as they were to it, but Nessun had no need of augur readings to tell him who was abroad in the Camargus system. Dancing with the empyrean in the Hall of Exaltation, he had access to minds.
Chaos psyker (or sorcerer) has sensor-like detection of minds and shit of others iwthin the system. Or at least over an AU away from his location (those in orbit around Aighe Mortis, the Black Dragons and such.)


Page 229
Most of Aighe Mortis’s features had been razed, consumed and buried. Thousands of years of industry’s hammer had smashed them flat, leaving only the blackened towers of humanity’s misery to reach for the toxic skies. But some traces of the planet’s shape still showed through, a geological palimpsest. Concordat Hill was an echo of the mountain it had once been, a roughly conical rise distinct enough to lift the spires of its towers above those below.
The surface of the planet has bee planed more or less smooth. Its hard to estimate the amount of material this is (or how much would be usable) but if we figured between 20-200 million tons per mountain and that there were several million you'd be talking tens or hundreds of trillions of tons, at least.


Page 231
The force that controlled the Hill would have the only true high ground for hundreds of kilometres in every direction. The elevation was such that the Hill really did look down on the streets and rooftops of the surrounding city. The Concordat’s own roof had a broad landing pad beside its colossal crozius spire. Though fallen into disuse, the pad was big enough for cargo freighters. Big enough to install a battery of heavy artillery. The king of this hill would have the means to level any sector occupied by his enemy between here and the horizon.
Implied range of artillery on an unknown elevation 'to the horizon'. May mean hundreds of kilometres depending on how you interpret it, but we dont know and we dont know what kind of artillery anyhow.

Page 233
The building’s immense doors, metres thick, had closed automatically as the first combatants had arrived..
Metres thick door protecting industrial facility.


Page 238
The In Excelsis was a Goliath-class factory ship. It was almost five kilometres long. Amidships was a plasma refinery. The transport was Aighe Mortis-registered, and it now re-entered its home system for the first time in years
Size and registry of a Goliath class factory ship.


Page 240-241
The In Excelsis opened its cargo bay. The missile inside was carried off the ship by two tugboats. They transported it a safe distance from the hull before its engine fired and it streaked toward Aighe Mortis.
The Immolation Maw’s augurs scanned the missile, divined its nature, plotted its trajectory, and fed the data to Maro, who sat in the pilot throne, mechadendrites linking him to the being and spirit of the ship. The missile was ancient, of unknown make, and Chaos-distorted. It was also atomic, and its ground zero was Concordat Hill.
..
The laws of physics were unforgiving, and movement was glacial as Maro pulled the Maw at maximum acceleration out of orbit. He set a course perpendicular to the angle of approach of the In Excelsis. He divided the targeting servitors between the missile and the factory ship’s engines. The ship had to be stopped, but not destroyed. And if the missile were hit too soon, it might take out the Goliath.
...
The missile was just reaching Aighe Mortis’s outer atmosphere when the Maw breathed fire with its turrets.
We know earlier that the Strike cruiser was at 'high anchor' and the Factory ship is later stated to be some tens of thousands of kilometres away from the planet. Without knowing size or propulsion specifics of the atomic (other than its probably roughly tug sized) the implied range to interception for the Strike Cruiser's guns is some 10-20 thousand km at least, depending on positioning (perpendicular to Goliath's trajectory, missile intercepted just as it reached outer atmosphere, etc.)
The question is, whether these are cap ship guns, or point defnese.


Page 241
The missile’s death flash was a sear in the void above Aighe Mortis. The shockwave passed over the Imperial ships, punishing void shields and rattling hulls. Maro kept the Immolation Maw on course. The In Excelsis closed in. The window to stop it was slamming shut. Maro acquired his angle on the engines.
Effect of missile detonation . Exactly where the shockwave came from is a good quesiton (as most 'atomic' warheads would release only radiation into space), but on the other hand shooting a nuke shouldn't set it off explosively either (nor should it be a danger to anything even of modern materials beyond a few km.) so there you go. The fact it apparenlty hurts the voids and hull doesn't obther me. Its described as a 'shockwave' and those things are more complicated than just energy (conservation laws and newton's laws and such. One cannot just simply ignore force and momentum)


PAge 242
The In Excelsis lost its forward impulse, but inertia would carry it on in a straight line forever until something stopped it.
Like a planet.
Or another ship. The Irrevocable Fate finished its turn and approached the floating plasma refinery head-on.
..
"It will be a controlled collision. We have to force it back."
Suggesting that, perhaps the starships were fairly close to the Goliath, since they need to slow it down. The fact they're in high anchor and the ship is (again) 'tens of thousands' of km away kind of reinforces that.


PAge 243-244
The energy released by the death of the In Excelsis was, for a fraction of a second, greater than the sun’s. The shock wave was a blinding sphere of superheated gas and dust. It expanded at a tenth the speed of light, hitting the Irrevocable Fate in less than a blink. The battle-cruiser vaporised, the sudden flash of its own death barely visible in the stellar apocalypse of the refinery. The wave hit the rest of the Mortisian fleet. Ships came apart and burned. Engines exploded, hulls were crushed, power systems surged and died. The craft that did not disintegrate became dead hulks, floating in listless orbits toward random collision or eventual destructive re-entry.
The Immolation Maw’s race to the proper firing angle had taken it further out from the Goliath than the fleet.
..
The wave overwhelmed the void shields, popping them like gas bubbles. It took the strike cruiser in its jaws and worried it, trying to shake it apart. Explosions rocked the decks, engulfing servitors in flame. Power flickered, and then went down through much of the ship. Maro went blind as the ship’s sensors were shut down or destroyed.
..
The Maw’s body was horrifically wounded...
..
The shock wave reached Aighe Mortis. If the In Excelsis had been a few tens of thousands of kilometres closer, the explosion would have scoured the planet clean of air and life. Instead, the energy of thousands of atomic blasts was absorbed by the atmosphere. What had been torpid, weighed down by particulate matter into an oppressive, windless miasma of perpetual summer, now became a weather bomb. Vortices of hellish speed formed into hurricanes the size of continents.
Factory ship goes BOOM. Lots of ways to calc it. There's the 'release energy greater than a sun's' for a freaction of a second. There is of course debate about what a 'sun' is in this context, like there always is, my guess would be something like our sun or of a similar magnitude simply because the planet is habitable (or at least theoretically so. Its not frozen anyhow.) But that's just conjecure. At the low end it woudl be a mass exintcion event close up (say around a billion megatons.) stripping off the atmosphere is more precise.. for an Earthlike atmosphere it would be at least 3e26 Joules. That is, however, conservative, as it was mentioned before that the seas/oceans were evaporated into the atmospher.e How much ocean is up for debate (they were described as shallow) but assuming it was within a magnitude of Earth's, the energy output would be closer to e28-e29 joules at least to blast it off.
There is also the fact the Factory ship blows up. By FFG's battlefleet Koronus, a Goliath is some 16 megatons in mass. As noted always, the mass figures are possibly conservative, as there are reasons to believe they migth be bigger (as I've outlined in the past.) but that's not definite. Anyhow, assuming 16 megatons and that that mass represents the shockwave (moving at 10% of c), we'd be talking at least 7e24 joules. Overall, we can figure it falls somewhere in between e24 and e29 joules, and that's still conservative because its an omnidirectional blast.
This is equivalent to anywhere from between 1e8 kg to 1e12 kg of fuel, roughly speaking, with the latter side being damn impressive. (We know it was implied to be several million tons of fuel in Space Fleet, so we might figure its at least closer to the lower end, although that implies some fairly insane energy densities at the higher end as I have also discussed with Space fleet.)
We also know the ships take severe damage (in the strike cruisers sense) or are destroyed in the case of the Navy fleet. We dont know quite at what range they're at, and of course the energy input is variable, but we can make some estimates. Assuming a 7e24 Joule omnidirectional blast at 100,000 km (upper limit of 'tens of thousands' of km) and assuming the starships are right on the edge of the planet, the blast provides an intensity of about 57 MJ per square metre. A cruiser sized vessel (800x800 m roughly head on) would absorb 3.6e13 J, whilst broadside would be ~3e14 joules roughly. An escort (Sword or cobra class) would absorb roughly 5e12 J head on and 2.6e13 J broadside. That is by no means an upper limit, since it measures largely the shockwave alone and not the total energy.
There is also the aforementioned fact that we know they're at 'high anchor' which suggests they may actualyl be quite close to the starships. If we figure the omnidirectional blast is 1e29 J, and at a distance of 1000-10,000 km, the intensity is between 8.3e13 and 8.3e15 J per square metre. At 2 megatons per square metre roughly, an escort absorbs 3.8e21 Joules broadside, and 8e20 joules head on, whilst a cruiiser absorbs some 5e21 Joules and 4.2e22 joules broadside. And this is not neccesiarly a absolute upper limit, either.
Now all that said, there is the fact tha tat 'tens of thousands of km' away bit compared to 'thousands' of atomic blasts. If we figure that actually means less than a million, each 'atomic' would be worth a couple megatons, At 10,000 (more likely) we get 'only' 200 megatons or so. On the other hand if its at the other end of the spectrum (at 20,000 km, since we're still 'tens of thousands' of km away') the total energy is on the order of e27 joules, which yields something well into the gigaton or even teraton range for even 'hundreds of thousands' of nukes. So yeah pretty crazy all around, but again noone said that the nukes are 'normal' either. lol./



Page 249-250
The Black Dragons were not uncaring of the civilians they encountered, whether in the course of prosecuting war, recruiting initiates, or engaged in the salvage and trade that kept Second Company functioning on its homeless crusade. There were Chapters who barely acknowledged the existence of unaugmented humans beyond the abstract awareness that this was, after all, the Imperium of Man. There were others who regarded civilians as a barely tolerable nuisance. But the Black Dragons did not. They knew for what and for whom they were fighting. They knew that destroying enemies wasn’t enough: this was also a war to preserve something.
..
The mutations of his body, however much they enhanced his abilities as a killing machine, were also a warning. There had been so many Adeptus Astartes, from the terrible genesis moment of the Horus Heresy onward, who had fallen from grace, descending into monstrousness because they believed themselves to be gods. The Black Dragons had the daily, inescapable, physical reminders that they were not divine, and Volos had absolute faith in the lesson: the impurity of the body was a goad to find purity of soul through purity of action. Every act had consequences, for oneself and for others. That was not a platitude; it was a profound statement of reality that was forgotten by too many, too often.
Its an interesting philosohpy the Black Dragons have, and its one quite different from alot of MArines. One of deep humility of sorts. Their deformities are meant to remind them they are still mortals, even if superhuman, and that their role is ultimately to serve and defend. Thus in turn, they highly value humans in a way many other Chapters do not. Its something that really impresses me about them, although it has some very tragic implications later on.


Page 257-258
The transports arrived to place a Basilisk gun on the Concordat’s landing pad. Soon, the endless roar of the wind was punctuated by the deep crack-boom of the gun, and the shelling of enemy concentrations had begun.
..
...Toharan couldn’t see the artillery targets, but from the sound of each shot he could tell that the bombardment was taking in all the points of the compass.
Basilisk bombarding from the elevation. We dont know the ranges involved, however, except it might be to the 'horizon' however far away tha tis. .


Page 258
Each shot of his bolter blew a head to paste, each sweep of his chainsword cut bodies in half, and every one of his brothers added to the tally of gigantic butchery. Lascannons annihilated dozens of cultists at once, blowing craters of flesh into their packed density. Flamers reduced advancing walls of bodies to ash.
Bolter headsplosion, lascannon annihilating 'dozens' of cultists which might imply single or double digit MJ (assuming a single beam. If multipel beams we don't know. Presumably its single, since everything else is 'single' but its open to inteprretation) Assuming 2 dozen at 4-8 MJ (4th degree flaying flash burns, or 500 kj 3rd degree burns) you get between 10-12 MJ and 50-100 MJ depending on the calc.
OH and flamers cremate. Again.


Page 261
Reflective flak armour was no power armour, but it had saved Lettinger’s life. He’d been caught on open ground, just below the top of Concordat Hill, when the first, most punishing blows of the wind had hit, and with them the razoring hail of glass. He had been knocked down with the other humans.
The Inquisitor has 'reflective' flak.


Page 267
Should he have explained that he had only killed men he knew to be traitors? And of this, Volos was sure. For all the raging and fury he had unleashed on the Mortisians, he had never been out of control. He had picked his targets with care. They had all been renegade militiamen or disaffected Guardsmen. They had all been part of the celebration at the foot of the rubble. They were traitors and heretics, even if they did not think so themselves, and by their actions had proven Setheno correct. There was only one verdict possible. So he had killed them, but no others. Anyone whose guilt he was not certain of, anyone who might simply be a civilian caught up in the religious frenzy he had created, he had not touched.
Setheno lectured Volos that his deformities were a necessary gift, and that they would enable him to terrify and intimidate the populace into obedience to the Emperor and to kill the heretics and cultists. Which Volos and his men did, but they hated it and hated Setheno for making them do it. Even then, however, we see that Volos did not abandon the key principles guiding the Black Dragons . No mindless slaughter or indiscriminate terror, but simply motivation of a sort. Rather extreme motivation, but part of a Space Marine's role is to terrify both allies and enemies. That cannot be avoided, and if anything Volos restraint is remarkable and laudable.


Page 271
The ship had been brutalised by the explosion, its machine-spirit battered by shock and damage. The Imperial Navy fleet was destroyed. Many of the ships were gone as if they had never existed, reduced to a stream of atoms. The rest were pitiable debris. The Maw was the only ship still to hold its shape. But it was dark as a tomb. A trail of wreckage drifted behind it. From shattered, pierced decks, puffs of vapour emerged as the last of the atmosphere from those levels leaked out.
If the ships are 'vaporized', assuming iron (6 megatons for frigate, 28 megatons for cruiser) we're talking each escort ship absorbing over 4.56e16 J at least 2e17 J, which tends to suggest the explosion was far greater than my lower limit estimate, but not necesarily as great as the higher end. That would be more akin to a e26 J explosion (eg like a 'sun' :P) at 30,000 km for a cruiser or escort as above.



Page 276
he entire starboard flank of the Maw lit the void with turret, lance and torpedo fire. The Metastasis was a much smaller ship, and it had just presented its length to the Maw.
Armament of Black Dragons strike cruiser. The broadside torpedoes are odd. Mayb ethey mean missile batteries?


Page 278
It was two kilometres long, a bulky, clumsy, fat-bodied avatar of hate. It had once been an Imperial transport, but that was a memory so old it had been forgotten. The superstructure seemed to have both melted and grown, spreading spines and strangling vines of metal around the hull. Iron excrescences had formed immense runes over which the air turned brittle and fragmented into buzzing black swarms. Loading ramps gaped like open jaws, and into the ship’s belly streamed the refugees in the tens of thousands.
..
"Soulcage".
Soulcage class slaveship.



Page 280
"How much human cargo can that ship carry?"
..
"Hundreds of thousands."
Carrying capacity of a slaveship.


Page 305
There is no corner of the Imperium that can truly said to be forgotten. Somewhere, in some archive, no matter how remote from the pressing concerns of Terra, records exist of every system and every planet to fall under the Emperor’s protection. But for some regions, the line between ‘forgotten’ and ‘ignored’ is a thin one. These are worlds whose value to the Imperium is minimal, and is outweighed by inconvenience of location, strategic worthlessness, doubtful character, or even embarrassing history.
Basically a planet's importance is dictated by value, location (both are probably closely related - worlds more easily accesible are likely to become economic/trade and industrial hubs.) but there are other factors (pride/ego, politics, or turst/loyalty issues.) The implication is of course that for every planet of importance to the Imperium, there are at least one (and probably many) that are of lesser importance.


PAge 306-307
The twin, perfectly spherical, 5,000-kilometre wide planetoids had been colonized for one reason alone. A system with such a massive xenos-taint would normally have been quarantined. But the Gemini bodies were composed of pure adamantium. Mining concerns had rushed to exploit this unheard-of bounty, ignoring the prefects in the Adeptus Administratum who feared what such a massive influx of the metal might do to the economies of the entire segmentum. In the end, the prefects needn’t have worried. The adamantium was impossible to mine. The planetoids were fully finished, the metal forged to a density beyond human comprehension. They were indestructible.
Assuming solid adamanitum through and through, and that its a density of iron (order of magnitude) we're talking something 5e23 kg per sphere, or 1e24 kg total. This amount of metal (approximately) is considered to be disruptive for a 'segmentum' wide economy, but not for the Imperium as a whole, so they have a use for that scale of material across the Imperium as a whole, which suggests some things (ecnomically and industrially) about theira bilities. We dont know over what timeframe though, but even assuming over 10K years we're still talking 1e20 kg for all 5 segmenta, and thats alot of material, if all things pan out as I assume, at leats.



Page 307
The departure of the corporations and the remoteness of the system meant that, within a few generations, trade with the rest of the Imperium ground to a halt. The citizens of the Abolessus Twins barely noticed. Their worlds were self-sufficient. After a few centuries, they ignored the Imperium as much as it ignored them. And yes, there were records of the system, and what it contained, so it could not be said, to the distress of an Administratum bureaucrat, that Abolessus had been forgotten. But those records had not been looked at for over four thousand years.
Again difference betwene 'ignored' and 'forgotten', and it make sno idfference for self sufficient worlds, although the 'ignored' seems to be largely for economic reasons (its claimed by the Imperium,but it has no value to the larger Adeptus, or commercial interests, or whatever, and thus is ignored.



Page 312
She didn’t see the future. She had no visions of any kind. She had no psyker gifts.
..
The presence of any extra sight might hurt the accuracy of her true gift and curse: perfect clarity.
..
She didn’t know when the assassination attempt would come, only that it would be soon.
Which could mean she either has miracle-based powers like some Sororitas, due to her conviction, or she's just very intuitive/analytical.



Page 315-316
It was impossible for her blows to injure the Space Marine, but nor could he ignore the physics of hits strong enough to punch through walls.
..
In a grapple, she would lose. She didn’t have enhanced Space Marine physiology. Her power armour was almost the equal of his, but in a contest of strength, the result was preordained.
Strength and capabilities of sororitas, vs Space Marine power armour. Its basically equal, meaning both can punch through walls, and that it probably amplifies strength by a similar magnitude, but the effect is much greater for a Marine due to their enhancements.,


Page 317
Clarity could be a curse. In battle, it was a gift.
..
Now it sliced Mattanius’s rounds in half. Setheno’s blow arced into his plackart, parting ceramite.
She can apparently cut apart bullets, which suggests some fairly superhuman sensory capability.


Page 321
From a protective case on her belt, Setheno withdrew an aquila. Like her sword, it was a relic. It was porcelain, fired from clay made from the ground bones of a dozen saints. She held it up before the floating void, and began to speak a rite of banishment. The thing fought, but she was strong. She knew it for what it was. It wasn’t an actual tear in the materium. That would have been beyond anyone’s ability to seal without destroying the ship. The sphere was a thought construction, an abstract idea given substance and a rudimentary intelligence. If it developed past its current embryonic form, it might in time become a daemon. But for now it was too dependent on its creator’s conception, and there was only one individual on board who could be responsible for it. Lettinger’s pride and ambition coated the thing like a signature, and Setheno tailored the rite to be a counter specific to the inquisitor.
Setheno can conduct rites of banishment, and hwats more they have force coming from her. Again whether this is her faith, or actually psychic powers, or relics we dont know, but I'm betting on faith.
She also retains some interesting knowledge of the warp as well.


Page 327
There was no hesitation in the canoness’s stride. She had recovered from her wounds with great speed by the standards of mortals. Volos credited her ferocious will. He caught himself thinking this, and wondered why he was more aware of Setheno’s will than of her faith.
The injuries sustained, I believe, in fighting with a Space Marine (She didn't heal as fast as them, but still faster than a nromal person.) Indicative of her superhuman (divine?) status, methinks/


Page 339-340
They had travelled for hours, passing through the planetoid’s crust, when the platform dropped out of the shaft. Crimson light, the same shade as the moon, filled the world-sized cavern. Volos was near an edge of the platform. He dragged himself forward, looked down, and saw that the platform was actually a piston, retracting a length of thousands of kilometres. The core of Gemini Primus was hollow. The piston was off to one side of the empty sphere, and occupying the core was a bell the size of a small asteroid.
...
And then the fight ended, because the platform fell even faster, burning past terminal velocity, and the moment it crossed that barrier, it grabbed its passengers. Artificial gravity kicked in, and Volos was slammed flat. The platform was keeping everyone alive as the speed became a blinding terror.
...
The bell was the source of the light. It was suspended by a monumental yoke at the top of the cavern, and from the crown to the lip, it was textured with runes. Volos could not read the dead language, nor did he wish to. But at a thousand kilometres’ distance, these runes were not turned into smears by the speed of the fall.
So the moons are, unsurprisingly, not 100% solid, although its implied that the crust is still rather thick... a good 1000-1500 km radius all told, and the mass assuming roughly iron density would 'only' be 3.68e 23kg or so. On the other hand, we know they're inhabited (farmers) and there is no indication there is an active artificial gravity field keeping the shit intact (warp stuff possibly, and there is AG later but only when the thing has been 'primed' by sacrifice, since it is a warp construct after all.) So assuming the graivty comes from the mass (likely but not definite.) we might figure on an gravity 70-90% that of Earth's perhaps. with an escape velocity of 5-7 km/s. Mass would be between 6.43e23 and 8.27e23 kg. Given those probable masses and the estimated crust thickness, we can estimate an adamantium desnity (or at least for THIS kind of adamanitum) of between 14000 and 18000 kg*m^3. Which would be consistent with some of the depictions of it being extremely dense/hyperdense (like FFG material and such.) IT could be that the core is much hollower than I assume, but that would simply push the density up under the above assumptions and if it gets much smaller they get pretty crazy.



Page 346-348
"Minimal. The Revealed Truth is in low orbit, doing nothing at all, and the Soulcage has landed."
..

"Take us to the edge of the atmosphere" he told Maro. "We come over the horizon at the traitor ship with a full barrage."
..
Unlike on Flebis, the Revealed Truth was too low to approach from beneath. The assault was more frontal. The Chaos cruiser came into sight over the curve of the planetoid as the Maw opened up with its frontal turrets and a full torpedo salvo. Toharan felt the rush of destiny fulfilled when he saw that they had come upon the Truth on its starboard flank. Withering fire raked the superstructure, blasting apart the crown of the command spire. The torpedoes slammed into the hull, blowing open enormous holes. A series of hits to the rear detonated an engine compartment. The ship’s stern bucked upward, while its bow dipped towards the surface of the moon.
..
"The Chaos ship had its shields down. I refuse to believe that was a mistake."
we dont quit eknow how big the moon in question is, but the implied distances and heights would imply thousands of km perhaps. Oddly they mention the shields were down and they should be up, implying the 'torpedoes' should have been blocked by shields.
Also the 2 km long Soulcage slave ships can land on planets to embark and disembark people.


Page 362
He wondered if this was the shape of the new role of the Dragons, the role defined by Canoness Setheno: to be the monsters and bring the Emperor’s terror and vengeance, but never to help the population of the planets where they raged.
If that was the Emperor’s will, he would accept it. But he allowed himself the luxury of pity.
Grimdark, but less pointless than it usually could be. And its an indicator that the Dragons aren't completely surrendering to their fate, nor are they liking what they have to do. Which in turn means they probably will not do it unless absolutely neccesary.


Page 363
The friction superheated the air. Battle Pyre and its sister ships raced for the sanctuary of the void, their shields glowing as they were surrounded by hurricanes of fire.
Black Dragon thunderhawks have shields.



Page 365
Gemini Primus and Secundus met, meshed, and rolled against each other. Mountain ranges filled valleys. The grinder absorbed the energy of two billion souls incinerated in a matter of seconds.
...
"And why blood for fuel? It is, of course, one of the essential essences of warp sorcery. But the use of blood holds a lesson, too, as has every baroque step in the activation of this great machine. Its creators, it is clear, were beings possessed of infinite will and absolute amorality."
..
"To walk the path, we must prove ourselves worthy as artists. "
..
"And we must prove our will. To use the machine is to be an annihilator. If we cannot provide blood, how will we have the strength to take it?"
And the 'goal' of the enemy is revealed. Yet another Chaos planet-destroying doomweapon powered by the warp (and sacrifice) Except its two 5000 km diameter admantium moons that grind shit to death it seems. I'm really trying to avoid making testicle jokes here, but its hard.
Anyhow, the 'moons' two populations had a combined populace of 2 billion (poor souls lost to Chaos' ambitions.) and 'why'. Rather more twisted ideology, and the difference between this and Setheno/Volo's ideology is rather interesting. They call it 'purity', but in a way its also fundamentally selfish having to 'show' one is worthy by sacrificing others, whilst Volos and Setheno prove their 'purity' and worth by sacrificing of themselves at least as much as they may sacrifice others, and they only do so out of necessity, not on a whim or for power.



PAge 374-375
Lettinger whipped around the altar, his pistol on full-auto, and bombarded Setheno with las-fire.
..
He scored smoking holes in her armour. She dropped her empty gun and charged him. Lettinger leaped over two rows of pews and ran, firing all the time. She couldn’t hurt him as long as he stayed out of reach of that sword.
They danced around the chapel, he keeping his distance and harassing her with las-fire, she closing relentlessly..
..
The reflective flak armour beneath his cloak wouldn’t be worth a thing against the power sword. But it granted him mobility and speed he could use against Setheno. If she paused, if she looked away even long enough to grab her pistol, he would reduce her head to ash.
..
He fired until his power pack came up dry. She deflected the head shots with her sword, but otherwise stood there, maddeningly stoic, absorbing the shots with her armour, and staggered only once.
..
He had underestimated Setheno’s speed in the armour. She closed the distance between them while he was still realising what he was seeing.
Reflective flak yet again, which is (unsurprisingly) less protective but also much lighter and more mobile than powered armour. The curious thing is that the unenhanced Inquisitor is as fast as the power armoured Sister. Space MArine armour improves speed and reflexes, so one would imagine Sororitas armour does as well (its even hinted at later when he 'underestimated' the speed int he armour.) It may be that the sister was pacing herself or holding back, but one would wonder why she bothered if she was trying to catch teh guy.
Second point, her armour resists quite a bit of laspistol fire without harm (take note) and the others she actually deflects with her sword, which is another indication she has supernatural or miraculous powers.
Oh and lastly, the Inquisitors laspistol has a full auto capability, and can reduce her unarmoured head 'to ash' in an unspecified number of shots (less than the magazine as a whole, presumably still on full auto, and with no more than a few seconds worth of gunfire one imagines.) A human head is around 4-5 kg, and if we figure around 2-3 MJ per kg to cremate (roughly the same energy input as vaporization of body moisture, incidentally) It would be around 8-15 MJ total delivered. Which is ludicrously powerful for a laspistol but note the following:
- Its an Inquisitor's laspistol, which could mean its unusually powerful (EG overcharge or hotshot packs, or custom designed for increased output.) and it may also use variable setting as well as 'full auto') Likewise cremating would require a definite 'heat ray' effect which could mean broad beam/variable focus effects and probably non-explosive effects, which is vastly less efficient than mechanidal/explosive damage effects.
Lastly, its possible 'ash' is not literal, and may simply refer to incinerate. Lasguns typically do not do that severe damage (not impossible if its widebeam or flamethrower-style.) If we figure its a euhpemism for badly burning (but still a heat ray) we could figure between 50 and 400 j per sq cm (3rd to 4th degree burns shoudl cover 'to ash' with charring.) over a roughly 15 cm diameter surface area (figure ~700 sq cm) which would be 35,000-280 kj over that same several second period. Not as over the top as MEGAJOULEZ but still damn impressive showing for a laspistol (even an Inquisitor's.)


PAge 375
Lettinger gaped as Setheno straightened, the blade moving so quickly it became sheet lightning. Skarprattar wasn’t harmed by the mutating powers of the daemon’s missiles. Its aura grew blinding, and the chapel was filled with a piercing, purifying, flute-like song. Setheno lowered the sword and poured her pistol’s entire clip into the daemon. The storm of explosive bolts blew the monster apart, spreading its flesh across the chapel too quickly for it to divide into coherent halves. The stench of ozone and slaughterhouse lingered after the remains evaporated.
Yet another curiosity. apparnetly her power sword not only is quite effective at harming the daemonic, it can deflect (unharmed) the mutational attack magic of Tzeentchian horrors. It suggests the blade is perhaps blessed/supernatural like the Canoness herself. Or maybe she can bestow that power on it.
Also if you blow apart a Horror violently enough (such as a large numbe rof bolt pistol rounds) you can prevent it from 'splitting'.



Page 377
Toharan could barely articulate it to himself, though he could feel it in his breast and in his soul. He had just been witness to the reduction of billions of lives to nothing. Aighe Mortis would be ground to dust. Exterminatus left the husk of the planet behind, but the grinder returned matter to the void. It would deal a death blow not only to the Imperium, but to existence itself. The terrible pressure of being would ease as he travelled on this chariot of oblivion.
Indication that while Extermiantus pretty much fucks over a planet severely, it usually (but not always) leaves it mostly intact. EG it does not completely mass scatter it. Of course there's all those examples from the Horus HEresy.. so maybe it shouldn't be taken totally.

Page 378-379
Volos looked down at the ruins of the Revealed Truth. There were recognisable fragments: a twisted turret here, a blackened gothic arch there. He could tell what had happened, and though the impact of the cruiser had gouged the surface of the moon, there was no crater, and the temple looked untouched.
..
The transparent dome was inviting, yet it had somehow survived the annihilation of a Retaliator-class cruiser.
..
"It would be nice to bomb the place flat,"
..
"I don’t care how sorcerous that dome is. It has to be a weak point. We smash it."
"And how are we going to manage that"
"If we can’t shoot it out, we’ll use the temple against itself. I doubt we can level it, but I think we might be able to wrench it out of true."
By FFG standards, a Retaliator grand cruiser is 36 megatonnes. AS I noted before, the escape velocity is probably between 5-7 km/s for the moon, at least as I estimated it (It could be more, we know its roughly earthlike anyhow.) so call it betwene 5-10 km/s The Truth comes down uncontrolled (having been crippled by the Strike cruiser earlier.) The KE involved due to gravity would be at least between 4.5e17 and 2.2e18 J.
It's also implied that the Strike Cruiser's firepower is less thanw hat the collison inflicted. Which on one hand would imply sub-gigaton firepwoer, but there is a difference between a collision of a high mass starship and a bombardment, at least in the sense the collision has higher momentum, so its not impossible for the KE of the broadside attacks to be higher to compensate for the difference in devastation. Besides which, there's also the same fact FFG ship masses may be off, as discussed in the past.



Page 379
"This isn’t going to be subtle, is it?"
Volos grinned, but he was also snarling in anticipation of crushing vengeance. "I am Adeptus Astartes, not Inquisition. Of course it isn’t going to be subtle."
Another reason I like this novel. The space Marines get some GREAT lines.. and its kind of humorous in that 40K fashion.



Page 379
They saw the Thunderhawks pass overhead, and then head off beyond the curvature of the moon. Toharan wished for anti-aircraft weaponry.
Implies anti-aircraft weaponry with range of hundreds or thousands of km, although of what nature we have no clue



Page 379-380
"Orbital launch!"
Symael yelled.
Toharan looked up, through the dome at the dark and stars. One star was rushing towards them. It became a streak, then a shape. In the eternal fraction of a second before it hit, Toharan had time to realise he was seeing a torpedo come for them. He had time to know that he had lost the Immolation Maw. He even had time to deduce, if only one torpedo had been launched, what sort of ordnance it must be.
He did not have time to brace himself.
His helmet shut down his senses to protect him from the worst of the flash and blast of the cyclonic torpedo.
First off, HAH HAH for launching a cyclonic to blast the fuck out of the chaos sorceror shield. Secondly its apparently one of the 'tacitcal' cyclonics, the one used for destroying more isolated regions (say, only a city) rather than fucking up huge chunks of the planet. (either that or the shield absorbs alot of the punishment without dumpint it to the enviroment.

The second question then becomes the torpedoe's velocity. It takes a fraction of a second maybe, possibly not more than one or two seconds depending on interpretation. We know the ship is above the atmosphere (tens or hundreds of km) and quite possibly low orbit (Several thousand km) So at the very least tens or (more probably) hundreds of km/s, and quite possibly upwards of several thousand km/s. The latter is not inconceivable, given the aforementioned fact that 'torpedoes' seem to be blocked by voids, and high velocity would be one reason for that.



Page 391
Their one heavy bolter stuttered to life, stitching fist-sized rounds along the front of the Dragon advance.
The only way I can possibly see interpreting this is if 'fist size' refers to the msas of the shell, which if so might make a shell the mass of a human fist a couple hundred grams or so. Considering its around 25 mm or so (an inch diameter) for heavy bolter shells, thats not at all improbable, especially if its longer because of the rocket.



Page 391
Melus felt the attack lose steam, and in the moment of hesitation came the energy bolts.
The sorcerous attack was a full salvo, multiple psykers unleashing their powers simultaneously
A flash that giggled side-swiped Melus, knocking him down. His left shoulder guard had vanished. The edges sizzled, and his upper arm was opened almost to the bone. Two other brothers weren’t as lucky. Their helmets and heads were gone. Tendrils like coiling snakes danced over the stumps.
Effects of sorcery attack. Probably Tzeentchian, so that means its not brute force, but its devastating nonehtless.



Page 395
A streak of pity rushed through Nithigg’s anger. The awful waste and tragedy of what had happened was a lead weight in his chest.
..
..he had never seen such division and betrayal. And he had always liked Symael, thought him a first-rate, if unimaginative, fighter. He had trained the younger man. The pain of killing him was as real as the need to do so. He knew Symael and the others had been tempted and manipulated, but they had still made the choices. Yet he couldn’t help but hope for the possibility of at least a hint of redemption. There was so little hope to go around; he couldn’t bring himself to throw away what little he could grasp.
Its notable that even now, the Black Dragons are still clinging to their old notions of 'right' and honor and shit, and this really (IMHO) sets them apart from Space Marine chapters, like Ventris' Ultramarines, or the Salamanders, or similar. Its one of the reasons that for me this doesn't become just yet another dull, repetitive Space Marine killfest.



Page 404
Now almost ten metres tall, Toharan advance on him.
..
..he Hellstrikes flashed down through the dome. Keryon’s aim was truer than he could have hoped. Toharan disappeared in the fireballs. Flames washed over Volos and the blast wave threw him to the wall again.
assuming 5-10 m diameter fireballs roughly somewhere between single and triple digit MJ roughly per missile.



Page 408-409
"So that you might be useful to the Emperor. You are discovering the true potential of your Chapter."
"Necessity again," Volos said softly, but he didn’t disagree.
...
"Yes," said Setheno. "You have felt it. We must do anything that will preserve the Imperium. What we will be called on to do will only grow worse. The future is desperate. The Golden Throne was built by human hands, captain. It requires endless care and repair. Do you imagine that it will last forever?"
Volos’s eyes widened. He was staggered by the blasphemy. "You are without faith," he said.
"You’re wrong. There is no greater faith than the faith in a lost cause. I will fight to preserve the spark of humanity in the galaxy. The Emperor is our only hope, and I will give him my last drop of blood, and that of anyone else, should it come to that." She gave Volos a hard look. "So will you."
He nodded.
..
"You are a monster of myth to them, too," Volos said to Setheno.
...
"I hope so," she answered. "You and I need reminders of that sort. We must know the atrocities we commit for what they are. And the next one is mine."
Something of an ending of the story, not exactly the happy type. Basically they have to sacrifice a bunch of pilgrims without their knowledge to power up the doom testicles and prevent it from being used to detrosy the Imperium. Very much 'greater good' sort of thing that has been the theme throughout the book. However, what stops it from being grimdark is the fact its not totally nihilistic - there's a purpose, as well as a burden, adn that burden is accepted by both Volos and Setheno (especially the latter, she accepts the burdens of turning the Black Dragons ot 'monsters' as well as for having to kill millions in the name of preserving humanity, And she knows she's doing a horrible act, nothing changes that, it is only justified by the need - as she sees it - to preserve the greater Imperium. And yet she also knows it does not reduce the horror of the act, or make her any less monstrous for haivng to do it. Another sacrifice for that 'greater good.')
The other good thing is that this act is balanced, however faintly, by hope. Hope is an important component to these sorts of things. You really can't have all that grim 'sacrifice and futility' crap without at leats some hope to balance it out. However horrible things might get, it becomes pointlessly nihilistic if there is nothing to hope for (and also nothing to lose.) Its important to have something big and important to believe in, something to justify all those horrible things you've endured (or in this case, inflict on others) because otherwise the fact you did those horrible things becomes meaningless and you became a monster for nothing. What's more, this has very much been a tenet of 40K fluff from the earliest days. I mean look at the Emperor himself - he lives in a state of perpetual undeath, denied that final rest, having to subsist by horrific means (sacrifice of living human psykers to help sustain him, not to mention those sacrifices to the Astronomican) in order to sustain and protect the greater mass of humanity agianst the myriad threats against it, against the hope that at some point in the future, humanity will be shephereded into the ascended state its psychic nature.. again horrible things must be permitted (liking them or considering them right is another matter) for some greater good and hope for the future. And whats more there's that risk that it may not come to pass, and all those sacrifices (sacrificing both the lives, and the morality to that greater need) are in vain if it fials.
For me, disliking grimdark as a rule and such 'negative' shit, I still find it pretty powerful and compelling in that.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Space Marine Battles series thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

I'm resurrecting Space Marine Battles with the next line in that series, 'Death of Integrity' by Guy Haley. Its about the Blood Drinkers vs the Novamarines and it takes place mostly on a Space Hulk. Whilst its obviously Space Marine oriented, its about the interpersonal dynamics of chapters and the way they interact/cope with their brothers/cousins as well as with the various factions of the Imperium.

Ostensibly its about an event from early fluff, with the Novamarines and Blood Drinkers chapters clearing out a Spacehulk, but the bulk of the story centers around the pasts and myths of both Chapters and how it impacts them. The Blood Drinkers are portrayed as passionate, sympathetic to humans, and yet with a very dark, bleak secret. The Novamarines likewise are more 'Ultramarine-ish' in their respects, except for some of the more 'un-Smruf' traditions (like the tattooing.) In some respects they have certain similarities as well. The interactions between the two chapters and the Asshole Mechanicus (yes big shock, there's technology involved after all) form a significant part of the story.

Another interesting thing for me about the novel was that both Astartes factions were presented as being well... cool guys. Not dick marines like the Marines Malevolent. But the traditions they hold to and how they perceive themselves is dramatically different, and it leads to different outcomes (and in the sense of the Blood Drinkers, a bit of tragedy.) It plays on the 'defender of humanity' angle vs the 'how important/valuable are Space Marines' angle, in the sense it discusses just how far can a Chapter justify preserving itself at the expense of those they defend.

Oh and in a technical sense. GIGATONS. Hilarity ensues on multiple levels. Between this and Baneblade, I can't wait to see what Guy Haley comes up with next. And story wise, I feel Haley did a much better job here than Baneblade. Whilst I love that book, that's partly because my IG bias is showing. The characterization and plot are much more focused here.


Update wise this is very short too. two small updates done at once.

Part 1


Page 13
The machines moved slowly, as if time ran differently for them. Boltgun rounds smacked into them, but failed to penetrate. Together, the ghost machines raised their weapons.
..
The guns were silent. A black orb appeared on Verderio’s chest. He glanced down at it, and died. Verderio collapsed in on himself, pulled toward the ball of unlight. His armour shattered with a deafening crack. Blood sprayed in all directions as his body imploded.
..
Dozens of bolt rounds spattered off them without harm, a few exploding when they ricocheted and buried themselves in the fabric of the chamber.
Wraithguard resilience ot bolter fire, and the effect of Wraithcannons on power armor.





Page 14
Galt’s charge had bought the Sternguard time to change their magazines for those holding vengeance rounds, the unstable fusion cores of these bolts allowing them to penetrate the thick armour of the constructs. Even so, such was the density of the materials used to make the wraithguard that evidence for the explosions of the rounds within was but a splintering upon the surface.
Vengeance rounds make their appearance (or at least one interpretation of such) and their effect on Wraithguard. Interestingly enough, its not just the explosive effects that seem greater but the fusion cores seem to somehow improve penetration (either some sort of shaped charge, or somehow the round is propelled at a higher speed or some other penetration-related propery)






Page 17-19
The Shadow Novum was the hall of the dead, home of the shades of Novamarines gone before, a place where guidance could be sought from the heroes of the past. Why else did the living carve ceaselessly at the mountains? The dead needed their barracks and armouries as much as the living, and their numbers grew with every passing year.
...
"Brother, what aid may the dead grant the living?"
..
"The dead are not subject to the laws of time as are the living, lord captain. This place is eternal. Time has no meaning here. I died a long time ago. Or yesterday. Or tomorrow. It matters not. We are all here, all the brothers past and all the brothers yet to be. You are here, as am I. Tell me, are you living, or are you dead? Do you know yourself?"
An interesting facet about the Novamarines is that they apparently have a connection to Dead marines of the past in some manner - the 'Shadow Novum', the request for aid, etc. This help seems to be largely (given the last paragraph and the effects of time dilation mentioned) prophetic in nature, and hints at a connection to the Warp. The Shadow Novum thus, might be a 'reflection' of the real Novum (NovaMarine Fortress Monastery) in the Warp, brought about by probably concentrated belief like most things are.






Page 23
"No brother, do not speak his name, not to me nor to anyone else, and especially not to him. Time is meaningless in the place beyond. The ancestor-grounds of the Shadow Novum are populated by all those who have died, and will yet die. For the living to see one there who still breathes is unusual, but no cause for alarm. Indeed, for the shade of a man who still lives to seek out a supplicant is a sign of great honour, you should be proud, brother-captain."
Mention again of the Novum and hints about its role in the Chapter. Again it seems that the 'reality' is born out of the beliefs of the Marines and (probably) the inhabitants of the planet they control that are indoctrinated into the Chapter's cult.





Page 24-25
The battle-barge’s reactor built to a terrific howl. Warp engines pulsed with arcane forces that sent shudders rippling through the ancient vessel’s fabric. The lights flickered as all power was diverted to the bracing fields that helped hold the craft’s enormous mass together.
...
The thrum of millions of tons of plasteel under his feet grounded him in reality even as the vessel hung precipitously on the cusp of non-existence.
Two details: One, a battle barge massing 'millions' of tons, and it also has bracing fields (active fields, that draw power) that help reinforce the ship's structure. Indeed, they seem to be an essential part of the ship's construciton implied here.





Page 30
A bright blue sun occupied most of the view. The ship was close enough that the men aboard could see flares ejected from its churning surface, the top and bottom of the star cut off by the window. The light was raw, dangerous despite the windows’ protective dimming, bleaching out the subtle colours of the stained glass. There were no planets around Jorso, it was too violent a star for fatherhood. Its searing light had blasted the dusty stuff of its offspring into interstellar space before they had had chance to coalesce.
Against the sun, the other ships in Galt’s fleet were silhouettes both small and insignificant. He recognised them all from their shapes, they were as familiar to him as children are to their fathers. Two strike cruisers and four escorts. One caused Galt concern. Corvo’s Hammer sparkled with vented plasma, the price of victory in their last engagement.
Blue 'star' of some kind, presumably a blue giant or supergiant. We dont precisely know the size or classificaiton, so the luminosity could range anywhere from nearly a hundred times greater than our sun to million or more. we also don't *quite* know the distances involved, although the hulk itself (their target) is stated to be two light-minutes away and although its much closer (supposedly) than is typical for such starships, probably tens or a few hundreds of millions of km (no more than 1-2 AU away, in other words.) It is implied that the hulk is close to the star, as we learn later that the debris might be consumed by said star.

If we figure anywher from 36 million to 300 million km or so, a 1.5 km long escort (FFG stats) would absorb a constant double to triple digit gigawatts of power from the sun on the 'low' end. A much larger star (on the opposite end) would be significantly greater - several tens of kilotons to several megatons of energy for an escort. Not inconsistent with other similar examples of 'stars' either (Essene from Eisenhorn obvious as an example)





Page 32
"Mass, thirty-seven point nine trillion tonnes, albedo point eight-seven, gravitic displacement…"
...
"Estimated composition, three hundred and seventy vessels, of which fifty-three per cent class gamma or lower, twenty-four per cent class beta, eighteen per cent class alpha. Remainder unknown. All best estimates. Certainty impossible"
estimated space hulk mass and ship numbers. Average mass implied would be easily a hundred billion tons. Now that said, hulks are rarely *just* starships, they can accumulate debris of various kinds (like asteroids) and the novel does mention that. Nor are all the starships Imperial, although a fair percentage seem to be. But all that said, its a LUDIRCOUS number. It could still be off by a factor of 1,000 and its still ludicrous compared to FFG figures. (Average ship mass, remember) Overall its not conclusive, but it does suggest Imperial starships are much bigger than FFG would indicate





PAge 44
"We swore eight thousand years ago to the Lord of Macragge to defend the Segmentum Ultima, body and soul, living or dead. Our business takes us far and wide, but does not often take us beyond segmentum bounds."
The Novamarines restrict their operations entirely to Segmentum Ultima, by oath. Which is hardly all that restrictive given Ultima easily encompasses roughly half the total diameter of the Imperium. And considering they are a Codex chapter (and thus small compared to say, the Black Templars) thats a pretty hefty responsibility at that.






Page 45-46
"In the fleet: the Novum in Honourum, two strike cruisers, and four escorts. We have approaching three companies here, near the entirety of the First and Third, much of our Fifth also."
..
". I am therefore left with little more than one and three-quarter companies aboard Lux Rubrum and our four escorts."
The fleet compositions of the Novamarines and Blood Drinkers, respectively: 2 battle barges, two strike cruisers and eight escorts. If we extrapolate the Novamarines size from approximately 1/3 of the Chapter present, they might have up to 3 Battle Barges, 6-7 strike cruisers, and perhaps a dozen or so escorts, although I'd bet they have far more than that.





Page 51-53
"Port broadside, fire," he said.
The floor shook as the port weapons batteries discharged. Plumes of fire erupted all down the ship from the cannons between its launch bays. The bridge vibrated with every report.
"Bombardment cannons, fire at will," he said. "Corvo’s Hammer, Ceaseless Vigilance, commence firing when ready. Thunderhawk wings, await my command."
The turreted bombardment cannons spat no fire, their munitions, magnetically impelled, shot from their gaping muzzles at a velocity so high there was only the briefest spark of sunlight on metal to tell of their passing.
Corvo’s Hammer and Ceaseless Vigilance’s prows flashed as their guns discharged. Away ahead of them, made small by distance, Lux Rubrum sparkled with righteous violence.
The hulk was a long way away. If would be nearly half an hour before the first rounds hit home. The bridge fell back to quiet, muttered orders and muted conversation the order of the day as the complicated affair of space combat was undertaken.
Twenty-seven minutes or so later the bombardment cannon rounds, outpacing the explosive-cast shells of the weapons batteries, hit home.
Bright explosions flared on the side of the hulk, round blisters of fire welling up on its rough skin. Those less sophisticated than the adepts called such rounds lava bombs. Each contained a large fusion generator. In the brief moment the fusion generator operated, the bomb generated several gigatons of explosive energy, hotter than the surface of a star. Weapons like that could crack a planet’s crust, given time.
They were equally effective against the space hulk.
"Target report." Galt directed his question at one of the battle-brothers acting as officers on the bridge. Brother Montan, Fifth Company, he noted. He should and did know the names of all the initiates under his command.
"Target integrity holding, brother-captain."
"Continue bombardment," said Galt. He cast his eye over the tactical hologram over the chartdesk. It pulsed and flared with bursts of light, denoting hits. "Concentrate on target point alpha ten, I see a weakness there. Exploit it."
Energy beams flicked across the void. Shells glimmered in the eternal night of space. The black between the fleets and the hulk sparkled with short-lived stars.
Lots of details here. Oh, where to begin.

First, the interesting implication that the Bombardment cannon and broadside weapons operate on different weapons principles as far as propelling the rounds go. We dont know the difference (we could speculate) but the strong implication is that the broadside cannons on the battle barge are NOT magnetically accelerated.

Secondly, half an hour for the bombardment to reach the target approximately. As we learn later the distance is some 2 light minutes at least, which over half an hour leads to a average velocity of some 20,000 km/s. Bobmardment shells actually strike in 27 minutes (roughly) over that distance, which is more like 22,200 km/s. This is roughly consistent with Execution Hour and other implied 'high velocity' bombardment cannon propogation rates, unsurprisingly. (CONSISTENCY? UNTHINKABLE.) This does seem to imply roughly similar velocities for macroshells as well (albeit being slower than the bombardment cannon rounds. Odd given that bombardment cannon are generally SHORTER ranged...) but it could be argued slower, so its less definite than the bombardment cannon velocities. WE know macroshells weigh between 'several tons' and anywhere up to several hundred tons (as big as a marauder bomber or 3 Battle tanks) so a bombarmdent cannon shell could be anything from a mere 10-15 tons to a thousand or more (indeed some hints at them being as large as torpedoes and nova cannon shells, wjhich might suggest a hundred tons to several thousand tons.) which would yield a KE somewhere between 600 megatons and upwards of 125+ gigatons for bombardment cannon. If macro shells travelled at around 10-20 thousand km/s we could get between 24 and nearly 10 gigatons of KE per macro shell (Although again, less certain KE wise.)

Oh and the MULTI GIGATON bombardment cannon shells. This is a positively cackling HA hA scene here, since its basically yet another indication of the scale of firepower Imperial ships can dish out. Its not neccesarily ship to ship firepower mind, but they can clearly amass and unleash in short periods of time this kind of firepower. WE know from Execution Hour and other sources Strike cruisers are still matched by Imperial cruisers as well, so we could expect them to (at least) generate similar levels of firepower. We also know from 'Fallen angles' that macro shells are 5x the size and explosive power of bombardment cannon shells. Assuming at LEAST a 3-4 gigaton bombardment cannon shell based on google definition of several we'd be looking at a 600-800 megaton macroshell yield. probably the explosive bits. Obviously if the 'several gigatons' is larger, so is the yield, so its not improbable to say macro cannon yields are high megaton/low gigaton, and that the weapon broadsides can certainly reach gigatons (again)

An interesting speculation givne the implied context of the KE calcs above is.. are bombardment cannon and macro shell rounds (at least in this instance) more comparable to armor piercing munitions (and thus might have a small explosive/bursting payload relative to its KE) or a HE shell (and thus quite possibly larger yield than the KE alone.) Generally macro and bombardment shells seem to be proximity weapons (like nova shells) but we know of them being direct fire 'impact' weapons as well, so it could be argued either way. If they're closer to HE of course then the 'several' gigatons of the bombardment cannon would be considerably greater (double digit gigatons) and thus a corresponding increase in yield for macro shells as well.

Another interesting speculation related to this would be projectile 'yield to weight' ratios for the estimated yields of macro vs BC shell. Traditionally for KE calcs I often assume a range of values for both a very low mass shell (a few tonnes) to hundreds of tonnes in mass. Whilst a larger mass yields a larger KE yield in those cases, the relation between shell mass and the explosive yield here is inversely related. That is, the smaller the shell is, the more powerful the explosives technology. A 2 ton shell at 600 megatons would be 300 megatons per ton tech wise (many times more efficient than real life YtW ratios for nuclear weapons).. whilst at the other end several hundred tons would suggest something like 3-4 megatons per ton.. well within the theroetical limits of and not quite as good as the BEST YtW ratios modern weapons get, but still quite good by 'modern' terms as well. Its an interesting tradeoff.. one might scale down the mass to reduce KE yields (and since there are certain practical constraints on projectile velocity with regards to range and accuracy and the way 40K ship combat goes, you can only cut that down so far without dramatically changing the combat dynamics as presented) this would invariably mean a much bigger YtW ratio, and vice versa. If we were to try to 'balance' between the two, say at 40-60 tons, you might get a YtW ratio of 10-20, which would be within the bounds of a 'fusion' weapon, and a KE (assuming a ~2000 km/s velocity, which is acceptable given this novel) of at least 20-30 megatons.

This is also the second example of needing multi-gigaton munitions (1st edition Space Hulk, anyone?) to take donw a hulk. If we go with teh 560 gigaton space hulk nukes (100 per ship, so 300 total) as a benchmark would be nearly 168 teratons to oblierate the hulk (roughly same magnitude I estimated for cyclonics I might add lol) over a two day bombardment by a dozne ships this owuld be a sustained firepower of ~80-85 megatons a second average per ship. If we go 'per half hour salvo', which over a 48 hour period would mean nearly 100 bombardments it would be nearly 146 gigatons per second per ship on average. Gotta love that kind of 'consistency', don't ya? :P

Oh and one other thing.. since we're talking 'fusion' here, it is possilbe to interpret by other sources (FFG, Space fleet, etc.) that the macro warheads could be more powerful as some sources list 40k 'plasma' warheads as being considerably more powerful than conventional nuclear fuels/explosions (the exact ratio is up for debate, but Space Fleet naturally gives that 1000x factor twice) On the other hand, as noted, its also possible to interpret 'plasma' as 'fusion' and a number of novels (including this one) lean that way also so... its not definite, but interesting nonetheless.





PAge 53-54
"Jorso’s magnetosphere is lively. But we’ve lost most of our auto-targeters, brother-captain."
"I trust your hands and eyes to guide the gun crews, brothers," said Galt. Not once did he take his eyes from the blazing hulk. The bombardment would now rest with the judgement and skills of the brothers. They were trained to solve the difficult calculations of combat over such a distance. The hulk was two light minutes away, and so what they saw was where the hulk had been two minutes ago. The actual position of the hulk and the differing speeds of the Space Marine projectiles all needed to be taken into account to ensure effective targeting.
Confirmation that as I said earlier, the distance seems to be roughly 2 light minutes out. Possibly a bit more but unlikely as they do not seem to be moving towards the target at huge velocities (shortly, they have to take evasive action to avoid running into an AdMech fleet coming out of the warp right in their path.)
Also, the mention of automated targeting on Space Marine ships. Hardly shocking, as we know they utilize servitors to load and man guns and minimize crew requirements (compared to their Navy counterparts.) Having the servitors linked into the ship's cogitators/machine spirit would hardly be unusual, but without the auto targeters the servitor control (Assuming it wasn't also knocked out) may devolve to manually directed by the serfs (which I presume is described here, rather than simply loading and firing the guns.)



Page 55-56
A great vessel, longer than either of the battle-barges and at half their mass again, floated serenely between Novum in Honourum and the space hulk as if it had always been there, its rust-red exterior betraying none of the violence of its arrival. Void shields flared as weapons fire intended for the Death of Integrity slammed into them.
"They’re opening fire, brother-captain!" shouted Persimmon.
Galt bared his teeth, ready to return the favour, but stopped. The arcane cannons that lined the vessel from prow to stern remained silent. Only swarms of interceptor missiles issued from it, not ship killers, and they slammed in their hundreds into shells still streaking from Lux Rubrum.
Galt saw what he expected to see, a skull, half-human, half-mechanoid, contained within a white-and-black cog – the badge of the Adepts of Mars.
Rather interesting. Admech starship larger than battle barge easilly shrugs off multiple multi-gigaton bombardment cannon rounds, although its hard to say how many. Moreover, the engagement range to hit the starship, and the implied ranges at which shots would be fired is not stated, but the fleet had to perform an immediate evasive action in order to avoid being hit.

We know from other sources (EG BFG) the 'accurac'y of warp jump sis variable (hundreds of thousands or millions of km from the 'intended' point is accurate) could mean that that is the rough distance involved here. Also given the implied velocities of weapons fire before, and the time evasive action would probably take (seconds if not minutes) we'd likewise be talking hundreds of thousands if not millions of km easily.

Alternately, the interpretation is that the AdMech ship emerged precisely halfway between the fleet and the hulk, implying a one light-minute range, or around 18,000,000 km. Not impossible, as we know from 'Sons of Fenris' the implied torpedo range was 25 million km or so.






Page 78-79
He considered again using the fleet astropaths to ask Chapter Master Hydariko for his guidance, but decided against it. The captains of the Novamarines operated alone much of the time, and were expected to use their own discretion.
We learned earlier in the novel that their location is roughly on the edge of the Segmentum, in a location where a great many young stars are born and few inhabitable worlds exist, which suggests (to me) somewhere close to the inner-most edge of the segmentum. honourum is maybe some tnes of thosuands of light years away, and Galt expects a reply within 4 days or so (the Deadline Galt gives to the AdMech before destroying the hulk, suggesting 2 days to and fro (with zero time for consideration) - this can easily suggest millions if not tens of millions of c transit speed for astrotelepathic messages.





Page 86
The Death of Integrity was the biggest space hulk Voldo had seen, big enough to ape a moon in feature and form. The surface stretched away tens of kilometres, ships’ prows raised in baroque mountain ranges, buckled hull skins waterless valleys edged with knives.
Implied size of the Space Hulk.




Page 96
The armour, for all its sensorium’s sophistication, provided a limited view to his eyes of flesh. His peripheral vision was circumscribed by the edges of the suit’s cowling and shoulder pads. He could turn his head only so far to the left or right. In a similar manner, he could not look far either down or up without tilting his torso, the movement allowed by the plastron and outer placard that made up his breastplate being restrictive. He could not, of course, see behind him without rotating the whole of his body, and the suit cameras of his squad were invaluable in providing alternative views of the environment.
On the open battlefield, such things were a lesser concern, but in the cramped confines of the spacecraft, they could be deadly.
Drawbacks of Terminator armor in terms of visibility.





Page 96
..inexperience was as perilous as a direct lascannon hit to those wearing Terminator plate.
Implying Terminator armour is vulnerable (potentially) to lasfire.




Page 97
Voldo had his map zoom in, mentally selected the icons for brothers Astomar, Eskerio and Tarael. He used his suit visor overlay to plot new positions for them. He executed the command and sent it to the two squads. All this took a breath, his thoughts conveyed from his mind to the ports in his black carapace and thence to the Terminator armour’s own cogitator and on to the squad. Wordlessly, the veteran brothers obeyed.
communication and data-sharing functions of Terminator armor.





Page 99-100
Alanius stayed kneeling, staring at the dead man. Voldo felt a rush of brotherhood for the Blood Drinker.
"You think on his fate?"
"Dying, alone in the dark. Yes. It pains me our kind are too few to protect them all," said Alanius. "They treat us like gods and yet they still die."
"The Adeptus Astartes cannot be everywhere. We do what we can. The loss of a billion lives is nothing if the Imperium stands," said Voldo sternly.
"We are here now, are we not? Too late for him and his comrades. He would have died in terror, with no succour."
Voldo rested his hand on the other sergeant’s shoulder. "If that is so or not so, they are long gone and we have other foes to concern ourselves with. I admire your care for life, in these dark times men are careless with what is most precious of all, and for the nature of this man’s death I feel also grave regret. But we have another task that will save others from similar pain. Come, we must go on."
An interesting passage, isn't it? On the surface its one of those 'Astartes not being asshole' things I always like to seem but there's more to it than that here. On one hand you also see the key difference between the Astartes and humans - as much as Voldo values those he protects, he is still the pragmatic (even harsh) Astartes - aware that he cannot save everyone, and willing to sacrifice some so that the rest may survive.

But even more than that there is a sort of irony being presented here, playing on the contrasts I mentioned before. Given what we discover about the 'rituals' of the Blood Drinkers later, they present an interest contrast in and of themselves (which I will discuss later) as well as between themselves and the Novamarines. But overall its passages like this that contribute to making this a better than average SMB novel: Rather than just mindless killfest, we get an analysis and comparison of Chapters, their strengths and flaws, their weaknesses, and an exploration of their tradtiions and mindset especially as how it pertains to their role as 'Defenders of Humanity.'




Page 106
"Switch to echo location," said Voldo. "Sound will be our guide."
Terminator armour has sonar.





Page 108
Voldo sent his map over to that point, a labyrinth of corridors and rooms and crawlspaces and cracks whisked past his eyes. He was just in time to see a small, pulsing red dot, before it moved off the edge of their equipment’s effective range. Five hundred metres, slightly forward, down and to the left of them.
Implied range of auspex.motion sensors.






Page 120
The rapid cracks of storm bolter fire echoed in the chamber. Two bolts shot fractions of a second apart from the weapon’s twin barrels, an unmistakeable pattern of sound; the noise from the report from the gun, the ignition of their ammunition’s propellant, the detonations as they impacted, the sequence repeating rapidly as the weapon discharged dozens of rounds a minute.
Storm bolter rate of fire. What kind we dont know, but its rather slow all told, but it could be analogous to 'sustained' rate of fire, or perhaps even semi-automatic, rather than cyclic





Page 125
He felled another genestealer, a bolt piercing its bulbous skull between the eyes. The mass reactor within detonated the round, spraying the genestealer’s brains to float in the air.
Headsploding a Genestealer is perhaps many times more impressive than a human given the difference in mass and toughness all told.





Page 127
..but when he did manage to land a blow the effects were devastating, the disruption fields surrounding the heavy gauntlet ripping alien flesh apart at the atomic level with a thunderous crack, bursting the creatures like smashed fruit.
Effect of Powerfist - pulping a Stealer probably is worth several grenades easily, but the 'atomic disruption' thing is a bit weird (although hilarious in other ways I suppose.)





Page 137
The worlds they had saved had been reduced, cities ruined, populations decimated. No doubt they would be bled further until the cripplingly slow machinery of the Administratum downgraded their tithe statuses. Caedis knew he could have sped that process, if he had wished.
But he could not. It was too much of a risk.
..
He had no choice. Contacting the Inquisition would have been the most effective, they could have sped up reclassification and lessened the burdens of the affected worlds, and many would say they should have been informed of such a widespread genestealer plague.
Caedis would not, could not, petition the Inquisition or any other Imperial body for aid.
More contrasts. the humane aspect of the Blood Drinkers (like all descended from the Blood Angels) is marred by fear of discovery and distrust (even of Astartes brethern, but especially the Imperium at large) and their own secrets.

We also discover that the Administratum adjusts its tithing according to the ability of the world's ability to produce (although the sluggish nature of the Imperial bureaucracy means this isn't always immediate and probably not amended even if it was) which seems kind of humane, except for two facts: a.) As we learn in Helsreach, downgrading its ability to contribute also degrades the world's importance to the Imperium, and thus the benefits it obtains (partiuclarily protection) from said institution (less important worlds ar emore likely to be written off in times of crisis when prioritizing defense.) Likewise, it is not unheard of for the Administrtum to deliberately strip worlds bare for its purposes, so it may simply choose to ignore downgrading and ismply bleed the world dry and move elsewhere depending on circumstance (probably depending on how likely it is the world could recover or contribute)




Page 145
A particulate fog made up of flakes of corrosion, chunks of metal, spent bolt casings and genestealer remains that scrambled Voldo’s sensorium.
Bolt Casings. HAH





PAge 158
The ship’s prow projected into a large void, the other side of which the fusion reactor of a much larger vessel burned, locked in a perpetual cycle of matter creation and annihilation.
Fusion reactors get alot of mention in here for starships (Esp Imperial), but it seems to be a peculiar description all told. 'annihilation' may suggest something akin to antimatter, but antimatter does not really 'create' matter either. Fusion DOEs annihilate to produce energy (small percentages relative to antimatter) and stars do 'produce' new matter through the fusion process, so this could be describing the KIND of fusion involved. Or it could be we're devolving into 'magic fusion/plasma reactor' tech like we sometimes do the depiction would not be inconsistent with other 'odd' interpretations of plasma/fusion reactor tech (like 13th Legion and 3rd Edition core rules)
Conservatively we'd probably assume its an actual fusion reactor, which probably means the fusion reaction is similar to how stars do it. This is actually a rather good thing, as stars are quite efficient at generating energy (especially if you factor in multiple stages in the cycle assuming they go on at once rather than sequentially.) and if they can bypass the energy requirements somehow it could produce quite alot of energy through 'recycling' fuel (hydrogen burning to helium burning, for example.)
This would also be consistent with the man portable megaton nuke from 'Baneblade' which also suggests 'vastly more efficient than modern' fusion technology, as well as the fact Imperial plasma reactors are more efficient than fission pulse reactors used by the Rak'Gol (already more powerful than real life due to pushing multimegaton starships...) We might also speculate it hints at Ultra-dense deuterium as a Imperail powersource, use of gravity fields to simulate stellar conditions, or perhaps even both. We could also speculate they may have some elements of other 'annihilation' tech involved like antimatter, perhaps to catalyze or push the reaction.





Page 161
"That is a Helios fusion reactor. I have not seen a functioning model for many years. It is thousands of years old, the knowledge to construct such a compact power source lost. Watch!" He pointed, and the Space Marines saw a flare not unlike that spat out by a star spurt from the white core of the reactor. Rather than uncurling from the source as a stellar flare would, the containment fields stretched it into a fat band around the central mass. "That is a malfunction, the machine is compromised."
"The containment fields are not operating at optimum efficiency," said Clastrin.
"What allows energy out, allows matter in. It is likely that the fuel sources have become contaminated with other material, or the reactor would not burn. Such a device operates with near-zero sum inputs, but input is nevertheless required on aeon-scalar periods," said the magos.
"And impure fuel begets poison," said Clastrin.
More on weird Imperial fusion reactions. We learn: Containment fields contain the matter but not the energy. The reactor again indeed seems to have properties akin to a star, bearing out my speculation about 'fusion' reactors before.
The 'near zero sum' stuff I gather means that to produce energy in any quantity, even over a long period of time, it needs at least a small input of fuel (which is why the reaction is inefficient/impure, I gather.) It isnt clear if this is on 'absolute' terms (it needs a ltitle fuel to produce lots of energy) or it is relative to something else. It could be argued either way (since its possible to interpret the space fleet plasma reactor stuff as producing more energy than E=MC^2 somehow, although clearly without totally breaking science in the process.) or it may refer to 'low power' or 'dormant' settings (which would make sense in context.)

It is also interesting to speculate whether the context implies the 'impurities' underwent reaction (with undesirable byproducts) or were simply un-reacted material that got 'contaminated' by the normal reaction in the process (EG irradiated.)




Page 164
One found its mark in the genestealer’s face and it went limp as its head exploded.
Another Genestealer headsplosion.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Space Marine Battles series thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

The other half of Death of Integrity:

Page 173
Clastrin’s forte was machinery, but he knew a little of how his biological gifts functioned, for what was biotechnology but another manifestation of the glorious machine? He knew how the long-chain proteins in the mucous from the Weaver aligned themselves with one another, hardening to cover his body in a waxy coating. He flexed his hand, watching as the second skin wrinkled.
Effect and operation of Mucranoid gland.



Page 182
His mechadendrites snaked over his shoulder, their flexible smart metals allowing them to extend, the dendrites’ diameter thinning as they did so. Their interface tips searched the cavity for an input port – there!
Mechadendrites have smart metal.,




PAge 187
.. the vast bulk of Genthis’s Terminator suit went by on the shoulders of six Novamarines. Two of his own were wounded. A fair exchange for the retrieval of ancient wargear.
Six Tac Marines carrying a suit of Termiantor armour.




Page 195
" Consider this, captain. The hulk held its orbit well under intense bombardment. It is large, but so full of cavities that its overall mass is low. It should have been pushed off course. Surely we should have seen a deterioration in its orbital distance from the sun, but nothing. Secondly, the regularity of its departure from a system, and the arrival of it by so many stars of this class."
Implications about density ASsuming a 100 km diameter sphere we'd get 5e14 m^3 roughly, whilst if we figured an average 6 km long, 1 km tall/wide starship and nearly 400 such, it would be 2e12 M^3. This would imply a density somewhere near uranium 19000 kg*m^3, whilst the other would suggest 72 kg*m^3. Given we're *probably* talking average density it would be closer to the latter calc than the former (40K starships as a rule are not solid lumps of uranium or tungsten) but that would be rather light for a starship (several hundred kg*m^3 or thereabouts seen as 'reliable' starship masses if we go by Atomic Rockets, for example.) Of course this is a lower limit by the quote, still. I should note that even by this density and estimated FFG ship volumes, the mass of the ships is several times greater than FFG lists.
Likewise the bombardment would have been capble of pushing the tens of trillions of tons mass of the hulk out of orbit, which holds some itneresting implications. A ~38 trillion ton hulk bombarded by some dozen starships (2/3 of which are Escorts) over no more than a two day period could impart enough momentum to significantly shift the mass of the hulk's orbit (hundreds of meteres to km/s at least, maybe?) The question is by which mechanism. Its probably not JUST by impact, as even with kinetic impacts there is likely to be some explosive vaporization providing a 'push' If we figure 100 m/s velocity over a 2 day period for those 12 ships would be ~1.83e12 kg*m/s of momentum for sustained (nonstop) bombardment (if its in salvos, like the half hour salvos we note in the earlier book, it would be much higher) Iff we assume a 'velocity' imparted to the debris of 1000 m/s roughly we'd be talking at least 1e15 J of kinetic energy. Howver at least 1.83e9 kg would also be vaporized, so that would probably be (assuming iron) 1.4e16 J at the very least. A kinetic impactor 'pushing' at the debris at such momentum (assuming between 2e6-2e7 m/s velocity as estimated before) would be chucking at least 90-900 tons of projectiles at the target, and the KE would be on the order of 1.8e18-1.8e19 J.
Obviously depending on assumptions and parameters the yields can change, but I figure its a decent lowball for nonstop, close range bombardment with a slight shift, and no refrence to inefficienices.. you get at least megaton to gigaton range bombardments on average for ships.





Page 205
"We are to send nigh two hundred Terminator-armoured brothers into battle. "
..
Ninety-six Terminator suits stood in alcoves within the Armor Armourium, the great arsenal of Novum in Honourum.
Nigh on two hundred terminator armour, ninety six of which are (at least) Novamarine. Since its unliekly the blood Drinkers have more than 100, the max is probably 196, and probably less than that.



Page 207-208
The cup was small, the brothers in multitude. Apparently of worn wood, the cup’s nature was mysterious. Not until the last brother had sipped at the cup and the blessings of Corvo painted on his face with its water did it run dry. There was always precisely enough, no matter if it were a squad blessed or the entire Chapter, although such a gathering had not taken place for twenty centuries. Traditionally guarded by the First Company, the cup was among the most holy of the Chapter’s relics, touched as it was by the lips of every Novamarine from the time of Corvo to the present day.
Cup of Brotherhood, Novamarines Chapter Relic. It never runs out of water, although the source and means of providing it is unspecified. Beyond the technical implications of the relic, the scene is another of those 'contrasts' I keep reiterating, although the contrast is not apparent until we see the Blood Drinkers ritual.






Page 216
A laser beam emitted from the eyes of a soaring angel in the ceiling hit the heart. The smell of roasting meat joined the tang of blood. It abated, as the heart blackened rapidly, then turned white. Fine ash collapsed in on itself. The laser beam cut out.
Laser incinerates Space Marine heart. If we figuer several times more massive than a human one its easily single, perhaps double digit Megajoules for the laser, although what KIND of laser (beyond the fact its a heat ray) we can't say.





Page 216-217
Spoiler
Between them they held a man, not a serf, some poor soul snatched from one recruitment world or another the Blood Drinkers used; kept in stasis, perhaps for centuries, all for this one moment. He was the Chapter’s monstrous price, the blood-tithe.
..
His hands were freed, and then quickly trapped again as he was roughly spread-eagled on the altar. The fear in his eyes told that he knew what the grooves in the stone were for.
..
The man on the altar’s back arched as blades emerged from the altar and penetrated his body at the sites of his arteries. Blood gushed from his bucking body, pouring into the channels and thence in a squared red fall down into the blood drop.
Oh dear. The Blood Drinkers practice blood sacrifice. Not unusual amongst Space Marines really, although Space Marine told a different story (The Blood Drinkers only drinking the blood of fellow Astartes, and not for these reasons.) Whether we consider that a lie or a retcon (given Space Marine's dubious state) I think this is a much bleaker proposition. We also see the 'contrast' I spoke of before, as the ritual for the Novamarines preceded this one. Its quite distinctive in tone, purpose, and visual impact - the Blood Drinkers caring/callous duality is truly brought home in this, especially when we have a much more 'noble but bland' Novamarines ceremony stressing honesty and brotherhood. It really drives home a sense of tragedy where the Blood Drinkers are concerned, especially given what we are to learn later on.




Page 235
"There is something akin to molecular shrapnel generated by the activities of the cutter. A magnetic shield extends around it, to snare these stray atom-clumps and funnel them away safely, but it requires distance to exert itself fully. To be close to the actual blade itself while cutting is underway could be fatal."
Some sort of Admech DAOT digging machine or something. creates 'molecular' shrapnel. They use it to drill a hole into the hulk.




Page 236
The beam cut out. A black rectangular hole had been made in the hulk’s skin, leading down. The edges of it glowed faintly.
..
"...indeed it operates on similar principles to the disruption fields built into your power weapons. But the manner in which the device attains the projection of the field forwards, the maintenance of its coherency so far out from the projectors, the safe exhaust of the excess energy generated as the matter is annihilated, the overall magnitude of the field, the smooth manner of its disintegration… "
A weaponzied powerfield, basically, as a cutting beam. Much like Vortex weaponry, the 'beam' variant is unheard of for the 'current' Imperium, although we know of 'projectile' equipped versions (like the mole mortar) along with various power weapons (powerfists, power swords, etc.) All lost tech basically.
The other interesting/odd bit is how the disruption affect is alluded to be some sort of energy-producing 'matter annihilation' effect, not unlike a conversion beamer. That is new, as most are just either thermal weapons, or some weird disintegration ray/explosive effect. It suggests yet another possible 'mechanism' (a weaponized one at that) for matter/energy conversion.



Page 241
...the crackling bangs of power fist energy fields annihilating matter, the screams of genestealers.
Given the context of the digging tool mentioned previously, the 'annihilating matter' part is pretty amusing.





Page 254
Holos’s skin’s glands were atrophied, many of his pores closed. This change to the epidermis was not one originally sought by the Emperor when he crafted the gene-seed of the Adeptus Astartes. It was a mutation of the Weaver, the mucranoid gland, unique to the Blood Drinkers, turning a gift that should have helped to a hindrance. There was no treating it, it was their own particular quirk of the Flaw. Lacking sebum as well as sweat, Holos’s brothers all bore its mark; the dry, insufficiently nourished skin of the Blood Drinkers.
Peculiar mutation of Blood Drinkers genetics.





Page 269
At site Alpha, a large laser weapon stood poised to burn its way through one hundred and fifty metres of hulk. At Beta, shaped charges were attached to the skin of the hulk, only a metre or so from the roosting genestealers on the other side. And so on, each breaching method designed for its particular spot on the agglomeration’s surface, each one with the exact same purpose in mind – to rupture the hulk and vent the atmosphere of the roosts into space.
..
At five places, three differing methods of breaching the hulk were activated. The explosives were the most rapid. Sheets of metal peeled away in short-lived fire bursts and wheeled into space. Then the laser-cut hull sections.
Laser weapon of unnknwon type (except it seems fairly portable, or at least it can be eaisly set up in a set location in a relatively short period of time) can penetrate 150m of hulk hull to cut out a door of unspecified size. Mechanism and size of cut is not known, duration seems relatively short (matter of seconds, compared to the detonations perhaps) With a 'blaster' style lazer any damage I get is well into the high Gigajoule/low terajoule range per 'shot' and is creating rather large (8+m) sized holes in the target Indeed for a 'real' laser with an aspect ratio no greater than 30 the diameter would be no greater than 5 m and would still be within the Terajoule range.
A heat ray may or may not be less energetic depending on 'area' affected. A rather narrow 2 cm diameter beam 150 m deep through iron (melting) would be 'only' 567 GJ for example (ignoring inefficiencies) whislt if it was a mm diameter 'cut' it could easily melt only a few MJ. Of course those mm pulses would be repeated many times more than likely (hundreds if not thousands) to 'cut' a gap through. Overall it seems rather hard to avoid arguing a yield somewhere in the gigajoule to terajoule range at least. whilst larger heat ray 'diameter's would lead to correspondingly huger calcs.




Page 271
Nine storm bolters and two assault cannons gave voice. The howl of the wind was lost under a storm of explosions. A swathe of genestealers were cut down, falling as crops fall before the harvester. Craters the size of men’s heads marred their exoskeletons, their innards burst outwards as if as desperate to escape as the genestealers were. Lines of bright fire stabbed out from the assault cannons..
Effect of bolter fire blasting head sized craters in chitin (much more impressive than in flesh, and probably many more times powerful yet again than merely headsploding a normal human.)




Page 281
Their assault cannons whined as they rotated up to firing speed, then fire blazed from them. Their multiple barrels blurred as they spat hundreds of rounds a minute into the genestealers. The Terminators swept their guns to the left and then to the right, filling the corridor with depleted uranium bullets.
Assault cannon in action.






Page 285
Holos’s mouth was dry as dust. His suit should have kept him hydrated, recycling the excreta of his body and injecting it back into him in the form of nutrient-rich liquid.
space Marine armour (power armour or Terminator armour or both, context isn't quite clear) has a recycling feature.






Page 297
...Astomar sent a burst of promethium down one corridor, and then the other. The maximum range of his heavy flamer was about thirty metres..
Range of Heavy Flamer.






Page 308
There was something it fled, not from fear, but from instinct. Guinian dared to look beyond. From its mind weak tendrils reached outward, touching upon all the broods of genestealer which it had created across space. Beyond, a greater network still, linking it to other minds, faint presences far away, but all as particular, as featureless in their singular purpose.
Behind that… Guinian could never describe it. A mass. A blank space in the empyrean, a terror. A zone where the roiling variety of the immaterium had ceased to be. A shadow in the warp, distant yet, but imminent.
Death of Integrity takes place some 2000 years before the 'current' storyline, so the threat of the Tyranids and their connection to the Genestealers is all but unknown. That there is a multi-system 'connection' between different genestealer 'tribes/cults/factions' is interesting, and perhaps reinforces their idependent 'hive mind' gestalt separate from the larger hive mind being significant. sa well as providing a network of navigation beacons for the Tyranids to operate by.






Page 338
The tech-priests had cut many holes into the sides of the large alien ship, from where they carried a great number of technological prizes. From the amount of praise being offered to the Omnissiah, Galt guessed that the artefacts were of high value.
"Xenos technology," said Plosk disparagingly, "but valuable nonetheless."
AdMech recovering xenos technology.




Page 346
The greater part of the spaceship was buried in the mass of debris, but the side of it presented to them was undamaged by time or the shifting crush of the agglomeration. His sensorium could not penetrate its gleaming hull, but Galt estimated it to be around three hundred metres long, small by Imperial standards. It was clean of line and unembellished, which made the craft appear strange to Galt’s eyes.
DaoT starship, smaller than Imperial equivalents, although as we learn it has powerful weapons as well as warp drive.




Page 348
"‘Lord Plosk has searched the length and breadth of this galaxy for four hundred years, gathering the lore that led us to this momentous point in time."
400 year old Techpriest.




Page 356-357 Spoiler
He got a fleeting impression of a pair of heavy heads moving on sinuous necks before his vision blurred, disarmed by the light around the figure.
..
"I told him to embrace change."
"Embrace it!" said the other voice.
"Only through change can one survive, only through evolution is there life. Your gene-seed is corrupt, you are changing. You try to deny it, and that is why you were dying. But to embrace it… Ah!"
"To embrace change is to live," said the thing’s other voice. "Reject it and die."
Are we surprised that the 'angel' that supposedly saved the Blood Drinkers is apparently a Daemon of Tzeentch? Specifically the implication or so I hear is that this is Kairos Fateweaver, but its not obvious about that and I wouldn' tjust take that for true, although its clearly a minion of Tzeentch either way.
Context: Holos and the Reclusiarch of the Blood Drinkers willingly keep this secret that they made a deal with a Daemon for the blood ritual that 'protects' the blood Drinkers from their genetic Curse (although the quality of that protection for what it costs, properly Tzeentchian as it is, is of dubious value.) in exchange for modifying the visions of certain Blood Drinkers over the centurie. Those so' 'altered', like Caedis, experience a vision different form what most Blood Angels derived Astartes do (rather than Sanguinius, they see Holos and the history leading up to this 'deal.') The Daemon then proposes a deal to the afflicted - they either accept and damn their chapter to Chaos, or they refuse and suffer. Thus far, everyone has refused, but its alleged that all it takes is one to damn the whole Chapter, and that it is inevitable. Blah blah.
As falls and horrible secrets go, its not a completely original one but it is a nice touch. It plays on alot of the old Second edition bleak/hopeful aspects tied to the Blood Angels themselves and lends a certain tragic and horrifying character to the Chapter that is different from other Blood Angels descendants (like the Flesh Tearers or Lamentes.) The interesting thing is that the Blood Drinkers 'plot' closely echoes the Soul Drinkers in many respects (manipulation towards Chaos by a daemon of Tzeentch, plots, etc.) but unlike the Soul Drinkers the planning and execution of the idea is both believable and well done, so it lacks the absurdity that the Soul Drinkers had. This is how Counter should have done it, really.




Page 371
"It will extrude in the same manner as the hull repairs itself, the metal is a semi-liquid under the influence of complex magnetic fields and is backed up by a more mundane doorway should those fail. I–"
Hull nature adn composition of DAoT doors and hulls. Seem to be very reformable, and can heal damag.




Page 371
The tech-priests had only seven of their dozen mind-wiped servants remaining: two armed with multi-meltas, three with heavy bolters, and two of their data-savants. The remains of a genestealer which had killed a servitor lay next to it, the top half of it vaporised by a multi-melta.
150 kg of Stealer vaporized.. hundreds of MJ at least.





PAge 382
Access codes and soft data programming culled from across the galaxy over three human lifetimes unwound themselves from heavily protected memplants within his augmented brain..
Recall the Magos is over 400 years old - that implies that 40K humans (or at least some) live on average some 130 years potentially.




Page 389
One of Plosk’s servitors rotated and pointed its multi-melta at Brother Militor. With a roar of shimmering, superheated atmosphere, the fusion beam hit the Space Marine square on. The Terminator was reduced to scalding vapour.
..
This time Brother-Sergeant Sandamael died. His plate withstood the beam for a second, then his torso was vaporised.
Multimelta vaporizes Terminators, although the beam briefly resists in the second case any only vaporises the torso. Assuming 1000 kg and iron, we're talking 7 GJ or so to vaporize in the first case at least.
Also note how melta weapons described as fusion beams.




Page 389 Spoiler
"I want to be away from this warp-poisoned galaxy. The universe is infinite. I would go elsewhere before the wounds of space-time here present consume all creation.."
..
"I spurned cruelty," it said. "But you have taught me the meaning and utility of wickedness. Mankind has become sick, and will die as all sick things die.."
Context: Aforementioned DAoT starship has an AI (big surprise) which we know is hardly unusual. Caught up in temporal flux in the warp, the ship gets cast out and the captain is eventually tortured and killed as a 'heretic' when discovering the Imperium. Ship gets caught in the middle of a Space Hulk, and used the hulk as bait to refuel itself and prepare to leave the galaxy. Much of the context of the story is 'mad AI' of course, but there is a fair bit of 'Humanity has fallen and degenerated far from what it was, and is doomed to be consumed by the warp.' Which is interesting given the involvement of Tzeentch in this plot. In any case, the AI is an interesting plot twist given how arrogant and secretive the AdMech was here, how certain of their goal and their moral (divine) right.. only to have the prize throw that all back into their face and scorn them. It parallels the revelations for Caedis and the Blood Drinkers quite nicely as well, I think.

Its interesting to contrast this point of view of the Imperium relative to the Dark Age, and contrast it with what Gaunt and company went through in First and Only, I think.



Page 393
"Primary weapons activated. Secondary weapons activated. Main drive online. Warp engines online."
..
A howling moan built, mighty energies that would not be constrained. A roar shuddered the vessel from one end to the other. The detritus to the fore was annihilated. On the greater part of the image, a beam of bright energy crossed the stars, stabbing out at the Mechanicus’ vessel.
On the close-up of the Excommentum Incursus, they watched as the beam hit the vessel full amidships. Void shields flared as they rapidly collapsed one after the other, the beam punching through to the hull. Plating and armour were vaporised. The beam cut off, leaving the Excommentum Incursus with a gaping hole in its side, edges white hot.
Recall that early in the novel the AdMech ship had shrugged off weapons fire (multi-gigaton bombardment cannon and such) without harm from the Space Marine ships, yet this DAoT ship, many times smaller than a Strike cruiser, effortlessly punches through. Interesting comparison, really.




Page 397-399
The evacuation must have finished. The last transports were fleeing across the night when the fleet opened up. The hulk shuddered under the impact of lava bombs, missiles, cannon rounds and energy beams.
..
"How predictable," said the Spirit of Eternity. "How very predictable."
"Seven minutes to warp translation," said the ship’s secondary voice.
The spirit of the vessel turned its attentions from the fleet to the men on the bridge. "Very soon your friends out there will have blasted enough of the cursed accretions free from my hull that I will be able to fly once again. "
...
"Six minutes to warp translation."
The vessel’s warp engines were powering up. The ship vibrated under Galt’s boots.
..
"Five minutes until warp translation."
..
The entire hulk was shaking under the fury of the Space Marine bombardment.
...
"Four minutes to warp translation."
Fleet bombards space hulk over a matter of minutes from a stated distance of at least 'several hundred thousand kilmoetres away' as mentioned later. At least several volleys (2-3) implies 3-4 minutes tops, and quite probably less than that. One interpretation - a bombardment between six and five minutes) suggests possibly a minute or less definitely. If we figure 300-400 thousand km and 1-4 minutes we get velocities of at least 1250 km/s to 6667 km/s. The lower end is closer to the stated torpedo speeds, so probably is very conservative. For a 2 ton shell you would get some 374 kilotons of KE, whilst a 60 ton shell at the other velocity would be some 319 megatons of KE.




Page 402
"Mastrik, signal the fleet, open up with everything we have. Put a full spread of cyclonic torpedoes into that hulk, I want it destroyed. Target the following coordinates."
Using cyclonics on the Space hulk and the DAoT starship within.


Page 402
Galt hurried from the teleport room; one of fifteen on the teleport deck, the rest of that level of the ship taken up by the immense power relays the devices required. He took a narrow tunnel that led through the ship’s two dozen metre thick armour, to a fragile observation cupola attached to the surface of the hull.
Thickness of battle barge armor.



Page 402-403
Huge chunks of the hulk had broken away and were wheeling into the sun. The main part had broken into two large pieces that glittered on their night side with the repeated impact of starship ordnance. It would not last long.
Novum in Honourum shook as its guns worked. There was a keening shriek as the torpedo bays discharged their load. They swerved to port and streaked toward the hulk. He could see another spread racing in from the Lux Rubrum.
The other guns continued to fire. It was several hundred thousand kilometres to the target, so the explosions he was watching were of rounds launched minutes ago.
STated range for bombardment. We dont know if the ships have held stead yor have been getting closer, so its an approximate range, but it probably suits the earlier calcs (as mentioned.) It also sets a benchmark for the torpedoes, as we noted (previously) there is no more than 4 minutes left before warp translation.
It implies that it does take 'minutes' for the ordnance to travel over the 'several hundred thousand kilometres' however that is defined, so if we figure less than 3 minutes have passed up to this point (4 minutes left) and at leats two salvos, thats probably a least 1.5-2 minutes per volley, roughly. since I'm lazy I googled the definition of several and it comes up 'more than two or three but not many' so we might figure at least 300,000-400,000 km range for the shells in about 90-120 seconds tops, which is between 2500-4445 km/s at least. If the range is greater (possible) or the time lower (also possible - we dont know how many bombardments) we could be getting higher velocities. Mind you if the times stay higher at 'several minutes' for launching and the light just reaches him, the arugment owuld probably be for greater ranges. (for example at 1 million km, 2 minutes propogation is a bit over 8300 km/s.) Figure a 3 ton macroshell at 2500 km/s and that would have a little over 2 megatons of KE. A 60 ton shell at 8000 km/s would be some 458 megatons, by contrast. :)
Velocity wise these ARE significantly slower than the bombardment cannon rounds and the implied macroshell velocities before, but its not, strictly speaking, wholly impossible either. That said, the longer the shells take in the timeframe, the less time the torpedoes can take to cross that same distance, and they would enforce a lower limit on shell velocity anyhow (torpedoes are slower than macroshells, after all.) So as lower limits go it doesn't seem to make a huge difference.





Page 403
The cyclonic torpedoes rushed towards their target.
Too late.
There was the telltale flash of translation, the visual fallout from the warping of time and space. A dart of metal that could only have been the Spirit of Eternity separated from the hulk and collapsed into itself, folding into the unnatural geometries of the empyrean.
...
The torpedoes reached the remainder of the hulk. They exploded with astonishing violence, focussed fission blasts in a tight spread. For a moment, their nuclear fires outshone those of the sun, causing Galt’s visor to darken almost to black.
First: Cyclonic torpedoes operating on 'fission' reaction. They're more destructive than regular weapons and torpedoes (run by 'fusion' reactors mind) so we're getting more nuclear weirdness described. Moreover they're shaped charges and again being used on a spaceborne target (like in Ravenwing, Bleeding Chalice, Night Lords Trilogy, hinted at in Mark of Calth, etc.)
Second: the cyclonics cover 'several hundred thousand kilometres' in about 4 minutes. at the same 300-400 thousand km from before we get between 1,250-1,667 km/s torpedo velocity. Which again is a lower limit but also sets a definite lower limit on macroshell velocity as mentioned previously.
KE for a torpedo at 1250-1700 km/s, assuming between 100-2000 tons (all estimated torpedo masses from varied anthologies) would yield 18-19 megatons of KE at least and 690 megatons at the other end.
For the sake of argument, if the cyclonics vaporized over 60% of the 38 trillion ton hulk and it was iron, you could figure some 41.5 teratons of energy at least. Given that multi gigaton bombardment cannon shells did not significantly harm the structure (despite sustained/repeated bombardments, nevermidn the broadside strikes) it is unlikely to be massively less than this (high gigaton/low teraton at least). If we figure a hundred or so cyclonics at least (12 ships with around 6 torpedo tubes each) each torp would pack 415 gigatons approximately. Which is not unlikely for cyclonics given all the other feats we've seen from them (there's a reason they're exterminatus weapons after all) but given the weird fission we also cannot easily say where the energy is coming from (matter to energy of the target structure is quite within the means of cyclonics after all, but so is brute force plasma/radiation munitions.)




Page 411
The document had been well-penned, but was faded with age despite the lauded qualities of the vault. Attempts had been made to mimic the hyperlink-heavy styles of true data-slate archiving, but of course the different coloured entries were just that; they had no functionality, a product of blind transcription by an ignorant mind.
Dataslate 'archiving' involves hyperlinks :P





Page 412
A kill ratio of over 53:1 was nevertheless achieved, and data and artefacts retrieved from the hulk by attached members of Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator fleet led by Excommentum Incursus under High Lord Magos Explorator Plosk proved rich in STC materials.
..
In gratitude, the Adepts of Mars presented both Chapters with new strike cruisers on the anniversary of Lord Caedis’s death, thirty standard years later.
53:1 Kill ratio against stealers on Death of Integrity, and 30 years to make a strike cruiser.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Space Marine Battles series thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

return to SMB with 'Malodrax' by Ben Counter. Its a continuation of 'Counter telling Imperial Fists and Lysander stories' and I have to say that its comparatively better than Soul drinkers (consistently so), althoguh it doesnt' always reach the level of enjoyment I had with Gray Knights. In alot of ways I think he aimed for a 'Gray Knights' type story and sort of tried to tie it into Seventh Retribution, but coudln't quite pull off the pacing. This book did drag a bit for a Space Marine BATTLES story insofar as the action bits go, and it reads alot more like he wanted to do a sequel to 'Daemon World' (or maybe its just Ben Counter and his love of writing Chaos.) But its the non-fighting stuff where (for me) anything interesting remained really.

Part 1

Page 10
The Breaker’s bridge was a gloomy and arcane place, where the clockwork of the ancient difference engines and cogitator arrays were laid open, thousands of cogs and pistons chittering away in a constant background whisper. Bridge officers read the topography of space around the ship from reams of numbers spat out in loops of parchment from the cogitators, or fed punchcards into the command helms to coax tiny adjustments from the Breaker’s thrusters. The Malodracian Reef was hidden from them outside the hull, but it was picked out in zeros and ones, a terrible equation that changed even as it was solved. Upwards of fifty navigation crew were on duty for the approach through the reef, every one terrified.
The ship lurched. Some of the crew were thrown to the deck. Punchcards slewed across the floor and loose cogs pinged free.
Ben Counter's quirky technology strikes again! I've commented/complained about this in the past, but to be fair I can't really blame him for doing it. It is kind of attractive in a quirky way and we have all those authors who decide its great to shovel promethium int o plasma reactors too soo...

Also for context this is a Difference engine. Whether this is the primary system or a backup or whatever will probably depend on how charitable (or cynical) you feel towards 40K in general. :P



PAge 11
Lysander’s bolter was slung over one shoulder. Even in the short time he had spent back with the Imperial Fists he had acquired a custom model, with an enhanced scope array and an enlarged box magazine.
Even with his current status returned to the Fists, he has a specialer than normal bolter :P



Page 13
The bridge crew responded to the arguing cogitators, typing on valve-operated keyboards as cumbersome as church organs. Brass compasses skittered across diagrams of the ship and her engine arrays. A small body of crewmen were hurtling through calculations on abacuses with beads of ivory and jet.
More of the sophisticated navigational systems onboard the starship :P We've doubled down by including abacuses now too :P



Page 14
The Breaker was an old ship, a noble ship, her hull laid down in the fifth millennium after the ascension of the Emperor to the Golden Throne. Shipwrights of the forge-world Ruo’s Hope had built into her hull and bulkheads strands of psychoactive metals, the secrets of their alloys long since lost, which were to the daemon and the spirit of the warp like red-hot wires that burned and dismembered. Clerics of the Imperial Creed had blessed her, and bathed the bolts of her construction in vats of consecrated machine oil. The Librarians of the Imperial Fists had reinforced her further with wards and protective circles of ancient and arcane origin, which forbade entry to beings of the warp.
Older is better reference, and more anti-daemon protective measures utilised in starship construction. At least for the really good stuff, and its not unlike the stuff Grey Knights do. So it may not be totally 'rare/precious' losttech psychic defenes.



Page 20-23
A dozen treatment slabs were laid out in the apothecarion. Autosurgeons hung from the ceiling and glass cylinders of artificial organs and rolls of synthetic skin lined the walls. Medicae-servitors, their metal casings adorned with scalpel-tipped manipulators, were parked at recharging stations in the corners of the room. A chart of a Space Marine’s body, including the many additional organs that helped turn a man into one of the Adeptus Astartes, adorned the ceiling like a fresco in a cathedral, picked out in ivory and silver.
..
Kaderic crashed through one of the organ cylinders, falling to the ground in a heap of shattered glass and torn artificial flesh.
..
Behind her was a Space Marine, stripped of his armour and wearing the simple half-robes of an apothecarion patient. His skin had been dark, but now it was a patchwork of new scars and synthetic skin.
Whilst it might refer to 'implants' for Space Marines, the synthetic skin and artificial organs seem to be quasi-organic analogues rather than just Space Marine implants or augmetics. again sort of a throwbck to Ian Watson and Lexandro's replacement hand.



PAge 26
Usually the crew of the Breaker worked in two shifts, changing every fourteen hours. For the next twenty hours both shifts were awake and at station, guiding the Breaker around the Red Widow’s lair of treacherous orbital currents and jagged masses of coral.
Work schedule aboard an Imperial Fists strike cruiser.



Page 26-27
In the new quiet that had fallen on the ship, Chaplain Lycaon was able to return to his art. In his fingers was a small piece of bone, and in his other hand a miniature drill with which he was inscribing illustrations onto the bone. Around him were mounted the arms and armour of a senior Chaplain of the Imperial Fists, a tattered banner stained with smoke from an old battlefield, shelves of books of battle-lore and a polished stone Crux Terminatus mounted on the wall like a plaque. His armour, painted in the black of a Chaplain instead of the gold of an Imperial Fist, hung from a rack against the wall.
...
The Chaplain’s hands were those of a Space Marine, huge and powerful even without gauntlets, but he worked with the fine dexterity of a watchmaker.
"Dorn himself scrimshawed the bones of the dead," said Lycaon at length. "He wrote that pursuits such as these separate us from other soldiers. Any savage can swing a club or fire a gun. But a Space Marine is better than that. He can turn his mind inwards, and channel what lies there into focus as well as rage."
Scrimshawing is back in force with the Fists. Another nod of the head to Ian Watson. more than that, we're getting tie-ins with the 'Imperial Fists as thinkers' aspect of their nature as well, which is hardly a bad thing.



Page 33
The ship was old indeed. It still bore the patina of Mars, deep red speckles on the blueish steel of her bulkheads and decks. Cold vapour clung to the floors and rippled down the walls. The archeotech engines, supplied by plasma reactors more efficient than any made for eight thousand years, required a deep chill to function and the whole ship was refrigerated.
Lysander's original STrike cruiser (Shield of Valour, lost over Malodrax) wsa of the 'older is better' school of ship design. Curiously this design suggests the reactors and engines are separate devices, rather than others which imply the reactors/engines are virtually the same. This could be a variation (redundancy measure, or perhaps supplementary power - the starship analogue to torpedoes having both propulsion and a warheads that contribute to destructive effects) or it may be more of its 'OLDER IS BETTER' magic.



Page 34-35
"Our mission objective is the extinction of a species. The Vorel are an immediate threat to the settlements of the Eastern Fringe and the only response the human race can make is to revoke their existence. "
..
They had studied the Vorel during the two months they had travelled through the warp on the Shield of Valour.
We know from the 'Sentinels of Terra' supplement that the Phalanx is normally stationed at Terra, likely meaning that the fists travelled from Segmentum Solar to the Eastern Fringe, which would be some 60K light years or so, give or take. even straight line, uninterrupted travel, that would probably be a good 360,000c. Although whether that is from their POV or realspace (and what dilation there would be if any) is up for debate.



Page 38
The next impact threw Lysander off his feet. Rogal Dorn fell too, the golden statue snapping off at the ankles and crashing into the front rows of the cathedral’s pews. Slabs fell from the ceiling, the artificial stone falling away to reveal the chill steel of the ship’s structure.
"Langeloc!" yelled Lysander into the vox.
"That was a lance strike,"
Lance strike on the Shield of Valour is powerful enough to impart physical momentum to those inside it - presumably overcoming the artificial gravity fields/inertial dampers in the process. Calcing out how powerful this is, however, is something I could only begin to guess at. If we figured a few m/s for a 30 megaton strike cruiser and assume an iron composition we could make a guess.. The speed of sound in Iron is 5 km/s. If we assume it was explosive vaporization that shoves it off course we might guess at maybe tens or hundreds of terajoules at a minimum. Hardly GIGATONS or even MEGATONS but its not beyond the range of possible values for 40k weaponry either, is it?



PAge 39
The engines were one of the principal weaknesses of the Shield of Valour in the event of a boarding, for its plasma reactors were an eminently sabotagable design that could be the target of a suicidal boarding party. Enough damage to the reactors or their coolant systems could cause them to breach and vaporise half the ship. Lysander might be the commander of this mission but when the ship came under attack he and his command squad had their defensive duties just like everyone else.
Its interesting/peculiar that the engines/reactors if sabotages would only 'vaporize' half the ship. Is this some sort of safety/preventative measure to limit damage (or preserve part of the ship's tech or crew?) Usually when we've seen catastrophic explosions like that (some of them in fact from reactor or negine overloads) they vape the whole ship. Go figure, although its from their finicky nature and overheating/overloading apparently, rather than ship blowing up violently (because the fuel is volatile, or the reactor has a hole punched in it, or whatever.)
In any case if vaporization is literal, and again we assume a 30 megaton iron starship it would be on the order of e17 joules of energy released, at least. Now this doesn't tell us timeframe whether this reflects 'instant' output of reactors or an output over a unspecified period of time, but the context and description suggests a very short timeframe if not instant reactor output, at least. And it can be said that the calc is within the rough magnitude of estimates for 40K firepower by FFG numbers, anyhow.



Page 41
The concept of attacking another ship in the warp was as impossible to comprehend as the warp itself. Time and space did not mean in the warp what they meant in reality – that was why the warp could be used for faster-than-light travel in the first place. But legends were passed between the old guard of the space lanes of opponents who would try just that, to dive from the warp’s black maelstrom to maul their prey when they were most vulnerable.
As impossible as it was, as insane as anyone attempting it had to be, that was happening to the Shield of Valour.
Which is interesting given we've had examples of this in fact happening (Execution Hour, anyone?) Although it may reflect perhaps that someone only as illogical as Chaos (with daemonic/sorcerous aid or patronage) could possibly hope to achieve this, and no 'normal' foe could do so (EG its Impossible for the Imperium or anyone without wapr magic on their side, basically.)

Still you'd think the Fists and other naval crewers would be familiar with it or have heard it being done successfully, unless the 'legends' aspect hints at what happened in Execution Hour was in fact an anomaly (always possible, although the short combat ranges given in the novel sort of suggest there are rules and doctrine sin place for warp combat.)



Page 41-42
The enemy was a tarnished, age-pitted shark, its long nose knife-like as it sliced through the thunderheads of the warp and broke through the Geller field envelope around the Shield of Valour. The enemy ship was longer than the Shield but narrower, a sleek, acute-angled predator. Its flanks were serrated with sloping banks of gun batteries. Dorsal vanes crackled with power, drawing in the surrounding warp energies to power the nova cannon slung beneath the ship’s armoured prow.
..
The Imperium’s older battleships had machine-spirits that remembered old foes. The Shield of Valour was one of them. It recognised that profile, the prow coolant vents like narrowed eyes, the triangular flare of its stern engines like the fins of an undersea predator. It was known as the Carnage, and the Imperial Fists fleet had a particular reason to hate it.
The Carnage, an Iron Warriors starship. Presumably of similar class (just different shape) as the Shield. Also don't get too excited about the Nova cannon, its explicitly mentioned as a funky warp weapon.

Also, we learn again that at least some Imperium starships (the old ones, unsurprisingly) have some measure of awareness or memory, not unlike perhaps a Titan. Which fits in perfectly with each ship having a soul/personality, at least. Whether 'battleship' is literal in this context or not is up for debate (its talking about Imperiums 'oldest battleships', but the implication is that the Shield of valour is also a battleship even though its a strike cruiser.)

Also the newer is better bit again, older ships have more sentient machine spirits than newer (less advanced.) ones.



Page 42
The rear-firing guns of the Shield opened up, spraying the prow of the Carnage with enough fire to shred a smaller ship. The Carnage rode the fire, turning the denser armour on the side of its prow to absorb the worst of it. Explosions stripped off sheets of armour, throwing out a glittering cloud of debris.
Strike cruiser with aft-aimed guns, which is perhaps a rarity on Imperial starships. Even more, its got enough firepower to at least take out a smaller ship (escort?) in a short period of time.

Why the sides of the prow are denser than the front, I have no fucking clue. I also have to wonder if the 'sheets of armour' peeling off is meant to be some sort of ablative/reactive armor.



Page 42
The Shield responded, venting a great cloud of frozen gas from its coolant systems to lend strength to the thrusters that bucked its stern upwards, bringing the engines out of the firing arc.
The nova cannon fired. The dense yellow-white beam, as hot as the heart of a star, hit a glancing strike against the Shield’s stern. In the void it would have been silent, but in the warp the sound was a very human scream, a sound of anger and jubilation, as if the Carnage were crying out in ecstasy to see such destruction brought to bear.
If they're using ejected coolant to improve accel, that probably owuld suggest they're not pulling huge accels (whether this is damage, context, or whatever, we don't know, but we're probably not pulling HUNDREDS of gees unless we're invoking mass lightening too.. whcih is always a possibility :P) Really it could be argued multiple ways depending on what evidence you use (proof the single digit gees in Rogue trader RPG are true, proof that they use mass lightening on starships - even in certain combat situations, etc.)

Of course at the same time thise is manuvering thrusters, and we already know those are less poweful than the main thrusters too, so there is that point. This could also just reflect the Shield having sluggish manueveriability but good straight line accel (another interpretation, in other words.)

Also daemon nov acannon is a beam weapon that is 'hot as a star's heart' meaning probably millions of degrees. Unsurprisingly, either due to energy or warp magic, it does damage.

Page 42
The two ships were within close range now, within the kill-distance of their defensive guns. Prow-mounted gun batteries opened up on the Carnage, peppering the stern of the Shield with explosive rounds that ripped through the sections exposed by the glancing nova strike. Clouds of vapour and flame sprayed from the gashes, throwing out fountains of debris that burned brightly for split seconds in the void within the Geller field. The Shield’s turret-mounted guns replied, everything sternwards of the ship’s midpoint blazing directly into the prow of the Carnage.
The Carnage did not care. She was built for murder up close.


Page 43-44
Every thruster on the Shield fired at once, tearing the ship around to bring herself out of the cannon’s arc. Debris rained against her, secondary explosions rippling through her hull. The Shield’s armaments were broadside laser batteries and torpedo arrays, and with a single decent broadside volley she could knock her assailant spinning into the warp, lost and out of control. It was her one chance, but thousands of years of naval doctrine said it would work.
The nova cannon charged. Another thirty seconds and the Shield’s broadside would be unleashed, and even the armoured hull of the Carnage would be blistered and torn by the thousands of impacts. Those thirty seconds never happened as the nova cannon fired again.
This shot was not glancing. It hit the Shield amidships, spitting her through on a bright lance of incandescent fire.
..
...a hundred battles of instinct told him the damage was massive and catastrophic. It was a crippling shot, spearing the Shield right through and catching Throne knew what critical systems in its path.
If the nova cannon hits them head on (even as magic warp damage) its serious damage as it punches straight through the vitals, crippling the ship. Vital systems seem to be protected in the core of the ship, beneath all the decking and armor and hull layers and all that stuff. again pointing to elements about ship construction and internal/external protection schemes.

Also 30 seconds or so (at least) to come aorund for broadside strike - estimate maybe around a 90 degree or so turn - for either ship really. call it couple degrees per second.

Also, Fists strike cruiser can unleash a interesting broadside. For one thing, no cannons, it has laser turrets (That have wide fire arcs - can fire forwards, sides, and even at least partly towards the rear.. on both flanks) as well as torpedoes (broadside mounts again rather than just prow.) Whats more, they launch THOUSANDS of shots. Even if they have dozens or hundreds of guns, thats dozens/hundreds of shots per gun (not including torpedoes) which is alot of laser fire. although they coul dhave thousands of guns too (dark adeptus, although that was supposedly an 'over-gunned' cruiser.)

The further interesting thing is to wonder why they fire so many shots. As discussed before 40K warfare does seem to expend lots of energy sometimes to gain a few hits - submunition torpedoes, omnidirectional explosions and proximity hits (macro shells), so firing large number of laser shots to cover a volume makes sense in that respect. Heck macro shells could even do shotgun kinetic submunitions (We saw something akin to that in 'Anicent History' short story by Andy Chambers.)

The interesting thing about stuff like multiple 'shotgun' barrages like this to blanket atn area is that it suggests 40K starships can generate huge YIELDS, but their actual durability may be a fraction of what the yields imply - not unlike Andromedaverse and Honorverse starships. The active defenses and combat dynamics mean only a small percentage of hits actually land, and the ships durability may actually be much lower. Which in turn coudl explain cases where close range combats are not hours long brutal affairs but minutes or seconds long slugfests (EG sabbat martyr for example.)

You could have examples where, a vastly weaker enemy can bypass the active defneses somehow or fight in a differnet style and exploit those weaknesses.. and despite GIGATONS of firepower oculd actually threaten a 40K ship even if they have substnatially lower firepower.


Page 45
A Space Marine, however, was made for them – in once sense literally, for ship-to-ship combat was one of the roles the Emperor himself had in mind when he created the first generations of Space Marines for the Great Crusade.
Which makes alot of sense. Space marine capabilities are actually optimized for close quarters and confined spaces - such as onboard ship or inside buildings - as opposed to open battlefields.



Page 45-46
The Shield of Valour was battered and bloodied, but she was not dead yet. She was made of old stuff, structures and systems laid down in the millennia directly following the Horus Heresy, when the most powerful secrets of ship design had yet to be lost to time and ignorance. Her broadside guns, though off-centre of their target, blasted a fearsome volley into the forward sections of the Carnage, stripping away more hull armour and exposing silvery wounds underneath, where the spaces between hull layers were exposed. Raw, like bones with the skin stripped away..
Several points. Obvious point is the 'OLDER IS BETTER' in ship tech, which doesn't need further belabouring beyond mentioning it and that they could build better ships in the Heresy. Secondly, the interesting point is the ACTUAL ship design. Hull layers, with spacing.. and external armour.. its sort of an implication, I think that they may not slap all the armor just on the outside of the ship, at least not equally in all places (all or nothing armoring?) But quite liekly they have armor 'layers' internally (like WW1 protected cruisers as well as armoured cruisers) which probably is as much damage mitigation as it is armoring. So even if the hull is breached in some places it can limit how much devastation is done internally. And many 40K ships, as I've noted can take bad hull damage and still remain quite combat effective.




Page 46-47
Its main weapon, the one with which it sought to bring the Shield to heel, was not a gun or a torpedo tube at all. It lay deep inside the spaceship, in the minds of the thousands of souls who made up its crew.
As one, a sacrifice was torn from their minds. Their memories, their loves and hates, the countless layers of their personalities, pledged to the dark gods of the Carnage’s masters. Five thousand cultists crewed the Carnage, with five thousand stories of sorrow, desperation and the promise of salvation. They had given everything they had to the gods to whom they had turned in their bleakest moments and pledged everything that was left, but none of them had truly understood what that meant. The sacrifice of their minds was guzzled up by the powers of the warp, syphoned through the ship’s archeotech according to pledges drawn up with countless petty gods of the warp.
In return, the warp reached through into real space. It could only do so by burning away the greater part of the spiritual energy drained from the crew of the Carnage, but that was the deal.
The space around the stern of the Shield bent and warped, forming a lens through which distant stars grew into wide smudges of cold light. Trails of debris were looped around and sucked back into the whirlpool sinking through spacetime behind the Shield. Glistening, slithering shapes writhed in the heart of the anomaly as the shape of the Shield itself lengthened and warped, a deeper darkness than the void spreading out to stain this patch of reality.
We learn how Lysander and crew got thrown into the 'FUTURE' The Chaos ship had a crew of 5000, they had some 'deal' witha warp entity/god by draining the 'spirit energy'/thoughts/memories/soul of those 5000 crew (but not totally sacrificing them) and thus propelling a strike cruiser some 1000 years into th efuture. Its notable for being one of those few cases where we can put somet measure of quantification of warp fuckery like this (temporal stuff especially. Its amazingly precise and gives us an idea of what Chaos gods can do with a 'given' level of power (at least in arbitraiy 'soul' units. lol) Although it is also implied to be multiple gods.

That said, while this is technically a sort of time travel, we must note that it is a very specialized sort. As described previously, time as well as space in the warp is mutable, and it isn't unusual for time to dilate so that more time passes in realspace than for a ship in the warp. The only difference here really is the magnitude of that dilation - we're talking around a thousand years or so (give or take a century or two) in a relatively short period of time. It's still impressive as hell, but we're not exactly talking daemonic time machines either.

It is also worth speculating on WHY this was done. Its not exactly simple, if the purpose was to annihilate the Fists. The ship is crippled, but instead of just being dumped in the warp (to be destroyed, since it has no Gellar field) it is 'safelty' (relatively speaking) transported into the future. Why this was done, and why it ended up in the Iron Warrior's back yard, is worth speculating on, as it smacks of Lysander and company being the pawns of some other warp entitty, perhaps in some millenia-long conflict against a rival, using the Imperium as their latest gambit.

Lastly 'petty gods of the warp' Oen of the interesting things about the novel, to me, is the vague hints at more than just the BIG FOUR gods.. rahter they are the major/big players, the dominant influences amongst Chaos, but that there are other lesser gods at work, worshipped, etc. Although they may just be daemons playing at gods or suchlike.. terminology is never ultra precise for the warp after all.


Page 48-49
He came up against a bulkhead door, large enough for two men abreast and solid enough to contain an explosion. It was set into the wall of the engine block, part of the reinforced cell separating the ship’s engines from the rest of the vessel. In times of crisis the engines and their crews were expendable, the requirement to contain leaks and fires from the reactors more important than the lives of those inside.
..
The substance of the engine room, its turbines, generators, its crew of engine-gangs and tech-seers...
..
Skelpis’s feet kicked out over the shaft as the flame billowed brighter, great plumes of vented plasma burning as hot as the surface of a star. In its harsh white light, crewmen were ground into red slivers and the shape of the enormous engine turbines were lost as grinding masses of deformed metal roared past.
Plasma reactors/engines use turbines of some kind, and we get confirmation agian that the engine system is somehow segregated as a security/damage control measure in case of overload. (the engine crews of course, are fucked.. but MORTAL FUEL and all that.)



Page 59
Fire bled weakly from the nova cannon wound in its side and its engines were gone, distorted and torn off by the reality-warping weapon deployed by the Carnage. Lysander did not know how the Carnage had inflicted such destruction, but he feared to imagine the magnitude of the blasphemy brought to bear to make such a thing happen.
Like I said, the nova cannon was some goofy warp weapon.



Page 67
"The Black Carapace, the final implant of the Space Marine, both armour plating for the central organ tree and a seat for the interfaces that connect the nerve-fibre bundles of the power armour to the subject’s own nervous system."
Black Carapace described as extra armor for the body (from the front at least) as well as its connective functions to link to power armor.



Page 77
Lysander opened fire. He did not send the thought down to his trigger finger. The signal came from somewhere in the animal hindbrain that even a Space Marine’s training could not fully erase.
Half a dozen bolter shells ripped across the chamber.
a single trigger pull seems to unleash half a dozen bolts from Lysander's special bolter.



Page 81
"n inquisitor must respect his acolytes. He must care deeply for them, as if they were members of his own family, for he has a responsibility for them that goes beyond that of a master and his underlings. But he must also be willing to pitch those acolytes into the worst peril that a human mind can imagine. Few can do it. Fewer still do not fall prey to malice, tossing aside human lives for amusement or to prove superiority. My acolytes, then, must sometimes be sacrificed in the name of something greater than any of us, but it is always with sorrow that I cast them into the path of danger. I trust that each understands that, when his time comes."
I think its a very human attitude to the job and personality of the Inquisitor,a nd it is a shame so few are like Eisenhorn and Ravenor or this guy. Pity that he turns into a heretic.



Page 98
"I have contacts, brother-Chaplain," voxed Techmarine Kho from ahead of the strike force. "Several, half a kilometre north-west of us."
...
White glints flickered along a ridge several hundred metres away. Lysander focused on one and saw the form of a head and shoulders – a figure, sighting down the barrel of a gun. One rose slightly to change position, perhaps aware the strike force had suddenly stopped.
hunting rifle with a scope. We aren't told for sure that its an effective weapons range, but its not impossible. It does reflect auspex range against human beings, though.


Page 108-109
The art of the siege was beloved of Rogal Dorn. He had written volumes on the subject that still guided the Imperial way of war to that day. But Dorn knew that there was one way for the endless armies of the Imperial Guard to take a city, and another way for the Space Marines. The Imperial Guard would spend months moving men and machines into position, setting artillery positions to bombard the target city and gradually forging closer to the walls in trenchworks and tunnels until demolition squads could rush forth and bring the walls down, or until artillery could be brought close enough to shell the city within at will. It was a bloody and drawn-out business, where the will to stay the fight was of greater importance than skill or experience.
What the Imperial Guard did with big guns and endless manpower, the Space Marines did with shock and with speed. In the kind of battle for which he had been created, each Space Marine was worth an army. Once through the breach he could visit the kind of violence on an enemy-held city that a whole regiment of Imperial Guard might wreak. First he had to get in, and to do that he used all the speed and ruthlessness the Emperor’s own teachings and the blood of his primarch had given him.
Siege warfare, Space Marine vs IG style. Which is probably thematically not unusual from a codex perspective, but it does highlight once again how the 'force multipler' aspect of the Space Marine is very context dependent. In this case, a Space Marine inside a city is equal to an IG regiment in a psychological sense (shock and speed vs attrition) rather than sheer powe.



PAge 117
Lysander counted a dozen engines in various states of completion, some little more than enormous metal skeletons, others looming hulks that looked ready to ride on massive grinding wheels or spiderlike legs. One was shaped like a steel dragon rearing up, its shoulders supporting massed batteries of cannon. Another was a turtle-like hulk, countless layers of armour surrounding sally ports to deliver hordes of troops into the heart of an enemy army. Still another, apparently complete, was a mobile idol of a lizardlike god-figure on an altar that moved on spiked rollers. Steel cauldrons held mounds of bones and skulls, and fuel tanks on the figure’s back were hooked up to an enormous flamethrower wrought into the god’s mouth. Hundreds of guns studded the shoulders and torso like spines.
It was a weapon of terror, the image of a power of the warp to terrify the defenders of a besieged city as it rumbled towards the walls spewing fire and crushing fortifications. Dozens of menials scrabbled across it, hammering its final armour plates into place.
Titan scale superheavy war engines. Daemon possessed/controlled, with 'crews' cybernetically wired in (against their will, probably.)



Page 128-129
Gortz’s musculature was grotesque, more massive and powerful than a Space Marine’s build. A Space Marine was trained to see such things as an advantage in his favour instead of a weapon in the enemy’s hand. Gortz was stronger, perhaps, in a raw and brutal sense, but that slowed him down. It meant he could not react quickly enough ...
..
A philosophy of unarmed combat that Space Marines learned – one among many – stressed the isolation and neutralisation of an enemy’s individual joints. The sleep-taught technique came to the front of Lysander’s memory as he forced Gortz’s wrist around and placed his palm down on the elbow, and put all his strength into forcing the hand up in the wrong direction.
Space MArine unarmed combat techniques and training.



Page 150
The question of what Shalhadar the Veiled actually was could never be answered. It was, like everything born of the warp, immune to logic. The gilded body was a vessel for the real daemon, symbolic of Shalhadar’s true nature but not identical to it. The daemon itself was an essence, a mind, a mass of thought, something incorporeal by human reckoning but a force as real as anything could be in the warp. Daemons could take on an infinite variety of shapes in realspace, and Shalhadar had no shape at all.
It was Shalhadar who saturated the theatre of his palace, flooding it with the mass of emotion and knowledge that comprised his true self. Lysander was blinded with colour and deafened by noise, swimming as if in an ocean surrounded by it.
Commentary on the nature of daemons and possession. Despite this, Lysander notes several times that daemons can be similar to humans in enough ways (human motivations like fear, anger, greed, etc.)


Page 150
Lysander turned his focus inwards. It was a technique taught early in a novice’s conversion to a Space Marine, because it was in a state of internal contemplation that a novice was receptive to the hypno-doctrination that filled his mind with the Chapter’s accumulated battle-lore. His mind fought against the sensory bedlam. Part of his mind, the part left over from the man he might have been had he never become an Imperial Fist, demanded that he curl into a ball and let unconsciousness sweep over him. But that part had been quiet for a long time.
more on Imperial Fist training and indoctrination.

Page 166-167
"You cannot do it alone," she said. "But you have no allies on this world. You must make sacrifices and they will not be of your flesh. The question you will ask yourself, servant of the corpse-god, is how far you will go for victory. What will you do to win? No doubt you would reply ‘anything’, but it is not that simple for one such as you. You have these… these cages in which you imprison yourselves. These principles. These moralities your people force into your minds. You will have to fight those long before you get your hands on Warsmith Thul. Long before."
"I accept that."
The brood mother waved a hand. "Of course you do," she said. "You do now. But you have not seen what you must do. I will not say I can perceive every moment that will come, but I can see the way the path winds. And of course, you will ignore any warnings I might give. You want to be shown the way."
It's an interestig commentary on what separates Imperial humanity (As harsh and brutal as it is) from Chaos and those living beings within its thrall. More than that, perhaps, it shows what separates normal humans from those who can become the truly powerful cahmpions of Chaos - the willingness to surrender those things that hold us back from achieving our ambitions and personal desires through a total amorality.

And beyond that it reflects the struggle Lysander himself faces in this novel, as well as the one in Seventh Retribution. This is the Lysander willing to do anything and pay any price to achieve his goals without actually considering what those costs might entail... wheras the Seventh Retribution Lysander is older, somewhat more wiser, and more aware of the fact that some costs are too high to willingly pay.


Page 171
Space Marines did not dream as other men did. A sleeping man was a vulnerable man, and a Space Marine could never be vulnerable. Instead the lobes of his brain were separated by a membrane, cultured from his primarch’s gene-seed and implanted during his conversion into a Space Marine, which allowed one half to fall into torpor while the other was awake. The animal brain stayed alert, ready to snap the Space Marine back to full readiness. What passed for dreams in that half-sleep were impressions of his surroundings, seen through the eyes of that predator.
More on Space Marines and their not dreaming, at least not the way normal humans do and what the catalepsean node does for him.


Page 185
A Space Marine was not like a normal soldier. A soldier was a man, and a man was safest the further away from the fighting he was. He knew not to rush into the fray, and to cling to what safety there was on a battlefield, out of sight or in cover. But a Space Marine knew that he was safest in the midst of the battle, where an enemy had to take him on face to face, because that was the way a Space Marine was created to fight.
[/quote]
Again space marines are optimized for close in fighting which complements their abilities in confined areas. This agian speaks to that 'contextual multiplier' where their abilities and gear give them a massively greater psychological advantage against mere humans as opposed to long ranges and battlefields.

This interestingly suggests that ranged warfare is more the norm for 'normal' human troops.. such as the Guard and PDF.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Space Marine Battles series thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Part 2
Page 200
"I will not return to the Phalanx if he lives," replied Lycaon. "And a lifetime of shame will accompany any of us who does."
Suggesting they did indeed come from the Phalanx to Malodrax. Now if the Phalanx is on terra, my prevvious analysis would be more or less correct.


Page 203
"As if it were burned yesterday, not thousands of years ago."
"Perhaps it was," said Kaderic. "They say a world held by daemons may not even obey the rules of time. Would that we had a battlefleet and the Exterminatus to be deployed. All of Malodrax would stink of ash then."
They'd need a battlefleet to exterminatus Malodrax. What that entails in specific details is imprecise (conventional firepower or something like Virus bombs or cyclonics), or how big the 'battlefleet' is (dozens or hundreds of ships, it could go either way), or the scale of destruction (anywhere from just wiping out all life to nearly shattering the planet.) and of course duration. All we can say for certain ist hat maybe scores or hundreds of ships possess enough total firepower to deliver hundreds or thousands of teratons of firepower (single-double digit TT Per ship, roughly.)



Page 208
"Malodrax does love its little games. It gives our fellow travellers the faces of animals so we will think them animals, but they are born soldiers. They have by their very nature the instinct of a soldier." He pointed to a rush of movement to the south, where a multitude of scurrying bodies glinted in the paltry moonlight. "They send their weakest forward, to test our guns. They learn there of our effective range and of the weight of our firepower. A classic tactic when one has numbers to spare."
I just know they're talking about the Guard again, here.



Page 217-218
Sergeant Gorvetz ordered Brother Antinas forwards, as he had at the war engine, and the result was the same. Antinas drenched the brood mother in burning fuel and the flames of her pyre reached up through the fallen ceiling and into the sky. She shrieked in the flame and clawed at the air above her, her flesh boiling away and only a deformed skeleton left to tumble into the mass of burning debris.
..
Gorvetz watched the fire leaping high for a moment, even as the last remnants of the brood mother’s shape crumbled away.
..
The fire was dying down, the fast-burning fuel feeding a hot but short-lived flame. Lycaon walked through the burning detritus closer to the ashes and scorched bones that remained of the brood mother. He poked around in the debris, bent down, and came up clutching the scorched length of a chainsword. Golden paint still clung to it, and to the clenched fist symbol of the Chapter.
We know the Brood Mother is significantly larger than a Space Marine (can lift one up and fling it about) and probably many times heavier, which we can figure is definitely gigajoule range output. And whilst we dont know how much flamer fuel the heavy flamer dude carries (or how much he used) he didn't run out clearly, nor can he carry tons of it, so there is limits here. Even then though, as I've noted, flamers ability to cremate suggests they're more complex than simple flamers or just having brute force huge amounts of energy - likely they induce a spontaneous combustion effect consistently in targets to achieve the true cremation effects.

And an Imperial Fists chainsword survives the conflagration relatively untouched (cremation level temperatures and energies for a prolonged period)

Incidentally this whole seen has Lysander outright lying to his comrades about how the Brood Mother go tthe chainsword (he doesnt admit he gave it to her.) He's hiding the true scope of his 'corruption' from the planet, which in and of itself is an interesting contrast to the story of the Inquisitor he read during that joruney (and the parallels of corruption are interesting.) Once more, we're told to ask just how far Lysander will go for 'victory' and how much of a cost he will pay (of himself and others.)



Page 221
"My own brand of heresy is a common one. I am humble enough to admit that. What if knowledge was a weapon, I came to ask? Knowledge of the enemy, so warned against by the Imperial Creed, which could be a keener blade than ignorance? Instead of obeying the Creed I hoarded such knowledge and most sinfully of all, when I learned I was not alone, I sought the company of others who shared in my heresy. Thus was the name of Malodrax first passed to me, a world of daemons where countless secrets were waiting to become our mortal sins."
Again ostensibly part of the typical 40K grimdarkifcation about whole 'ignorance instead of knowledge in the GRIM FUTURE.' but it ignores just how insidious and pervasive Chaos is. If you embrace ignorance you dont know about the threat and it makes Chaos easier to manipulate you. If you seek knowledge, Chaos can try to manipulate you through that knowledge - corrupt you, drive you mad, misinform you, etc. There are no clear, easy answers, and its a constant struggle (the nature of Chaos, naturally.) to consistently defeat such a threat. What's more, its only one you can really challenge on a case by case basis, but humanity (the Imperium in particular) is made for absolutes.



Page 225
..Scraw was sitting on a balcony overlooking the execution ground, imbibing his regular dose of narcotic and juvenat drugs from a crystal glass as the day’s first executions greeted the dawning sun.
Aristocrats can get their Juvenat in a liquid form or additive that can be easily mixed with your favorite drink.


Page 228
That was how much the Imperial Fists, the human race, hated daemonkind. That was how deep their disgust and their desire for revenge went. If they could, every Space Marine in the Imperium would storm into the warp and butcher every single daemon, every wayward thought the Chaos Gods gave form, and would march to the foot of those very gods’ thrones.
..
"Do you understand now what we are? For everything you are, for each one of us you kill, for every one you corrupt and force to his knees, there are a billion more directing every moment of their hatred at you. And what you feel now is something you have never felt, and that is my payment to you."
This is for me another very Ian-Watsonesque moment as it recalls what the Hydra Cabal tried to do - to harness the collective willpower of humanity to destroy the Chaos Gods. And its entirely possible for that to happen - they are a product of living beings including humanity, and so they are likely vulnerable through that connection. Its only humanity's fragmented unity that they retain any dominance (they are individually omre powerful than any one other entity or group of humans.) Although that obviously doesn't include the Orks unifying either under their gods with a single purpose, either :P

So while I kinda do laugh at the image of Space Marines storming the eye on simple ANGER and expecting to win in a physical, military sense, the purpose BEHIND that anger and the way it could affect the warp if harness throughout humanity (perhaps through the Space Marines?) is itself worthy of fear and respect, which is the point of the scene.

Oh and it implies perhaps for every human murdered or corrupted by Chaos, there are a 'billion' more. It may not be literal, since this does suggest Chaos is a statistically tiny minority (which seems unlikely) although it could suggest there are quadrillison or qunitilions of humans too.. if we DO take it literally. Depends on how you feel about the scope of the Imperium I guess (although ti coudl be that Lysander means humanity as a whole, rather than just the Imperium, the two are not the same.)


Page 242
"From this base I set about exploring and cataloguing the nature of this city. It was an impossible task, for like all things touched by Chaos it did not obey the rules that a saner place might cleave to. For instance, there was no economy to speak of, not as we understand it. How was the city’s population fed? How did it maintain a population at all given the sacrifices and random blossomings of bloodshed that took place hourly? Who kept the gleaming spires and gilded streets clean of filth, so it met every day’s dawn with a blaze of reflected gold and silver? Archivist Grunvelder was most perturbed by the lack of answers to these questions.."
..
The wily assassin knew that only life and death are constant, for to him they were the defining features of every level of existence.
"The function of the city, if not the intricate details of its various interactions, became apparent to me. Though I ventured out little, leaving Sildyne and the feral worlder brothers to roam abroad for information and supplies, my perceptiveness is such that I beheld the most important truths. The pyramid was at the centre of the city, both physically and in the hearts and minds of its people. They lived, and the city existed, to fuel the need of the palace for beauty and talent, even though such beauty was often abhorrent to a sane mind. From the deprevations and devotional displays of the population were made apparent the most devoted and capable of celebrants, who might then be granted entry to the palace."
The 'functioning' and 'economy' of another city on a Chaos world. Again in some ways like, yet unlike what is 'normal' for the Impeirum. The reasons/outcomes may be the same but the mechanisms may differ. ITs actually kinda darwinian in many respects.



Page 245
"That lies are the very substance of Chaos is a truth that need not be taught to anyone with the capacity to read and understand these words. Yet in our arrogance we assume that we alone are lied to, and that every movement and utterance of the daemon is intended solely to deceive us. Indeed not, for it is my belief that the greater part of daemonkind concern themselves not with humanity, but with other creatures of the warp. Among themselves they make war, forge pacts, make bargains, bind one another into servitude, and destroy. And among themselves, they lie."
Also true. The Chaos Gods (or any warp entity) could probably care very little for mortals as a rule, except for how they benefit them as a source of power/sustenance. Their attnetions are pretty much the same as what we may pay attention to any food source to cultivate or consume it. Their attentions are more on their so-called 'equals'.


Page 248-249
"This is a good sword," he said, "but it would still be an unpowered weapon against power armour. Hexal’s armour is of an ancient mark. The weak points are the joints at the waist and between the arms. But that is only speaking relatively. Those points are still sounder than any mundane armour. Moreover, the first blow must be fatal or debilitating, otherwise Hexal will have the time to draw a weapon and fight back, as will the brute-mutants to the rear."
An interesting point about old (HEresy era, at least) Powered armour. IT apparently is not TOTALLY invulnerable to conventional blades (even wielded by Astartes) but even the weak points are not easily penetrated, which tells you a bit about its protective qualities, I think. It also implies that with this sort of armour (Worn by an Iron Warrior, anyhow) you definitely need a powered weapon (or power weapon) of some kind. this could include chain as well as power weapons, and possibly mono-edge weapons.

Its interesting to contrast this with what happened in Gray Knights (primitives in huge numbers killing said GK) as it might give insights into what happened to him or what must have happened to kill a power armoured Knight.



Page 258-259
"Of every million men, perhaps one might be suitable for the employ of the Inquisition. He must be prepared to do anything, starting with killing and dying and becoming ever more onerous, for reasons he does not understand and at the behest of an inquisitor he might never meet. He must murder those who do not deserve it. He must guard those he hates. And he must do all this in the necessary ignorance in which the lower echelons of the inquisitor’s network are submerged."

"Of every million such men, perhaps one might have the qualities to serve as an acolyte in the direct employ of an inquisitor, privy to the dealings of his conclave and bearing the keys to his master’s armoury. He must take upon himself a measure of responsibility that might encompass whole worlds, entire civilisations, which might be saved or extinguished by his endeavours. He must sometimes stand by while atrocities are committed, and participate in the committing, and comprehend the great dangers and evils that might ensue if they tried to stay on the path of good. He must see the worst the universe has to hurl at him and in response, shed the shackles of morality instead of his sanity."

"Of every million such men, one might rise to the rank of inquisitor, and bear the ultimate authority that can exist in the Imperium short of the Emperor Himself arisen. He must kill worlds, because letting them live threatens a greater catastrophe that might come to pass in thousands of years. He must have already handed his life to the Emperor’s service, and consider himself dead. He must make the survival of the human race his responsibility, and encompass the enormity of that task with intellect, willpower and hatred."
It perhaps puts into context the horrors and issues facing those who serve or act in the Inquisition, as mere humans. And perhaps explain how even Inquisitors and their agents can be corrupted. They are, after all, only human.

And in a numberical sense if we take this literally rather than figuratively, it would imply quintillions or more of humans (more really, since there'd be thousands or millions of Inquisitors out there. But evne if its not 100% literal it can speak to a huge population -tens or hudnreds of trillions at a very least, taken as a whole.



PAge 263
Though a Space Marine did not strictly need to sleep, his effectiveness in combat dropped off after a certain span of hours, and though their histories were full of heroics lasting for days on end, a Space Marine commander did not let the battle-brothers under his command lose their edge through fatigue. Already the strike force had done in a few days what an Imperial Guard regiment might do in months, mostly on foot and fighting along the way.
Two points. Limts on a Space MArine's abilities to fight without sleep. They can go a certain number of hours (suggesitve of hours rather than days in context) before they start to drop in efficiency. The rate at which they drop in efficiency beyond those 'hours' isnt stated nor is the number of days (unless we interpret it strictly as 'less than a week') but its telling nonetheless

Also we get another Space Marine/normal trooper comparison, as about a company (with two First company squads as support) ro so of Fists in a few days have done as much as a Regiment in a month. Work out the multiplier and context on your own if you want :P



PAge 266-267
His eye caught Talaya’s name again. Lysander was unsure what to feel when he saw it. He had not known Talaya, not as Golrukhan had written about her, but Golrukhan’s words suggested a world of the mind beyond what a Space Marine experienced. A world where one person might feel for another something that could spur them on to astonishing deeds and awful mistakes. How much did a man leave behind when he ascended to the ranks of the Space Marines? If Lysander really knew what happened in the minds of those unaugmented men and women, who had not been sleep-taught Rogal Dorn’s battle-genius and been transformed into something else, would he miss it? So often the power of those emotions was tied up with all manner of the foulest corruption. The powers of the warp enjoyed nothing more, it seemed, than to take the emotions of joy and weave them into hatred. But to go without the emotion of such connections meant to remain ignorant of so much. Was a Space Marine something less than a man, as well as more?
A Space Marine was not without emotion. Some in the Imperium thought of them as automatons, mindlessly executing the will of the God-Emperor, and perhaps some were. But inside Lysander was a well of emotion that he could draw from just as he drew from his training, or the doctrines of Dorn’s battle-lore. There was a well of hate and anger inside him. A Space Marine’s discipline could keep it bound until it was needed. He could have faith in that, he told himself, as he had done many times since he had stumbled from Kulgarde into the wastes of Malodrax. He had faith in the hatred.
Lysander ponders the difference between a Space MArine and a normal human as far as emotions go. Its interesting, ot me, and I love Ben Counter for diong this if nothing else, because it plays on the idea of 'Space Marines as imperfect or limited beings' I mean they're godawfully superior killing machines, but that extreme specialization also leaves them.. lacking.. compared to normal humans. They are bereft of the sorts of emotions that are useful in situations that may operate ouside of killing or duty or whatever. It hampers them in their ability to understand or interact with unaugmented humans. And its interesting and awesome that this is actually treated as a potential weakness, something that Lysander realizes. The Space Marine can be all physically badass killtastic as you like, but on some level they could also be seen as emotionally stunted manchildren (which in a sense they are) and that leaves them crippled and vulnerable in other ways.

Indeed, although those things they lack may protect them in certain ways, it may also weaken them in othres (they don't know enough to fear Chaos, perhaps?) Lysander is making tremendous sacrifices, stuff no normal Fist would be inclined to do... could that be because his lack of emotional depth cripples him in understanding something that is fundamentally based on emotion as much as thought?

Its interesting becuase Lysander is a vehicle in the story for addressing this idea, the nature of the warp, and his roles and motivations in this mission. He doubts and questions the purity of his motives, who might be using him... and his fate and the cost. They're all tied up in the plot of the book and I can say (without revealing certain points) I was surprised in certain ways (things didn't twist the way I expected.)

In some ways this book is also reminiscent in its structur eand handling as Gray Knight. not as good as Alaric's journey, but sitll quite good for many of the same reasons, I think. It puts the Space MArine in the position of questioning himself and his nature, and pitting that nature and those questions against a threat that cannot simply be shot or murdered (in this case an entire planet steeped in Chaos that may in fact be using Lysander the way it uses everyone of its inhabitants/visitors.)



Page 272
They fought like Imperial Fists, with expertise born of a lifetime training to fight and break the siege. Rogal Dorn had been a siege warrior, a builder and breaker of the mightiest fortresses, but so had the Iron Warriors primarch, Perturabo. Lysander realised in that moment just how close a mirror the Iron Warriors were of the Imperial Fists, created to fight the same wars in the Emperor’s name, diverged onto two different paths in the fires of civil war.
Lysander had never hated them more. The thought was a foul taste in his mouth. That the Imperial Fists and the Iron Warriors could be so close, separated by chance alone, by fate…
"No," said Lysander aloud. "We are nothing alike. Keep your lies to yourself, Malodrax. They will find no purchase here."
Lysander's determination and willingness to sacrifice is being tested agian. Its interesting because in some ways it brings Lysander uncomfortably close to certain truths he is trying to avoid.. that he may not in fact be much differnent than those he seeks to destroy. Again is he as much a tool of the planet (the theme of the story centering very much on the planet being 'aware' and testing/manipulating people.) or is this all his own will?

Its also interesting to reflect on the similarities between the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists, as the contrasts are endemic to 40K's setting. The Iron Warriors are traitors and the Fists Loyalists, both siege experts, both skilled in creating as well as destroying... both big on discipline, albeit in differnet ways (Dorn's sort are thinkers who channel their emotions through that mental focus and pain, whereas Perturabo's bunch prize structure and discipline above all else. Dorn's bunch are perhaps far more emotional than Perturabo as well, despite both having their own aspect of discipline/duty/honour.



Page 276
Brother Halaestus broke off from the strike force’s order of march, clambering up onto one of the blocks of fallen masonry. He drew his blade and sliced a limb off the nearest daemon. It let out a rumbling sigh and slumped to the ground before Halaestus drove the monomolecular blade down through its body.
Combat knife or short sword or whatever it is. Its monomolecular in any case.



PAge 307
"The wild war engines are left to test the others. They are sent out here to prove themselves before Thul will export them to whatever warzone demands them next. If they can survive beasts like this, they are fit to fight in the colours of the Iron Warriors. That machine has no doubt accounted for plenty others of its kind."
You have to wonder how mayn war machines the Iron Warriors of malodrax have made, that they can expend them in such blatantly darwinian measures. They're not exactly Leman Russes, after all.



Page 311
The huge daemonic face grimaced down at the Imperial Fists as the tower’s guns opened up.
Great rents were opened up in the chasm walls as the guns thundered. Shattered stone rained, red-hot and razor-sharp. Spent cannon shells the size of men fell as Lysander sprinted to one side to avoid them.
Daemon engine siege guns (identified as such anyhow later, they aren't antipersonnel.) ejects casings the size of a 'man', implying perhaps at least a metre long and a good 30-40 centimeters across (battleship scale guns at least, if not somethign on the order of Schwerer gustav in caliber, if not firepower.)


PAge 315
Lysander slammed into the servitor and rammed the barrel of his bolter up into its closest ribcage. He squeezed the trigger and hammered half a magazine into its central mass. Desiccated flesh flew as the explosive bolter shells ripped through the servitor from the inside.
Half a magazine of bolter rounds in a short time (matter of seconds?)



Page 322
A ruddy glow came from an open furnace door, and Lysander spotted charred bones in the maw of the furnace among heaps of black ashes.
"It fuels itself with the dead," said Lysander.
Its a Daemon engine, so of ocurse it would be corpse powered!



PAge 322-323
The controller of the siege tower could have been one of two possibilities. The first was a machine-spirit, similar to those present in ancient cogitators helping command the most venerable starships and war engines of the Imperium, albeit corrupted and malevolent. The second possibility was a daemon, summoned and compelled to possess the siege tower by sacrifices made at the moment its engines were started. The air of malice surrounding the tower had suggested from the start that the latter was more likely.
The two major forms of Iron Warrior war engine control. Note the reference to semi-aware machine spirits on starships and war engines of the Imperium - the older ones, at least.\



Page 326-327
Down there in the tower’s depths was a cogitator of ancient mark, with thousands of valves filling a contraption of glass and pitted steel. The glass was discoloured as if by disease and reams of punchcards lay around it like a snowdrift. It was Antinas who found it first, and Givenar expressed gratitude that Antinas had not flamed it at first sight.
While the two swapped insults Techmarine Kho reached the cogitator and levered its casing open, exposing the clacking mass of valves and levers inside.
Lysander stood guard, ready for any remaining servitors to scrabble out of hidden corners to defend the cogitator. Kho plunged a servo-arm into the cogitator and wiring slithered out, datajacks finding places to interface with the ancient machine.
..
"What about the servitors?"
"I can cut the connection," said Kho. "They will revert to their simplest behaviour routines. I cannot control them directly or shut them down, not without a great deal of work."
More mechanical, punch-card operated cogitators. And whats more, it apparently can control servitors independently.



Page 352-353
Karnak drew a long silver blade with a rapier point as sharp as the scalpels in his anatomy theatre.
..
He caught the blade on his forearm, trusting the super-dense bone of a Space Marine to hold against the edge of the sword. The impact jarred through him and the blade bit deep into the bone, but it did not cut through.
Sharpness of a combat weapon.. a rapier this time. But not sharp enough to cut through Space marine bones, it seems.



Page 356-357
My ocular augmentations give me the capacity to write these words but all is the deepest blacks and blues.
..
My internal painkiller dispensers were a crude augmentation and would not let me hold up to the most severe tormenting..
Inquisitorial augmentations.. even if the latter one is crude.



PAge 363
Lysander spoke those words to his own wargear – his was new to him, for he had left his original wargear on Malodrax the last time he had seen Kulgarde. He prayed for the souls of their previous owners, for few items of the Chapter’s wargear did not have components previously carried by another Imperial Fist. The armour was from a Brother Kalithrax, who had been slain by corrosive tyranid spores in the crusade against Hive Splinter Karkinos, and had been altered to fit Lysander in the forges of the Phalanx. The bolter had been carried by Sergeant Thornas, who had replaced it with a storm bolter crafted by the Chapter’s artificers. The chainblade was built from components returned to the Chapter after the Imphalian Massacre.
Space Marine gear is often repaired or even rebuilt using components -in part or in whole - from other Space Marines


Page 365
He pointed at the long red scar leading from below his chin to the top of his sternum. In spite of a Space Marine’s accelerated healing the scar had not healed and was still livid and weeping.
"I am not a Space Marine!" shouted Halaestus. "I am not an Imperial Fist! I am not even a man!"
Lysander could not look away from the scar. There had been the seat of the gene-seed, the genetic material of Rogal Dorn and the organ that had regulated the many augmentations when Halaestus was turned into a Space Marine.
It was gone. The gene-seed had been cut out by the Bone Carvers and taken to Kraegon Thul’s armoury, to be implanted into a new Iron Warrior. And though none of them had spoken of it directly, every Imperial Fist in the strike force had known what that meant.
A space marine can endure many things without breaking, but loss of gene-seed seems not to be one of them. At least, not loss to the enemy. Given how it represents continuity and a sort of immortality.. the history and 'duty' that a Marine is entrusted with when implanted with the Gene-seed, you can kind of understand why. But it does reprenset something of a psychological weak point - an insecurity even, at least for the fists given the whole symbolic importance attached to it (eg without it he's neither 'Space Marine' nor 'man.' An emasculation of sorts, ironic given that Space Marines generally don't have sexual feelings of any identifiable sort.)

It also represents, obviously, that Space Marines can function without gene seed and still being alive, as pointed out in examples of Space Marines having said gene seed removed. Which actually is sensible, given the importance and continuity they place on it and the tragedy or loss. Givne the dangers Space Marines face, you'd think they'd remove it as soon as permissable. And why they don't even noew remains a mystery, unless it is tied to that 'immortality' (continuing to absorb the gneetics/experiences/life of the bearer for example) or to the symbolic reasons (its a symbol fo what a Space Marine is, and without it they are less, as irrational as this sounds.)



Page 366-367
On top of the battlements, with a great grinding of metal on stone, emerged a hemispherical structure of rust-streaked iron. The dome slid open to reveal a huge and ancient weapon, a massive laser cannon such as might be found in the batteries of a warship or wielded by one of the Imperium’s Titan war engines.
..
On the huge siege gun scrambled dozens of labourers, menials of Kulgarde working to dial in the focusing lenses and check the connections to the fortress generators that would create the massive laser pulse. The cannon was large enough to spit the siege tower on a lance of laser, and its elevation was being lowered so the shot would go right through its engines and the axles of its rollers. The engine would be crippled in a single shot, and the subsequent shots would blast it apart floor by floor until it was one more heap of wreckage in the shadow of Kulgarde.
Titan grade isege laser. Possibly either a turbo-laser or a volcano cannon. Implied to be a warship grade weaponry (Battery weapon at that!, rather than point defense) although it doesnt specify what kind of battery weapon - batteries can encompass all manner of weapons in all manner of numbers/configurations, after all. And we saw the Stirke cruiser earlier had 'thousands' of lasers. nor does it specify rate of fire or any similar stuff.


PAge 368
The Talon Blade’s multi-melta fired, a bright orange bolt of superheated particles ripping into the mechanism that controlled the attitude of the laser cannon’s barrel.
Multi melta seems to be a sort of particle beam in this case.



PAge 370
A squad of Iron Warriors had made the top of the wall before the siege tower had hit. He recognised that gnarled bare metal power armour of long-obsolete marks, with faceplates mirroring the iron mask symbol of the Legion.
Obsolete power armor. Older is not always better, this time itseems.



Page 372
Lysander drew back his gun arm and slammed the butt of his bolter into the Iron Warrior’s faceplate, over and over, a dozen hammering blows striking home in a handful of seconds.
Implying perhaps between two and six blows per second, depending on how one defines 'handful.' A dozen blows with a Space Marine bolter's mass and with a Space Marine's power-armoured strength behind it can also shatter a space Marine helmet. At least on the 'obsolete' Iron Warrior power armour.



PAge 377
The high ceiling was obscured by banks of smoke and lengths of massive chain looped down, hung with titan-sized weapons for fitting onto Kulgarde’s war machines.
The Iron Warrior war engines pack titan grade weaponry, reminding us they are probably superheavies at least. Also that the 'man sized' shells from the siege gun were battleship grade firepower (and titan grade as well.)



Page 381
A man might live two or three hundred years among the Imperial nobility, but what of it? A hundred more and it will be as if he had never existed.
Implies a typical Imeprial novel with juvenat might live 200-300 years, but not more than 400.



PAge 383
The axe was a crude weapon snatched from a brute-mutant moments earlier, a similar size to the executioner’s axe with a notched and blunted blade.
..
Lysander brought the haft of his axe down in time to deflect the blade but the sword cut straight through his weapon. Lysander dropped the useless halves of the axe as Karnak rolled to his feet.
The 'scalpel sharp' rapier that couldn't pierce Lysander's arm bones can easily cut through the haft of an executioner-sized axe.


Page 383-384
Lysander grabbed the spokes of the cog beside him. Metal screamed as the cogs around it disengaged, stripping teeth. He ripped the cog free of its mountings – it was three metres across and solid iron. Lysander spun like a hammer thrower, letting the force come up from his feet, through his legs up to his abdomen and chest, and out through his shoulders. The cog scythed into Karnak, smacking him square in the midriff and throwing him back through a bank of spinning clockwork.
Lysander hefts and throws a iron 'cog' some 3 meteres in diameter and perhaps at least a few inches wide. Assuming 70% empty space and iron and a 5 cm thickness we're talking at least 834 kg. Considering he throws it.. its probably not the upper limit on Astartes strength, not by a long shot.


Page 387
". This was to be my weapon. The venom in it will seize the gene-seed’s genetic markers and turn them against the host. A Space Marine can survive most anything, but not this. "
Astartes-killing venom. Implied to be archeotech (or psosibly the delivery system is) and thus rare, but perhaps not unique. Basically puts their organs into overdrive to kill the victim.



PAge 392
A gunshot sounded and the upper half of Talaya’s face was gone, replaced with a great red-black crater.
..
The shot had hit her in the back of the head and the exit wound had blasted away everything from forehead to nose.
..
Leaning against a pillar, still aiming down the sights of an Iron Warrior’s bolter, was Brother Halaestus.
Effect of Bolter round on chaos-possessed human. doesnt seem very explosive either.



Page 395
Navigators were essential to long-distance space travel, but they were mutants, and hence, while their existence was tolerated, they were hated, feared and avoided by right-thinking people who told tales of the terrors contained in that third eye. It allowed a Navigator to look upon the warp and not only keep his sanity, but chart a path through it. But most of all, it could kill. The reflection of the warp that remained in the third eye would annihilate a man’s mind if he looked into it. It could leave his body a dried-out husk, all life and moisture driven from it. It could blast him apart from the inside, leaving him smeared across the deck. A look from it could make him burst into flames or freeze his blood solid. Every tale had one thing in common – a Navigator may look feeble and broken, but a glance from that eye will kill.
Lysander had heard enough such tales, and he knew they were true. The Navigator’s eye would destroy even a Space Marine’s mind, if he let it. Lysander did not.
rumours about and effects of a Navigaotr's third eye.



Page 405-406
"I have heard the sentiment many times. You, who have lived within your Imperium, among its corruption and hatred, you still rail against those who would change it. I thought perhaps you would understand, Lysander. You have been more than a Space Marine. Malodrax saw to it you were something very different, for a while. But you are the same as the rest."
...
"Just as the Imperium forged you into a weapon to use against its own, to murder and oppress your own people. Chaos is freedom, Imperial Fist! Let your experience on Malodrax break you from the cage of your mind. Abandon what you were. You have bargained with daemons and assassinated the foes of the Iron Warriors. You are an Imperial Fist no longer.’"
...
"You can be a crusader for the freedom of the human race," he said. "We will take our war to the stars. We will strike at the Imperium, at its underbelly, for it is ancient, corrupted and soft. One swift strike with the war engines of Kulgarde and we will be at the gates of Terra."
"And what will you do then?" asked Lysander. "With the Imperium at your mercy?"
"Burn it down," said Thul, and Lysander was sure that behind that faceplate he was smiling. "Bring the human race to extinction, and rebuild it in the image of the warp."
I like two things about this scene. For one thing even though he's a horrible Chaos warrior who wants to destroy humanity and plunge it into chaos.. I kinda respect his enthusiasim and hope. He is ultimtely doomed by optimism.. deep down this guy wants Lysander to join him and believe as he does (a weakness). It gives a bit of depth even to bad guys because.. its hard to hate a person who can have hope and belief like you can, even if he does horrible things. He is as shaped by his experiences as Lysander is, and he believes in what he does because he still believes the Emperor betrayed him and his actions are just and for the good of humanity (a perverse sort of reflection of the 'Duty' all Space Marines share.)

This also plays on Lysander's earlier thoughts on how similar the Fists nad Iron Warriors can be.. we might infer that Lysander unwittingly could see what he might become in that 'How far would I sacrifice to achieve my goals.' Its another thing I always like Ben Counter for - he seems to like to throw back to the Ian Watson/Barrington J Bayley era of 40K when questions about Chaos vs Imperium were more complex and not just 'GOOD VS EVIL' type stuff (for a given quantity of 'good'.) It was more order vs chaos, stability vs freedom.. which is alot more gray area.



Page 412
ysander looked from one end of the chapel to the other. Many had died. Many that could not be replaced. And Lysander had brought them to Malodrax.
Malodrax had come close. He could not deny that. The deals he had made with daemons, the lies he had told, even if only lies of omission, to his fellow Imperial Fists, and the part he had played in the plan to assassinate Sildyne – that had been almost enough. Thul’s words had reached deep into his soul, but not quite deep enough.
It was the anger that had kept him true. That had never died down. That hot focus on revenge had kept the corruption from him, even when he was steeped in it. Malodrax thought it knew how deep a creature could hate, but it had never encountered Lysander before. What compromise and doubt still clung to him, the hatred would burn away. Malodrax had come close, but no one would ever come that close again to turning Lysander into something an Imperial Fist should never be.
"I wonder," said Lysander, "how far would be too far, in the name of victory."
...
He had been thinking of all the deeds that had brought him so close to the abyss, the deals and the alliances with the powers of Malodrax. But Kaderic, like all the Imperial Fists, did not need to know how close Lysander had come.
I think this is an interesting way to end the story. Lysander has achieved his goal - gotten revenge for what happened to him, defeated a threat to the Imperium, but... what has he lost in the process? The question throughout the book has been 'what cost is he willing to pay for victory.' He has made deals and alliances with Chaos on Malodrax. He has kept those truths hidden from his fellow Fists. He has followed the words of an admitted heretic Inquisitor (who yet manages to remain more faithful to the Imperium, arguably, than Lysander himself - the badass SPACE MARINE.) He has gotten many of his brothers killed in the process, deaths that perhaps could have been averted by that secrecy. Even the good he did achieve (rescuing his brothers from the Iron Warriors' were not appreciated, as we saw with the 'I LOST MY GENESEED' bit above.

So did Lysander come out ahead in this? Was he justified in doing what he did? And even if he is justified, should he have kept it secret to avoid consequences (he could still admit to it and accept punishment. He is willing to accept small punishments like in the treatement of his wargear but apparently not for dealing with Chaos.) I think thats one of the things I appreciate most with this book - we're not given a 'Codex' version of Lysander. He's not the badass kill em all tabletop model.. he is a Astartes who has been through horrific things, had ot make horrific decisions, and faced doubt and uncertainty even now. I think this sets the stage for the future events we get with Seventh Retribution.. sort of a bookend for that novel in a way, I suppose. Lysander continues to ask that question 'how far is too far' - and I think he doesnt get that answer til Seventh Retribution. He isn't the superhuman badass, he's a person in many ways as flawed nad limited as a human because of that nature, and those flaws are what permeated te entire book. I think its good to see Space Marines as tragic or humbled or even flawed figures in that respect, not only becuase it gets away from the WARFIGHTING stuff, but its a sort of balance (although I supsect some people will not see or understand this. That aspect in Hammer of Daemons did not seem to come through with some who I have noticed hate that book too.)
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