Prototype and Saints Row

[gamer]

You're doing that thing where you're spouting trivia at people rather than actually discussing. PS, the saints will just fly away in their laser armed vtol attack jets. Scenario: over.

Then you just wank Prototype some more. Yes, dude, we know; Prototype is about the Incredible Hulk. That's why the vs is stupid.

STAG failed because they're idiots. Prototype guys are in no way less capable and in many ways far, far more capable. So... what's the point? STAGs laser guns actually do less damage than the regular rifles anyway.

Hey dude, are you aware that is not a reply? It doesn't matter what they have because they're retarded, and the Prototype guys will just take it away anyway.

How did I wank Prototype at all? I'm serious, where is this coming from?

Also doesn't Blackwatch shoot down anything that tries to leave the city? Then again these are laser armed VTOLs but I'm not sure how they will be able to evade the AA missiles. In the event that fails they would have to try to hold up in the city and find another way out, they have military gear better than most nations, alot of seemingly magitech items in their possession that could help (IIRC don't they have a computer that can turn virtual items into real-life objects?, then there's things like the Saints Flow energy drink), and alot of powerful allies, if Blackwatch doesn't want to cooperate they have the ability to take them on, but they would probably not want to risk it when they have bigger problems right at their doorstep. Heller is running loose in the city do you think the Saints could have him ally with them or at least not attack them? They also have alot of sway with the public so this may help them as well.

STAG may have made some idiotic mistakes but so has Blackwatch, Blackwatch doesn't exactly have super-competence here and they are both ruthless military organizations so that's why I thought they were comparable to one another.

[Stark]

Are you saying owning a brand of energy drink will assist the saints when facing off against the hulk and an army of blob monsters?

PShow much of the saints capabilities will still exist when the city is an actual war zone? Infinite car rebuilds for $200 while civilians are dying by the tens of thousands under the guns of the US army!

[gamer]

Are you saying owning a brand of energy drink will assist the saints when facing off against the hulk and an army of blob monsters?

PShow much of the saints capabilities will still exist when the city is an actual war zone? Infinite car rebuilds for $200 while civilians are dying by the tens of thousands under the guns of the US army!

This energy drink

[gamer]

I propose a new drinking game in honour of gamer and his unyielding devotion to a game franchise. Every time he mentions the words Prototype, Mercer, Elizabeth, Greene, Blacklight, or virus in his posts, take a shot.

Every time he gives a character Blacklight superpowers, take a shot. Every time he mentions the military, take two shots.

Every time he fails to provide proper measurements of a character's power, take a shot.

Am I missing anything?

The only other thread I made that had Prototype in it was the Hive Queen thread where Eve, Greene, the Borg Queen, the Lich King and the Scourge, Sarah Kerrigan, and a Tyranid Dominatrix all went at each other. Eve lost due to her powers only working on humans and animals, Lich King lacked the tech to be able to reliably fight the others, Borg Queen had the tech but without Borg cubes the Borg couldn't reproduce fast enough, Blacklight could reproduce quickly and put up a fight but there was no way it could infect the Tyranids or eradicate them with its mutant army, Zerg were capable but lost out to the Tyranids since the Tyranids reproduce the fastest of anyone and could produce some truly terrifying beasts like bio-titans.

So I don't know what you are talking about.

[Aaron MkII]

Guy chugs drink, gets in game powers?

You just don't get it.

[Grumman]

Gamer, Stark, you both suck.

Gamer, you need to understand that power levels between universes don't mean shit. Lensman is not better than 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea just because the former has total matter conversion.

Stark, you just need to quit acting like a douchebag whenever games come up.

[Stark]

Thanks for singling me out, pal. Are you six?

[Metahive]

The Boss hijacks one of those shit-dumping trucks and douses Mercer with it. Mercer assimilates the excrements and the virus becomes SHITLIGHT! Then those apes from Rise of the Planet of Apes come in, see a practically endless supply of simian-approved ammo and start The Great Conquest of Poo. Result: invincible shit flinging apes conquer the world! Thousand years later Marky Mark flies in and soils his model-underpants.

Isn't that, like, the mostest awesomest scenario EVUH?!?

[Stofsk]

This thread is now one shitpost away from getting punted down to Testing.

Yeah it's a stupid thread, but usually stupid threads die a quiet death. Either engage with the topic or stop posting spam. I'm not singling out anyone, this goes for everyone who has so far participated.

[gamer]

Guy chugs drink, gets in game powers?

You just don't get it.

yeah, I don't get it, why shouldn't that work?

As for STAG not dropping a bomb on Saints HQ you know this is the Saints we are talking about so that probably won't go so well. Kinzie tells the Boss STAG is planning to bomb the HQ, Boss gets in an airplane to intercept the bomber, Boss and his/her men take out the aircraft escorting the bomber, instead of shooting down the bomber the boss bails out of his/her plane and dives into the cockpit of the bomber killing the pilot, the bomber is then hijacked and landed, the Saints now have a purple, gold, and silver bomber painted with Saints symbols.

[Skywalker_T-65]

It shouldn't work because its a game mechanic. It is like a stimpack in Fallout being able to magically heal a crippled (which implies broken bone) limb. In a versus debate, that is like an 'I win' button. At least, that's what I gather.

(not planning on getting dragged into a debate on game mechanics after all)

[gamer]

It shouldn't work because its a game mechanic. It is like a stimpack in Fallout being able to magically heal a crippled (which implies broken bone) limb. In a versus debate, that is like an 'I win' button. At least, that's what I gather.

(not planning on getting dragged into a debate on game mechanics after all)

I'm a bit confused define gameplay mechanic.

Is the Saints' mind controlling, singing/talking, explosive octopi launcher gameplay mechanics?

Now if you said the Boss's inability to be hurt by fall damage when fully upgraded is a gameplay mechanic I would agree. But then again this is also backed up by cutscenes in the Air Steelport mission the boss decides to go sky diving without a parachute and attempts to dive straight into an oncoming plane headfirst (the plan was to slam into the cockpit and hijack the plane) unfortunately the boss misses and nose dives into the body of the plane as it is going forward but instead of dying (normal humans would probably blow apart IRL) the boss isn't even hurt in the slightest and just grabs on to the plane and rips off an access hatch and jumps in. Later in that same mission after blowing up the cockpit in an accident the Boss jumps into a tank in the cargo bay and drives out of the cargoplane and shoots down the persuing VTOL fighters as he/she is falling from thousands of feet in the air without a parachute eventually the tank reaches the ground and again the Boss isn't even scratched or shaken up in the slightest.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Okay then...that is ludicrous to a whole new level. I mean, I've never played Saints Row...but that is just...wow. That being said, I'm not the best person to define game mechanics (since I've never tried to debate them). But what I meant in the energy drink case, is that no realistic drink can give you superpowers (assuming that's what this one did). Just like no single medicine can insta-fix a broken limb like the stimpack.

Thus, game mechanics. Though, you would want someone else to truly define it.

[Aaron MkII]

SR3s thing is to take Hollywood stereotypes and turn them to eleven.

There is actually a cutscene commercial that has Pierce down a Saints Flow, beat up five guys and destroy a basketball net.

[Connor MacLeod]

Oh god...For TT or the Dark Heresy stuff?

Oh I misread this. the Dark Heresy critical hit charts. you know the ones where people run around screaming on fire or their have the marrow in their bones explosively vaporize and create bone shrapnel? FEAR THE CALCS

Of course, there are problems with taking them as valid firepower figures, mainly in the inconsistency. Much like with Fallout (IIRC) the burn to ash/blowing apart stuff only kicks in when you do a certain level of damage, meaning its not a consistent result from the weapon. Game mechanics is one explanation of course to reconcile it (and it works, even though it may seem counter-intuitive), but even if someone insisted on a 'literal' interpretations the problems would remain, and it would not reflect firepower. Maybe the guy blows apart or gets burnt to a crisp because his ammo or a battery gets hit, or something. Or maybe its a hallucination.

There's lots of ways to explain something, and its not something you can always apply absolutes to.

[gamer]

Okay then...that is ludicrous to a whole new level. I mean, I've never played Saints Row...but that is just...wow. That being said, I'm not the best person to define game mechanics (since I've never tried to debate them). But what I meant in the energy drink case, is that no realistic drink can give you superpowers (assuming that's what this one did). Just like no single medicine can insta-fix a broken limb like the stimpack.

Thus, game mechanics. Though, you would want someone else to truly define it.

But videogames aren't real. Take Fallout for example radiation should not produce the mutated creatures you see in game, in real life radiation just makes corpses or sickly cancer ridden people, and if you are extremely lucky you get nothing, but super-strength, giant ants, and such are impossible. Plasma guns melting flesh is also unrealistic so stimpacks healing broken bones really isn't out of place. Saints Flow providing super powers isn't really out of place either in Saints Row 3 with all the other craziness that happens on a daily basis.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Oh I know that, but that was still a WTF moment, considering that even in videogames that is crazy. Of course, the drink may not be out of place, but the plane-jump was very crazy.

[Connor MacLeod]

It doesn't have to be either or. The fact its a 'video game' does not arbitrarily mean that suddenly we're forced to decide 'ITS ALL REAL' or 'ITS ALL FAKE' there are degrees between the two.

Case in point: With Star Wars the artwork of Luke Skywalker (or other movie characters) might be similiar but not identical to the guy we see in the movie. Especially in comic books. That doesn't mean we're suddenly forced to adopt some convoluted explanation to figure out why the two conflict. (Ship size inconisstencies, sound in space, and a number of other issues can fall into a similar category.) It's rarely either/or, and there are lots of possible explanations (or interpretations - one also has to recall that people won't look at a piece of evidence the same way, or use the same approach, and that has to be taken into account as well.) that can fit, even if they're not the particular interpretation you might favor. Hell, I've made this very mistake lots of times in the past, because it seems counter-intuitive (how can you declare something game mechanics and still stay 'in universe?')

[Lord Revan]

Well it can be tricky to tell gamemechanics and "story abilities" apart, especially if the game is "silly" to begin with like Saint's Row (aka you're not meant to take it too seriously), so it's best to err on the side of caution unless you're sure about which category something belongs to.

For example in FFXIII there's an ability called launch (it might have been in previous FF games too but the demo for FFXIII-2 was the most recent FF game I've played), that allows the characters to punt the enemy (even multi-ton mechs) several times their own height and jump after now I'd dismiss this as gamemechanics unless there was indication the characters could do feats of superstrenght like that outside of the in-game combat (or use their abilties to make it seem like that).

It doesn't have to be either or. The fact its a 'video game' does not arbitrarily mean that suddenly we're forced to decide 'ITS ALL REAL' or 'ITS ALL FAKE' there are degrees between the two.

good point, sometimes, something can be "in-universe" but exagrated for gameplay purposes, for example there might be a ressurection spell "in-universe" but it's success rate is something like 0.0000001% while in-game it works everytime, it's complex to say the least and not very easy to explain.

[Connor MacLeod]

Silly will matter depending on how you approach it or not. For some it will matter and some it won't. If its silly then it probably can't be discussed except in purely arbitrary terms - thus no conclusions are possible. Such as like WB cartoons - you could probably try to construct an explanation for it, but you don't HAVE to do it to explain it.

But some things can also be simple to explain. With dialogue there is always the option that the person is not taken literally or seriously (and it can happen, and even be required to happen. Not every case of 'vaporization' should be taken literally -OMGHESAIDIT!) and with visuals there's always different options: SFX fuckup or sloppy editing (sound in space), or you could invoke 'hallucination' - I think about most of the Final Fantasy summons or super attacks like Meteor, and 'hallucination' or 'illusion' is what comes to mind for me. Same thing with that 'Energy Drink' bit - I'm betting some of that could be chalked up to something other than reality if need be (chemicals in the drink, maybe?) I'm not saying that's how it IS either, because it depends entirely on the context, but it's quite clear you don't have to settle on 'real/not real' across the board.

History textbooks could be another example that breaks an 'either/or' paradigm. IT's quite possible (and has happened) for bias and revisionism to skew the information in a history textbook, and that distorts its reliability. But that does not mean the history textbook as a whole is automatically a useless source or should be tossed out. What oyu would do is consult other sources and compare and contrast the information, and try to determine where the slants in bias are. Games as a 'source' have their own particular flaws and problems that have to be addressed - you couldn't just assume 'totally accurate recreation/simulator' - I doubt everyone is going to assume that either (same way they won't treat a movie as an 'in-universe historical document'. That's where interpretation and POV become issues.)

The prior TA vs 40k debate had that 'either/or' problem as well (re the windmills, geothermal and solar power vs the hypothetical 'gigatons'. Or rather, one specific interpretation of how the 'gigatons' was applied.)

[Stark]

They're even more useless because of realities of production; the sacred cutscenes that are 'more true' for some reason are often made early before all kind of things are changed or by a different team that isn't paying attention. It isn't just the famously inaccurate ME cutscenes; it's every game where levels were cut or narratives changed after cutscenes were made.

In short analysing a video game is stupid and analysing a joke game where eveything happens for lols is even worse.

PS declaring FF summons NON CANON is absolutely hilarious when they're generally a core part of the world.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Which is why I'm not trying to debate this. I was just pointing out what I thought was the flaw in the energy drink thing, and got sucked in. That being said, unless someone asks me a direct question I'm bowing out of this thread. No point in embarrassing myself arguing something I'm not qualified to argue.

[Stark]

I think Connor is speaking in general terms, since gamer is obsessed with 'analysing' video games. Apply the sacred SOD to a video game to discover the true gigatons might be a fools' errand.

[gamer]

They're even more useless because of realities of production; the sacred cutscenes that are 'more true' for some reason are often made early before all kind of things are changed or by a different team that isn't paying attention. It isn't just the famously inaccurate ME cutscenes; it's every game where levels were cut or narratives changed after cutscenes were made.

In short analysing a video game is stupid and analysing a joke game where eveything happens for lols is even worse.

PS declaring FF summons NON CANON is absolutely hilarious when they're generally a core part of the world.

Why is analysing video games stupid (which reminds me Stark if analysing gameplay is stupid in the TA vs Wh40k debate why all of a sudden there analysing things outside of gameplay is stupid?)?

Anyway in Saints Row cutscenes actually match the gameplay, I don't see why we can't take feats displayed in game and in cutscenes if that is the only thing we have and there isn't any conflict between them. As for Saints Flow considering they have the tech to create zombies and mind control talking octopi Saints Flow is actually sensible. If its because you think its silly you have to realize most games, movies, etc. aren't all that realistic take WH40k for example, they got space orks that can make superfast tanks by painting it red, Orks can even continue to fire their guns even without any actual ammunition. Spacemarines that breathe in space, guardsmen can charge lasguns by placing the battery in a fire, Leman Russ tanks can be fueled with wood, psychic powers in existence and just a whole laundry list of general silliness.

[Aaron MkII]

Wood gas generators actually exist you know.