New Doctor Who episode to be called.....

[Stark]

It's not my fault you don't have the facility to distinguish 'good' from 'bad'. RTD can take his ideas from wherever; he used them in a show watched by millions and not audios sold to compulsive brand slaves. His re-framing of Genesis and Remembersnce doesn't make them less crap either.

Recommending someone read Apocalypse Element should be a goddamn war crime. This poor fool should understand that the vague plot running through those terible novels were long before the show re-emerged, and there's a damn good reason why the show didn't go into detail. The End of Time was disgustingly terrible but at least it thumbed its nose at the novels, which are even worse.

[The Imperator]

It's not my fault you don't have the facility to distinguish 'good' from 'bad'. RTD can take his ideas from wherever; he used them in a show watched by millions and not audios sold to compulsive brand slaves. His re-framing of Genesis and Remembersnce doesn't make them less crap either.

Recommending someone read Apocalypse Element should be a goddamn war crime. This poor fool should understand that the vague plot running through those terible novels were long before the show re-emerged, and there's a damn good reason why the show didn't go into detail. The End of Time was disgustingly terrible but at least it thumbed its nose at the novels, which are even worse.

It thumbed its nose at no novels, but now we are off topic. Yes, the novels can be crappy, but some are actually quite good. I enjoy Lawrence Miles' novels for Doctor Who. I can tell the difference between the crap and the non-crap. Many novels by Virgin publishing can be crap, because they were a way for authors to break into writing, and often rushed. But whatever, to each his own

[koputusx]

I just asked, because I found the time war thing interesting, and everything I know about it I know from movies. But I trust your opinion stark. And I suppose one thing which made it interesting was that it was talked about little, which made it somewhat mysterious.

[The Imperator]

On a side note, Stephen Baxter (Xeelee Sequence, Manifold series) is writing a Doctor Who novel set to come out sometime in August, if I remember right. I don't read many of them or buy many, but I think I will buy that one, if only to see what Baxter does to Who.


EDIT: Darn it, can't edit previous post. When I said those audios were good, I meant for feats. I haven't listened to any of them all the way through. I just know the parts that pertain to the Time War. And none of those stories, IIRC, actually gives real info on the Time War, they just are background and set-up for it. The only info that "we" know on the Time War is from an RTD interview -http://forums.syfy.com/index.php?showtopic=1770292.

[Stark]

See? That's the exact attitude I'm laughing at. A story is good 'for feats'. It's got shit acting, shit writing, is dumb as fuck top to bottom - BUT THEY HAD BIG SPLOZIONS. Read it!

K-dude, you can read many of the 90-2005 novels and see time-war business. To their detriment (and to me because they were basically fan fiction) a central element in many of them is just how clever the author can be with time bullshit. They didn't often work because they were so busy lecturing the reader they forgot characters or forced the drama, but the central element in many of them is 'timey wimey'. The 8th Doctor stuff is almost entirely self indulgent in an extreme way, but some people believe they directly lead into the new series.

[evilsoup]

Well the revival series is pretty self-indulgent borderline-fanfiction-level tripe a lot of the time, so maybe those people have a point.

[The Imperator]

See? That's the exact attitude I'm laughing at. A story is good 'for feats'. It's got shit acting, shit writing, is dumb as fuck top to bottom - BUT THEY HAD BIG SPLOZIONS. Read it!

K-dude, you can read many of the 90-2005 novels and see time-war business. To their detriment (and to me because they were basically fan fiction) a central element in many of them is just how clever the author can be with time bullshit. They didn't often work because they were so busy lecturing the reader they forgot characters or forced the drama, but the central element in many of them is 'timey wimey'. The 8th Doctor stuff is almost entirely self indulgent in an extreme way, but some people believe they directly lead into the new series.

I will agree with you on most of that. About the feats thing, I was asked where the info on the Time War was found, and I posted what stories had Time War stuff. I have found a few good books in the Virgin Publishing series, I liked Goth Opera, Love and War (7th Doctor is a bastard), and Lucifer Rising (good character development for Ace and the Doctor). I have liked all the Lawrence Miles books, and I have purchased most of the Faction Paradox series. Beyond that, I haven't read much except to verify claims in debates. Recently I got a hold of (rather cheaply) most of the old Who novels. I am trying to read through them to find the good ones, but often the BBC forced the authors to write the books in less than 5 or 6 months, so they feel rushed. Most of the ones I have read do not have ridiculous hax, they just have stories, and actions based on plot (albeit, sometimes the plot is not good, or way to predictable, but see above). There are relatively few novels that I can think of off the top of my head that have "teh uber hax" in them, but the ones I recall are: Quantum Archangel, Ancestor Cell, Interference I&II, and Dead Romance.

[Stark]

I mean narratively: as mentioned, the 8th (or 'retarded') doctor was involved in similar events that could be seen to parallel the stated events of the time war. It doesn't fit any more, arguably because the show fucked up the concept, but nobody should read inexcusably bad novels to get some greater understanding of events they aren't really related to.

ESPECIALLY the Apocalypse Element.

Imperator, someone gave me some of the 2005 TV show tie in novels, and they were surprisingly good for trashy cash-ins. More drama and less über time cannons than the later book universe, anyway. Love and War is actually a good example of the author forcing their drama too much, but at least it didn't end with AND THEN THE TRIPLE TIME PARADOX SET UP BY ALTERNATE ZOE HERRIOT MADE TEN TRILLION WILLION CYBERDALEKS APPEAR TO SAVE THE ANCIENT LOST SUPER DOCTOR FROM FATED DOOM like every second novel. :v

God, did you listen to that anti-time rassilon audio? How fucking awful was that?

[The Imperator]

I mean narratively: as mentioned, the 8th (or 'retarded') doctor was involved in similar events that could be seen to parallel the stated events of the time war. It doesn't fit any more, arguably because the show fucked up the concept, but nobody should read inexcusably bad novels to get some greater understanding of events they aren't really related to.

ESPECIALLY the Apocalypse Element.

Imperator, someone gave me some of the 2005 TV show tie in novels, and they were surprisingly good for trashy cash-ins. More drama and less über time cannons than the later book universe, anyway. Love and War is actually a good example of the author forcing their drama too much, but at least it didn't end with AND THEN THE TRIPLE TIME PARADOX SET UP BY ALTERNATE ZOE HERRIOT MADE TEN TRILLION WILLION CYBERDALEKS APPEAR TO SAVE THE ANCIENT LOST SUPER DOCTOR FROM FATED DOOM like every second novel. :v

God, did you listen to that anti-time rassilon audio? How fucking awful was that?

Nope, I haven't moved to audios yet, though I have heard of that one. BTW, all that War crap from the Eighth Doctor books - Miles wanted the BBC to leave it alone, leave it out there as a future plot point for years to come (a la Time War), but then the BBC had Ancestor Cell written... and continuity was told to bend over and take it for the next 5 years. And then, as soon as the show came back, RTD told continuity to bend over and take it again because he wanted the War to be back. Right now, I think I am on the 20th NA with the Seventh Doctor, having skipped about 3 or 4 crappy ones, and skimmed another 3 or 4. I have heard only bad things about the new books, and I am hesitant to fork over about $20 for a book I may hate. Any recommendations?

I heard the Gallifrey Audios with Romana were good, what do you know of them?

[Stark]

I have a rule.

If something says WAR QUEEN OF THE TIME LORDS

I ignore it. :v

[The Imperator]

Alright, I will take that into consideration.