Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

Post by Ahriman238 »

Again, Marcus was pretty clearly recovering. During the episode he showed an ability to recognize that Rosen had not, in fact, masterminded everything (which would have been an understandable conclusion for anyone, given that Rosen was the one who got him sent to a secret prison).
After having his nose rubbed in Rosen's ignorance, yes.
They planned to put her in "protective custody" before they knew literally any of this. When Sullivan stated that plan, Skylar was still just being chased by "unknown thugs."
Which is, in fact, a valid reason for putting her into protective custody. At least in the short term.

You'd have better luck pushing that Sullivan was already discussing ways to exploit her abilities, while Rosen was clearly trying to protect Skylar whether she wanted it or not.
The entire team acts as though her view is completely, 100% valid. No one goes "oh come on, the government wouldn't do that" because they all work for the government and know it would do exactly that.
She's a mom and it's her choice. No one on the show specifically denies the existence of flying rainbow hippos either, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for an episode with one.

Besides, it's entirely possible that the NSA (or elements thereof) would do it. The government does not offcially recognize the existence of Alphas or have nay sort of policy in place regarding them. this may be a good thing sometimes (every moment Gary is alive and conscious, wiretapping laws are being broken) but it also means that virtually no one besides Dr., Rosen and his team are looking to prevent government abuse of Alphas and/or their abilities.
1) There are always alternatives.
To confining the dangerously insane? Well, I guess you can shoot them out of hand. I wouldn't say it's a better option but it IS an alternative.

Binghampton was a psychiatric hospital long before it became the de facto prison for Alphas. At least during the first season it seemed fair to assume everyone sent to Binghampton was receiving therapy. Also, we saw why those people ended up in Binghampton, because they hurt people. Some of them killed more than once.
2) If you repeatedly do a bad thing that you think is bad, this is because you have not thought about the alternatives. You do it once, sure, you had no idea it was coming. You do it twice, sure, you had no idea it was a repeat phenomenon. But after a couple times, you have to accept that this is a thing that will keep happening unless you stop it, and then BEFORE A NEW SITUATION ARISES take action to prevent it from happening again. Rosen does not do this. He just acts surprised and sad every time that these situations spiral out of control and wind up with people dead or in an illegal holding facility.
Rosen tried. He showed great personal courage (given what the government can do to you for breaking NDAs) in revealing the existence of the Alpha program and calling on the American people to force the government to behave ethically. And the American People gave a resounding 'meh.'

Again, what are his alternatives to sending crazy and dangerous Alphas to Binghampton and praying the situation there isn't as screwed up as he knows it is?
3) You act like the only reason to do bad things is because you enjoy them. A character who does bad things because he thinks they are right is much more sympathetic than a character who recognizes that the things he is doing are bad but just keeps doing them... because. A character who does bad things and doesn't care is well known to be "cool" (see for example: Spike, every other bad boy character ever).
Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. My mind skipped right past 'misguided' as reason for a person to do evil things and not feel bad.

I wouldn't say, at all, that a misguided character who does ill is any more sympathetic or interesting than a character who does ill because he sees no alternative. But that comes down to personal taste.
People have to take responsibility for their own behavior. You can't blame literally everything that the government does on Red Flag. That's ridiculous.
Who's talking about everything the government does? I'm sure the government does tons of things that don't relate at all to the Alphas or WoT (which the show increasingly seems an allegory for.) I do however, hold that all of the things the government does specifically in response to Red Flag's terrorism is... wait for it... in response to Red Flag's terrorism. That doesn't excuse the abuses in the least, but it helps to explain them.

That, and it rather firmly shuts down the notion of Red Flag being the 'good guys.' They are the instigators of this conflict, whatever their motives (and I believe a fear of Black Helicopters features big there) and they are consistently the ones escalating things.
The MKUltra project was a great big war crime (against Alphas) which no one was tried for.
MKUltra, which IRL was a cold war CIA project studying the possibilities of brainwashing, here seems to have been a sort of "supersoldier program." In which Stanton Parish was head researcher. Permit me to repeat, Parish was in charge. Any crimes committed were committed by him, and decades later he had everyone involved killed to prevent any of them from ID-ing him (and possibly to keep them silent about other, undocumented things he did in this time.)
So the United States government doesn't employ any assassins?
They may well be coming. But who, in this TV series, have the feds assassinated?
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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Oh, and new episode tonight, "Gaslight."
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

Post by Alkaloid »

I do have to wonder what's going on in the rest of the world in this show. I mean, there's no environmental factor that creates Alphas, they don't seem to be related to each other in any real way, they're just people with unusual talents, some of which are very noticeable or different. Given Parish exists, Alphas aren't really a new phenomenon, and I can totally see figures from history like Achilles or Hercules or similar mythical heroes being based on someone like Hicks or Cameron, or someone who can do what Nina does being looked at like a goddess or a witch. So why the fuck are doctors and psychologists not reporting these really really strange patients they're seeing? Unless there is a global conspiracy between all medical professionals who have seen them, or an organised campaign of suppression by all governments the world over, alphas really should be, well, not regarded as a homogeneous group, because they really aren't, but also more or less public knowledge.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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Alkaloid wrote:I do have to wonder what's going on in the rest of the world in this show. I mean, there's no environmental factor that creates Alphas, they don't seem to be related to each other in any real way, they're just people with unusual talents, some of which are very noticeable or different. Given Parish exists, Alphas aren't really a new phenomenon, and I can totally see figures from history like Achilles or Hercules or similar mythical heroes being based on someone like Hicks or Cameron, or someone who can do what Nina does being looked at like a goddess or a witch. So why the fuck are doctors and psychologists not reporting these really really strange patients they're seeing? Unless there is a global conspiracy between all medical professionals who have seen them, or an organised campaign of suppression by all governments the world over, alphas really should be, well, not regarded as a homogeneous group, because they really aren't, but also more or less public knowledge.
Possibly the development of Alphas is comparatively recent, and a process that's actually accelerating over time. Parish's powers are clearly not inheritable, but this may or may not be true for other Alphas. Or Alphas have always been there, largely unrecognized or shuffled away as madmen because of the various disorders that seem to come with Alpha gifts. If someone developed, say Gary's power in the 16th Century, how would he or anyone else know? Maybe it's only now that anyone is seriously studying the phenomena as new technology and techniques become available.

As an aside, I understand what you meant, but you really shouldn't say something like "historical figures like Achilles or Hercules" on this board. That's just asking for it.

Actually, the whole Alpha Phenomena seems like a collection of unrelated medical anomalies. Which are what every Alpha we've seen is, taken alone. Those have always been around.



Alright, this weeks episode, Gaslight, more than a bit scary with excellent myth-arc stuff. So hospitals have started using the scanners that possibly gave Eli his powers (he seemed to think so) which Parish saw to the testing and approval of. My first guess, shot in the dark, is that the scanners were designed to activate latent Alpha abilities. Parish also has a US Senator in his pocket.

I'm a trifle more interested in the last shot. Could Anna have faked her own death? If not, who is impersonating her? Why send Gary what I can only assume is a warning?
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Its only in the last 10-15 years that we've gotten the technology to detect most of the brain activity that seems to power alpha phenomena. In the show they mentioned MK-Ultra had done some investigative work on alphas, and Parish was involved in that, but they didn't get far.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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Was anyone able to see what the email said that he sent at the end said?
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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dragon wrote:Was anyone able to see what the email said that he sent at the end said?
The email was from Anna_lives. It said "The Revolution is Coming."
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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It looked like a tweet. I think Gary is taking over Anna's branch of Red Flag.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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CaptainChewbacca wrote:It looked like a tweet. I think Gary is taking over Anna's branch of Red Flag.
Chilling. I didn't even think of that. It would make sense in the context of Gary's remarks right before, that he's found his own way of honoring Anna. I'm not sure Gary's cut out to be a terrorist, or even a rabble-rouser.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

I don't think Gary realizes what he's doing is even wrong, if he's just carrying on in Anna's memory. This week's episode was pretty crazy, from the Alpha colony to the 'evolution' in a few of the main characters' abilities. Gary learning to enjoy listening to pulsars was pretty endearing.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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Flashing Scipio with the Stimulator probably falls under the heading of "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

Seeing the world through Gary's eyes is always entertaining, usually because there's so much going on. This was different, and I liked it.

I get the feeling Dr. Rosen didn't make a lot of friends, even after helping a bit with the evacuation.

Really, Show? You're going to make it ambiguous whether Skylar joins Red Flag?

On thought, we didn't see anything besides vaguely ominous statements. If all Gary's doing to carry on in Anna's memory is a few inflammatory messages, that's not a big deal. Until Dr. Rosen, or Clay, or Parish find out about it.

So we know what the Stimulator does, it drastically boosts Alpha abilities, and in Rachel and Scipio's cases at least, seems to increase control as well. Another man would likely hoard such a device to empower his followers or friends, but it seems clear that Parish isn't building an Army, but a People.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

Post by Alkaloid »

So, I liked the last episode a lot. Parish and Rosen are really, really well matched as antagonists.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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*sigh*

Definite Darwin Award for the two guards. Were they not told they were guarding a man who comes back from the dead? Did they not understand 'don't open the door?' Did they forget they could radio for instructions?

Poor Jason seems to have no luck at all. Hopefully Dr. Rosen can help him with his 'creeps everyone out' problem.

I assume from the last scene that Rosen has figured out about Dani. Question is, what is he going to do about it?

Also, a blackout somehow features in Parish's future plans.

I admit, I have trouble seeing how winning here would have helped Parish in any meaningful way.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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I think the attempt to recruit Rosen was genuine, even if Parish went in thinking it was a long shot.

Beyond that, everything going Parishes way would have him with more knowledge of Rosens team, at the moment the group that are the biggest threat to his plans, and possible recruiting/killing some of them if the opportunity came up, and a temporary cult in a can whenever he needed it, consisting of whoever he wants and that can not be easily shut down by Alphas or by drugs. He got the look a Rosens team, which is a win for him, didn't get Jason, which is a loss, and revealed some information because as much as Rosen underestimated him, he also underestimated Rosen. Like I said, really well matched as antagonists.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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I mostly meant mind-control of a mob that will lapse into comas within a couple days anyway. Assuming the same didn't happen to him, which does seem unlikely the way they portrayed it. It still seems like a lot of risk for a very specific, very limited reward.

I don't think Parish expected to recruit Dr. Rosen today, this was just more spadework for the offer he means to make in the future. Of course, the more Parish shares information about himself, his perspective and his goals, the more dangerous Dr. Rosen becomes to him, and now Rosen knows he's being recruited, which I'm pretty sure Parish never meant for him to figure out. As you say, Alkaloid, they both underestimated each other to their detriment. It'll be interesting to see who made the most ground out of this encounter.

I don't think it was such a plus for Parish to see the team in person. Even if the assassin from the pilot never reported to him, he's had the team under surveillance (via Dani) for a while. He knows who everyone is and what they can do. And think of what he paid for this opportunity. Up until now, Clay (the closest thing we see to a representation of the government's views) has been outright dismissive of Rosens imaginary '200 year-old Alpha bogeyman.' Now they have the bogeyman on tape (the team already had his photo, but it's nice evidence to anyone else) and two dead bodies.

I was struck watching this by the connection between the two men. They aren't a retread of the Professor X/Magneto relationship, though there were connotations of that in their mindscape duel, playing angel/devil on the shoulder to Jason. More it's that these two men are theo nly experts on the Alpha phenomena that exist anywhere, and they're both very driven and (strangely in Parish's case) very compassionate men. Doctors both.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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I really liked this week's episode, even though it was almost exclusively character drama. Dr Rosen, Cameron, and Kat's personal struggles were very engaging.

Also, Kat has been exploited exactly, well, the way you'd expect someone with her issues to be exploited.

My only complaint is that the three plots didn't really tie together. It's still a strong episode, it just could have been stronger.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

Post by Alkaloid »

Yeah, good character stuff, I wasn't a huge fan because most of the abilities we have seen so far have been less outlandish than the ability to take that sort of hit with virtually nil consequences and I kind of liked that. Same with the drugs thing, that just seems more unlikely than anything else we have seen so far.

That said, the Gary and Bill being partners thing is great, but has some real competition from Gary and Kat now. That was funny.

Also, I half suspect Bill is going to try to hang onto some tabs of rush for the next time he goes up against his evil doppelganger, god knows what it will do to his heart.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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Gary "They're in cahoots!", Gary really saves the show for me. Rachel drama is really badly done and her character gets worse and worse other than to sub in for a microscope. Good thing they mentioned sending Kat to get training because that was pretty bad for first time out, maybe it was watching tv cop dramas to get "proficient" wasn't a good idea. Just in general they act too much like a ragtag group than professionals, with emotional stuff getting in the way even though they see the real danger rogue alphas can do.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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Meest wrote:Gary "They're in cahoots!", Gary really saves the show for me. Rachel drama is really badly done and her character gets worse and worse other than to sub in for a microscope. Good thing they mentioned sending Kat to get training because that was pretty bad for first time out, maybe it was watching tv cop dramas to get "proficient" wasn't a good idea. Just in general they act too much like a ragtag group than professionals, with emotional stuff getting in the way even though they see the real danger rogue alphas can do.
On the one hand, she learns things impossibly quickly. On the other hand, she forgets everything but learned skills VERY quickly. She was cocky, and got way too emotionally involved. It's almost like she learned undercover work from watching cop shows.

Last season we had ongoing conflict between Bill's desire to get his friends training that would keep them safe and Dr. Rosen's desire that his team be something more than another team of armed federal goons. Near the end, Dr. Rosen had to shoot and kill a mind-controlling Alpha to save a number of lives, and shortly after the season wrapped with no apparent resolution to the conflict. It hasn't come up at all this season, nor do I expect it to with all the threads that have come up.

Bill is FBI, and the one who is constantly hammering at the team to be more organized, more disciplined. Cameron is ex-military, though he claims the 'ex' should tell you all you know about his following orders he generally does what he's told if it's Bill or Dr. Rosen doing the telling. Nina trusts Dr. Rosen to do what he says, most of the time. Same with Rachel. The idea of Gary following orders is pretty much laughable, but he can be managed. They all can, if it's done right. That was the point of the first episode of the new series, the team needs careful managing of their abilities, flaws, and personalities and Dr. Rosen is the only man who can do it.

Well, Bill's learned to do it a bit with Gary, but it's been an... interesting process for both of them. Remember that Dr. Rosen isn't just their leader, he's their therapist who helps Nina with her impulse-control issues, Rachel with her sensory and assertiveness problems, Cameron with his self-esteem, Gary with being Gary etc.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

Post by Ahriman238 »

Wow, it's been a week and I'm still really impressed with how the Dani/Cameron episode went. So many plot threads went into that, enough drama and tons of action. I had to check twice to reassure myself it wasn't the season finale.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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This week's episode was pretty great. This show continues to impress me with character development. It all progresses very naturally and organically, and never seems forced.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Just watched the most recent episode. Dr. Rosen is a BADASS. Burning down the only place Parish feels at home to provoke him? Yikes.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

Post by ryacko »

Alphas appears to become more and more of a horror show.

Same direction smallville went.


Also, inception much?
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

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ryacko wrote:Alphas appears to become more and more of a horror show.

Same direction smallville went.

Also, inception much?
Darker, that's for sure. I seem to remember last season Cameron gave Rosen some good advice about not taking enemy action personally, and it seems to have gone out the window for both of them.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Just watched the most recent episode. Dr. Rosen is a BADASS. Burning down the only place Parish feels at home to provoke him? Yikes.
I can't help but feel that Dr. Rosen is becoming someone he very much would have despised at the shows' beginning. See this episode where he yells at Nina for maybe saving a woman's life, all but writes off the senator as collateral damage, blackmails and threatens said senator, then jails one of Parish's closest friends and burns his house just because these actions will hurt him.

Someone needs to slap some sense back into that man and remind him of a world that exists past his revenge. Bill would seem to be an ideal candidate, which is probably why he isn't privy to all of the backroom dealings all of a sudden.

I'm glad they admitted Parish isn't a sociopath, because that hasn't gelled at all with his actions this season. A fanatic, likely, but not a sociopath. Which begs the question of what price he pays for his immortality.
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Re: Alphas Season 2 Discussion

Post by Alkaloid »

Yeah. Wow. So I was a few weeks behind, just caught up. Holy shit Rosen has gone off the deep end. Cameron I sort of expected to, Rosen I thought might be a bit more clinical about it. Burning down the house I can see, that's the sort of calculating move he might make to unnerve someone, but making an enemy out of a woman he had a better than even chance of bringing on side? You need to think, man. You wont take down Parish with that sort of bullshit.

Bill adopting Garys baby, nice follow up from the first season. Kat is a brutal and calculating motherfucker with a tendency to charge along with a half baked plan never mind the consequences, Cam is still boring and predictable but at least he has motivation and flaws to work on now, boring girl is still boring and confused and repentant Nina is more interesting than last seasons Nina but not as much fun as early season bitchy manipulative Nina. Gary is still awesome.

I get the impression from those grenades that Skyler is in Parishes camp for now, they seem like the sort of thing she would have cooked up during her NSA days, which I think puts her as Garys opposite on Parishes team. Goes with Ninas creepy pusher double, Bills other super strength guy, Cam and Scipio interestingly enough seem to match up and I'm thinking mind rippy open girl, Agnes I think her name was, and whatserface. Only one of that particular rogues galery is Bills, because they're at one all now but Bills double doesn't seem to be in Bills league smarts wise, which makes him a bit boring.

Also good to see other groups of alphas/people who are aware of alphas starting to crop up. My too many people with super strength alarm is going off though, it's liable to get boring even if most uses of it thus far have been relatively creative for this sort of show.
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