Iron Man 3 *SPOILERS*

[EnterpriseSovereign]

It wasn't palladium remember, major plot point of the last film was him having to find a substitute since it was poisoning him

[Ford Prefect]

I suppose to me it devalues the significance of the suits which to me are a core part of Iron Man- it's the source of his superhero powers.

Well, that's the theme. To quote myself ....

I actually liked it better than either of the two previous films, because the film was actually about Tony coming to terms with himself as a person and what being 'Iron Man' meant to him, and how it had been a psychological crutch in the past but was doing him more harm than good now. Like the way in which the Mk 42 is pretty much a failure which never operates as intended (even its one success is tempered by getting hit by that truck and being taken out of action for ages) is thematically emblematic of how the suits can't fix Tony's life. Like it can't even successfully ice Aldritch with a suicide attack. The sense of finality is appropriate and not half-assed.

[Simon_Jester]

See I did not get that. I didn't see any 'hacking', just Tony borrowing Rhodes credentials and getting access to the videos about as fast as you'd get access to mine if you knew my YouTube password. If they'd made it clear that Rhodes suit was upgraded by AIM (again, I totally missed that) I could absolutely see control being overridden and the suit just flying to wherever they tell it. But it seems absurd they can shut down the communications, GPS etc (while presumably flying it directly to Florida) and yet not have it simply spit Rhodes out. Also at the end it seems to revert control back to Rhodes (even when he's not wearing it!). And it was clearly a different suit to the original Warmachine suit- that was not a simple repaint/rearm.

They may have kept a mechanical lockout or interlock to stop the pilot from being accidentally ejected- that would be a fairly obvious design feature of the suit, "fail-safe" rather than "fail-deadly." So control over the software may not have allowed them to eject the pilot, any more than taking over the engine computer in an automobile would let you engage the parking brake.

[Kojiro]

But if he can't move, how would he deactivate this mechanical lock? How does he eject the President so easily?

It also seems odd that they'd lock him in there- it would mean a wounded and unconscious/delirious pilot would be an absolute bitch to apply medical aid to.

Well, that's the theme. To quote myself ....

As a stand alone I can totally see that. After Avengers...

Tony Stark: You know, I've got a cluster of shrapnel, trying every second to crawl its way into my heart.
[Stark points at the mini-arc reactor in his chest]
Tony Stark: This stops it. This little circle of light. It's part of me now, not just armor. It's a... terrible privilege.
Bruce Banner: But you can control it.
Tony Stark: Because I learned how.

Bolding mine. I'll grant you it seems like a largely off screen bit of character development but it's there. At this point Stark has gone from a playboy weapons contractor to a devoted partner and philanthropist working on clean energy. He's realised that being Iron Man- and what happened to him to get that arc reactor in his chest- on the balance of it is a good thing. That the Tony Stark that exists today is a better man than the one a few years back. Avengers Stark is willing to lay down his life- to lose his fortune, his future and Pepper- to save others. He makes the team play, proving Captain America wrong. IM3 Stark throws that hero away- he hangs up his cape so to speak. And as much as he ends with 'I am Iron Man' it's a lie. Removing the (not palladium- my error) reactor, destroying the suits and committing to Pepper are all demonstrations of that. From my perspective there is character development in IM3 but it's negative in so much as Stark is supposed to be a hero. Heroes don't get to hand it all up and have happy lives- especially not when they've got at least one more big thing to accomplish.

[Stark]

In narrative terms, why not? If he chooses life, how does this fly in the face of him 'supposed to be a hero'? He comes to terms with his problems and grows as a person. Sounds good to me.

[Alkaloid]

Stark didn't stop being iron man, that's the point. The things he went through changed him, and he doesn't need the suits or the shrapnel/reactor physically linking him to them to be iron man, iron man has become partTony stark. We know that he will almost certainly build another suit, big he doesn't. All he knows is that he is a better person facing an uncertain world an he has the courage to do it on his own now.

Also, how was it clear iron patriot was a new suit. It was quite clear it was the same suit, because stark and Rhodes called it a reskin, and war machine, several times.

[Kojiro]

Don't get me wrong, not every hero needs to wear a costume/suit (or have super powers). From a narrative perspective though this feels (at least to me) that it's closing the book on his super hero career. Let's not kid ourselves, he's destroying millions (possibly billions) in hardware and undergoing dangerous major surgery here, as well as committing to someone who wants 'out' of that whole scene. It's not the same as packing up and locking the door to the Batcave. He's no more Iron Man now than he was a weapons manufacturer at the end of IM1. Sure, he could make a new suit but he could just as easily start selling weapons again. Either one would be character regression since we've seen previously he's changed the way he feels about such things.

To use an analogy, imagine the next Thor movie ends with him handing over Mjolnir, moving to Earth and becoming human. This is a perfectly acceptable narrative but Thor the Norse God of Thunder is no more. It's a fine end but we're not at the end yet. In the context of a larger shared continuity it's a terrible idea.

Assuming IM appears in Avengers 2, there's going to be at least some portion of the movie devoted to justifying why he's building suits again (and how he's powering them). This will get us right back to where we left him at the end of Avengers.

Speaking of Avengers 2, I personally will be wondering why suits at all since there doesn't appear to be any practical reason for him to pilot them anymore. I imagine removing the pilot makes several things much easier.

Also, how was it clear iron patriot was a new suit. It was quite clear it was the same suit, because stark and Rhodes called it a reskin, and war machine, several times.

I know they said that but just look at them side by side. Those are clearly not the same suit, to say nothing of the fact that Warmachine is an up armed MK2 Iron Man. It never possessed the crack apart entry/exit thing. It took a special platform and like six robot arms to put that thing on and screw on some of the solid plates. For something to come apart like that it has to be designed to do it from the start. But as I said above, I disagree that he's still Iron Man. He was, but now he's retired.

[NeoGoomba]

Seems like Stark abandoning the armor yet still calling himself Iron Man is similar to what Alfred was trying to get across to Bruce Wayne in DKR, that he can still be a hero without the costume. His resources, his intelligence, and his willingness to use them for the common good can trump any gains he can make by donning a suit of armor and punching people. If the Iron Man persona was a crutch for Stark (much like Batman for Wayne in the movies), him transcending that psychological need is the completion of his character arc. Now he can put on a suit of Iron Man armor because OTHERS need him too, not because HE needs to.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Well if you no longer want pilots for the suits, you get the drones from IM2 since they started off as armoured suits that were then converted. Stark is going to have to rebuild from scratch, if he goes down the drone route he no longer needs to stick with the humanoid design. Of course then it really wouldn't be an Iron Man suit anymore but something else entirely, unless he creates an entirely separate suit design for his own use. This would be in the same way that War Machine was to the Hammer drones.

Incidentally this would explain some of the changes to WM/IP- since the Hammer weaponry was decidedly inferior to the Stark equivalent (the so-called bunker buster that was a dud and simply bounced off the bad guy!) it makes sense that the guns would be replaced by something better.

[Nephtys]

This movie was entertaining, but also really... well. Disjointed. Nothing really fit together. There wasn't even an overall theme.

So the Mandarin was a fake. Fine. It'd be incredibly dumb if Iron Man's opponent was a freaking chinese wizard. But again, Iron Man's new enemies of choice are apparently evil technology company executives. But it makes no sense that Killian 'ran it all' including that shit in the first movie with the Afgan terror cells. What on earth would he possibly gain from terrorists, and working in cahoots with Stane?

Seriously, the motivation for this insane plot is what? To sell a product and have the ear of the vice president? That's idiotic. To do such widespread irrational things, it needs to be a lot bigger to make sense.

This movie just was going through the motions. Why was Rhodes even in this film? Did Stark really need another demon to battle? Really, a cute wunderkind character? etc.

[Flagg]

I liked it quite a bit. Easily the best of the IM movies. I liked how he was forced to pay for his past sins (extremis) while coming to terms with the fact that he's not the same person he used to be. Also how we got Tony Stark instead of Iron Man since the suits were almost totally useless against the extremis soldiers.

[Srelex]

This movie was entertaining, but also really... well. Disjointed. Nothing really fit together. There wasn't even an overall theme.

So the Mandarin was a fake. Fine. It'd be incredibly dumb if Iron Man's opponent was a freaking chinese wizard. But again, Iron Man's new enemies of choice are apparently evil technology company executives. But it makes no sense that Killian 'ran it all' including that shit in the first movie with the Afgan terror cells. What on earth would he possibly gain from terrorists, and working in cahoots with Stane?

That bugged me too at first, but I guess you could say that Kilian just 'co-opted' the group after they were shot by Stane in the first film.

[Flagg]

When did he say he worked with Jeff Bridges? All the terrorist shit in IM3 was faked.

[Alkaloid]

The Mandarin and the ten rings were entirely unrelated. They just threw the names in as a nod to the comics, same as iron patriot.

[Kojiro]

When did he say he worked with Jeff Bridges? All the terrorist shit in IM3 was faked.

The 10 Rings (named for the 10 rings worn by the Mandarin) appear in IM1 and again at the end of IM2. Granted it doesn't mean Killian and Stane ever directly worked together but there is a link there. If Killian is running the 10 Rings (and claims to have created it) he was likely at least aware his organisation was hired to kill Stark. What makes no sense is that they're established in IM1 which is at least a few years before IM3 when people are starting to blow up. 'Better make an international terrorist organisation in case I need to blame some shit on them in a few years.'

Though this makes me wonder why Stark was spared at all (especially if Killian doesn't like him). Ostensibly to build Jericho missiles but Stane goes and ships them to the terrorists anyway (only for Tony to later destroy them as Iron Man).

Well if you no longer want pilots for the suits, you get the drones from IM2 since they started off as armoured suits that were then converted. Stark is going to have to rebuild from scratch, if he goes down the drone route he no longer needs to stick with the humanoid design. Of course then it really wouldn't be an Iron Man suit anymore but something else entirely, unless he creates an entirely separate suit design for his own use.

Well I can't see why he would pilot the suit. Note I can certainly see him building a suit for personal use (cos flying is still gonna be fun as, among other things). But that's just it- he's destroyed the suits (or as some people think his crutch) and grown. At the end of the day it's the same as our current drones. Why risk a pilot when you can use a drone?

[Admiral Valdemar]

If the trouble ever comes to you, a suit is useful. It's no good having drones if someone can just snipe you in the head. It's a personal defence thing.

[Kuja]

For those talking about the "Wasted Potential" of The Mandarin...

Let us be hounest for a moment, the Mandarin as bad guy has always been a bit "Silly"
In the comics he runs from mystical Sorcerer with magical powers to crazed warlord with ancient alien technology. No matter what you did with him it was going to be problimatic.

I would have liked to see them try and tackle him. The Marvel movies have pulled off "Norse gods in shiny armor but for real" with Thor and Loki, fuck they managed to get a decent movie out of "guy in flag suit fights dude with skull face." I was looking forward to said crazed warlord with ancient alien technology. As entertaining as Ben Kingsley was (it's Ben Kingsley man, the guy is a master) I was rather disappointed I didn't get a silly wizard.

The Mandarin could have played into that whole sublot about Tony having panic attacks over the "omg aliens freaking gods holy shit waah" deal in the Avengers. Suddenly he's put up against a man with stolen ancient-alien magic, a living incarnation of that existential crisis. Instead it's just sort of dropped when the kid tells him to get over it.

Guy Pearce's villain was about as interesting as paper. It felt like they had a bunch of ideas for this guy, but they ultimately didn't develop any of them. There's the whole burned-by-Tony-Stark bit, then the crush-on-Pepper bit, then they play around with the whole "deal under the table / new world order" bits that Obadiah Stane already played around with in the first movie. Then there's that "anyone could be a villain," with that little speech about anonymity, but they don't really do much with that, either. Oh yeah, and superpowers or something.

I didn't overly care much for the plot as a whole. It felt a bit like someone said "okay we need to wrap up Tony's stuff just in case we don't get RDJ back, so uhhhh, let's take that whole 'mystical eastern badass is actually a fake front for a western villain' from Batman Begins, right, and let's mix that with say, uh, the whole 'you can't wear the costume forever' deal from DKR, that's good, oh are we gonna have Rhodes in this one? Eh, he can just fly wing for a little bit and rescue the president and leave."

I wasn't sold on the ending either, the whole "give Pepper powers, okay now we take them away again" plus the bit about how now Tony has surgery and chucks the old reactor away because...uh...deep. The movie was okay, but it felt like it was trying to forcibly insert depth where it wasn't needed, and the plot just felt muddled.

[Flagg]

For those talking about the "Wasted Potential" of The Mandarin...

Let us be hounest for a moment, the Mandarin as bad guy has always been a bit "Silly"
In the comics he runs from mystical Sorcerer with magical powers to crazed warlord with ancient alien technology. No matter what you did with him it was going to be problimatic.

I would have liked to see them try and tackle him. The Marvel movies have pulled off "Norse gods in shiny armor but for real" with Thor and Loki, fuck they managed to get a decent movie out of "guy in flag suit fights dude with skull face." I was looking forward to said crazed warlord with ancient alien technology. As entertaining as Ben Kingsley was (it's Ben Kingsley man, the guy is a master) I was rather disappointed I didn't get a silly wizard.

The Mandarin could have played into that whole sublot about Tony having panic attacks over the "omg aliens freaking gods holy shit waah" deal in the Avengers. Suddenly he's put up against a man with stolen ancient-alien magic, a living incarnation of that existential crisis. Instead it's just sort of dropped when the kid tells him to get over it.

Guy Pearce's villain was about as interesting as paper. It felt like they had a bunch of ideas for this guy, but they ultimately didn't develop any of them. There's the whole burned-by-Tony-Stark bit, then the crush-on-Pepper bit, then they play around with the whole "deal under the table / new world order" bits that Obadiah Stane already played around with in the first movie. Then there's that "anyone could be a villain," with that little speech about anonymity, but they don't really do much with that, either. Oh yeah, and superpowers or something.

I didn't overly care much for the plot as a whole. It felt a bit like someone said "okay we need to wrap up Tony's stuff just in case we don't get RDJ back, so uhhhh, let's take that whole 'mystical eastern badass is actually a fake front for a western villain' from Batman Begins, right, and let's mix that with say, uh, the whole 'you can't wear the costume forever' deal from DKR, that's good, oh are we gonna have Rhodes in this one? Eh, he can just fly wing for a little bit and rescue the president and leave."

I wasn't sold on the ending either, the whole "give Pepper powers, okay now we take them away again" plus the bit about how now Tony has surgery and chucks the old reactor away because...uh...deep. The movie was okay, but it felt like it was trying to forcibly insert depth where it wasn't needed, and the plot just felt muddled.

I don't agree with you, but at least you're not herp derping about stupid bullshit only the fattest of nerds care about.

[Kuja]

I don't agree with you, but at least you're not herp derping about stupid bullshit only the fattest of nerds care about.

Honestly, I didn't find the movie bad. It was entertaining, the action was good, the humor was good, a couple of the villains (like the chick with the scarred face) had some good presence, it had a decent child character. Honestly, I think my biggest beef with Iron Man 3 is that we got to see that giant Hulkbuster tank-suit...for about two seconds, and all it did was act as a support beam. Man, when that thing charged onto the screen I really wanted to see RDJ clobber something with it.

But really, I was just rather disappointed we didn't get a 'proper' Mandarin. Back before the big Avengers run up, the buzz in the air was "Norse god, really? Dude with a winged helmet, are you serious going to film this?" and Marvel pulled it off. Then people said "Captain America, really? How are you going to make this without being goofy as hell or sounding jinjoistic as shit?" and Marvel made a decent flick. 'The Avengers' is a movie about a giant snake-alien invasion spearheaded by a mind-controlling dude from viking mythos, and that film was fun as fuck.

But it felt like someone said "how are you going to do a "yellow peril mystic ancient-alien sorceror, huh?" and Marvel blinked. Maybe that's accurate, maybe not, but that's how I felt walking out. I would have liked to see a big all-out movie about Tony Stark versus the Mandarin - maybe that's where my disapointment originates. At times Iron Man 3 feels like an espionage flick that armored itself in bits ripped out of superhero movies. Maybe if Iron Man 2 hadn't felt choppy with Avengers set-up, maybe if we had seen Aldritch Killian before this movie it would have felt bigger. I dunno, maybe on reflection I'll warm up to it a bit more, right now my disappointment re: the Mandarin kind of overshadows the movie itself.

[Flagg]

That's why you need to not go in with expectations. I'd have liked to see a "real" Mandarin just to have the first movie where Tony isn't fighting another weapons corporation. But the fact that the Mandarin was a paper tiger in no way detracts from the plot for me.

[Beowulf]

At the end of the day it's the same as our current drones. Why risk a pilot when you can use a drone?

Although true, in SF, we have starfighters, even though drones are probably more effective, because we can care about the pilots, while a drone is just drone #685489. A drone Iron Man isn't something worth caring about, just like we don't care about any of the suits from Mk7 to Mk42 in IM3, when they get destroyed at the end.

[Kuja]

That's why you need to not go in with expectations. I'd have liked to see a "real" Mandarin just to have the first movie where Tony isn't fighting another weapons corporation. But the fact that the Mandarin was a paper tiger in no way detracts from the plot for me.

Yeah, I get you. My girlfriend didn't have my baggage and she loved the whole Mandarin twist. I think I might have liked it more if it hadn't felt like someone cribbed the idea from Batman Begins...because holy fuck it really did feel like that to me. Ultimately I think if Killian had just felt like a stronger villain it wouldn't have resonated so much, after all I liked Liam Neeson as the 'real' Ghul in BB, but my god Guy Pearce just bored me.

I agree on the idea that it would have been nice to see something other than Tony Stark vs nefarious corporatism as well.

[InsaneTD]

At the end of the day it's the same as our current drones. Why risk a pilot when you can use a drone?

Although true, in SF, we have starfighters, even though drones are probably more effective, because we can care about the pilots, while a drone is just drone #685489. A drone Iron Man isn't something worth caring about, just like we don't care about any of the suits from Mk7 to Mk42 in IM3, when they get destroyed at the end.

Could be because of the whole argument were if you remove humans from the battle field no one will try to avoid war, blah, blah, blah. You know, political commentary. And humans will never completely leave the battlefield, too many people are adrenaline junkies who enjoy the thrill, psychopaths who like to kill, etc.

[Kojiro]

If the trouble ever comes to you, a suit is useful. It's no good having drones if someone can just snipe you in the head. It's a personal defence thing.

Which is a really good argument for not just blowing half a dozen of them up. But it's not an either/or- he can own a suit for personal use/defense and possibly even use it as a last resort. By and large though drones.

Although true, in SF, we have starfighters, even though drones are probably more effective, because we can care about the pilots, while a drone is just drone #685489. A drone Iron Man isn't something worth caring about, just like we don't care about any of the suits from Mk7 to Mk42 in IM3, when they get destroyed at the end.

See in say, BSG or B5 or any series with fighters we don't tend to see drones. Fighters are the mainstay, the way it's done, and I'm totally ok with that. Fighters don't bug me in the least. The dissonance to me comes in when technology advances, like we see in IM3 and it's not properly utilised. Yes it's terrible for a sense of drama or character danger but that's why you don't introduce it. Once you introduce it though you need to be internally consistent and use it or you invent some (hopefully plausible) reason it can't be used. Otherwise you end up with random phenomena #562 why transporters won't work today or everyone just 'forgets' such tech ever existed.

I don't agree with you, but at least you're not herp derping about stupid bullshit only the fattest of nerds care about.

STOP TALKING ABOUT STUFF I DON'T LIKE NERDS! NEEERRDS!

[EnterpriseSovereign]

If the trouble ever comes to you, a suit is useful. It's no good having drones if someone can just snipe you in the head. It's a personal defence thing.

Which is a really good argument for not just blowing half a dozen of them up. But it's not an either/or- he can own a suit for personal use/defense and possibly even use it as a last resort. By and large though drones.

Which is exactly what IM2 turned into at the Stark Expo with War Machine and the Vanko machines. Of course, since drones designed from the ground up don't have to fit around a human body you can have an arc-powered machine that can be any shape you want (as opposed to the Hammer suits which Vanko merely modified). Which is pretty cool when you think about it