Movie Avengers againsts a Kaiju Attack

[Ted C]

In both Thor and The Avengers, Thor does use the hammer as a "homing missile" of sorts. He is able to throw it and have it hit multiple targets that are not all in a straight line.

Perhaps. I can't remember. I'd guess he did it against the frost giants in his movie, when did he do that in the Avengers?

When Cap is being overwhelmed, near the end. He throws it and helps Cap back to his feet; meanwhile you can still hear the hammer striking alien mooks.

It seems to be more like a TOW missile than a seeker, though; the weapon responds to Thor's thoughts and moves according to his will, such as when he summoned it to the helicarrier's hangar from wherever he had left it. If he drops it due to being hit or something (as in his fight with Iron Man), it doesn't return to his hand until he calls it.

I already said he can recall it. That, by itself, doesn't mean that the hammer itself 'responds' in any way beyond simple telekinesis.

Thor shows no signs of telekinesis. The hammer has some kind of motive power built into it. It's not "self-guided" though: an "authorized user" has to direct it.

It also seems to be able to respond to certain stimuli or conditions on its own, such as spontaneously returning to Thor when he proved himself worthy.

Yes. I'll concede that Mjolnir is not completely inanimate. I was disputing Borgholio's idea that Mjolnir will actively press on and pin someone down if Thor just plops it on top of you. I just don't have reason to think that Mjolnir's abilities extend to that.

That's pretty much what happened to Loki at the end of Thor.

[Enigma]

Mjolnir can either actively press down or not depending on Thor's wish, I guess. Or else when Mjolnir landed on the floor when Thor tossed it at the Hulk, the helicarrier would either be rapidly falling out of the sky or have a hole torn through it.

[Kojiro]

Thor shows no signs of telekinesis. The hammer has some kind of motive power built into it. It's not "self-guided" though: an "authorized user" has to direct it.

Incidentally the new Thor 2 trailers have Thor doing some tricks with Mjolnir. In the first trailer Mjolnir is in flight when Thor isn't even present but he teleports (effect looks like the Bifrost) and catches the hammer before the effect even fades. In the second trailer we see him summoning the hammer back to him through the streets where the hammer seems to go out of it's way (as compared to when summoned on the helicarrier) to avoid building and return to him. Given that it was clearly out of Thor's line of sight there is no clear way for him to be directing it. In other words Mjolnir must have some sort of rudimentary intelligence, at least sufficient to differentiate between 'come directly to me' and 'come to me, but avoid going through things'. And of course the awareness and ability to plot a path that doesn't hit anything. The former example seems (for now anyway) to imply it even predicts Thor's location.

So it's clear that Mjolnir can in some way sense its evironment, both to seek out targets or avoid porperty damage and this same ability likely plays a role in detecting who is trying to lift it and how it stays in place.

Mjolnir can either actively press down or not depending on Thor's wish, I guess. Or else when Mjolnir landed on the floor when Thor tossed it at the Hulk, the helicarrier would either be rapidly falling out of the sky or have a hole torn through it.

I think that effect only occured because Hulk actually caught it by the handle. Had it hit him in the chest- like it does with say Iron Man- it would have carried Hulk until Thor recalled it. As it was Hulk still gets knocked off his feet and carried several meters just holding onto it. Once it lands though Mjolnir simply doesn't allow itself to be moved by anyone unworthy. One thing we've never seen though is Mjolnir hover or move slowly. It seems it has a minimum speed almost.

[Lord Revan]

we got remember that Mjolnir like most asgard tech seems to be magical or at very least so advanced that it would seem magic to us, even when SHIELD build a weapon based on the destroyer it seems there's some "black box" components in there as they didn't know what it did, before it was fire that is.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

-various-

Then, between you and Kojiro, I think I was in error.

[Ted C]

we got remember that Mjolnir like most asgard tech seems to be magical or at very least so advanced that it would seem magic to us, even when SHIELD build a weapon based on the destroyer it seems there's some "black box" components in there as they didn't know what it did, before it was fire that is.

I tend to think of Mjolnir has having some kind of advance self-propulsion system and a rudimentary AI program that allows it to respond to thought commands from authorized users (like Thor and Odin), act on previous instructions (like returning to Thor when he demonstrates worthiness), some level of auto-targeting, and some level of discretion when implementing the "must be worthy to lift" protocol (or at least an elaborate decision tree).

[Enigma]

I don't think Mjolnir goes that far. Odin AFAIK decides who is worthy. I can remember two instances of Odin deciding one's worthiness. One was in the Thor movie and the other was in JLA vs. the Avengers comic series.

[Ted C]

I don't think Mjolnir goes that far. Odin AFAIK decides who is worthy. I can remember two instances of Odin deciding one's worthiness. One was in the Thor movie and the other was in JLA vs. the Avengers comic series.

Odin set the criteria for worthiness and stored them in Mjolnir's "computer", but he doesn't have to remotely evaluate everyone who touches the hammer himself. If you ask me, that is.

[Simon_Jester]

Thor goes from being unworthy of the hammer to worthy during the first movie when he confronts the Destroyer in his mortal form, while Odin is unconscious.

[Enigma]

Thor goes from being unworthy of the hammer to worthy during the first movie when he confronts the Destroyer in his mortal form, while Odin is unconscious.

Yet, before Mjolnir went to Thor, wasn't there a scene with Odin shedding a tear and saying Thor's name while still unconscious? Something like that?

[Kojiro]

Yet, before Mjolnir went to Thor, wasn't there a scene with Odin shedding a tear and saying Thor's name while still unconscious? Something like that?

He sheds a tear after Thor is struck by the Destroyer and dying, indicating he's aware of what's transpiring (perhaps he can still jack into the Destroyer while in the Odinsleep?)

That actually always made me wonder. Thor tells Sif he has a plan and when she has accepted this and left, he simply drops her shield and begins his walk towards the Destroyer. I took from this he had resigned himself at that point to sacrificing himself, which in theory should have been when Mjolnir began to power up. What if Loki had been more merciful and not struck him? The tear from Odin almost seemed like Odin had thought better of his punishment and revoked it, rather than Thor actually meeting the requirement. Aplogies for the tangent.

What is relevant from that scene though is that Mjolnir visibly breaks the sound barrier returning to Thor so we have a minimum speed it can achieve from its own power. I've not seen Pacific Rim so I'm not sure how durable the kaiju are or if that could penetrate them.

For what it's worth when Stark summons his armour in Iron Man 3 it takes the pieces of his suit 57 seconds (once freed) to get from Tennesse to Miami (832 miles apparently). I'm not math expert but if Stark can build self powered armour components that move that fast (and that is fast) the kaiju better be insanely tough to go up against a dedicated missile/penetrator rod.

Or to put it another way if Stark is in any way given the time and resources the Jager project was the kaiju are fragged.

[Ted C]

Just to clear up the whole chain of events...

[Ted C]

What if Loki had been more merciful and not struck him?

What if Loki had been "less" merciful and had the Destroyer incinerate Thor where he stood?

[Kojiro]

Well that's exactly my point- the trigger for Thor getting Mjolnir (and his powers) back seems to come after Loki's attack while the conditions for Mjolnir's return seems fulfiled before it.. Loki's attack was 'just right'- not too lethal but lethal enough to demonstrate Thor's sacrifice. My point was that the hammer should have been in flight the moment Thor began his walk toward the Destroyer- it's at that point he's decided to offer Loki his life for the others. Of course that's based on the idea that his intended sacrifice was the trigger. Hence why it feels almost like Odin returned Mjolnir to save Thor rather than him meeting any particular test.

Having now seen Pacific Rim I seriously doubt the movie Avengers- as they are assembled in the movie- could stop a kaiju. Thor could likely annoy the crap out of it with lightning and Stark could harrass it. Hulk could bruise the ever loving shit out of a small part of it. Unless it is unlucky enough to eat the Hulk- then it might have a bad day. If there's one sure way to piss the Hulk off that must surely be it.

[Simon_Jester]

Although I still think the people who envision Stark building giant-sized versions of his armor as the surrogate giant-monster-fighting robots have a good idea.

Certainly, Iron Man 3 makes it clear that Stark is willing to consider some pretty exotic variations on the theme of "armor," up to and including what is essentially light mecha.

[Kojiro]

Well sure, but the OP is about the movie Avengers, presumably with no set up time.

Stark's IM 3 tech is insanely good, excepting the seemingly paper thin aspect of the armour. But Tony's already got a neural interface sorted out- and one that doesn't need you to be on the jager which is staggeringly useful. Plus what's the neural burden Jarvis can assume? Could Jarvis pilot a Stark jager?

It's also worth noting that repulsors are (at least traditionally) kinetic weapons. If bludgeouning kaiju is your goal I can't think of a better weapon.

[Lord Revan]

What if Loki had been more merciful and not struck him?

What if Loki had been "less" merciful and had the Destroyer incinerate Thor where he stood?

that doesn't seem like Loki's style even in Thor he likes to show off alot (though it gets worse in Avengers) so "just shoot him" would feel too plain and not worthy enough, where as the backhand attack does would have the right dramatic impact.