Doctor Who season 9 E 12 - Hell Bent

[jwl]

I really like to imagine that just after the end of the episode the Time Lords engaged the recall circuit and took Clara and Me prisoner.

Incidentally, I really liked Donald Sumpter's brief performance, enough that he's going to be my avatar for a bit.

If they could do that, it makes one wonder why they didn't do it the instant they left Gallifrey.

Ostensibly it required authorization by the High Council to use the recall circuit. Which as the Doctor had banished them (perhaps this is why!) will presumably require them to elect a new High Council and sort out who has the authority.

But after that, until proven otherwise, I'm assuming Me and Clara will just be captured.

The doctor banished them because they created half of the horrors of the time war and tried to destroy the universe in the end of time. Mucking up their ability to use the recall circuit might work as a useful side effect, but that wasn't the main motivation.

[Parallax]

Their entire planet is brought to its knees by one man? And they screw up one third of the desperate acts they attempt to desperately fix things?
Yeah, not so great.

[Enigma]

Another question, how the hell did they still have TARDISes if they were all destroyed in the Time War? They couldn't have had old ones lying around.

[SpottedKitty]

Another question, how the hell did they still have TARDISes if they were all destroyed in the Time War? They couldn't have had old ones lying around.

I'll have to watch out for that bit in the repeat. Maybe the Doctor pinched it from a repair shop, and didn't notice or threw away the sign on the door that read "Danger - Do Not Use - Neurotic"...

[Parallax]

Another question, how the hell did they still have TARDISes if they were all destroyed in the Time War? They couldn't have had old ones lying around.

I'd have to recheck the dialogue but didn't the Doctor say that he wanted to get into that tunnel because underneath was a workshop, where there'd be a TARDIS he could steal? So, either the Time Lords would be building new ones (which would be the common sense thing to do) or one got damaged and was in for repairs.

And were all the TARDIS' destroyed in the Time War? I don't remember that being said.

[NecronLord]

The doctor banished them because they created half of the horrors of the time war and tried to destroy the universe in the end of time. Mucking up their ability to use the recall circuit might work as a useful side effect, but that wasn't the main motivation.

His motives are open to question I'd say, given that he shot a man for standing up for his values and public safety in order to save Clara. I think Clara's his main motivation here. If banishing High Councillors (something he did before he started shooting unarmed men in the Invasion of Time) benefited his Clara plan, no doubt he'd do it for that reason alone.

Another question, how the hell did they still have TARDISes if they were all destroyed in the Time War? They couldn't have had old ones lying around.

If they were all destroyed, which is speculative, presumably they grew new ones along with clearing the hundreds of shattered dalek saucers from the area around the Citadel and repairing the dome and building new suburbs around the Capitol.




I gathered that some time had passed for them.

[The Romulan Republic]

Another question, how the hell did they still have TARDISes if they were all destroyed in the Time War? They couldn't have had old ones lying around.

I'd have to recheck the dialogue but didn't the Doctor say that he wanted to get into that tunnel because underneath was a workshop, where there'd be a TARDIS he could steal? So, either the Time Lords would be building new ones (which would be the common sense thing to do) or one got damaged and was in for repairs.

And were all the TARDIS' destroyed in the Time War? I don't remember that being said.

Its easy to infer their weren't a lot of TARDISs left, since none were seen being deployed in Day of the Doctor. Their might have been a few in remote regions of the universe or being repaired, but I'd guess most of the Time Lord fleet was gone at that point.

[Parallax]

Or the Daleks, as part of their assault, caused disruption in the Vortex that stopped TARDIS' taking off from the planet ... but not more, such as the Doctor's, arriving from off-planet.

[NecronLord]

Given that the Vortex is often depicted as basically physical, perhaps they could simply have blockaded it?

[jwl]

I was under the impression that tardises couldn't go in or out when the sky trenches were up (minus the doctor who somehow found some way through them), and they aren't going to raise their sky trenches in the middle of a dalek assault.

[The Romulan Republic]

You know, it seems to me that most of this episode's problems could have been fixed by simply ending it when the Doctor escapes Gallifrey, while having Clara stay behind, surrendering herself to the Time Lords after her conversation with the Doctor to allow him to escape. The scenes of talking to Clara in the diner could simply be something in the Doctor's head, like his conversations with her in the previous episode. Doc goes on his way, Clara goes to meet her death, self-indulgent, drawn-out contradictory ending with Clara averted.

It would cut Me from the episode, which might make some of the previous stuff not make sense, but that's a small loss to me.

[Bernkastel]

I've only just watched this a couple of days ago. I'd joked to myself when I'd watched Heaven Sent that, since there was a pattern of the second part of these two parters being good, that the second half would be terrible this time. While there's been worse and I wouldn't use terrible yet for this, I'd say Hell Bent was quite a disappointment. Worse, as has been been pointed out, it would have been so easy to have fixed it.

[Tiriol]

I must say that I am utterly disappointed. So much possibilities, all wasted.

Clara/Me wank has reached its climax and is now purely disgusting. The idea of Ashildr somehow being truly and effectively Christian God-level of immortal is insane, since the Mire didn't seem to be like that; and now we have Zombie Clara as well. "Taking the long way" isn't about Clara accepting her death and facing the Raven, it's about "do not want to do it, I'll instead wait a few billion years". The two of them also seem to have a bad habit of bossing people around and getting themselves into stupid situations (besides, it was implied that the Time Lords pressured Ashildr into tricking the Doctor into teleportation device, so they can reach other parts in space-time continuum apart from the ass-end of the universe). River Song was, from time to time, bad enough, but these two are fan-fic wank material accepted as canon.

Clara's death in Face the Raven was handled unusually well: it was a logical consequence of her increasingly risk-seeking behavior, which has also had the unpleasant side taste of being callous towards all the people who are NOT her/Doctor's Companions (something Queen Victoria pointed out was Rose's major failure as well during Tenth Doctor's tenure). She faced her own actions and paid for them. But now this...

Time Lords returning should have been a great moment. But no, it is instead shrugged off so that Moffat can keep on gushing over the Doctor and over Moffat's characters while Doctor breaks just about every rule he has. Doctor had trouble picking up a gun to shoot Rassilon or the Master in End of Time and back then it literally could have meant the end of universe and all of time and mankind, now it's OK to shoot someone who actually helped the Doctor and tried to reason with him? Rassilon, the legendary, nearly divine founder of Time Lord civilization, who got the entire High Council and Parliament to cheer for his insane plan in End of Time is now just a sad little man (I'm not blaming the actor, who is wonderful, I'm blaming the writing!) who has his own troops turn against him. The Doctor might be a war hero, but Rassilon is a legend and if the High Command didn't know what the High Council was up to during the end of the Time War, the common people and common soldiers shouldn't either.

I also have this disgusting feeling that Moffat just contradicted some of his own rules about time travel (I'm not sure, because it was not stated that Clara's death was a fixed point, only that it was a historical fact).

All in all: this was a bad way to end the season. It had the same rushed feeling as Wedding of River Song despite having less fantastic elements and setting as a background. It lacked any emotional depth for those who don't like Clara all that much (quite frankly Rose and Donna's passing of the Companion torch were the most touching ones so far) and managed to aggravate me after absolutely glorious Heavent Sent. I do say, though, that the Cloister with its wraiths was suitably creepy.

I hope Moffat will finally leave Doctor Who for someone else and if he doesn't, at least acknowledge that what the Doctor did will repercussions (and not funny ones, either) - and that we don't have to endure flying American diner with Wank Companions in it.

[Enigma]

When the Doctor was talking to Ashildr at the end of the universe, were they in the remains of the Cloister? Because it looked like it and if so, wouldn't trying to figure out who is the Hybrid since both of them are technically standing in the ruins of Gallifrey? Though it kinda falls flat if the Doctor was trying to escape from Gallifrey.

[Themightytom]

Yeah this was kind of garbage, more so because they took what should have been a pivotal moment in Doctor Who mythology, and squandered it just to circle back to Clara. The doctor returns to Galifrey, they had the anniversary special dealing with the "Secret" regeneration, which actually made Tenant the 11th and and Smith the 12th but was so COMPLETELY essential because he was the War Doctor, and the Doctor was ashamed of him, and the war was so bad he had to DESTROY GALIFREY!

except he didn't, and it wasn't really a big deal to anyone actually, Galifrey came back, moved to the end of time, and nobody really cares, in fact, people ON Galifrey hardly cared. All the angst we have seen over since Dr. Who returned, has pretty much stripped away at this point, boiled down to stupid catch phrases like "Der, I go the long way around" and now Clara is going the long way around, because the Doctor went "Too Far" and "endangered the universe" which is not in danger, because Clara's doing pretty much what the Doctor wanted to do without him anyway. The whole contrived "Hybrid" thing is like a watered down "Doctor Donna" deal.

I'm not gonna spoil the Christmas special, but thank god they wrapped THAT loose end up to so now there's nothing really left to bother watching for except The Next Big Rehash. Rassilon and the council are possibly running around but who cares, they don't even have the good actor.

[Darth Yan]

So could everyone sum up the major bad parts, and how to possibly fix it? Maybe even create an alternate episode

[Iroscato]

So could everyone sum up the major bad parts, and how to possibly fix it? Maybe even create an alternate episode

Resolution to 10 - year Time Lord arc almost entirely disregarded in favour of more Clara-wank.

Doctor outright murders a fellow Time Lord (who does regenerate, but the man he was is gone forever, for all intents and purposes he is dead) who had supported him previously, all in order to get his own way.

Those are the two major ones that stuck in my craw. As to fixing it...just delete most of the Clara-wank down to a passing couple of references and actually focus on what the vast majority of the fandom had been dying to see - a proper resolution to the story element that has defined much of the show since its return in 2005.


Moffat is a frustrating sonovabitch. One episode will remind you of why you love the show to begin with, another will make you question why you even bother watching. His hit rate has been better in the last two series especially, but there have still been some stinkers covered in his fingerprints. Apparently, series 10 will be his last as showrunner - I'm hoping we get at least 2 more series out of Capaldi though, the man is endlessly watchable.

[Hillary]

So could everyone sum up the major bad parts, and how to possibly fix it? Maybe even create an alternate episode

Resolution to 10 - year Time Lord arc almost entirely disregarded in favour of more Clara-wank.

Doctor outright murders a fellow Time Lord (who does regenerate, but the man he was is gone forever, for all intents and purposes he is dead) who had supported him previously, all in order to get his own way.

Those are the two major ones that stuck in my craw. As to fixing it...just delete most of the Clara-wank down to a passing couple of references and actually focus on what the vast majority of the fandom had been dying to see - a proper resolution to the story element that has defined much of the show since its return in 2005.


Moffat is a frustrating sonovabitch. One episode will remind you of why you love the show to begin with, another will make you question why you even bother watching. His hit rate has been better in the last two series especially, but there have still been some stinkers covered in his fingerprints. Apparently, series 10 will be his last as showrunner - I'm hoping we get at least 2 more series out of Capaldi though, the man is endlessly watchable.

Yeah - broadly agree with that. Having had a chance to think about it now, my major issue with Hell Bent was that there seemed no point to it. It's difficult to understand what Moffat's aims were for the episode. I expected it to be the Doctor dealing with those in the High Council who had been responsible for the events of End of Time and Heaven Sent and restoring the TLs to their former respected status. Within that, there was the issue with Ashilda to deal with - again, this is something that the TLs would have been capable of dealing with one way or another.

I expected a bit of Clara wank and that was fine to a point. In fact, up until the point he got Clara back, I actually enjoyed the episode. Unfortunately, it all turned to shit the moment he fired the gun. A much better option would have been for Clara to remind him that he is the Doctor - he saves people; not shoots them - and for him to let her go, as it is the right thing to do. She could have died her brave death and he could then move on to the High Council and deal with them and Ashilda.

As it turned out, we now have the Doctor being a fugitive again, plus Ashilda and Clara with their own TARDIS flying around. Unless they have plans to revisit this plotline (and with Jenna Coleman history, that seems not exactly likely), I can't see what the point was here.

[Tribble]

So could everyone sum up the major bad parts, and how to possibly fix it? Maybe even create an alternate episode

Bad Parts:

The resolution sucks, and basically boils down to this:

Doctor: Get off my planet!
Rassilion: No.
Soldiers/General: Get off his planet.
Rassilion: Ok, I guess.
Doctor: Oh, and the Council will go with you.

And that's pretty much it. Honesty, it takes ~10 minutes if you're generous. The rest of the episode is spent wanking furiously over Clara and Ashildr. What a pathetic ending a 10 year plot arc.

As others have noted, the easiest way to fix it would be to remove Clara and Ashildr, and focus on Gallifrey and the Time Lords. Maybe answer a few questions, like how did they break out, what have they been up to, why the rest of the universe isn't aware of them etc. Maybe have a more satisfying resolution to the hybrid rather than leaving it up in the air. The thing that frustrates people is that this should have been a very easy episode to write for: an episode about the return of the Time Lords... should be about the return of the Time Lords.


As for an alternate episode, here's an idea off the top of my head:

First off, Clara stays dead, maybe some references about her but we don't see / hear from her. Ditto for Ashildr.

To do it justice I'd make it a two-parter rather than a single episode. Or at the very least make it an extended episode like Day of the Doctor.

First part- Doctor confronts Rassilion and the Time Lord council. There's more than enough material and plot threads to make that last an episode. Anyways, the Doctor wins the day as usual, and prepares to go fetch his TARDIS. However, before he can do that something big happens - and I'm not talking about the Daleks or the Hybrid. After all the time fighting in the Time War, after all the time spent believing Gallifrey was destroyed then searching for it, after nearly giving up hope, the Doctor is finally reunited with his family. Seriously, out of all the moments in the show where the Doctor could meet his family again, this would be it. And after everything that's happened he so deserves it. The end of the episode finishes with the Doctor staying on Gallifrey - he's finally decided to come home.


Second part - Some time has passed. We see that the Doctor has settled down and is having an ordinary life (by Time Lord standards at any rate). Spending time with his family, giving advice to officals about various issues, perhaps even teaching etc. And it's clear he's not bored - on the contrary, after everything he's been through he's quite happy to spend an incarnation or two relaxing and enjoying the simple things in life. Plus he's decided that it's in Gallifrey's best interests that he stays and keeps an eye on things. However, he gradually becomes aware that the rest of the universe has not being doing well in his absence. It needs the Doctor. In the end he decides to go travelling again, and having wizened up a bit the Time Lords agree to it since it's in their best interests that the universe stays in one piece. He says goodbye to his family, reunites with his TARDIS, and flies off. Only this time, he's not a Renegade, or the Last of the Time Lords, but just a mad man in a box. And now he has a home to return to. No animosity was needed for him to leave this time!

It's definitely clichéd, but IMO it'd work better than what we saw. Plus you could have things in later episodes like the Doctor being "rusty" after not adventuring for so long, his name becoming just a myth etc.