Matrix Reloaded Discussion [Spoilers, Matrix Reloaded]

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-05-16 09:04am

Ack, no edit button. Anyway, there's also the matter of the spoon in Reloaded. Either that means there is a spoon as he's in the real world (plus a gift from an old friend), or that if the "Matrix in a Matrix" idea comes to pass, then that spoon is a reminder of such. ("A spoon? But there is no spoon. So this must not be a spoon. Therefore...") That scene could go either way.

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-05-16 09:25am

Durran Korr wrote:
Very intriguing. Although, it is possible that Neo did not infact have anything to do with stopping the machines. Remember the other ship wasn't too far behind, they could have just EMP'ed the area, making it (coincidently) look like Neo affected the sentinels, when in fact he didn't.
Then why does Neo collapse after doing so?

Also in the first movie it was suggested that a ship has to shut everything down before doing a EMP burst because the ship takes damage from the burst just like the machines do.

So there is no way the ship at the end could have fired the EMP burst and flew in at the same time. It would have been shorted out and crashed.

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2003-05-16 09:42am

Durran Korr wrote:What exactly is the One, anyway?

The One (as told by the Architect) is the Systemic Anomaly. Because the Oracle's Matrix is mathematically imperfect, "impurities" accumulate over time within it. In time, these impurities accrete into the One, who "resets" the Matrix when he unites with the Source and allows the destruction of Zion. Then the impurities start building up again....

However, Neo has broken this cycle by not uniting with the Source.

Which causes me to desire the next movie so badly.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-05-16 10:00am

Xisiqomelir wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:What exactly is the One, anyway?
The One (as told by the Architect) is the Systemic Anomaly. Because the Oracle's Matrix is mathematically imperfect, "impurities" accumulate over time within it. In time, these impurities accrete into the One, who "resets" the Matrix when he unites with the Source and allows the destruction of Zion. Then the impurities start building up again....

However, Neo has broken this cycle by not uniting with the Source.

Which causes me to desire the next movie so badly.

So, since he didn't unite and cleanse the impurities, he may have suffered a backlash, thus the coma.

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2003-05-16 10:52pm

VERY GOOD MOVIE!!!

But there were a few things I didn't like:

The fight with Neo and 100 agents, you could just tell that was CGI, but still it was cool.

TOO MUCH PSYCOBABBLE!!! They acted as if they knew what they were talking about, but they don't really let the audience in.(THe ARchitect scene, when Agent Smith talks, and everyone acting like they knew what was going on)

The rave scene, what the heck was that? it served no purpose.

What I did like:THe sword fight between Neo and the french dude's bodyguards.

Seeing Zion(very cool)

Highway chase was very intense

Why do I want to think that the 'real world' is actually just another layer of the Matrix?

The Architect scene was very confusing, what did that actually mean?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-16 10:56pm

Why do I want to think that the 'real world' is actually just another layer of the Matrix?

I doubt it is. I think it's just more heavily controlled by the machines than the humans had initially believed. The plot twist in this movie was more than enough for the series; making the Real World into just another part of the Matrix would be overkill.

There's also the fact that the machines shouldn't need to send a conventional military force to destroy Zion; if it is part of the Matrix, unplugging the residents and deleting Zion from the Matrix would be enough.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-05-16 11:00pm

The Arcitect scsen just solidfies my theory of what the Oracle was talking about.

The Matrix isn't one all powerful program but trillions upon trillion of programs of varying degrees of power(seriously she explains it pretty nicely with no technobabble)

So basically the whole point of Neo is to gather up all the errant little errors, and then perform a core dump...and do it all over again.

Now what I want to know is...why.

Aeolus · Post by **Aeolus** » 2003-05-17 12:02am

Joe Momma wrote:
Ender wrote:I think the rave was good actually. It served a purpose. It showed that they were still humans. If they were a totally militaristic society, bent only on war with the machines, then they would be almost exactly like machines themselves. That scene hammered home the point that they are still human, they still dance, celebrate, and love, they are still alive and not dead inside.

I don't object to the "eat, drink, and be merry" idea (which isn't quite what you're getting at, but along the same lines), but it seemed like a lot of people were pissing away vital moments when they should have been preparing for the wolves at the door, as it were.

quote]

But why? They can't actually win. Even before the fleet was defeated it was basically hopeless. They party was to reaffirm thier humanity and get pumped up...a giant pep rally basically

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-05-17 11:33pm

One of the best moments in the movie was Mopheus slashing the twins' truck with the katana and then blowing it up.

My friends and I were all like "YES!" when he did that.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2003-05-18 12:27am

I found the movie to be slightly disappointing to what I was expecting. The beginning scenes were pretty boring. The Smith army vs Neo, the mansion, and the freeway fight scenes made up for that though.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-18 12:32am

The Neo vs. Seraph fights was pretty cool too in my opinion.

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2003-05-18 12:44am

When Neo kissed that chick to get to the keymaker, i was half expecting the chick to turn into an agent in mid-kiss.

<kiss>

Ohhh... That was the best kiss i've ever had...

<morph>

Mr. Anderson...

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-05-18 12:47am

SolidSnake wrote:When Neo kissed that chick to get to the keymaker, i was half expecting the chick to turn into an agent in mid-kiss.

<kiss>

Ohhh... That was the best kiss i've ever had...

<morph>

Mr. Anderson...

That would've been TRULY disturbing...and rather amusing.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-18 01:13am

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/matrix50.html

I found this. Kind of funny.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-18 01:31am

Why didn't they use the EMP against the incoming bomb? It could have brought them a little time at least, even if another one was sent right after it.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-18 01:40am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Why didn't they use the EMP against the incoming bomb? It could have brought them a little time at least, even if another one was sent right after it.

I don't think they were near enough to the cockpit. Isn't that where the trigger is?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-05-18 01:42am

That and the EMP would killed those plugged within the Matrix already on that ship.

So for them it was seriously lose-lose

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-18 01:45am

Ghost Rider wrote:That and the EMP would killed those plugged within the Matrix already on that ship.

So for them it was seriously lose-lose

Actually the only ship that had people alive to use an EMP was the Neb. And everyone was already out. Remember, everyone on Soren's ship was either dead, or in the Matrix. Nobody would have been able to fire it.

Sriad · Post by **Sriad** » 2003-05-18 03:41am

Ender wrote:...Seriously, it has the symbolism of star wars, the most fitting soundtrack since LOTR, the mindjob plot worthy of the greatest authors ever, 1^1000 times the action of the first one...

Nitpick, 1^1000=1

NecronLord wrote:I haven't seen it. But from the trailer of the agents shooting at Neo, why don't they just upload a handheld laser? (they were in the animatrix weren't they?) and burn him to death.

And why aren't they reacting in the millisecond range?

Well for one thing, a laser doesn't destroy something instantly; if a megawatt per second laser shoots you for one thousandth of a second that's just a thousand watts, and a handheld laser wouldn't be in the megawatt range, I'm thinking.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-05-18 12:07pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Why didn't they use the EMP against the incoming bomb? It could have brought them a little time at least, even if another one was sent right after it.

1) They have to charge the EMP.

2) It seems to be that it's just a big grenade, no guidance systems to EMP, as soon as it hits something, boom, probly not a trigger that the EMP will knock out.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-05-18 01:05pm

The systemic anomoly was not the One, but the human rebellion. 99% of the people plugged in accepted the Matrix, but the 1% that didnt were the ones who woke up and began the human resistance. This anomoly was not one that could be solved through any sort of computer equation because of the human factor--random emotion cannot be computed by the machines.

So, to deal with this, the machines created the One--his purpose is to reboot the system. When your harddrive has an error on it that cant be removed, the only thing to do is to reboot the entire system and re-install the operating system.
The machines set-up zion and give them the 'prophecy' to keep them busy. Rebellion is inevitable--this is something the machines dont have any way to stop. So what do they do? Control the rebellion. The human resistance is being shaped exactly the way the machines want it to be, keeping them busy with Zion and prophecies and messiahs until the One can be created and the system reloaded to start fresh once again. The humans think they are free but they're not--it's all just another level of control. The prophecy was a lie. (Brilliant twist IMO!)
When the humans are destroyed, the One must choose 23 humans to repopulate Zion with, giving them the prophecy, before returning to the Source, so that he may be reborn again later on. This has happened five times already.

just to clear it all up. I'm pretty sure that is how the story goes, feel free to correct me.

The thing that makes Neo unique is that he has been able to control outside of the Matrix. I dont buy this Matrix-with-a-Matrix stuff. The Real World is the Real World.
The reason Neo is able to "feel" the Sentinels at the end and control them is because of Smith. Smith tells Neo that when Neo killed him, part of Neo was copied onto Smith, and that the two are now somehow linked. Smith gained some of Neo's human abilities--he began to rebel against his programming (and this may also explain his new ability to copy himself, both into machines as well as a human mind, as he does with that goatee guy). Likewise, Neo gained some of Smith's abilities--he is now linked to the machines. That is why he is able to stop them at the end of the film.

The machines did not count on this. Now Neo can control the machines in the Matrix as well as in the Real World, and he has truely become "god". This is how Neo will finally be able to overcome the Reload cycle and finally bring down the machines.

my two cents...

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-05-18 02:08pm

zombie84 wrote:The machines set-up zion and give them the 'prophecy' to keep them busy. Rebellion is inevitable--this is something the machines dont have any way to stop. So what do they do? Control the rebellion. The human resistance is being shaped exactly the way the machines want it to be, keeping them busy with Zion and prophecies and messiahs until the One can be created and the system reloaded to start fresh once again. The humans think they are free but they're not--it's all just another level of control. The prophecy was a lie. (Brilliant twist IMO!)

The "prophecy" also serves to keep the humans united in one place, so that the AIs can strike and wipe them all out in one swift blow. Given how crowded Zion is, I'd think that without a prophecy to keep them together, they'd try to spread out and make their resistance more difficult to destroy

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-18 03:40pm

Of course not everyone believes in the prophecy. It's only good that people in the most powerful positions do. If Lock had a higher position, it may not have worked that way.

Hobot · Post by **Hobot** » 2003-05-18 03:55pm

That's a very nice summary, zombie

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-18 05:18pm

Something I noticed when I saw it again today; the Merovingian says "I have survived your predecessors." So the Merovingian has been a part of the prophecy each time, apparently.