Elheru Aran wrote:Ghetto Edit: While there are grenade launchers with cylindrical magazines, they are definitely different from what Boomer used, notably in the massive size of the magazines and the large bores, as 40mm is rather common. She sure didn't look like she was hefting a small drain pipe...
See what I mean?
After thinking a bit, and while I originally agree with you, I don't know;
Minus the folding stock? Looks pretty close to what I remember seeing last night.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
UCBooties wrote:And the Spoiler train rolls on... Zerick made his intentions clear in his little aside. He'll let Rosilyn lead the sheep, but he wants the fleet. If Boomers talking about both Adama's rather than only senior she's probably talking to Zerick because he's the one who sees Lee as next in line to lead the fleet. Also, I doubt very much we'll be seeing Adama shot again in the same way, since it will lack the brutal dramatic impact of the end of the first season and just seem rehashed. However, it's too bad, since if this is true then we probably won't be seeing anymore of Zerick (unless, delicious thought, he is a Cylon). I've realy liked him and hoped he'd be around for the run of the show, or at least a bit longer than this.
I doubt it was Zerick she was talking too. He's not that stupid. My money is on his right-hand man, giving Zerick deniability.
Hot Spoiler on Spoiler Action! That's a good point. I would very much like to see his slick oily self around for a while longer. But I don't know just how much deniability he's going to have if his number one boy pulls a stunt like that. Hopefully he'll be able to weasel his way out of a bullet to the head. Oh, and also, this is all speculation, does it realy count as spoilers?
Post 666: Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:51 am
Post 777: Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:49 pm
Post 999: Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:19 am
Nah, just re-watched the scene. The weapon is definitely a streetsweeper, just like the one you pictured. It's got the slotted barrel sleeve, and, most obviously, that big oval widget sticking off the front of the drum.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
Thirdfain wrote:Nah, just re-watched the scene. The weapon is definitely a streetsweeper, just like the one you pictured. It's got the slotted barrel sleeve, and, most obviously, that big oval widget sticking off the front of the drum.
The weapon might be a street sweeper in reality, but in universe its a special anti-armor weapon. Firing something similar to the anti-armor rounds the pistols can be specialy fitted with.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
That was a much bigger explosion than the HE rounds used by the Galactica Marines. They put one into the head of a Cylon who was right in front of apollo and he didn't even burned (as I recall). I would say that in universe, that is a GL, most likely from the Astral Queen. My guess is that normally it would have some sort of non-leathal ammo (tear gas, whatever). So perhaps Zarek manged to get his hands on some explosive rounds for it (Apollo said he had connections), or his prison keepers liked to be especially well armed (not beyond reason, though I don't know if i'd want to use a real grenade onboard a ship).
Given the weapons Starbuck had in her Hummer on Caprica, civilian ownership of weapons of military grade is legal. I suspect this grenade launcher was specificaly designed to fire a variety of rounds, one of which is an anti-armor type high explossive. It could be purely civilian, but I have a suspcion that its something that Galactica has access to as well.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Alyeska wrote:Given the weapons Starbuck had in her Hummer on Caprica, civilian ownership of weapons of military grade is legal.
How the hell did you leap to that conclusion? Starbuck is not a civilian.
アカラム
I melt two faces in the morning. I melt two faces at night. I melt two faces in the afternoon, it makes me feel alright. I melt two faces in time of peace, and two in time of war. I melt two faces before I melt two faces, and then I melt two more. - Ballad of a PK
Alyeska wrote:Given the weapons Starbuck had in her Hummer on Caprica, civilian ownership of weapons of military grade is legal.
How the hell did you leap to that conclusion? Starbuck is not a civilian.
Military issued weapons would have to be kept in proper storage and not just dumped into a vehicle. Furthermore as a pilot Starbuck would not be issued anything except maybe a pistol. She had three SMGs in her vehicle. Starbuck is a soldier, and also a civilian as evidence by the fact she had a home that was not located on a military base. Being a soldier does not prevent someone from having civilian things.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
They stated that some of the ships that jumped were mining ships which they could not afford to lose. What are they mining, how are they processed and produced into something useful?
Trytostaydead wrote:They stated that some of the ships that jumped were mining ships which they could not afford to lose. What are they mining, how are they processed and produced into something useful?
How much fuel in reserve do those tankers have?
The fleet periodicaly mines for resources on planets and asteroids.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Alyeska wrote:Military issued weapons would have to be kept in proper storage and not just dumped into a vehicle. Furthermore as a pilot Starbuck would not be issued anything except maybe a pistol. She had three SMGs in her vehicle. Starbuck is a soldier, and also a civilian as evidence by the fact she had a home that was not located on a military base. Being a soldier does not prevent someone from having civilian things.
Err, could they have stolen those weapons between leaving her house and going into the woods? I honestly can't recall if we saw them in her possession before she left the house.
Helo might have brought them, too.
"Man's unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me...God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist." -- Academician Prokhor Zakharov
"Hal grabs life by the balls and doesn't let you do that [to] hal."
"I hereby declare myself master of the known world."
Alyeska wrote:The fleet periodicaly mines for resources on planets and asteroids.
They've mined once. It was for water. What evidence do you have to support them doing it periodically? You state it like fact.
アカラム
I melt two faces in the morning. I melt two faces at night. I melt two faces in the afternoon, it makes me feel alright. I melt two faces in time of peace, and two in time of war. I melt two faces before I melt two faces, and then I melt two more. - Ballad of a PK
Alyeska wrote:The fleet periodicaly mines for resources on planets and asteroids.
They've mined once. It was for water. What evidence do you have to support them doing it periodically? You state it like fact.
Its the only explination that supports the needs of those ships. We know some of the ships can act as production for munitions and even eventualy replace lost Vipers. Those ships need resources. Mining ships go mine them.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Alyeska wrote:Military issued weapons would have to be kept in proper storage and not just dumped into a vehicle. Furthermore as a pilot Starbuck would not be issued anything except maybe a pistol. She had three SMGs in her vehicle. Starbuck is a soldier, and also a civilian as evidence by the fact she had a home that was not located on a military base. Being a soldier does not prevent someone from having civilian things.
Err, could they have stolen those weapons between leaving her house and going into the woods? I honestly can't recall if we saw them in her possession before she left the house.
Helo might have brought them, too.
Neither Helo or Starbuck had those weapons on them prior to reaching Starbuck's house. Starbuck is the one that hands out the weapons.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Alyeska wrote:Neither Helo or Starbuck had those weapons on them prior to reaching Starbuck's house. Starbuck is the one that hands out the weapons.
They must have travelled a significant distance to get from Caprica City into the wooded hinterlands. It's entirely possible they picked up the weapons along the way.
Helo also carried a sack that he might have stowed them in.
"Man's unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me...God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist." -- Academician Prokhor Zakharov
"Hal grabs life by the balls and doesn't let you do that [to] hal."
"I hereby declare myself master of the known world."
Alyeska wrote:Its the only explination that supports the needs of those ships.
Try this explanation on for size. Galactica didn't choose who survived the holocaust, what they got is what they got. I know it goes against your norm by actually having basis in plot fact, but hey.
We know some of the ships can act as production for munitions and even eventualy replace lost Vipers.
We know this do we? For fact? Quote this in the show please. Even if industrial production vessels exist, how are they producing all the parts needed for a Viper? When did they say that these imaginary ships were military production ships? As I say, evidence. NOT CONJECTURE, evidence.
Those ships need resources.
Prove that they're doing anything first.
Mining ships go mine them.
When have they done this? When have they had time considering how tight the sequence of events has been? Evidence please.
アカラム
I melt two faces in the morning. I melt two faces at night. I melt two faces in the afternoon, it makes me feel alright. I melt two faces in time of peace, and two in time of war. I melt two faces before I melt two faces, and then I melt two more. - Ballad of a PK
UCBooties wrote:Yeah, they also mined for Tillium(sp) fuel.
No, the Cylons did. The Colonials captured a Cylon Tillium refinery.
アカラム
I melt two faces in the morning. I melt two faces at night. I melt two faces in the afternoon, it makes me feel alright. I melt two faces in time of peace, and two in time of war. I melt two faces before I melt two faces, and then I melt two more. - Ballad of a PK
Akaramu Shinja wrote:Try this explanation on for size. Galactica didn't choose who survived the holocaust, what they got is what they got. I know it goes against your norm by actually having basis in plot fact, but hey.
Fuck off. I'm not attacking you.
We know this do we? For fact? Quote this in the show please. Even if industrial production vessels exist, how are they producing all the parts needed for a Viper? When did they say that these imaginary ships were military production ships? As I say, evidence. NOT CONJECTURE, evidence.
Well if you consider statements from the shows producers to be conjecture... Ron Moore has stated that the fleet has industrial vesels capable of parts replacement and potentialy even capable of producing replacement Vipers on a limited basis.
Prove that they're doing anything first.
That they are considered valuable fleet assets kinda shows they did something.
When have they done this? When have they had time considering how tight the sequence of events has been? Evidence please.
The Galactica blew up the refined Tillium ore. They had to go mine for the raw stuff on their own.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
UCBooties wrote:Yeah, they also mined for Tillium(sp) fuel.
No, the Cylons did. The Colonials captured a Cylon Tillium refinery.
Not much of a refinery considering they blew it sky high by blowing up the refined tillium ore. They had to mine for their own because they blew up the easily usable supply.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Alyeska wrote:Neither Helo or Starbuck had those weapons on them prior to reaching Starbuck's house. Starbuck is the one that hands out the weapons.
They must have travelled a significant distance to get from Caprica City into the wooded hinterlands. It's entirely possible they picked up the weapons along the way.
Helo also carried a sack that he might have stowed them in.
Possible. But when you consider the sheer number of weapon types seen, almost all of them "military grade", civilian ownership is the most logical explination. Militaries don't have dozens of base level weapon types, but civilians do. Either way, what Starbuck had is almost certainly civilian in nature.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Alyeska wrote:Militaries don't have dozens of base level weapon types, but civilians do.
Perhaps, but one important fact to remember is that the Colonies have only been united under one military for about 40 years (it's mentioned in an episode where the Articles are referenced). Before then there was the Caprican Army. There are also police forces. If the Colonial military's weapons didn't originate from Caprica, that leaves the possiblity of at least three different sets of weapons. And of course, the different branches of that military can have different preferences.
Alyeska wrote:Either way, what Starbuck had is almost certainly civilian in nature.
I still don't understand why this must be true.
"Man's unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me...God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist." -- Academician Prokhor Zakharov
"Hal grabs life by the balls and doesn't let you do that [to] hal."
"I hereby declare myself master of the known world."
Alyeska wrote:Militaries don't have dozens of base level weapon types, but civilians do.
Perhaps, but one important fact to remember is that the Colonies have only been united under one military for about 40 years (it's mentioned in an episode where the Articles are referenced). Before then there was the Caprican Army. There are also police forces. If the Colonial military's weapons didn't originate from Caprica, that leaves the possiblity of at least three different sets of weapons. And of course, the different branches of that military can have different preferences.
Alyeska wrote:Either way, what Starbuck had is almost certainly civilian in nature.
I still don't understand why this must be true.
The weapons that Starbuck and Helo had don't really match what we have seen from the Colonial Military. The Marines have nifty SMGs with scopes, sights, silencers. They have a real nice AR with additional optics and the sort. The weapons that Starbuck and Helo had were pretty damned basic.
Either way, looking at the human resistance, a heft number of those guns have to be civilian. Especialy when you consider the number of people with weapons training.
Everything we are seeing indicates that civilian ownership of weapons is perfectly legit. The grenade launcher for the Kobol team makes that even more clear.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
HAB'll be so proud... 
