Evangelion VS. Gundam

[Archaic`]

On the note about the Evas and their Power Cables...

Unit 0's got Rei piloting it. Considering that she's demonstrated the same powers as Tabris, then we could assume that she could control any Eva she wants, without any need for a power cable.
For Unit 2, that one went Beserker at the end of EoE after it'd lost all its power, and was actually struggling on the fake lances for some time before the MP Evas flew down and ate it.

Seems that's one weakness of the Evas rended moot, if we're only considering the two sides as they would be at top strength anyway.

[SylasGaunt]

On the note about the Evas and their Power Cables...

Unit 0's got Rei piloting it. Considering that she's demonstrated the same powers as Tabris, then we could assume that she could control any Eva she wants, without any need for a power cable.

Except she hasn't exhibited any of the powers Tabris used aside from generating an AT field, and the idea she can control any Eva she wants is contradicted by the incident with Unit-0 (where she was injured in the first place) and Unit-01 absolutely refusing to operate for her.

For Unit 2, that one went Beserker at the end of EoE after it'd lost all its power, and was actually struggling on the fake lances for some time before the MP Evas flew down and ate it.

I'd have to rewatch EoE but I don't recall the berserker incident.

Seems that's one weakness of the Evas rended moot, if we're only considering the two sides as they would be at top strength anyway.

Wrong, considering that weakness (among many others) is present in the majority of evidence. If we're assuming the states that got Unit-02 to move then there's no fight worth mentioning as Asuka gets atomized while she's still busy blubbering in the entry plug.


Given that it would be a relatively simple matter for the more conventional mobile suits to utterly trash the Evangelion's support structure while the more powerful examples (X, Double-X, Devil, Turn-A, Turn-X, Wing, Wing Zero, Tallgeese III, Apsalus, etc.) distracted the evas.

[Archaic`]

On the note about the Evas and their Power Cables...

Unit 0's got Rei piloting it. Considering that she's demonstrated the same powers as Tabris, then we could assume that she could control any Eva she wants, without any need for a power cable.

Except she hasn't exhibited any of the powers Tabris used aside from generating an AT field, and the idea she can control any Eva she wants is contradicted by the incident with Unit-0 (where she was injured in the first place) and Unit-01 absolutely refusing to operate for her.

As a clone of the Angel Lillith, it only stands to reason she has the power. Why she didn't use it at that point in time (If indeed Rei II could use it. It may be specific to Rei III) is not something I can explain.

For Unit 2, that one went Beserker at the end of EoE after it'd lost all its power, and was actually struggling on the fake lances for some time before the MP Evas flew down and ate it.

I'd have to rewatch EoE but I don't recall the berserker incident.[/quote]

*Shrugs* It's there. Didn't last for long, but that's mainly because it got eaten other than anything else.

Seems that's one weakness of the Evas rended moot, if we're only considering the two sides as they would be at top strength anyway.

Wrong, considering that weakness (among many others) is present in the majority of evidence. If we're assuming the states that got Unit-02 to move then there's no fight worth mentioning as Asuka gets atomized while she's still busy blubbering in the entry plug.[/quote]

If we assume they're at top strength, then what's in the "majority of evidence" doesn't exactly count, only their absolute maximum power levels. One would note that even the trashed Eva-2 is still more powerful in Beserker than it would've been at any point during the series, simply because of her 300%+ sync ratio powering that AT field.

Besides, "Momma" would still be projecting the AT Field even if Asuka's there "blubbering". And as I recall, the pilots aren't exactly in control when the Evas go apeshit.

Given that it would be a relatively simple matter for the more conventional mobile suits to utterly trash the Evangelion's support structure while the more powerful examples (X, Double-X, Devil, Turn-A, Turn-X, Wing, Wing Zero, Tallgeese III, Apsalus, etc.) distracted the evas.

Oh, so this is all the Gundams and any Mobile Suit from any series at once from both the Universal Century and the Alternate Universe After Colony timelines? Well then, it becomes a question of do the Evas even need a support structure after launch. If we assume them at top strength, then that's a no, and since the primary objectives are the Evas anyway, destroying their support structure becomes rather irrelevant.

[SylasGaunt]

As a clone of the Angel Lillith, it only stands to reason she has the power. Why she didn't use it at that point in time (If indeed Rei II could use it. It may be specific to Rei III) is not something I can explain.

Except Tabris isn't a Lillith clone is she? If it was a simple matter of being an Angel then NERV would have been screwed from the word go. Further Unit-01 is also a lillith clone yet we don't see it randomly taking over Evas do we?

If we assume they're at top strength, then what's in the "majority of evidence" doesn't exactly count, only their absolute maximum power levels.

When that absolute maximum power requires a long and convuluted series of circumstances to bring about it's use it does. Also we've seen at least one example of a berserk eva shutting down when it's power ran out.

One would note that even the trashed Eva-2 is still more powerful in Beserker than it would've been at any point during the series, simply because of her 300%+ sync ratio powering that AT field.

Ah yet another Voyager-esque bit of non-sensicalness with the synch ratios. And where's it pointed out Synch ratio has anything to do with the AT field strength?

Besides, "Momma" would still be projecting the AT Field even if Asuka's there "blubbering". And as I recall, the pilots aren't exactly in control when the Evas go apeshit.

You're assuming that the Eva's going to have time to go berserk. Something that only happens when the angels are dumb enough to jerk around and let it (but then given the intelligence levels of most of hte angels I shouldn't be surprised).

Oh, so this is all the Gundams and any Mobile Suit from any series at once from both the Universal Century and the Alternate Universe After Colony timelines? Well then, it becomes a question of do the Evas even need a support structure after launch.

Yes because you see there's precisely ONE eva with an S2 engine to keep it running. And timeline is not specified in the opening post.

If we assume them at top strength, then that's a no, and since the primary objectives are the Evas anyway, destroying their support structure becomes rather irrelevant.

Hardly irrelavent since with the support structure gone all the mobile suits need to do is withdrawl for a bit and the berserk evas will shut down. Then you have the wing gundam happily come back and nuke them.

[Archaic`]

As a clone of the Angel Lillith, it only stands to reason she has the power. Why she didn't use it at that point in time (If indeed Rei II could use it. It may be specific to Rei III) is not something I can explain.

Except Tabris isn't a Lillith clone is she? If it was a simple matter of being an Angel then NERV would have been screwed from the word go. Further Unit-01 is also a lillith clone yet we don't see it randomly taking over Evas do we?

Could you restate your first sentance? I'm assuming you meant "Except Rei isn't a Lillith clone is she?", but I can't be sure. If that *was* your question, then the answer's yes. Sort of. Her genetic makeup is a mixture of Yui Ikari and Lillith, though the part of her that is Yui seems to be only skin deep.
In any case, Rei III was most certainly in posession of Angelic Powers. We cannot quantify her limits, however similar abilities to those of Tabris would seem appropriate considering the events inside of 3rd Impact.

If we assume they're at top strength, then what's in the "majority of evidence" doesn't exactly count, only their absolute maximum power levels.

When that absolute maximum power requires a long and convuluted series of circumstances to bring about it's use it does. Also we've seen at least one example of a berserk eva shutting down when it's power ran out.

Not when we're ignoring timeline issues as you state below it doesn't.
What would this example be? As I recall, there were only 3 recorded instances of the Eva going Beserk. Eva 1 went beserk against the 3rd and in the battle where it gained its S2. Eva 2 went beserk in EoE.

Ah, wait, I know. You refer to Eva 1's battle against the 4th angel, correct? Eva 1 wasn't Beserk at that time, though it's a common misconception. Shinji was in complete control.

One would note that even the trashed Eva-2 is still more powerful in Beserker than it would've been at any point during the series, simply because of her 300%+ sync ratio powering that AT field.

Ah yet another Voyager-esque bit of non-sensicalness with the synch ratios. And where's it pointed out Synch ratio has anything to do with the AT field strength?

It doesn't have a direct relationship. I should've stated this differently.
Really, the AT Field is the "light of the soul", powered by the sheer will of the person using it. The Sync Ratio would be better used to quantify just how well one could control that raw power.

Besides, "Momma" would still be projecting the AT Field even if Asuka's there "blubbering". And as I recall, the pilots aren't exactly in control when the Evas go apeshit.

You're assuming that the Eva's going to have time to go berserk. Something that only happens when the angels are dumb enough to jerk around and let it (but then given the intelligence levels of most of hte angels I shouldn't be surprised).

We're assuming that timeline issues are irrelevant for this battle in any case, so it makes no difference.

Oh, so this is all the Gundams and any Mobile Suit from any series at once from both the Universal Century and the Alternate Universe After Colony timelines? Well then, it becomes a question of do the Evas even need a support structure after launch.

Yes because you see there's precisely ONE eva with an S2 engine to keep it running. And timeline is not specified in the opening post.

In which case, if timeline considerations aren't a problem, I suppose that makes it legal for Eva units 3 and 4 to be included in this, even though there's no way they could ever have battled side by side? That makes Eva 1, Eva 3, Eva 4 and Evas 5 through 14 as S2 Engine Units.

If we assume them at top strength, then that's a no, and since the primary objectives are the Evas anyway, destroying their support structure becomes rather irrelevant.

Hardly irrelavent since with the support structure gone all the mobile suits need to do is withdrawl for a bit and the berserk evas will shut down. Then you have the wing gundam happily come back and nuke them.

1) Wing Gundam has no Nuke ability.
2) If timeline considerations are irrelevant, than such things as support structure are irrelevant. It becomes a simply pitched battle.
3) Beserk Evas won't power down until their mission is complete or they're destroyed
4) How much support does a Beserk Eva need when they've already demonstrated the power to self heal not only their actual bodies but their "armour" (ie. The restraints) as well? (Though since only Unit 1 demonstrated that ability, perhaps we should take that as proof it perhaps having access to Angelic abilities from it being a clone of Lillith.)

[Draco Starcloud]

No Gundam weapon has ever reached the Terawatt range, with the only exceptions probobly being the Buster Rifle, Twin Buster Rifle, Vayeate's Beam Cannon (I heard it was as powerful as the Buster Rifle, but I doubt it), and the TGIII's Mega Cannon. Beam Sabers are usually between 1 and 2 MW in power. Well, for UC at least.

[The Dark]

I don't think it really matters (for the Tabris-Rei comaprison) whether or not Rei is a Lilith, since IIRC, Tabris is a clone of Adam.

Also IIRC (haven't seen any of Eva in a while), 5-13 only use the false Lances as weapons. Eva-04 failed upon powering up, annihilating NERV-02 and the Eva. Eva-03 was the Thirteenth Angel, and thus useless for NERV, as it became an enemy, overwhelming its pilot. Eva-0 to Eva-02 require the power umbilical, limiting strategic and tactical flexibility.

I don't know who would win, but it's important that we establish certain ideas. For example, we should make sure to discuss whether we're using AC or UC Gundams, and also to try to mention where evidence comes from (I know, I didn't, but that's because I don't remember which episodes I saw).

[SylasGaunt]

Could you restate your first sentance? I'm assuming you meant "Except Rei isn't a Lillith clone is she?", but I can't be sure. If that *was* your question, then the answer's yes. Sort of. Her genetic makeup is a mixture of Yui Ikari and Lillith, though the part of her that is Yui seems to be only skin deep.

This is why I wish we had an edit button. Anyway, Tabris wasn't a Lillith clone and he controlled the Eva. Rei is a lillith/yui mix.. and seeing as how pretty much EVERY angel has it's own set of abilities there really isn't any kind of evidence to support Rei having the same abilities as Tabris, especially since she hasn't shown them.

In any case, Rei III was most certainly in posession of Angelic Powers. We cannot quantify her limits, however similar abilities to those of Tabris would seem appropriate considering the events inside of 3rd Impact.

She's used an AT field, that hardly just arbitrarily declare that she has Tabris' abilities.

[QUOTE}
Not when we're ignoring timeline issues as you state below it doesn't.
What would this example be? As I recall, there were only 3 recorded instances of the Eva going Beserk. Eva 1 went beserk against the 3rd and in the battle where it gained its S2. Eva 2 went beserk in EoE.[/QUOTE]

Eva-0 went beserk and tried to kill Gendo remember, then shut down when it's batteries ran out.

It doesn't have a direct relationship. I should've stated this differently.
Really, the AT Field is the "light of the soul", powered by the sheer will of the person using it. The Sync Ratio would be better used to quantify just how well one could control that raw power.

Yes, the Synch ratio represents how well the pilot can control the eva.. though I'm still trying to figure out the idiocy of the 3 and 4 hundred percent synch rates. Though given the way you decide to describe I feel I must question then why a spineless wuss seems to be the best at it.

We're assuming that timeline issues are irrelevant for this battle in any case, so it makes no difference.

Kindly point me to the post by the thread starter that states that? The fact of the matter is that the Evas only go berserk when the pilot can't seem to cut it, it NEVER starts off that way in a fight thus there's no reason to believe they would here.

In which case, if timeline considerations aren't a problem, I suppose that makes it legal for Eva units 3 and 4 to be included in this, even though there's no way they could ever have battled side by side? That makes Eva 1, Eva 3, Eva 4 and Evas 5 through 14 as S2 Engine Units.

Well Eva-04 isn't a consideration simply because there's no pilot. Eva-03's pilot has zip in the way of training, and the evangelion side's already pulled out units 5 through 13 so it has little bearing.

1) Wing Gundam has no Nuke ability.

You're very literal minded aren't you.

2) If timeline considerations are irrelevant, than such things as support structure are irrelevant. It becomes a simply pitched battle.

What kind of idiocy is this? Support structure always enters into what is essentially a war. That's like claiming that the Mobile Suits wouldn't be affected if Zeon stopped sending them ammunition.

3) Beserk Evas won't power down until their mission is complete or they're destroyed

Proof? Every other time they've gone berserk with the exception of Unit-0 (which shut down when its power ran out) they've shut down once they've lacked a target to engage.

4) How much support does a Beserk Eva need when they've already demonstrated the power to self heal not only their actual bodies but their "armour" (ie. The restraints) as well? (Though since only Unit 1 demonstrated that ability, perhaps we should take that as proof it perhaps having access to Angelic abilities from it being a clone of Lillith.)

Little things like food and oxygen for the pilots, ammunition for their weapons, etc. apperantly don't matter in an extended fight, riiiiight

And I should also point out that there is one case of Unit-01 repairing relatively minor damage to its armor and body without outside assistance. When it lost it's arm to the 14th angel it required that angel's bio-mass to repair the damage. Quite different from just reknitting a bone. In the same episode where it repairs the arm it doesn't manage to remair it's helmet.

[SylasGaunt]

No Gundam weapon has ever reached the Terawatt range, with the only exceptions probobly being the Buster Rifle, Twin Buster Rifle, Vayeate's Beam Cannon (I heard it was as powerful as the Buster Rifle, but I doubt it), and the TGIII's Mega Cannon. Beam Sabers are usually between 1 and 2 MW in power. Well, for UC at least.

I'm referring to the Tallgeese 1's beam saber.

[Draco Starcloud]

I know you were referring to the TG1's Beam Saber, but I still doubt it reaches the Terawatt range. Except when it's a Main Character attacking, AC Beam Weapons tend not to do a whole lot of damage to anything.

[Darth Fanboy]

Unit 0's got Rei piloting it. Considering that she's demonstrated the same powers as Tabris, then we could assume that she could control any Eva she wants, without any need for a power cable.

Except for when unit 1 rejected her.

[SylasGaunt]

I know you were referring to the TG1's Beam Saber, but I still doubt it reaches the Terawatt range. Except when it's a Main Character attacking, AC Beam Weapons tend not to do a whole lot of damage to anything.

Actually it's usually the other way around as I recall with most mobile suits without main characters piloting going up in flames from just about any hit.

[SylasGaunt]

There's also another calc somewhere that put the Wing gundam's beam saber at 454 gigawatts