Transformers Reactions Thread - No spoilers until July 4th

[brianeyci]

To me it seemed as if the humans were killed as collateral damage, while the Decepticons focused solely on the all spark.

That's probably because they were focused solely on the Allspark. Y'know, since they've been searching for it for thousands of years and it's the only reason they came to Earth in the first place.

See, but with people familiar with movies, at least good movies, you know that the hero will never die because of collateral damage. My point in bringing up that focus on all spark solely and not on killing humans was to relate to the no threat to the hero at any time point. Megatron and the Decepticons should've been depicted as going out of their way to hurt humans, rather than humans dying because they were in the way. You know that won't happen to the hero, that it'll take a concentrated effort from an antagonist who has been demonstrated to pose a threat to the hero from the beginning. People in real life die by accident all the time, but let's face it in good movies the main hero doesn't die by accident. Instead we have this disconnected plot where the humans are the main focus of the movie (it's Sam's movie) but never the ones the Decepticons want to kill, not even after Megatron awakes to find humans have kept him captive for thousands of years. What happened to good old revenge? It was all spark first, Autobots second, humans third and Sam distant fourth, even after the humans posed a far greater threat to Megatron than Optimus ever did.

[brianeyci]

EDIT: Oh yeah, I don't think fighting in the city was that bad an idea at all. Reading through this thread, it sounded as if brass decided going into the city was the best way to fight the Decepticons, that you guys were accusing the United States military as a whole of being morons. But in the movie, it was a small group of guys and Lennox, who wanted to get to the nearest civilized area so they could make phone calls and call in the airforce. Fighting in the city was cool.

Thing is I felt that Will Smith's character in I, Robot was under real threat when the demolition robot went after him in the house. In the exact same kind of scene in Transformers I didn't feel as if Sam was under real threat when Megatron was doing the same thing in the government building at the end. It was either too little, too late, or something else. It's hard to put words into feelings, but the high stakes just weren't there.

Not to say it's a bad movie. It's definitely watchable, but I can understand why some people wouldn't want to watch it or have a meh reaction.

[Bladed_Crescent]

Megatron should've been cruel. When he was unfrozen he should've picked up a human in his hands, had the guy cower in fear and then he should've bust out his I am Megatron line and crushed the fleshbag. The Sector 7 guy -- he should've died in a bloody way. The SecDef should've died too. The token black guy should've died, and made the signals girl feel guilty as hell for dragging someone into that mess.

You mean something like this?

Megatron and the Decepticons should've been depicted as going out of their way to hurt humans, rather than humans dying because they were in the way.

Why? Their entire objective was to acquire the Allspark and the Autobots were trying to take it away from them. If they went on rampages for no reason, that would cost them time that the army and Autobots could use to get the Cube to safety.

There was no point to massacring humans for the sake of massacring them - once the Decepticons had the Allspark and the Autobots were defeated, then they'd probably start the killing. Until then, it would be a waste of resources - every Decepticon that's running amok and killing humans is one not fighting the Autobots and/or trying to secure the Allspark.

[Shroom Man 777]

You mean something like this?

That crazy guy Looks Like Hitler.

[VF5SS]

You mean something like this? :)

Man, David Willis is a huge wanker. The movie basically did that when the giant robot scorpion stabbed a guy through the chest. Never mind the scene where Barricade backhands Sam. People usually get hurt and bleed in these situations, not so in Transformers. War of the Worlds had blood sucking aliens, we couldn't even get a guy to bleed in Transformers. What the hell, Speilberg.

Until then, it would be a waste of resources - every Decepticon that's running amok and killing humans is one not fighting the Autobots and/or trying to secure the Allspark.

Right because Blackout and Brawl were trying to secure the Allspark and not wallowing around killing humans like they were in the movie. Megatron bargaining with Sam was so stupid. Just take the magic box already! You're a giant robot, you can grab people!

[Bladed_Crescent]

The movie basically did that when the giant robot scorpion stabbed a guy through the chest.

A single guy getting stabbed and someone else being backhanded is not equivalent to filling the movie with additional bloody and pointless (at least in my opinion) deaths. I was surprised by what they did show, but at the end of day, despite the innuendo and violence, having the streets run red with blood and characters being picked off in gruesome fashions is completely out of character for the franchise.

Right because Blackout and Brawl were trying to secure the Allspark and not wallowing around killing humans like they were in the movie.

Brawl was fighting against humans that were supporting the Autobots who were blocking him from going after the Allspark and were a direct threat to him; he nor Blackout were grinding through the streets firing at everything that moved. To go after Sam, Brawl'd have to clear the army position first, since he can't fly like Blackout or Starscream. Both of whom did ignore the entrenched soldiers after Sam took the Allspark; Starscream was destroying air support and Blackout was moving to assist Megatron.

[VF5SS]

I was surprised by what they did show, but at the end of day, despite the innuendo and violence, having the streets run red with blood and characters being picked off in gruesome fashions is completely out of character for the franchise.

I don't want the streets to run red with blood, I just want some violence with consequences not this bullshit "nobody gets hurt or we lose our PG-13 rating" crap.

To go after Sam, Brawl'd have to clear the army position first, since he can't fly like Blackout or Starscream.

Good thing he rolled over them like a tank, oh wait. Gimmie something like Blackout's utter domination of the base here. A little consistency doesn't hurt a movie.

Both of whom did ignore the entrenched soldiers after Sam took the Allspark; Starscream was destroying air support and Blackout was moving to assist Megatron.

Nuh uh, they just wallow about in the same spot while the Autobots and humans shoot at them. Starscream was the only one doing his job.

[Bladed_Crescent]

I don't want the streets to run red with blood, I just want some violence with consequences not this bullshit "nobody gets hurt or we lose our PG-13 rating" crap.

Fair enough; I liked it as it was, but different strokes and all that.

I'm just saying that, well, when all is said and done: it's based on a kid's show. That's a genre that's never going to have an overabundance of human-centric violence or scenes with the corpses racking up.

Good thing he rolled over them like a tank, oh wait.

I don't recall ever saying that Brawl was a genius.

Anyways, Lennox (was that the officer's name?) pointed out that sabot rounds can penetrate tank armour; if he did try and grind over them, they'd simply get out of his way and attack from the flanks and rear, maybe blow out his treads. Since it's a lot harder to maneuver through the streets (if only because of the debris and craters everywhere) and bring his turret to bear as a vehicle, why should he have turned into a tank? In robot form, he has more flexibility.

Nuh uh, they just wallow about in the same spot while the Autobots and humans shoot at them. Starscream was the only one doing his job.

Brawl, as mentioned, was trying to clear out that nest of soldiers. We see Blackout attack the soldiers from the rear and then later on, he descends from above, changing from helicopter to robot form in order to 'sneak up' on Prime, so he was doing something; he's loyal to Megatron, so it's unlikely that he was off 'wallowing'. In the game, he was fighting Ironhide, but take that for whatever it's worth.

[VF5SS]

I don't want the streets to run red with blood, I just want some violence with consequences not this bullshit "nobody gets hurt or we lose our PG-13 rating" crap.

Fair enough; I liked it as it was, but different strokes and all that.

I'm just saying that, well, when all is said and done: it's based on a kid's show. That's a genre that's never going to have an overabundance of human-centric violence or scenes with the corpses racking up.

It's based on a kids show sure, but with a PG-13 rating and all the titillation and language, it's pretty clear this caters to an older audience. Like I said, I don't want Platoon but some of the violence seems cartoony and out of place and really took me out of the moment.

I don't recall ever saying that Brawl was a genius. :)

Yeah. At least he didn't have a glass jaw like most of the Decepticons. Although he couldn't hit the broad side of a GMC truck.

Anyways, Lennox (was that the officer's name?) pointed out that sabot rounds can penetrate tank armour; if he did try and grind over them, they'd simply get out of his way and attack from the flanks and rear, maybe blow out his treads. Since it's a lot harder to maneuver through the streets (if only because of the debris and craters everywhere) and bring his turret to bear as a vehicle, why should he have turned into a tank? In robot form, he has more flexibility.

Most tanks have a machine gun for dealing with infantry. I know normally you want infantry support for a tank to prevent flanking and stuff like that but Brawl could've revved up his engines and did a little plowing. Don't forget he drives over cars to get the humans. Even if he did need to be robot mode, he could've at least advanced on the humans instead of staying put.

Brawl, as mentioned, was trying to clear out that nest of soldiers. We see Blackout attack the soldiers from the rear and then later on, he descends from above, changing from helicopter to robot form in order to 'sneak up' on Prime, so he was doing something; he's loyal to Megatron, so it's unlikely that he was off 'wallowing'. In the game, he was fighting Ironhide, but take that for whatever it's worth.

Watching the scene, it looks likes he came down to just cause some havoc. Most of his shots were aimed at the soldiers and not Optimus Prime. And I don't think the game counts since it's pretty divergent from the movie.

[Bladed_Crescent]

Most tanks have a machine gun for dealing with infantry.

This one didn't.

Don't forget he drives over cars to get the humans.

Hence why I mentioned the debris and the cratered road as well. He obviously got into the city well enough, but given the damage to the surrounding area, it would be easier to step over a bit of rough terrain then snag a track on it. At least that's my theory.

Even if he did need to be robot mode, he could've at least advanced on the humans instead of staying put.

He was advancing; when Bumblebee shot him down, Brawl crashed through the shop the soldiers were hiding in. When the fight started, he was at the very end of the street.

Watching the scene, it looks likes he came down to just cause some havoc. Most of his shots were aimed at the soldiers and not Optimus Prime.

He came down and made a beeline for Megatron and Prime, slashing up some cars in his path. He brought out the blade-sword-thing as he was stalking Prime (didn't want to hit Megatron by mistake/miss and alert Prime) and fired on the soldiers when they got in his way and then later when he noticed the laser targeting on his chasis. "Trying to blow me up" is a pretty good reason to fire on someone in my opinion.

And I don't think the game counts since it's pretty divergent from the movie.

I have no idea, which is why I mentioned 'for what it's worth'; I was looking for some Blackout clips on Youtube and there were a whole bunch of Ironhide/Blackout cinematics there.

[andrewgpaul]

The original movie had graphic character deaths (well, for robots anyway) and disturbing scenes, so it's not like there's no precedent.

The movie had cartoon deaths of robots; no humans were killed, or even injured in the cartoon movie. That'd be more likely to be allowed by the censors. The guy who got speared by Skorponok vanished under the sand in a fraction of a second, so there was no gore there, either. The most brutal death was probably the poor sod who got finger-flicked by Megatron.

As for innuendo, I'd imagine it's easier to get that in precisely because it won't register at all to the kids in the audience. Mind you, I could be underestimating the prudery of the MPAA.

[brianeyci]

Where's that quote from Bay that says he didn't want to make a kids movie, and there's no way he'd make a cartoony show?

That deals with intent, but I don't get this cartoon slant. Nobody walks around and says Die Hard should've been PG just for more ticket sales. Transformers was a reboot and not a continuation of the cartoon, and there's plenty of comics and cartoons with death and violence in them. The thing is, I'm not saying that blood or gore would've made the stakes higher, though blood wouldn't have hurt. Like it or not it was not a movie about big robots, it was a movie about Sam, and he wasn't the focus of the antagonists. Whether this is consistent with the transformers universe I couldn't give a fuck. Either they should've made the movie more about the robots, or made the bad guys care more about the humans. Instead we get a halfassed view, and you never feel Sam is in danger. In the beginning he was protected because they needed him to know where the glasses were, so no mortal threat. In the end... Megatron bargained with him. Sigh.

[ray245]

One reason is because the head excutives are scared of what would people think of talking robots with emotions. Which is exactly what some dumbass critics pointed out as the MAIN reason why it sucks to them.

But without a strong box office performace, and high public rating, I think the producers can feel more safe to focus the story about the transformers themselves in the sequel.