Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

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Simon_Jester
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Simon_Jester »

jollyreaper wrote:One big difference between Tom Clancy WWIII missile massacres and honorverse versions is there's a top speed for antiship missiles is a top speed. For a modern missile, running at max speed would affect range but it's perfectly possible to cruise at half speed to reach the target and speed up to supersonic before entering the engagement envelope. There's no max speed in space, just max delta-v. I believe it was established these missiles can choose between hard acceleration or maximum delta-v?
Correct, though it's unclear whether the missiles' choices are limited to a couple of fixed drive settings, or a continuously variable 'throttle.'
So the choice is in travel time and maximum velocity which means when will the weapon reach the target and what are the odds it will survive? It seems like increased speed increases survivability without hampering accuracy. It would suck if higher speed was inversely correlated with accuracy, meaning that the more likely you evade defenses, the less likely you hit the target.
Honorverse missiles seem to be capable of hitting fairly accurately at pretty much their maximum possible speed; the hardware is capable of it. But there almost has to be some inverse correlation between speed and accuracy. Especially when missile warheads are flying past a ship that's interposed its impeller bands and need to score a hit on a crossing target.
It would haw been hysterical to see the Enterprise confronting an opponent from a lesser power and just transport the warp core out of their ship and park it three kilometers off their bow. "Can we give talking another try?"
I would love that.
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Ahriman238
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Ahriman238 »

Correct, though it's unclear whether the missiles' choices are limited to a couple of fixed drive settings, or a continuously variable 'throttle.'
We see missiles alter acceleration to break and turn or throw the throttle wide open, almost always as part of terminal maneuvers.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Batman »

We do? I know they can maneuvre radically (well for the Honorverse definition of radical) but I don't recall any mention of acceleration changes.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Ahriman238 »

Now we come to the fourth book, Field of Dishonor, which nearly killed the series for me. Definitely my least favorite, but a decent place to wrap up the thread. In my view, the Honor Harrington books rather naturally divide themselves into rough thirds: Early Honor is the first through fourth books, Mid-Honor is up through Ashes of Victory, and the Late stuff is everything after. Why? Well, when we started Honor was a starship captain with something of a temper problem, who didn't know or care anything about politics. Everything was about the impending war with Haven, and securing an advantageous position. Now the war's begun, after this book Honor's temper doesn't really come up, and the next book will introduce Honor to the life of both a flag officer and a major political figure. She will enjoy single-ship command again, for one more book and a bit of the next, but from here on out it's not a story about a single starship commander. There's also a minor poetry in that this period begins and ends with Pavel Young.

So, let's do this thing.


"A perusal of Admiral Sarnow's pre-battle briefings and discussions with his squadron commanders and captains will, I feel, make it abundantly evident that all of them understood his intention to divert the enemy from the base by any means possible, specifically including the use of his own ships as decoys. At the same time, in fairness to Lord Young, I should perhaps also point out that those same discussions had also covered the Admiral's intention for his force to scatter and evade independently once it became evident that further diversion had become impossible, although execution of such an evolution was, of course, contingent upon express orders from the flagship."
Briefing prior to court-martial, the major point being that while everyone knew the plan was to scatter after hitting that point, they were supposed to wait for the order from the flagship.

"I don't think there's any question that Lady Harrington exceeded her own authority in failing to pass command, Sir Lucius. At the same time, however, there can be neither doubt about nor excuse for Lord Young's actions. I endorse Admiral Parks' recommendation without reservation."

"Agreed." Cortez's voice was grim, his eyes and mouth even tighter than what they'd just seen seemed to justify, then he shook himself. "As for Lady Harrington's actions, Admiral Sarnow, Admiral Parks, the First Space Lord, Baroness Morncreek, and Her Majesty herself have all endorsed them. I don't think you need to concern yourself over them, Alyce."
An impressive list of people have said that Honor was in the right not to transfer command as per the regs.

"Yes. But let me add something—something for everyone here." The Fifth Space Lord stood and turned to the white-faced JAG officers seated behind the two admirals, and his expression was stern. "I wish to remind you—all of you—that what you have just seen is privileged information. Lady Harrington and Lord Young have not yet even returned from Hancock, and neither this briefing nor anything else which you have heard, seen, or read concerning this case is for public consumption until the formation of the court itself is announced by my office. Is that clear?"
This briefing and proceedings are under the strictest seal of security until- yeah the news leaks.

Alexander seldom considered his own birth—except, perhaps, to wish from time to time that he'd been born to a less prominent and powerful family, free to ignore the tradition of public service his father and grandfather had bred into his blood and bone—but it was the core of High Ridge's existence. It was all that really mattered to him, a guarantor of power and prestige, and the narrow-minded defense of privilege lay at the heart of his political philosophy, such as it was. Indeed, it was the rallying point of the entire Conservative Association, which explained why it had virtually no representation in the House of Commons, and it went far to explain the Association's xenophobic isolationism. After all, anything that might cause stress and change in the Manticoran political system was one more dangerous force to conspire against their exalted lot!
Baron High Ridge, leader of the Conservative Association and William Alexander's (White Haven's brother) opinion of him and the Association.

Their own Centrist Party held a clear sixty-vote majority in the Commons, but only a plurality in the Upper House. With the alliance of the Crown Loyalists and the Association, the Cromarty Government could poll a narrow majority in the Lords; without the Association, that majority disappeared, and that made High Ridge, insufferable as he was and loathsome as he might be, critically important.
Balance of power in Parliament, the power of a coalition.

"Assuming a court-martial were being contemplated," Cromarty said softly, "that fact would be legally restricted to the Admiralty, the Crown, and this office until the decision was made and publicly announced—a restriction designed, among other things, to protect the reputations of those against whom such actions are contemplated. The individual who provided it to you would be in violation of the Defense of the Realm Act and the Official Secrets Act, and, if a serving member of the military, of the Articles of War, not to mention the oaths he—or she—has personally sworn to the Crown. I insist that you give me a name, My Lord."

"And I respectfully refuse, Your Grace." A corner of High Ridge's lip curled in disdain at the very thought that laws applied to him, and a dangerous, fulminating silence hovered in the office. Alexander wondered if the baron even realized just how fragile was the ice upon which he stood. Allen Summervale would tolerate a great many things in the name of politics; violation of DORA or the Official Secrets Act wasn't one of them, especially not in time of war, and High Ridge's refusal to identify his informant constituted complicity under the Star Kingdom's law.

But the moment passed. Cromarty's jaw ridged, and his eyes glittered ominously, but he shoved himself further back in his chair and made himself inhale deeply.

"Very well, My Lord. I won't press you—this time," he said in a hard voice that, for once, made no effort to conceal his opinion of the other. Not that High Ridge seemed to notice; the threatening qualifier rolled off the armor of his arrogance like water, and he smiled again.
For the moment, High Ridge is too necessary to enforce the rules, but his acts and attitude will not be forgotten, though his comeuppance be many years in the making, and he'll have dug himself a much deeper hole by then.

"Of course, Your Grace. Assuming the information in my possession is accurate—and I think it is, given your refusal to deny it—this is only one more step in the Admiralty's unwarranted persecution of Lord Young. The Navy's persistent efforts to make him some sort of whipping boy for the tragic events on Basilisk Station have been an insult and an affront which, I believe, he has borne with remarkable equanimity. This, however, is a far more serious situation, and one that no one with a decent respect for justice can allow to pass unchallenged."

-snip-

"The Conservative Association," High Ridge said, eyes gleaming with that same, strange triumph, "has, of course, made a very careful study of the Government's request for a declaration of war against the People's Republic of Haven."

Alexander stiffened once more, eyes widening in horrified disbelief, and High Ridge glanced at him, then went on with a sort of gloating exultation.

"Naturally, the Havenite attacks on our territory and warships must be viewed with the gravest concern. Given recent events within the People's Republic, however, we believe that a more . . . reasoned response is in order. I fully realize the Admiralty desires to act promptly and powerfully against the Havenites, but the Admiralty often suffers from the shortsightedness of a military institution and overlooks the importance of restraint. Interstellar political problems have a way of working themselves out over time, after all, particularly in a position such as this. And, from the Association's viewpoint, the Admiralty's unmerited hostility towards Lord Young is a further indication that its judgment is . . . not infallible, shall we say?"

"Get to the point, My Lord!" Cromarty snapped, all pretense of affability abandoned, and High Ridge shrugged.

"Of course, Your Grace—to the point. Which is, I fear, that I must regretfully inform you that if the Government pushes for a declaration of war and unrestricted military operations against the People's Republic at this time, the Conservative Association will have no choice but to go into opposition as a matter of principle."
Breaking up the coalition, the framing of the scene makes it pretty clear this is about Young, though they likely would have broken away anyways because in these books only the Centrists get to have a clue how any aspect of foreign policy works.

"We had to throw out three initial selections because the officers in question are out-system, Milady," Cortez said as Morncreek scanned the names, and she and Caparelli both nodded. By long tradition, the Bureau of Personnel's computers randomly selected the members of a court-martial sitting on a capital offense from all serving officers of sufficient rank. Given the Manticoran Navy's current deployments, they were hitting well above the average if only three of the initial choices had been unavailable.

"The members of the court, in order of seniority, are listed there. Admiral White Haven—" Cortez glanced sideways at Caparelli "—will be senior officer, assuming he returns from Chelsea in time. We anticipate that he will. The other members are all in-system now and will remain here."

Morncreek nodded, then winced as she read the other names.

"Should any of those listed become unavailable for any reason, we've selected three alternates, as well. They're listed on the next screen, Milady."
For court martial of capital crimes, they use a random name generator filled with senior officers to pick the panel of judges, then throw out any names unavailable or, presumably, personally involved in the case. Though there are enough senior officers I doubt that last case comes up often.

"The problem," Morncreek said with slow precision, "is that our scrupulously fair selection process has just presented us with one hell of a dogfight. I don't know about Captain Simengaard or Admiral Kuzak, but all four of the others are going to have their own axes to grind."
So we have a panel of two judges going to vote their conscience, three judges going to vote their politics (for acquittal) and White Haven running the zoo and not necessarily unbiased, though he will take his oath to avoid bias seriously.

No one knew where the People's Republic was headed. Available reports suggested that the Navy had attempted a coup following its initial defeats, but if it had, it certainly hadn't done so very effectively. The attack that wiped out the entire Havenite government—and the heads of most of the prominent Legislaturalist families which had run it—had been as brilliant as it was savage, but there'd been no effective follow-through, and it had provoked the formation of a Committee of Public Safety in the People's Quorum. That committee now controlled the central organs of the PRH, and it was moving with merciless dispatch to assure that no military coup could succeed.

The result was chaos within the Havenite military. No one yet knew how many officers had been arrested, but the arrest—and execution—of Admiral Amos Parnell, the PN's chief of naval operations, and his chief of staff had been confirmed. There were also confused reports of resistance and infighting as the new committee pressed ahead with its purge of "unreliable" senior officers, and one or two of the Republic's member systems seemed to have seized the chance to rebel against the hated central government.

Every strategic bone in Caparelli's body cried out to ram the Star Kingdom's current advantage home. The enemy was in disorder, savaging himself internally, some, at least, of his star systems in open rebellion and his senior officers more than half paralyzed lest any act of initiative be misconstrued as treason against the new regime. God only knew how many of them might actually come over to Manticore's side if the RMN pressed a heavy offensive now!

The thought of watching such a chance slip through his hands turned Caparelli's stomach, but he hadn't been allowed to do anything about it. In fact, he might never be allowed to, and the reason was politics.

Duke Cromarty's majority in Parliament had disappeared with the defection of both the Conservative Association and Sir Sheridan Wallace's "New Men" to the side of the Opposition. The Government's support in the Commons was solid; in the Lords, it was well short of a majority . . . and there'd been no formal declaration of war.

Caparelli's teeth ground together in acid frustration. Of course there hadn't! The People's Republic had never declared war during its half-century of conquest; such formal niceties would only have served to warn its victims. The Star Kingdom, unfortunately, didn't do things that way. Without a formal, legal declaration, carried in both houses, the Constitution empowered the Cromarty Government only to defend the integrity of the Star Kingdom. Anything more aggressive required the declaration of a state of war, and the Opposition leaders insisted the letter of the law be obeyed.
Naturally, while they break the law at will. A bit of the situation in Haven from a Mantie perspective, the Committee is still consolidating power and yes, a few planets are in open revolt. But as will be said later, Haven is shifting into something much more dangerous than the Legislaturist regime.

Oh, and Haven has never once formally declared war on ne of it's conquests, hardly surprising.

Their solidarity was unlikely to last, for their philosophies and motives were too fundamentally contradictory, but for the moment those motives were reinforcing one another, not clashing.

The Liberals hated the very thought of military operations. Once their initial panic had passed, they'd responded with a spinal reflex opposition to all things military that never consulted the forebrain at all. They knew better than to publicly restate their long-standing position that Manticore's military buildup was an unnecessary provocation of Haven—even they saw the suicide potential in that, given the public reaction to recent events—but they'd found another way to justify resistance to sanity. They'd decided what was happening inside the People's Republic represented the birth of a reform movement committed to the overthrow of "the old, militaristic regime" in recognition of "the uselessness of resorts to brute force," and they wanted "to help the reformers achieve their goals in a climate of peace and amity."

Their allies in Earl Gray Hill's Progressive Party no more believed in the pacifism of this Committee of Public Safety than Caparelli did. They wanted to let the PRH stew in its own juice—after all, if the Republic self-destructed, there'd be no need for further military operations—which made them even stupider than the Liberals. Whoever the brains behind the Committee of Public Safety was, he'd acted with dispatch and energy to secure control. Unless someone from outside toppled him, he was going to hang onto it, and sooner or later he'd finish crushing the last domestic resistance and turn his attention back to Manticore.

Then there was the Conservative Association—reactionary, xenophobic, isolationist to the core . . . and pigheaded enough to make the Progressives look smart. The Conservatives believed (or claimed to believe) that the Republic's initial, shattering reverses would lead the new leadership to abandon any further thought of attacking the Manticoran Alliance lest still worse befall them, which overlooked both the tonnage imbalance and the fact that the People's Navy had to be lusting to avenge its humiliation. And last, and most contemptible, were the New Men, whose sole motive was a cynical bid to secure greater parliamentary clout by selling their votes to the highest bidder.
The opinions of Manticore's diverse political life. The New Men don't really have a Bristih/US equivalent, but they're a small party founded on pragmatism and realpolitik, which means mostly mercenary selling of their bloc's votes for concessions and the sweet, sweet pork barrels. Though in fairness, if we hadn't seen Pierre state that they would have to keep up the expansion for decades, both the Liberal and Conservative views would seem possible.

"I'm not saying the fundamental system is unsound. It's served us well for the last four or five T-centuries, after all. But the House of Lords doesn't have to stand for election. That can be a tremendous strength when it comes to resisting popular pressure for unwise policies, but it can also be an equally tremendous weakness. An MP in the Commons knows what will happen in the next general election if he hog-ties the Government at a time like this; the Lords don't have to worry about that, and they've got a marked tendency to create single-viewpoint cliques around their own pet theories of the way things ought to be.

"At the moment, there's a distinct sense of euphoria, of having dodged the pulser dart, coupled with a desire to hide under the blankets till the threat goes away. Of course, it's not going to go away, but they don't want to face that. Eventually, they'll have to, and I pray to God they do it before it's too late, but even if they do, their positions will have hardened. The strain of our own military buildup's polarized our politics, and too many of the Opposition buy into the theory that opposing the use of force—for whatever reason—is inherently 'noble' and not a gutless renunciation of the will—and ability—to resist aggression or any other sort of organized evil! As long as someone else gets on with fighting the war, they can enjoy the luxury of continuing to oppose it to prove their moral superiority, and I'm afraid too many of them are going to do just that.
Show me one time the wise and noble lords bravely defied public pressure to do something foolish. Again, Roger and the Centrist's build-up has alienated too many people.

The Manticoran media had reached a sort of gentleman's agreement with the Crown almost at the Kingdom's founding. In return for an official policy of public availability to the press and restraint in invoking the Official Secrets and Defense of the Realm Acts, the royal family's personal life was effectively off-limits, but there'd been something in the Landing Times about—
The press does not slander or pry into the private lives of the Royal Family.

"Blame Dame Honor, not me, Mike. I know how you hate trading on the family name, but Lady Morncreek tells me it's customary to promote the executive officer of a captain who distinguishes herself in action. Of course, if it really bothers you, I can probably get them to take it back."
What if the XO is a screw-up? Do they always give the XO their own boat if the ships does something spectacular?

"We'll take care of the formalities—including the award of a richly deserved thank you—later in the Blue Hall, but I've decided to appoint you to the rank of Colonel of Marines, as well."

Honor's eyes widened in surprise as great as Henke's. Appointment as a colonel of Marines was a way for the Crown to show special approval of a captain too junior for promotion to flag rank, and very few officers ever received the honor. It wouldn't change her actual authority in any way, but she would receive a colonel's salary in addition to her regular pay, and the appointment was an unequivocal indication of royal favor.
Another loaner from Hornblower, who was named a Colonel so he could actually give orders to large groups of marines on shore or not directly tied to his command. Here it's more of a 'well done' since she was already knighted andmade a Countess. Oh well, a second source of income is always welcome, it's not like the next chapter will completely invalidate that part...

Soft music from real, live musicians drifted through the dim, intimately lit restaurant on the delicious smells of a hundred worlds' cuisine. Cosmo's, the most exclusive night spot in the city of Landing, boasted that no one had ever ordered a dish its kitchen couldn't supply. That was no small claim, given the stupendous volume of shipping (and the passengers who went with it) which passed through the central terminus of the Manticore Wormhole Junction, but Honor could believe it.
Cosmos, one of the most expensive restaurants on Manticore.

Neufsteiler had represented Honor's financial interests for almost five T-years, and she was profoundly grateful she'd fallen into his hands. He had a few quirks that could be irritating, like his childlike delight in delaying the disclosure of good news to tease her, but he was scrupulously honest, and he had an uncanny investment sense. Honor's prize money from Basilisk Station had made her a millionaire; Neufsteiler's management had made her a multi-millionaire several times over. Which meant the least she could do was buy him an occasional supper, even at Cosmo's prices, and put up with his version of a sense of humor.

-snip-

"You're joking!" she gasped, but Neufsteiler shook his head with a broad smile.

"I most assuredly am not, Dame Honor. The first quarterly income from your estates on Grayson came in just about the time the prize court made its official award on those dreadnoughts you and Admiral Danislav captured in Hancock. As of—" he glanced at his chrono "—six hours ago, your net worth was exactly what it says on that report."

Honor stared at him in disbelief, almost numb, then slid the report to Tankersley. He glanced at the bottom line and pursed his lips silently.

"I wouldn't exactly say the major merchant cartels have to start worrying about you," he said after a moment, "but I've got some bottom land on Gryphon I'd like to show you."

Honor smiled at him, but the reaction was almost automatic, and shock still rippled through her. She came of yeoman stock. Her parents were undeniably well off, thanks to the performance of their medical partnership, but the majority of yeoman families were land-rich and money-poor, especially on Sphinx. It had been hard enough for her to accept that her prize money from Basilisk had made her a millionaire, but this—!

"You're sure there's not some mistake, Willard?" she asked hesitantly.

"Dame Honor," he said patiently, "a dreadnought is valued at somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty-two billion dollars, and the prize court awards three percent of the value of a surrendered enemy ship to the task force which captured it, assuming the Navy buys the prize into service. Of that total, the flag captains of said task force split twelve percent among themselves, and there were only four flag captains in Hancock at the time Admiral Chin surrendered. The Admiralty survey judged two of her five surviving dreadnoughts too badly damaged for repair, but the Navy bought the other three in. Now, three percent of ninety-six billion dollars is two-point-eight-eight billion, and twelve percent of that is three hundred forty-five million, plus change. Which means, dear lady, that your share comes to a paltry eighty-six million four hundred thousand dollars—exclusive of the lighter vessels surrendered with them. Of course, they only added another six million to your total award, so I suppose we don't have to worry about them. Believe me, those figures are correct. In fact, if you look at page three, you'll see that the most junior enlisted person serving under you will receive almost fifty thousand dollars."

Honor hardly even heard the last remark. She'd known she was bound to receive a hefty award, but she'd never imagined one this hefty. Why, it almost quadrupled her total net worth! The thought of that much money was frightening, and especially since prize money was untaxable. She got to keep every penny!
Another thing bothering people is by this point in the books, Honor is very wealthy. Of course, all the prize money from the first book gave her a decent nest egg, which she mostly turned over to a smart and trusted investor. And now she sort of has two separate fiefs, Manticore and Grayson, including a major city. And as Neufstiler points out, being one of a few flag captains gave her a bigger share of the prize money for Admiral Chin's captured dreadnoughts, and everyone who was there got wound up pretty well off, while she wound up +92 million. Which implies she already had in excess of $30 million.

Oh, and it seems prize money is tax-free.

The passage was deserted, as it usually was in officer's country, but Honor noted the way Henke's eyes flitted about. Nike's entire wardroom had joined Honor in hosting a congratulatory dinner the night before, yet it was traditional for a ship's senior officers to "accidentally" bump into a departing exec and wish her well in her new post, as well, especially when she was leaving to assume command of a ship of her own.

Only there wasn't a sign of them today, and a shadow darkened Henke's eyes. She looked as if she were about to speak, then shrugged and stepped into the lift. Honor punched their destination code and stood beside her, engaging in inconsequential conversation. She kept her voice light, jollying Henke out of her disappointment, and actually got her friend to laugh as the two of them watched the location display flicker. The lift moved swiftly and silently, but the trip took an unusually long time, for they were headed for Boat Bay Three. Of all Nike's boat bays, Three was least conveniently placed in relation to the captain's quarters, but unrepaired battle damage meant both forward docking facilities were still unserviceable.
It's tradition for the senior officers/department heads to 'bump into' a departing XO to wish them well. A tradition defied here because they assembled most of the crew in the Boat Bay to see her off. Oh, it's come up a couple of times but I haven't noted it before, the airlock and 'jet-way' are always set up in a small-craft bay, presumably for the convenience and safety of having just a couple of compartments that might open to space. Here it seems all three of Nike's bays could be used to access the station save for battle damage.

"Idiots!" White Haven grunted. He shoved himself up out of his chair and took a quick, frustrated turn around Webster's dining cabin. "This is a classic situation. The Havenite government's been a disaster in waiting for decades, but this new Committee of Public Safety is a whole 'nother animal. I don't care what their propaganda says, they're no more reformers than the Conservative Association is, and they're ruthless as hell. Your own sources report they've already shot over a dozen admirals! If we don't smash them before they finish consolidating, we're going to be up against something ten times as dangerous as Harris and his stooges ever were."

"At least they may shoot enough of their commanders to give us an edge." William sounded like a man trying to convince himself the cloud really had a silver lining, and his brother snorted harshly.

"You never did read your Napoleon, did you, Willie?" Alexander shook his head, and White Haven grinned crookedly. "When Napoleon built the army that conquered most of Europe, he did it by turning lieutenants, sergeants—even corporals!—into colonels and generals. His troops used to say there was a field marshal's baton in every knapsack, that anyone could rise to the heights once the old regime was out of the way. Well, the Legislaturalists are gone now. Sure, the new regime's costing itself a lot of experience by killing off the old guard, but it's also offering non-Legislaturalists their first real chance at the top. Damn it, all we need is a Peep officer corps with a genuine stake in the system and the chance to rise on merit!"

"And that doesn't even consider the other new motivating factor," Webster threw in. William looked at him, and the admiral shrugged. "Come back with your shield or on it," he said. "Anyone who disappoints the new regime will go the same way Parnell went." An expression of genuine regret crossed his features, and he sighed. "The man was an enemy, and I hated the system he represented, but damn it all, he deserved better than that."
On the one hand, shooting all the senior officers means they lose experience. On the other, for the first time in a generation anyone can make flag rank, if they're hard-working and loyal enough.

"and North Hollow is pulling out all the stops. Unless I miss my guess, he's going to talk High Ridge into making the Conservatives' continued support for the Opposition contingent on the outcome of the trial, and that'll bring the Liberals and Progressives in on it, too. They smell blood, maybe even the chance to bring the Duke's Government down despite the Crown's support. They won't pass up the chance, and if getting his son off is the price tag—" He broke off with an eloquent shrug.
How Young Senior got even the Liberals and Progressives on his son's side. Going after the Centrist Government and offering them a seat in the new coalition.

"We don't know yet. At the moment, he's demanding we drop the charges in their entirety, but he has to know that's not going to happen. Her Majesty's made her own position clear and, Opposition or not, that's going to carry weight in a lot of minds. He's got Janacek in his corner as an advisor, though, and that worries us. Janacek may be a hide-bound, reactionary old bastard, but he knows the Navy side of the street as well as North Hollow knows the political one. At the moment, I think they're just trying to stake out an initial bargaining position, but between them, they're going to come up with something more effective. You can count on that."
For now they're pushing for outright dismissal of all charges, Pavel never even sees the inside of a courtroom. Willie thinks they're setting up an advanced position they can later 'compromise' by accepting only what they're really after.

She grimaced and ran harried fingers through her hair. The Admiralty had released the official after-action report on the Battle of Hancock two days after her dinner at Cosmo's, and she'd been forced within hours to order George Monet, her com officer, to refuse all nonofficial com access as the only way to stem the tidal wave of interview requests. It was even worse than after Basilisk or Yeltsin's Star, but not even Basilisk had included such nasty political overtones as this one, she thought despairingly. News of Pavel Young's court-martial had been released at the same Admiralty press conference, and the scent of blood was in the water.

Honor didn't like newsies. She disliked the way they over-simplified and trivialized the news almost as much as she detested their sensationalism and the way they trampled on the most rudimentary concepts of courtesy to pursue a story. She was willing to concede they had a function, and the teeth Parliament had given the Privacy Act of 14 A.L. normally prevented the brutal intrusiveness societies like the Solarian League tolerated, but any vestige of restraint had vanished on this one. Young's court-martial had provoked a feeding frenzy that suggested most editors were willing to risk the near certain (and expensive) loss of an invasion of privacy suit as long as their reporters got the story.

The media were after all of Nike's people, rabid for any shred of a firsthand account to flesh out the Admiralty's bare-bones report of the battle and the incidents leading to what promised to be a spectacular trial, but they'd gone after Nike's captain with special fervor . . . and not just about events in Hancock. Every detail of Honor's past—and Young's, she conceded—had been exhumed and plastered across every newsfax in the Kingdom, along with equally detailed, usually inaccurate, and almost invariably tasteless analyses and speculation. Every documented incident, every rumor, of the hostility between her and Young had become front-page news. Some of the services had even gone clear back to her childhood on Sphinx, and one particularly obnoxious team of reporters had cornered her parents in their surgical offices. They'd gotten in by claiming to be patients, then badgered both Doctors Harrington—and any other staff member who came in range—with personal questions until her mother lost her temper, screened the police, and had them charged with privacy violation. Honor had been livid when she heard about it, nor had she cooled off much since, and her own situation was even worse. Half the capital planet's news corps had infested Hephaestus, lurking like Sphinx spider lizards in passages and spacedock galleries on the off chance that she might set toe aboard the space station.
I'm not sure what Weber's problem with the press is, but I've never seen a reporter or journalist portrayed positively in anything he wrote.

"It's getting uglier," he warned. "North Hollow's publicity shills and a certain, loathsome subspecies of parliamentary staffers are getting into it—always as 'anonymous' sources, of course. They're trying to present the whole thing as some sort of personal vendetta on your part, coupled with the strong implication that Cromarty is pushing it to punish the Conservative Association for breaking with the Government over the declaration. Which, of course, the Conservatives did only as a matter of high moral principle."

"Wonderful." Honor closed her eyes and inhaled deeply. "I don't suppose they're mentioning anything Young ever did to me?"

"Some of the services are," Tankersley conceded, "but Young's partisans certainly aren't. You know Crichton, the Palmer Foundation's pet military analyst?" Honor nodded with a grimace, and Tankersley shrugged. "He's claiming Young's the real victim because the Admiralty has been trying to get him ever since Basilisk. According to his version—for which, I trust, he charged High Ridge and North Hollow an arm and a leg each—poor old Young, having been saddled with a defective ship in Basilisk, was turned into a scapegoat by the Admiralty and the Cromarty Government when he was forced to withdraw for repairs. It seems Young didn't do it to get you, nor did his earlier inefficiency on the station contribute in any way to the problems you faced. What really created the dangerous situation in Basilisk was the Admiralty's culpable negligence in assigning only two ships, one on the verge of imminent breakdown, to the picket in the first place."

"Oh, for God's sake!" Honor snapped. "Warlock didn't have any real problems—and downsizing the picket was Janacek's policy!"
Revisionist history, don't you love it?

"Javelins?" Honor's eyes lit with pure delight, and Tankersley grinned at her. The Javelin advanced trainer was a deliberate technical anachronism: an old-fashioned, variable geometry airfoil jet aircraft with no counter-grav but incredible power. It was small, sleek, and fast, and the Academy instructors had always insisted flying it was even better than sex. Honor couldn't quite agree with that now that she'd met Paul . . . but she was willing to admit it was the next best thing.
Yeah, Saganami island keep jet fighters, and the day before the court-martial Tankersley and Honor take two out to play 'gun-camera tag.'

The RMN maintained a vast marina of small sailing craft, and every midshipman, regardless of eventual specialization track, was required to qualify not only in sailplanes and old-fashioned airfoil aircraft but in even more old-fashioned seamanship as well as counter-grav. Critics might sniff at the requirement as a throwback to the bad old days when starship captains navigated the grav waves of hyper space as much by instinct as instruments, but the Academy clung to the tradition, and Honor, like most of the Navy's better shiphandlers, firmly believed it had taught her things and given her a confidence no simulator could—which didn't even consider how much fun it was!
I admit, I'm at a bit of a loss why you'd feel the need for every naval officer to rate on aircraft and sailboats, but eh. It's a lot less strange than Starfleet teaching people Latin before sending them to the far corners of the galaxy.

It would have helped if she'd been permitted to speak to any of the dozen or so other officers present. Most were acquaintances and many were friends, but the Admiralty yeoman seated beside the door was there to do more than see to their needs and comfort. Witnesses in a Royal Navy court-martial were forbidden to discuss their testimony before they gave it. By tradition, that meant no conversation at all was permitted as they waited to be called, and the yeoman's presence was a reminder of their responsibilities.
No conversing among the witnesses.

Captain Lord Pavel Young marched into the huge, still chamber with his eyes fixed straight ahead. The Judge Advocate General's Corps captain appointed as defense counsel stood waiting for him as his escorting Marines marched him across the scarlet carpet. One entire wall of the enormous room consisted of floor-to-ceiling windows. Rich wood paneling shone in the light streaming in, and Young tried not to blink against the brilliance lest the involuntary reaction be misconstrued. He relaxed ever so slightly in relief as he reached his own chair, but the turn away from the sunlight also faced him toward the long table with its six blotters and carafes of ice water. He felt the silent, watching audience behind him, knew his father and brothers were there, yet he couldn't tear his eyes from the table. A gleaming sword—his sword, the mandatory sword of mess dress uniform—lay before the central blotter, the symbol of his honor and authority as a Queen's officer delivered to the court for judgment.
Is the sword thing a British tradition? I couldn't find anything, but it feels kosher.

"Captain Lord Young, you stand accused before this court upon the following specifications.

"Specification the first, that on or about Wednesday, the twenty-third day of Sixth Month, Year Two Hundred and Eighty Two After Landing, while acting as commodore of Heavy Cruiser Squadron Seventeen in the System of Hancock consequent to Commodore Stephen Van Slyke's death in action, you did violate the Twenty-Third Article of War, in that you did quit the formation of Task Group Hancock-Zero-Zero-One, thereby breaking off action against the enemy, without orders so to do.

"Specification the second, that you did subsequently violate the Twenty-Sixth Article of War, in that you did disobey a direct order from the flagship of Task Group Hancock-Zero-Zero-One by disregarding repeated instructions to return to formation.

"Specification the third, that in direct consequence of the actions alleged in the first and second specifications of these charges, the integrity of the missile defense net of Task Force Hancock-Zero-Zero-One was compromised by the withdrawal of the units under your command, thereby exposing other units of the task group to concentrated enemy fire, which, in consequence of your actions, inflicted severe damage and heavy loss of life upon them.

"Specification the fourth, that the actions and consequences alleged in the first, second, and third specifications of these charges constitute and did result from personal cowardice.

"Specification the fifth, that the actions alleged in the first and second specifications of these charges constitute desertion in the face of the enemy as defined under the Fourteenth, Fifteenth, and Nineteenth Articles of War, and, as such, an act of high treason under the Articles of War and the Constitution of this Star Kingdom."
The charges; breaking formation without proper authorization, ignoring a direct order from the flagship to resume formation, responsibility for damage caused by quitting the formation, desertion, and cowardice in the face of the enemy.

"This court wishes to remind all present that the accused enjoys the presumption of innocence until and unless the validity of the charges and specifications are demonstrated to the complete satisfaction of a majority of the court. This is not, however, a civil court, and the members of the court are not judges in the civilian sense of the word. We, as the prosecutor and defense counsel, are charged with an active role in determining the facts of the charges and specifications set forth against the accused. Further, we are charged with considering the impact of those facts not merely upon the accused but upon the discipline and fighting capability of the Queen's Navy. Should a member of the court address a question or questions to any witness, it will reflect not a violation of judicial impartiality, but the responsibility of the court to discover and weigh all facets of the truth.

"In addition, the court is aware of the intense public interest which has focused upon this case. It is, in fact, that interest which has led the Admiralty to open these proceedings to the public and allow the presence of the media. The court, however, admonishes the media that this is a court of military law, and that the media's representatives are present upon sufferance and not of right. This court will tolerate no abuse of its patience nor any violation of the Defense of the Realm Act, and the media is so warned."
Format of a court martial, the press are allowed in this time but only on condition that they behave themselves.

"My Lord, the prosecution calls as its first witness Captain the Countess Dame Honor Harrington."
Interesting way to end the chapter. Alright, let's see how Honor deals with being on the stand, no doubt it will be interesting to see the perspective the judges and lawyers add to her actions and- what's that? We never see her testimony? Cut to the panel's deliberations? What the hell?

Of them all, he knew Kuzak best. For reasons of her own, the red-haired admiral had nourished a reputation as a strict, humorless disciplinarian almost from Academy graduation, and her green eyes and severe features could produce a poker face that went well with that perception. Except, he thought fondly, for those who knew the woman behind them. He and Theodosia had been friends literally since childhood—and once, briefly, they'd been much more. It had been a difficult time in White Haven's life, a time when he'd been forced to accept at last that his wife's injuries were real and permanent. That no medical miracle would let her leave her life support chair ever again. The accident hadn't been his fault, but he hadn't been there to prevent it, either, and he'd been wracked by guilt and almost unbearable grief as he watched her turn into a frail and fragile ghost of the beautiful woman he'd loved. The woman he still loved, and with whom he could never again have a physical relationship. Theodosia had understood he could no longer be strong. That he'd needed comfort—no more and no less—from someone whose integrity he knew he would never have cause to question . . . and he hadn't.

Rear Admiral of the Green Rexford Jurgens, at Kuzak's left, was a very different proposition. He was a blocklike, chunky man with sandy hair and a permanently belligerent expression, but his belligerence was more pronounced than usual today, and his light brown eyes were like shutters. He didn't look like a man facing a decision; he looked like one who'd already decided and prepared himself to defend his position against all comers.

Admiral of the Red Hemphill, next in seniority after Kuzak, was harder to read, even after all the years she and White Haven had spent as adversaries. As fair-skinned as Kuzak, Sonja Hemphill was a handsome woman, golden haired and with striking blue-green eyes, but where Theodosia's face often hid the real Theodosia, the determination that was Hemphill's driving force tightened her features and made her look almost as opinionated as she actually was. Though twenty years younger and far junior to White Haven, she'd made her name early in the R&D community, and she was a leading advocate of the jeune ecole's material-based "new tactical thinking," whereas the earl was the acknowledged leader of the historical school. He respected both her personal courage and her abilities in her own areas of competence, yet they'd never liked one another, and their professional differences only made their natural antipathy worse. Their clashes had assumed mythic stature over the last fifteen T-years, and there were other worries this time: she was also a cousin of Sir Edward Janacek and heir to the Barony of Low Delhi, and, like Jurgens, her spiritual home was the Conservative Association.

The third female member of the board, Commodore Lemaitre, was a complete contrast to Theodosia Kuzak, and not just physically. She was dark haired, dark skinned, and whippet thin, with intense brown eyes, and she radiated taut, barely leashed energy. Another member of the jeune ecole, Lemaitre was nonetheless an excellent tactical theorist, though she'd never commanded in action. She was also, despite an abrasive personality, a superior administrator. White Haven suspected her support for the jeune ecole stemmed less from a rigorous analysis of its merits than from her family ties to the antimilitary Liberal Party and its fundamental distrust for all things traditional, yet sheer ability had her on the fast track for a rear admiral's star. Unfortunately, she knew it did, and she lacked the one thing which made Hemphill endurable. Sonja might be a hard driver and more than a bit ruthless, and she was oppressively confident of the merits of her own pet technical and tactical theories, yet she was willing to admit she herself was fallible. Lemaitre wasn't. She was totally convinced not only of her own rectitude but of the superiority of any ideology she chose to honor with her support, and he'd seen her nostrils flare when Captain Harrington took the stand.

Captain The Honorable Thor Simengaard was the board's junior officer, and also its largest. His family had migrated to Sphinx two T-centuries before, but they'd come from Quelhollow, an ancient world, settled before Old Earth's Final War and the galaxy-wide ban on the practice of genetically engineering colonists for their new homes. The massively thewed Simengaard stood just over two meters tall, with hair so intensely black it hurt the eye. His dark coppery complexion made his startling, topaz eyes appear even brighter, and his mild, homely features masked a stubbornness more than equal to Jurgens' more obvious belligerence.

It would not, White Haven thought, be a pleasant task to preside over these personalities.
The judges.

"The specifications allege that Lord Young broke off the action on his own initiative and then refused orders to return to formation. Whether or not that's an accurate description of his actions, and whether they showed good judgment or bad, doesn't affect the fact that he had every legal right to do so. Admiral Sarnow had been wounded and incapacitated, and all other flag officers of the task group had already died in action. As the acting commander of a heavy cruiser squadron, it was his responsibility to take the actions he felt were called for in the absence of orders to the contrary from competent authority. He may well have shown execrable judgment, but the judgment was legally his to make, and any other interpretation is nonsense."

"That's insane!" Thor Simengaard's deep, rumbling voice was a snarl of blunt disgust. "Tactical command hadn't been shifted from Nike—and he certainly had no way to know Sarnow had been wounded!"

"We're not discussing what Lord Young did or did not know." Jurgens glared at the captain, but, despite his junior status, Simengaard didn't even flinch. "We're discussing the facts of the case," the rear admiral went on, "and the facts are that Lord Young was senior to the woman who instructed him to return to formation. As such, he was not bound to obey her orders, and she, in fact, had no authority to give them."
The major point of the defense (as presented by an 'impartial' judge) is that Young had every right to quit formation with the command confusion he couldn't have known about at the time, and that Honor had no right to order him back, though again Young had no way of knowing this at the time.

"I anticipated that this point might arise," he continued once he had their undivided attention, "and I asked the Judge Advocate General to address it for me." He laid a memo pad on the table and keyed it alive, but his eyes held Jurgens' rather than looking down at the small screen.

"This particular situation has never before arisen, but according to Vice Admiral Cordwainer, the precedents are clear. An officer's actions must be judged by two standards. First, by the situation which actually obtained at the moment of those actions; second, by the situation he believed obtained, based on the information available to him. Admiral Jurgens is correct that, in fact, Admiral Sarnow had been incapacitated. By the same token, however, Lord Young was under the impression that the admiral remained in command, and that Lady Harrington, as Admiral Sarnow's flag captain, was fully empowered to give him orders. As such, his refusal to obey her repeated order to return to formation constituted defiance of his legal, acting superior to the best of his own, personal knowledge. That, according to Admiral Cordwainer, is the reason the specifications were written as they were. He stands charged not with disobeying Captain Harrington, his junior, but with disobeying orders from the flagship which, so far as he then knew, had every legal right to issue those orders."

"Gobbledygook!" Jurgens snorted. "Lawyer's double-talk! What he knew or didn't know can't change the facts!"

"What he knew or didn't know are the facts of the matter, Sir," Simengaard returned sharply.

"Don't be absurd, Captain!" Lemaitre spoke up for the first time, dark eyes flashing. "You can't convict an officer who acted within the law simply because some other officer withheld critical information from him. It was Captain Harrington's duty to transfer command when Admiral Sarnow was wounded. The fact that she didn't do so makes her culpable, not him!"
Ham's reasonable rebuttal shot down with sheer stubborn belligerence on Jurgens' part, though Lemaitre's phrasing actually makes sort of a valid point. Though in this case Young was still disobeying what he believed to be legitimate orders out of sheer personal cowardice.

"Allow me to point out, ladies and gentlemen, that Lady Harrington's actions have been approved at the highest level. She is not, has not been, and will not be charged with any wrongdoing."

His deep, measured voice was as hard as his expression, and Lemaitre clenched her jaw and looked away. Jurgens snorted derisively, but Sonja Hemphill sat in masklike silence.

"Having said that, this court undoubtedly has the right to consider any bearing her actions may have had on Lord Young's. Since this set of circumstances has never before arisen, we, like many a court-martial, are faced with the need to set precedent. The Judge Advocate General's brief makes it clear that an officer's understanding of the situation is an acceptable basis for determining the probity of his actions. Admittedly, it's a meterstick which is usually appealed to by the defense, not the prosecution, but that doesn't mean it applies in only one direction. Whether or not it's applied in this case, and how, lies in our hands. From that perspective—and that perspective only—Lady Harrington's actions and how Lord Young understood them are germane. This board will restrict itself to considering them in that light."
Yay, White Haven! You keep sticking your extremities in that dyke, trying to keep this conversation civil and on-topic.

"We'll have no personal exchanges, ladies and gentlemen. This is a court-martial, not a shouting match. Formality may be relaxed to allow free discussion and decisions without respect to rank, but the rudiments of military courtesy will be observed. Please don't make me repeat that warning."
Formality relaxed, which is why a captain feels he can shout down an admiral. Of course, the theory is that no one shouts down anyone because they're all gentlemen and ladies.

"Dropped." He didn't try to hide his triumph. "As you yourself have pointed out, Admiral, the political situation is critical. A decision to retry Lord Young would only make that crisis worse. As president, you have the right to make whatever recommendation you like, but the decision will be made at a higher level, and I doubt very much that Duke Cromarty will thank the Admiralty for pursuing the matter. Under the circumstances, the most constructive thing you can do is advise against a retrial. Such a recommendation from within the Service would give the Government an out, a graceful way for it to drop the charges so that Duke Cromarty—and the Opposition—can put this all behind them and get on with the war."
The Opposition's real position. They can declare a hung verdict and recommend against a retrial, letting Young go scot-free with only a slightly more tarnished reputation. At this point Kuzak makes an impassioned speech about precedent and will they really let Young walk and tell all the aristos they can get away with anything, moving Hemphill to finally step forward and offer a compromise.
"Any plan which requires the direct intervention of any deity to work can be assumed to be a very poor one."- Newbiespud
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Ahriman238
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Ahriman238 »

Young hardly even saw her. His eyes were locked straight ahead, as if keeping them there could delay the inevitable moment just a few more seconds. But then he reached the defense table and turned toward the judges, and he could delay no longer. His gaze dropped to the sword, and his heart stopped.

The point was toward him. The point was toward him, and a sudden wave of terror engulfed him as that single, horrible fact penetrated.

He felt himself trembling and tried to stop it, but he couldn't. Nor could he keep his head from turning, stop himself from looking over his shoulder. His eyes met his father's, raw with panic and desperate appeal, and his father's expression of frightened, furious impotence drove a dagger of terror into his belly. He wrenched his gaze away, and not even the hatred as he saw his one-time executive officer sitting beside Harrington—sitting there holding the bitch's hand!—could penetrate the ice about his soul.
The sword is laid across the table when the trial commences, for the verdict it is pointed at the accused. Hilt-first for acquittal, point-first for 'you ass is grass.' Also Pavel notices Honor's new relationship status with fun consequences later.

"Very well. On the first specification of the charges, that you did violate the Twenty-Third Article of War, this court, by vote of four to two, finds you guilty as charged." Someone groaned behind him—his father, he thought—and his own hands clenched at his sides as White Haven's voice rolled out, deep and dispassionate as doomsday.

"On the second specification of the charges, that you did violate the Twenty-Sixth Article of War, this court, by vote of four to two, finds you guilty as charged.

"On the third specification of the charges, that your actions did expose other units of the task group to severe damage and casualties, this court, by vote of four to two, finds you guilty as charged.

"On the fourth specification of the charges," even through his sick despair, Young heard White Haven's voice shift, "that your actions constituted and did result from personal cowardice, this court, having voted three for conviction and three for acquittal, has been unable to reach a verdict."

There was a louder, more incredulous chorus of gasps, and Young twitched in disbelief. Unable to reach a verdict? That—

"On the fifth specification," White Haven continued in that same, flat tone, "that your actions did constitute desertion in the face of the enemy as defined by the Fourteenth, Fifteenth, and Nineteenth Articles of War, this court, having voted three for conviction and three for acquittal, has been unable to reach a verdict."

Pavel Young felt the stir of shocked hope. A hung verdict. They'd reached a hung verdict on the only two charges that really counted, the only ones that could send him before a firing squad! Electricity sparkled up and down his nerves, and the sound of his own breathing was harsh in his nostrils.

"Inability to reach a verdict," White Haven said flatly, "does not constitute an acquittal, but the accused enjoys the presumption of innocence. Accordingly, the court has no option at this time but to dismiss the fourth and fifth specifications of the charges against you."

-snip-

" . . . the duty of this court," White Haven was saying, "to decide the penalty which attaches to the crimes of which you stand convicted, and it is the view of a two-thirds majority of the court, irrespective of the votes on specifications four and five of the charges against you, that your conduct in course of the Battle of Hancock demonstrates a culpable negligence and lack of character which exceed any acceptable in an officer of Her Majesty's Navy. This court therefore rules, by vote of four to two, that the accused, Captain Lord Pavel Young, shall be stripped of all rank, rights, privileges, and prerogatives as a captain in the Royal Manticoran Navy and dishonorably dismissed the Service as unfit to wear the Queen's uniform, judgment to be executed within three days of this hour.

"This court stands adjourned."
Cowardice and desertion, blatantly guilty, but politics win him a dishonorable discharge. Quite the coup considering the heap of evidence against him. But it seems not everyone is pleased with the verdict.

He swayed in an ashen-faced horror immeasurably more agonizing for his momentary belief that he'd escaped destruction. The dead, stunned silence of the whipsawed spectators was pregnant with the first as yet unspoken whispers of his shame, and his soul writhed in anticipation of the rising background murmur. And then he jerked as a shrill, electronic wail sounded behind him.

He couldn't place it. For a heartbeat, two—three—he heard it with no recognition at all, and then he wheeled in sudden understanding.

The medical alert screamed, tearing at his nerves, and he stared, unable to move, as the Earl of North Hollow slumped flaccidly forward in his wailing life-support chair.
At the news, Pavel Young's father suffers a fatal stroke.

"This is an historical moment. How many men, do you suppose, get cashiered and inherit an earldom in three minutes flat?"
Not many, And poor naïve Honor doesn't want to hear anything more about Young. Funny that, she has wounded and humiliated but not killed, an enemy she knows to petty and vindictive. Said enemy has left the service, but come into serious wealth and political power, yet *snicker* she seriously thinks anything is ended by this trial.

"Whatever the vote, it was impaneled—under an officer who's both the Chancellor of the Exchequer's brother and one of Captain Harrington's strongest supporters—solely to embarrass the Opposition. There were numerous irregularities in Hancock, and not simply on Lord Young—Earl North Hollow's—part. Indeed, some of us are convinced the wrong captain was tried in the first place, and if you think for one moment the Opposition will take this insult lying down, you're sadly mistaken. Duke Cromarty and his Government can play party politics in a time of crisis if they wish, but be assured that the Opposition will call them to account for it!"

"Are you suggesting the court's membership was rigged, Sir Edward?" Minerva Prince demanded. Janacek started to reply, then closed his mouth tightly and cocked an eyebrow in knowing fashion.

"Poppycock!" O'Higgins snorted. "Sir Edward can suggest what he likes, but he knows as well as I that human interference in the selection of officers for courts-martial is impossible! The Admiralty computers select them at random, and the defense is entitled to examine the electronic records of the entire selection process. If there were any sort of chicanery, why didn't Young or his counsel move to strike the board's suspect members then?"

"Well, Sir Edward?" DuCain asked, and Janacek shrugged irritably.

"Of course it wasn't 'rigged,' " he admitted. "But the decision to proceed with the trial at all under such polarized, prejudicial circumstances reflects both utter disregard for reasoned judicial process and the worst sort of reckless, petty party politics. It can only be seen as—"

"Why is it, Sir Edward," O'Higgins interrupted again, "that anything the Government does is 'petty party politics,' but anything the Opposition tries to pull is high-minded statesmanship? Wake up and smell the coffee before plain old arrogance and stupidity cost you the twelve Commons seats you still hold!"
Talking heads, in this case O'Higgins (Centrist, former First Lord of the Admiralty) ad Janacek (Conservative, also former First Lord) debating the Young trial.



Chandler's tone was almost gloating, and Honor's smile matched it. Graser Six had suffered serious collateral damage from the hit that took out Graser Eight, but Hephaestus' surveyors had argued that it could be repaired "good as new." Repair would have the virtue of saving something like fourteen million dollars—if they were right; if they were wrong, HMS Nike might just find her starboard broadside ten percent short the next time she went into action. Ivan Ravicz, Honor's senior engineer, was adamant on the need for replacement, and she and Chandler had gone to the mat with Vice Admiral Cheviot in his support. It hadn't been easy, but Honor's arguments had been bolstered by Paul's behind the scenes coaching, and it sounded as if they'd paid off.
$14 million+ for a BC graser and again we see them arguing with the yard over what repairs are really necessary.

"According to Eve, we're getting replacement on Graser Six after all."

"You are? Outstanding! May I assume my own humble contributions to your case had something to do with it?"

"I wouldn't be surprised, but the important thing is that Admiral Cheviot finally told those useless bean counters in Survey to get their fingers out and listen to the real Navy for a change."

"Now, now, Honor! You shouldn't talk that way about Survey. After all, I used to do survey work, and you bluff, simpleminded spacedogs simply aren't equipped to understand the pressures they face. Of course, my recommendations were always unencumbered by anything so unworthy as the impact of cost considerations on efficiency ratings, but few individuals possess my resolute and fearless character. Most survey specialists toss and turn all night, bathed in cold sweat, clutching empty bottles of cheap rotgut in their palsied hands as futile protection against nightmares about their next cost accountability inspection." He shook his head sadly. "The last thing they need is some captain with an ironclad case for spending money on his ship."
Just amused me.

Honor sat straighter and her eyes lit. After its losses in Hancock, she'd been half afraid BCS Five would be disbanded. Now she knew it wouldn't be, and assignment to TF Four would put it under White Haven's direct command.
Sarnow's BC squadron is being assigned to Home Fleet, under White Haven.

Honor obeyed the invitation, and memories of their last meeting replayed in her mind. That had been after the Second Battle of Yeltsin, and she had to suppress a smile as she remembered his lecture on the virtue of restraining her temper. Not that she hadn't deserved it, but since then she'd heard a few tales about times when he'd lost his temper which gave a certain "do as I say, not as I do" air to his admonition. On the other hand, one of the more famous episodes had singed every hair on then-Admiral Sir Edward Janacek's head, and White Haven had spent four T-years dirt-side on half-pay when Janacek became First Lord, so perhaps his warning had come from hard experience.
Probably hard experience.

"The situation in the People's Republic is getting worse, not better," he said quietly. "We're picking up reports of some sort of purge, complete with mass executions, against the Legislaturalists who survived the Harris Assassination. To date, we have confirmation that they've shot over a hundred captains and flag officers, as well, and at least twice that many other senior officers have simply disappeared. Some of their middle-level commanders are actually resorting to armed resistance, no doubt in self-preservation, and at least eight star systems have declared their independence from the central government. That hasn't kept this Committee of Public Safety's chairman, a Mr. Pierre, from securing control of most of the major fleet bases, though, and there are disturbing indications that some sort of revolutionary fervor is sweeping the Haven System itself. The Dolists are no longer simply sitting around passively collecting their Basic Living Stipends. Pierre's managed to get them genuinely involved for the first time in living memory, and several other systems, mostly among those the Peeps have controlled longest and brought most thoroughly under central control, are experiencing the same thing."

The admiral paused for a moment, watching her expression, and nodded as her lips tightened.

"Exactly, Dame Honor. Our analysts are hopelessly divided on what it all means, of course. The coup—or whatever it was—completely blindsided us, and the various think tanks are all scrambling to build new models. In the meantime, no one knows what's really going on, or where it's likely to lead. Some of us, including myself and Duke Cromarty, believe we're seeing the evolution of something far more dangerous than the old regime ever was. Pierre's shown excellent tactical sense by concentrating on the major bases and most heavily populated systems first. If his committee, or junta, or whatever we want to call it, can secure its position there, which is exactly what it seems to be doing, it can always snap back up weaker, break-away systems later, especially if it brings genuine popular support to bear on the problem."
More of the situation in Haven. Purges, a couple of counterrevolutions, but Pierre holds the core worlds and most of the important infrastructure.

"I don't think that's going to be a very viable option, Captain. And I remind you that membership in the House of Lords will require you to make far fewer decisions than your position as Steadholder Harrington will."

"I realize that, My Lord." Honor returned his gaze with serious eyes. "As a matter of fact, if I'd realized all the office of steadholder entails, Protector Benjamin would never have talked me into accepting it. But he did. That means I'm stuck with it, and I can only say that I'm more grateful than I could ever express that he found such an outstanding regent for me. And at least he understood from the outset that I could never remain on Grayson full-time—that I'm going to have to delegate my authority there."

White Haven allowed his smile to become an equally faint frown. "Should I understand, then, that you intend to be no more than a figurehead? That you're going to delegate your Grayson responsibilities to someone more qualified than yourself?"

"No, Sir, you should not." Honor felt herself flush at the carefully metered sting in his voice. "I accepted the position, and whether I knew what I was doing at the time or not is beside the point. It's mine now, and any officer who's ever commanded a Queen's ship understands responsibilities. I have no choice but to learn my duties to Grayson and discharge them to the very best of my ability, and I intend to do so." White Haven's eyes softened, and she went on in a quieter voice. "But the prospect frightens me, Sir, and I'd rather not assume still more responsibility and make still more decisions in our own House of Lords at the same time."

"I'd say that indicates you'd vote a great deal more responsibly than many of our present peers," White Haven said seriously, and her blush turned darker. The earl's title dated back to the Star Kingdom's founding, yet her own ennoblement meant that, technically, she was his equal. It made her feel uncomfortable, like a little girl dressing up as an adult woman, and she squirmed in her chair.
Honor's feeling about her responsibilities on Grayson, and her own status as a noble. Of course, they're really shipping her off to Grayson because the government is trying to get every vote they can beg, borrow, call in a favor, or make a deal with someone for to get the formal declaration of war and go on the offensive. Young is going to claim his seat in the Lords right away, and the government doesn't want the distraction of Honor doing the same thing at the same time. But that's all right, she hasn't been back to Grayson for a while and really does need to learn the ins and outs of being a great feudal lord lady.


So that's the trial at least out of the way. But we're only about a third through.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Crazedwraith »


The opinions of Manticore's diverse political life. The New Men don't really have a Bristih/US equivalent, but they're a small party founded on pragmatism and realpolitik, which means mostly mercenary selling of their bloc's votes for concessions and the sweet, sweet pork barrels. Though in fairness, if we hadn't seen Pierre state that they would have to keep up the expansion for decades, both the Liberal and Conservative views would seem possible.
Yeah another big problem with Weber. Because I feel these are legitimately possible and even reasonable points of view for politicians to take. But he just makes everyone holding them out to be idiots and cowards and so on. No shades of grey at all.

What if the XO is a screw-up? Do they always give the XO their own boat if the ships does something spectacular?
This is another loaner from Hornblower and was traditional in the real RN. It’s because Captain’s promotions are only by seniority and thus you can’t promote a Captain for a job well done so you promote the 1st Lieutenant.

As for them being a screw up in reality and HH, the number of Captains on the list, greatly out do the number of commands. So if they prove to be a screw-up you just don’t give them a command ever.

Another loaner from Hornblower, who was named a Colonel so he could actually give orders to large groups of marines on shore or not directly tied to his command. Here it's more of a 'well done' since she was already knighted andmade a Countess. Oh well, a second source of income is always welcome, it's not like the next chapter will completely invalidate that part...
Actually it was a sinecure for Hornblower as well. It’s part of the rewards given to him at the end of Flying Colours, to pander to his popularity with the mob and make the government more popular. (Thus giving Hornblower everything he’s wanted but still making him thoroughly unhappy with his lot)

I'm not sure what Weber's problem with the press is, but I've never seen a reporter or journalist portrayed positively in anything he wrote.
Yeah this really stood out to me as well. I mean yes, tabloids are stuff are bad. But there is such a thing as legit journalism.

Is the sword thing a British tradition? I couldn't find anything, but it feels kosher.
It tallies with Court Martials I’ve read in Hornblower and Master & Commander at least.

The major point of the defense (as presented by an 'impartial' judge) is that Young had every right to quit formation with the command confusion he couldn't have known about at the time, and that Honor had no right to order him back, though again Young had no way of knowing this at the time.
As with the journalist the treatment of the Admirals in the wrong is very black and white. They seem to me making their arguments hilariously badly on both sides. Because there is a lot of room for argument on the issue; whether Honor had authority or not to issue orders; if you can hold it against Young.

And I expected a lot more to made out of the fact that Young knew the plan ahead of time and given the RMN tradition of independence was in his right to issue orders to scatter.

It’s the bridge holograms that should really sink him on the cowardice charges.

As a random aside; should the court martial really have had an uneven number of people on it? Just to make a hung jury impossible?
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Ahriman238 »

Oh, and just keeping up with news, Weber announced two companion pieces to House of Steel. House of Lies, covering Haven's slide into militarism and fleet buildup, and House of Shadows, doing pretty much the same thing for the Solarian League/Mesan Alignment. Also, later this year Timothy Zahn will publish the first of a prequel series covering the origins of the RMN, before the discovery of the Junction, Manticore Ascendant.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Nephtys »

A prequelverse would probably be more interesting than the mechanical by-the-numbers books that are coming out now. A small RMN in a distant frontier, pirates and local powers that are gone by the 'modern' era. Almost like oh, say... a 1800s analogue for the 1800s analogue space adventures. :P

Now if only the universe could get a Harry Flashman...
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

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Ahriman238 wrote:An impressive list of people have said that Honor was in the right not to transfer command as per the regs.
I suspect the main reason is that Honor knew information that nobody else in the fleet had, because she had the only working FTL comm receiver in the squadron. If Commodore Banton had survived, I suspect that Honor failing to transfer command would have been viewed in a much less favorable light.
Breaking up the coalition, the framing of the scene makes it pretty clear this is about Young, though they likely would have broken away anyways because in these books only the Centrists get to have a clue how any aspect of foreign policy works.
Yep.

The problem is that Weber cut his teeth as a writer on pure war stories, where there is a military "us" and a military "them." "Our" side is good, "their" side is bad. The problem is that when he applies this to domestic politics, it results in "our" party always being right on important issues and making only minor mistakes. While "their" party, the designated-other, is virtually always wrong, even if it makes no logical sense for them to make such a stupid call in the first place.
The opinions of Manticore's diverse political life. The New Men don't really have a Bristih/US equivalent, but they're a small party founded on pragmatism and realpolitik, which means mostly mercenary selling of their bloc's votes for concessions and the sweet, sweet pork barrels. Though in fairness, if we hadn't seen Pierre state that they would have to keep up the expansion for decades, both the Liberal and Conservative views would seem possible.
Yes. Also, I think part of this is the impact of prolong showing itself. Most of the current Liberal and Conservative members in the Lords are probably in the range of 80-100 years old, and their formative years came at a time when Haven hadn't yet begun its expansionist conquests. A lot of them simply don't get how the realities have changed. In the Conservatives' case this takes the form of an arrogant refusal to take Haven seriously; in the Liberals' case this takes the form of wishing "why can't we be friends like we were in 1835 when I went to college?"
Show me one time the wise and noble lords bravely defied public pressure to do something foolish.
If it's happened, it happened prior to about 1840 PD. Of course, Manticore isn't the only place where people unthinkingly parrot grade-school civics arguments for why the system is the way it is, even when those arguments are badly out of touch with reality.

We in the US still talk about Congress being the one with the power to declare war when the president routinely sweeps us into shooting wars with only minimal or informal 'authorization of the use of force.' We talk about the structure of Congress balancing power between big states and small states, when small state/big state divides have been blatantly unimportant in American politics for decades, except insofar as SOME small states tend to be disproportionately rural.
The Manticoran media had reached a sort of gentleman's agreement with the Crown almost at the Kingdom's founding. In return for an official policy of public availability to the press and restraint in invoking the Official Secrets and Defense of the Realm Acts, the royal family's personal life was effectively off-limits, but there'd been something in the Landing Times about—
The press does not slander or pry into the private lives of the Royal Family.
Reminds me of Thailand?
What if the XO is a screw-up? Do they always give the XO their own boat if the ships does something spectacular?
'Customary' doesn't mean 'always happens.' But this is actually not a bad rule. The XO's competence has a lot to do with the success or failure of a ship in combat; if you serve as executive on a ship that subsequently fights well, it implicitly proves that you are fit for command, unless there is strong evidence indicating otherwise.
Another thing bothering people is by this point in the books, Honor is very wealthy. Of course, all the prize money from the first book gave her a decent nest egg, which she mostly turned over to a smart and trusted investor. And now she sort of has two separate fiefs, Manticore and Grayson, including a major city. And as Neufstiler points out, being one of a few flag captains gave her a bigger share of the prize money for Admiral Chin's captured dreadnoughts, and everyone who was there got wound up pretty well off, while she wound up +92 million. Which implies she already had in excess of $30 million.
Side note: the tech bible got another thing wrong- the number of captured dreadnoughts the RMN took into service.

Anyway, yes, she is increasingly up to her eyeballs in money, and will wind up more up to her eyeballs once she starts profiting from the massive economic boom now taking place on Grayson as they expand like crazy thanks to modern technology.
Oh, and it seems prize money is tax-free.
No surprise there, since the government gave you the money as an award in the first place. On the other hand, the fact that the RMN awards prize money at all is... kind of questionable. We've talked about it before; I think the main reason it persists is that Manticore is a society which definitely has a privileged class, and accepts this- so if you have rank in their society, you should also have wealth, lots of it. Military captains and admirals therefore need a source of wealth... hence prize money.
Yeah, Saganami island keep jet fighters, and the day before the court-martial Tankersley and Honor take two out to play 'gun-camera tag.'...

I admit, I'm at a bit of a loss why you'd feel the need for every naval officer to rate on aircraft and sailboats, but eh. It's a lot less strange than Starfleet teaching people Latin before sending them to the far corners of the galaxy.
It may be optional. Also, I think part of the idea is to enhance their sense of spatial relations by teaching them to physically maneuver craft in two and three dimensions, in a physical, tangible environment where you can look out the window and see what you're doing.

In a starship simulator, or even a real ship, you can't do that, because there are no visible reference points except the distant stars and darkness.
Is the sword thing a British tradition? I couldn't find anything, but it feels kosher.
Ceremonial dress swords are an 'everybody' thing, although Manticore is the sort of place that would still be hanging onto them in the year 4000 AD. US military officers have dress swords too, at least in the Army and Marines. Not so sure about Air Force and Navy.
Interesting way to end the chapter. Alright, let's see how Honor deals with being on the stand, no doubt it will be interesting to see the perspective the judges and lawyers add to her actions and- what's that? We never see her testimony? Cut to the panel's deliberations? What the hell?
GRRRRRR. :evil:

Sigh.
The major point of the defense (as presented by an 'impartial' judge) is that Young had every right to quit formation with the command confusion he couldn't have known about at the time, and that Honor had no right to order him back, though again Young had no way of knowing this at the time.
Personally, I think that the "Honor had no right to order him back" part is valid, but the "had a right to quit formation" part is not. Thus, he gets off on the charge of disobeying a direct order- the order was wise but not entirely lawful. You can make a good case that while Honor's orders were correct in the context of the situation, no other officer can be blamed for failing to follow them, given that those orders would have had no legal weight in light of important information Honor was concealing.

However, Young does not get off on the charge of desertion in the face of the enemy, because he did that on his own initiative, so he still gets the chop.
Formality relaxed, which is why a captain feels he can shout down an admiral. Of course, the theory is that no one shouts down anyone because they're all gentlemen and ladies.
Or, failing that, just plain professionals.

This is one of the important components of 'professionalism:' the ability to have a civil discussion of an important topic, in which neither side begins to push aggressively against the other. That kind of aggression causes human instincts to override human judgment, which almost always undermines professionalism.
Ahriman238 wrote:Cowardice and desertion, blatantly guilty, but politics win him a dishonorable discharge. Quite the coup considering the heap of evidence against him. But it seems not everyone is pleased with the verdict.
I can't blame Hemphill and the others for voting to kick him out, and I'm more than a little amazed Jurgens and Lemaitre didn't. What sane person would WANT someone who acts like Young in their armed forces? That's the real reason the trial even comes up- because no military can function if every captain feels free to behave like Young.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Simon_Jester »

Crazedwraith wrote:

The opinions of Manticore's diverse political life. The New Men don't really have a Bristih/US equivalent, but they're a small party founded on pragmatism and realpolitik, which means mostly mercenary selling of their bloc's votes for concessions and the sweet, sweet pork barrels. Though in fairness, if we hadn't seen Pierre state that they would have to keep up the expansion for decades, both the Liberal and Conservative views would seem possible.
Yeah another big problem with Weber. Because I feel these are legitimately possible and even reasonable points of view for politicians to take. But he just makes everyone holding them out to be idiots and cowards and so on. No shades of grey at all.
As noted, I don't think Weber is really capable of writing a plot that doesn't consist of "us versus them." He's capable of having people change sides and become "us" when they used to be "them." He's capable of switching to new "them" when old "them" is defeated.

But he's not capable of writing honest, serious disagreement with consequences, among people who are both on the 'right' side.
I'm not sure what Weber's problem with the press is, but I've never seen a reporter or journalist portrayed positively in anything he wrote.
Yeah this really stood out to me as well. I mean yes, tabloids are stuff are bad. But there is such a thing as legit journalism.
Taking a Watsonian approach, Manticore faces a serious, ongoing conflict between the 'closed' political realm of the Lords and the 'open' political realm of the Commons.

The media comes down firmly on the side of the 'open' politics, and will predictably tend to treat figures in the 'closed' political realm as celebrities rather than politicians. Thus, political journalism in the Star Kingdom winds up looking a lot like media coverage of celebrities: the media can't actually do anything about a given celebrity except raise scandal to sell copies and ad revenue. Therefore, there is basically no pressure towards responsibility.

I speculate that responsible journalists cover the Commons, because that's where there's news the public can actually affect.
As a random aside; should the court martial really have had an uneven number of people on it? Just to make a hung jury impossible?
I think so, yes.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by phongn »

Simon_Jester wrote:But he's not capable of writing honest, serious disagreement with consequences, among people who are both on the 'right' side.
He apparently intended to explore this with Mesa and Beowulf's philosophical differences*. Honor was supposed to die, and there'd be about twenty years until The Next Generation was old enough to go off on their own adventures - time spent with Mesa's plan at the beginning of the end (and far too many pages of exposition.) Whether he could accomplish that is another question entirely.

* Weber's hinted that the Beowulf Code may very well be too restrictive; it in and of itself was a reaction to Earth's final wars and the bioengineering that resulted in people like the Scrags.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

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As a random aside; should the court martial really have had an uneven number of people on it? Just to make a hung jury impossible?
I think so, yes.
I don't see how that automatically follows. The moment there's an 'abstain' option even vs uneven ceases to be decisive. 3 for, 3 against, 1 abstains and you still have a hung verdict.
can't blame Hemphill and the others for voting to kick him out, and I'm more than a little amazed Jurgens and Lemaitre didn't. What sane person would WANT someone who acts like Young in their armed forces? That's the real reason the trial even comes up- because no military can function if every captain feels free to behave like Young.
Someone who doesn't particularly care what happens in the real military (the ones that actually get shot at and killed) as long as it furthers their career back home? Wasn't Jurgens head of ONI when the Janacek maladministration bumbled its way into reigiting the war in 'War of Honor'?
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

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Honor frowned and rubbed the tip of her nose, considering how best to explain the apparent incongruity. Beowulf led the explored galaxy in the life sciences and boasted its most advanced genetic engineering facilities, especially in applied eugenics. The rest of humanity had virtually abandoned the entire field for over seven hundred T-years late in the tenth century of the Diaspora, after the specialized combat constructs, bio weapons, and "super soldiers" of Old Earth's Final War had wreaked unbelievable carnage on the mother world. Some historians insisted that only the Warshawski sail and the relief expeditions mounted by other members of the recently formed Solarian League had saved the planet at all, and the Sol System had needed almost five T-centuries of recovery before it regained its preeminent place in the galaxy.

Yet when the rest of humanity recoiled in horror from what it had unleashed, Beowulf did nothing of the sort. Probably, Honor thought, because Beowulfans had never gone as overboard with the concept of "improving the breed" from the beginning. The oldest of Old Earth's daughter colonies, Beowulf had evolved its own bio-sciences code well before the Final War, and that code had prohibited most of the excesses other worlds had embraced. Nor had there been as much pressure on the Beowulfan medical establishment to join the general retreat as one might have expected, for it had been researchers from Beowulf who'd tackled and defeated, one by one, the hideous diseases and genetic damage the Final War had inflicted on Old Earth's survivors.

Yet even today, almost a thousand T-years later, Beowulf maintained its code. Perhaps it was even more rigorous than it had been then, in fact. The Star Kingdom of Manticore, like most planets with decent medical science, made no legal or ethical distinction between "natural born" children and embryos brought to term in vitro. There were compelling arguments in favor of tubing, as the process was still known, not least because of the way the fetus could be monitored and the relative ease with which defects could be corrected. And, of course, it had immense appeal for career women, especially for servicewomen like Honor herself. But Beowulf rejected the practice.
Beowulf medicine, medical ethics and 'tubing' technology.

"Personally, I think it has a lot to do with the fact that they maintained their eugenics programs when everyone else rejected them. It was . . . oh, a sort of gesture to reassure the rest of the galaxy that they weren't going to do any wild tinkering with human genotypes. And they don't, you know. They've always favored a gradualist approach. They'll work right up to the natural limits of the available genetic material, but they won't go a millimeter beyond that in humans. I suppose you might argue that they crossed the line when they came up with the prolong process, but they didn't really change anything in the process. They only convinced a couple of gene groups to work a bit differently for two or three centuries. On the other hand, their insistence on natural childbearing is more than just a gesture to the rest of us, too. Mother says the official reason is a desire to avoid 'reproductive techno dependency,' but she smiles a lot when she says it, and once or twice she's admitted there's more to it."
Why Beowulf doesn't use tubing tech except in cases of medical necessity.

"Oh, don't worry about that! Uncle Henri thought it was going to turn into some sort of expensive toy, too. Until Marketing got wind of it, that is." Honor looked surprised, and Paul grinned. "You're not the only person with a treecat, Dame Honor. We supply about a third of the modules people buy for them, and the people who sell the other two-thirds are going to be very unhappy when we start marketing skinsuits for them! You have no idea how flattering it is to be considered a prodigy after all these disappointing years."
Tankersley and family (who design and sell skinsuits and life support modules like Nimitz has) come up with a treecat skinsuit.

He saw the iron-faced admiral once more, his eyes shouting out the disgust his regulation expression hid, as he read the court-martial's sentence aloud. He saw the watching ranks of black and gold while the snouts of HD cameras peered pitilessly down from vantage points and hovering air cars. He saw the junior-grade lieutenant marching forward, the brisk, impersonal movement of his gloved hands belied by the contempt in his eyes as they ripped the golden planets of a senior-grade captain from the collar of his mess dress uniform. The braid on his cuffs followed. It had been specially prepared for the event, tacked to his sleeves with a few fragile stitches that popped and tore with dreadful clarity in the silence. Then it was the medal ribbons on his chest, his shoulder boards, the unit patch with his last ship's name, the gold and scarlet Navy flash from his right shoulder.

He'd wanted to scream at them all. To spit upon their stupid concept of honor and reject their right to judge. But he couldn't. The shock and shame had cut too deep, the numbed horror of it had frozen him, and so he'd stood rigidly at attention, unable to do anything else, as the lieutenant removed the beret from his head. The white beret of a starship's commander, badged with the Kingdom's arms. Gloved fingers ripped the badge from it and returned it to his head, replacing it with contemptuous dismissal, as if he were a child unable even to dress himself, and still he stood at attention.

But then it was his sword, and he swayed ever so slightly. His eyes closed, unable to watch, as the lieutenant braced the needle-sharp point against the ground, holding it at a forty-five-degree angle, and raised a booted foot. He couldn't see it, but he heard that foot fall, heard the terrible, brittle snap of breaking steel.

He stood before them, no longer a Queen's officer. He stood in a ridiculous black suit, stripped of its finery, its badges of honor, and the breeze picked at the scraps of gold and ribbon which had meant so much more than he'd known before he lost them. The wind rolled them over the manicured grass while the broken halves of his shattered sword glittered at his feet in the brilliant sunlight.

"About face!" The admiral's voice had snapped the command, but it no longer applied to him. His eyes had opened again, against his will. It was as if some outside force were determined to make him watch his final shame as those solid ranks turned their backs upon him in perfect unison.

"Forward, march!" the admiral snapped, and the officers who had not been found wanting obeyed. They marched away from him, with a precision Marines could not have bettered, timed by the slow, measured beat of a single drum, and left him alone and abandoned on the field of his dishonor. . . .
Young's formal discharge, doesn't seem all that traumatic to me, but then it's really all about the ervice dismissing you as beneath contempt.

"It does." North Hollow smiled thinly. "But the Peeps are going to attack us again as soon as they get organized whether we declare war or not. Should they do that while the party still opposes a war vote, it'll only validate the policy Cromarty and his cronies have been advocating all along. And, of course, invalidate the Opposition's."

He paused, watching Osmond's face, and the aide nodded slowly.

"I don't expect the Government to embrace me—not, at least, until the . . . public relations situation dies down. Nor do I expect to play any overt role in the actual tactics of arranging the accommodation. But opening the door by advocating a partnership with the Government despite what it's done to me will be an investment in political capital. Hell, half the Association already realizes we're backing an untenable position. If I give them a way out—especially one that lets whatever deal they strike look like a patriotic gesture—they'll kneel down in line to kiss my ass."

"And the Government will owe you, too, whether it wants to admit it or not," Sakristos murmured.
Young is planning his first address to the House of Lords, in which he plans to argue strongly for a formal declaration of war with Haven, on the grounds that war is coming whether the politicos like it or not and he'd much rather be in a position to say I told you so later. Aside from ingratiating him to the Government, making a reputation as a statesman willing to rise above the vendetta the Navy pursued against him etc.

"My pleasure, My Lady," he got out, and she managed not to chuckle at the near-awe in his tone. Not that she'd been particularly amused when she first encountered the reverence in which Brentworth's crew held her. They watched her almost worshipfully, with a deference they normally would have offered only to the Protector himself. It had annoyed her immensely—not least because she hadn't had a clue how she should react. But there was nothing sycophantic about it, so she'd settled for just being herself, however they cared to treat her, and it seemed to have been the right tack. Awe had turned into something much more like respect, and they no longer looked as if they wanted to genuflect whenever they met her in a passage.
Funny, you'd think she delivered their entire world from nuclear devastation or someth- oh. But yes, while a lot of the younger Graysons hold her in awe, contact with Honor seems to remind them she's human.

A surprising percentage of their orbital constructs were fortifications, small, perhaps, but heavily refitted now that they had modern technology to work with. And newer, bigger forts were under construction to augment the ones left over from the long Grayson-Masada cold war. She hadn't seen any schematics or blueprints, but she was willing to bet their designs were impressively innovative, too. The Graysons hadn't simply bought off-the-shelf Manticoran designs. They still required advice and technical assistance, but they'd studied their defensive requirements and made their own decisions with formidable self-confidence, just as they had with Alvarez herself. The heavy cruiser mounted barely half as many energy weapons as a Manticoran cruiser would have, yet those she did mount were far heavier, easily a match for most battlecruisers' beams. She couldn't hit as many targets, but the ones she did hit were going to know they'd been nudged. It was a radical departure in warship design, yet it made uncompromising sense, given the increased power of modern energy weapons. And now that she'd seen it, Honor wondered how many other aspects of Manticore's own building policies had been shaped by an unconscious acceptance of outdated conventionality.
There's the line I was looking for about Grayson energy weapons. So they'll take all the technical assistance and advice from Manticore they can get, but still use their own designs and concepts. Good for them.

And the sheer scale of the Graysons' efforts was even more astonishing than their sense of innovation. The planet's entire population was barely two billion, only a quarter of it male, and she doubted that even a tiny fraction of its women had yet been integrated into its workforce, yet they'd already put in—with a great deal of Manticoran assistance, to be sure—not one, or even two, but three modern orbital shipyards. The smallest was easily eight kilometers across, and it was growing steadily . . . all of that despite the fact that they were simultaneously building a modern navy from the keel out.
Everyone say it with me. "Brave KERBAL GRAYSONS racing to the stars over the vacuum-desiccated bodies of their forebears, how bright they burn, what wonders they make!" Seriously though, we're still substantially less than two years after Honor of the Queen, Grayson industry is amazing. Oh, population figures too, 2 billion, as established 75% are women.

She shook her head, marveling silently, as the visual display showed her a quartet of orbiting battlecruisers. They were units of the new Courvosier class, and tears prickled as she watched them. The Grayson Navy had chosen its own way to acknowledge its debt to Admiral Courvosier and the other Manticorans who'd fallen in its home world's defense. Somehow, she thought, the admiral would have found it a fitting tribute . . . once he stopped laughing. But—
The GSN has 4 home-built BCs at this time, named Courvosiers, for the admiral.

When Admiral White Haven ambushed the powerful Havenite fleet that had attacked Yeltsin, eleven of its superdreadnoughts had been forced to surrender intact. Not undamaged, by any means, but in repairable condition, and White Haven and Admiral D'Orville, his immediate Manticoran subordinate, had handed them directly over to Grayson.

-snip-

"We're going to rename that one Manticore's Gift," Brentworth said quietly, and shrugged as Honor looked up at him. "It seemed appropriate, My Lady. I don't know what they've decided to call the others, and they won't be true sisters when we're done with them. We're upgrading their electronics to Manticoran standards and putting the new inertial compensators into each of them, but we're also retaining any weapons that survived. I imagine we'll refit all of them to the same standard once we have time; for right now, we're concentrating on simply getting them back into service as quickly as possible."
And to help Grayson reach true Star Nation status with a serious fleet, Hamish and the Queen let Grayson keep the 11 SDs that surrendered at 3rd Yeltsin. They're still getting upgraded to Manticore/Grayson tech-levels with the EW and the compensators.

"But, tell me, are you recruiting mixed crews?"

"Yes, My Lady, we are." Brentworth shrugged again. "There was some opposition, but those SDs made too big a hole in our personnel. We'd managed to keep up with our own construction, barely, and some of our more conservative types wanted to do the same with them—until they saw the numbers. I'm afraid we're still restricting 'our' female personnel to the capital ships, though."

"Really? Why?"

"Because," Brentworth replied with a slight blush, "the Office of Shipbuilding insisted on separate accommodations for them, and only ships of the wall have the mass for that." Honor blinked in astonishment, and his blush darkened. "I know it sounds silly, My Lady, and High Admiral Matthews argued himself blue over it, but the whole concept is still too new to us. I'm afraid it's going to be a while before we stop doing silly things."

"Don't sweat it, Mark," Honor said after a moment. "Nothing says there's any reason for Grayson to mirror-image Manticoran practice. And one thing you don't want to do is destabilize yourself making changes too quickly."
Woman serving on spaceships, just SDs right now, because they have room for separate facilities. Still, that's a massive leap forward for Grayson.

The bar and its adjoining restaurant were the gathering place of choice for virtually all off-duty personnel for many reasons. One was familiarity. Dempsey's Restaurants, Inc., had been the original flagship corporation of the Dempsey Cartel, second only to the Hauptman Cartel in wealth and power, and virtually every city in the Kingdom boasted at least one Dempsey's of its own. They were everywhere, and everyone knew them, and if the chain couldn't match the eminence of one-of-a-kind establishments like Cosmo's, or emulate the frenetic activity of "cutting edge" night spots, that was fine with its managers, because they didn't want those things. What they did want was visibility and familiarity coupled with a level of service, comfort, and quality guaranteed to attract and hold the loyalty of their patrons (even at Dempsey's prices), and that was precisely what they had achieved.


Dempsey's a ubiquitous Manticoran restaurant chain, that even has a location on Hephaestus. I mention it only because a lot of plot-important things happen here. Always kind of wondered how Honor felt about the place afterwards.

"Young—or North Hollow, now—is, indeed, a peer of the realm," he continued. "Unless he'd been attainted for treason—which he would have been, had he been convicted of cowardice in the face of the enemy—he's legally his father's heir. But the Constitution gives the Lords the right to refuse to seat someone, peer or no, as unfit for membership. It hasn't been done in something like a hundred T-years, but the right to exclude is still there, and not even the Queen can override it if a two-thirds majority of the Lords chooses to exercise it. That's what Burgundy was after when he introduced his motion to consider North Hollow's 'demonstrated lack of character.' "
The Lords can exclude a member by supermajority, like Cathy Montainge. The Duchess of Burgundy, aligned and fancying herself the Lords' conscience, tried to raise a vote to exclude Young.

"Odd." Ramirez rubbed an eyebrow, frowning down into his drink, and made a mental note to report Summervale's presence to Marine Intelligence. They liked to keep track of their own bad apples, even after they were officially "theirs" no longer. "It's probably just a coincidence," he went on thoughtfully, "but I wonder what a paid duelist, who has to know how any Marine who recognizes him is going to react, is doing aboard Hephaestus?"
Sadly, we know. Marines seem to have their own intelligence organ, which among other things keeps track of their former members. The bad ones, at least.

"Honor Stephanie Harrington," Mayhew said quietly, "are you prepared, in the presence of the assembled Steadholders of Grayson, to swear fealty to the Protector and People of Grayson under the eyes of God and His Holy Church?"

"I am, Your Grace, yet I may do so only with two reservations." Honor withdrew her hands from the sword hilt, but there was no refusal in her clear soprano, and Mayhew nodded. He knew what was coming, of course. There'd been quite a bit of discussion over ways to deal with this point.

"It is your ancient and lawful right to state reservations to your oath," he said. "Yet it is also the right of this Conclave to reject those reservations and deny your place, should it find them offensive to it. Do you acknowledge that right?"

-snip

"As Your Grace knows, I am also a subject of the Star Kingdom of Manticore, a member of its peerage, and an officer in the Queen's Navy. As such, I am under obligations I cannot honorably disregard. Nor may I abandon the nation to which I was born or my oaths to my Queen to accept even a steadholder's high office, or swear fealty to Grayson without reserving to myself the right and responsibility to meet and perform my duties to her."

Mayhew nodded once more, then looked over her head at the Conclave.

"My Lords, this seems to me a right and honorable declaration, but the judgment in such matters must be yours. Does any man here dispute this woman's right to hold steading on Grayson with this limitation?"

Silence answered, and the Protector turned back to Honor.

-snip-

"Your Grace, this woman is not of our Faith, yet she has so declared before us all, making no effort to pretend otherwise. More, she stands proven a good and godly woman, one who hazarded her own life and suffered grievous wounds to protect not only our Church but our world when we had no claim upon her. I say to you, and to the Conclave," he turned to face the steadholders, and his resonant voice rose higher and stronger, "that God knows His own. The Church accepts this woman as its champion and defender, whatever the faith through which she may serve God's will in her own life."
Honor formally states her reservations before taking her Steadholders oath, her issues are heard and promptly dealt with.

The Church had learned by horrible example to stay out of politics, but Grayson remained an essentially theocratic world. The Act of Toleration legalizing other faiths was barely a century old, and no steadholder not of the Church had ever held office.
I could be wrong, but I believe that predates contact with the wider galaxy by almost twenty years, in which case I am both surprised and impressed by the Graysons.

That, too, was unprecedented. The Steading of Harrington was the newest on Grayson; as such, she would normally have retired to the horseshoe's far end and uppermost tier after giving her oath, as befitted her steading's lack of seniority. But she also wore the Star of Grayson, and that, though she hadn't known it when the medal was presented, made her Protector's Champion.

She held the sword carefully, praying Nimitz's clawless restraint would last, and walked to the carved wooden desk beside the throne. It bore both her Grayson coat of arms and the crossed swords of the Protector's Champion, and she sighed in relief as Nimitz leapt lightly down onto it..
By virtue of her medal, she is the Protector's Champion. By virtue of that, she sits at the Protector's right hand and not in the nosebleed row on the far side of the room with the rest of the new Steadholders. Also, it was mentioned briefly earlier that Honor's heraldry is a book-and-key beneath an old-school space helmet.


"I mean, you're right about the outcome, of course. And she did save the repair base and its personnel. Including you."
"What exactly are you implying?" Paul snapped. He felt a wave of stillness rippling out from them, lapping at Dempsey's other patrons. He could hardly believe the effortless speed with which the confrontation had sprung up, the ease and skill with which the other man had provoked him. It couldn't have been an accident. He knew that, but he no longer cared.

"Why, only that her feelings for you—well known feelings, I might add, for anyone who can read a 'fax—may have influenced her." The stranger's voice was an ice-cold sneer. "No doubt it was all dreadfully romantic, but, still, one can't help wondering if the willingness to sacrifice several thousand lives simply to save someone she cared about is really a desirable quality in a military officer. Do you think it is, Captain?"

Paul Tankersley went white. He rose from his barstool with the slow, over-controlled movements of a man hovering on the brink of violence. The stranger was taller than he was, and he looked fit, despite his slim, wiry build, but Paul never doubted he could smash the other into pulp, and he wanted nothing more than to do just that. But the alarm bells were louder and more insistent, even through the red haze of his fury. It had happened too quickly, come at him with too little warning, for him to think clearly, yet not too quickly for him to realize it was deliberate. He had no idea why this man had set out to provoke him, but he sensed the danger in allowing him to succeed.

He drew a deep breath, longing to erase the smiling sneer from that handsome face and leave it far less handsome in the process. He stood for one tense moment, and then, deliberately, turned his back to walk away. But the stranger wasn't done yet. He only stood himself, laughing at Paul's back, and his raised voice carried clearly through the hushed bar.

"Tell me, Captain Tankersley—are you really that good a fuck? Are you so good she was willing to throw away her entire command to save you? Or was it just that she was that desperate to have someone—anyone—between her legs?"

The sudden crudity was too much. It snapped Paul's control, and he whipped back around with death in his face. The other man's sneer slipped for just an instant, and two iron-hard fists caught him before he could even move.

-snip-

He spat a broken tooth onto the floor in a gob of blood and phlegm, then dragged the back of his hand across his gory chin, and his eyes, no longer polished and mocking, glittered with madness.

"You struck me." His voice was thick, slurred with the pain of his smashed mouth and choked with hatred. "You struck me!"

Paul took a half-step towards him, eyes hot, before he could stop himself, but the other man never even flinched. He only stared up from his knees, his face a mask of blood and hate that bordered on outright insanity.

"How dare you lay hands on me?!" he breathed. Paul snarled in contempt and turned away, but that thick, hating voice wasn't finished.

"No one lays hands on me, Tankersley! You'll meet me for this—I demand satisfaction!"
How Paul Tankersley got mousetrapped into a duel with Young's professional duelist. Bonus points in that the duelist is Denver Summervale, cousin to the PM and the guy running that Medusan drug lab back in the first book. You know, the disposable one. He killed an awful lot of NPA agents.

She looked to her left, narrowing her eyes against the brilliant morning sun spilling in through the windows as the door closed behind her latest visitor. Her steadholder's mansion was overly luxurious for her tastes, especially in a new steading with a strained budget, but her own quarters occupied only a tiny portion of Harrington House's total space. The rest was given up to bureaucratic offices, electronic and hardcopy files, communications centers, and all the other paraphernalia of government.
Honor has a Steadholder's Mansion, though it really is mostly the administrative offices for running her Steading properly.

"I'm not blind to the privileged position I held, My Lady, but I don't think that necessarily invalidates my judgment, nor do I see any reason why every world in the galaxy has to ape social patterns which may or may not suit it. And, to be perfectly frank, I don't think Grayson women are ready for the demands the Protector is placing upon them. Leaving aside the question of innate capability—which, I'm surprised to say, is easier to do since I began working with you than I once expected it to be—they don't have the training for it. I suspect many of them will be desperately unhappy trying to adjust to the changes. I shudder whenever I think about the consequences for our traditional family life, and it's not easy for the Church to make the transition, either. Besides, deep down inside I can't put aside an entire lifetime of thinking one way and start thinking another way just because someone tells me to."

Honor nodded slowly. The first time she'd met Howard Clinkscales, she'd thought he was a dinosaur, and perhaps he was. But there was nothing apologetic or even particularly defensive in his tone or manner. He didn't like the changes about him, yet he hadn't responded to them as the unthinking reactionary she'd once thought him, either.

"But whether or not I agree with everything Protector Benjamin does, he is my Protector," Clinkscales went on, "and a majority of the steadholders support him, as well." He shrugged. "Perhaps my doubts will prove unfounded if the new system works. Perhaps they'll even make it work better, by making me a little more aware of the sensibilities we're treading upon—cushioning the blows, as it were. Either way, I have a responsibility to do the best I can. If I can preserve worthwhile parts of our tradition along the way, I will, but I take my oath to Protector Benjamin—and to you, My Lady—seriously."
Howard Clinkscales, former head of planetary security (he was the one who had several Masadan spies tortured off-screen in HotQ) and Honor's Regent while she's on Manticore. One of the most stubbornly conservative men on Grayson, but he takes his oaths to Benjamin and Honor seriously.

"Before you took your seat in the Conclave, some of your people were worried about what would happen with 'that foreign woman' holding steading over them. Now that they're getting to know you, they're rather proud of your, um, eccentricities. This steading's been attracting people who were more eager than most for change from the beginning, My Lady; now a lot of them seem to hope some of your attitudes will rub off on them."
Will be important next book, but Harrington Steading is attracting the more liberal/progressive/reformist/cosmopolitan elements of Grayson society, people who don't mind answering to an offworld woman, as long as she's Honor Harrington, anyway. Not that surprising when you really think about it.

Crystoplast wasn't really all that new, though it might be to a Grayson engineer. The armorplast routinely used in spacecraft was far more advanced; in fact, it had relegated the cheaper crystoplast almost exclusively to civilian industry, where design tolerances could be traded off against cost savings, and it took her a moment to fix the differences between the two of them in her mind.

"All right, Mr. Gerrick," she said. "I'm with you. May I assume this project of yours employs crystoplast?"

"Yes, My Lady." Gerrick leaned forward, the last of his nervousness fading as eagerness took over. "We've never had anything with that much tensile strength—not on Grayson. It offers a whole new range of possibilities for enviro engineering. Why, we could dome whole towns and cities with it!"

Honor nodded in sudden understanding. Grayson's heavy metal concentrations made simple atmospheric dust an all too real danger. Provision for internal over-pressure and filtration systems were as routine in Grayson building codes as roofs were on other planets, and public structures—like Protector's Palace, or her own steadholder's mansion—were built under climate-controlled domes as a matter of course.


Individual buildings are frequently domed for protection on Grayson, but Manticoran engineering can dome hundreds of hectares of land, making surface farming a lot more feasible, to say nothing of doming whole towns.

"Ten million austins, My Lady," the engineer said in a small voice.

Honor nodded. Given the current exchange rate, Gerrick was talking about a seven-and-a-half-million-Manticoran-dollar price tag. That was a bit steeper than she'd thought, but—
Exchange rate between the Grayson Austin and the Manticoran Dollar.

"We're close to our credit limits already, My Lady. A private commercial investment would work, but until we pay down some of our start-up costs, our public borrowing capacity is limited. Much as I would like to see Adam's project tried, I can't advocate further public sector borrowing. We have to maintain some reserve against emergencies."

"I see." Honor drew invisible circles on her blotter with her forefinger, feeling Gerrick's eyes on her while she frowned in thought. Clinkscales was right about their fiscal position. Grayson was a poor planet, and the costs of establishing a new steading were enormous. If she'd known about Gerrick's idea, she would cheerfully have waived the construction of Harrington House, despite Clinkscales' argument that it had been an unavoidable necessity, if only as the steading's administrative center. As it was, Harrington Steading was in the black, barely, for the first time in the two local years since its founding, and that wasn't going to last.
A lot of money has to be borrowed to start a Steading, before they have people to tax. Grayson seems to have slightly short years.

"Mr. Gerrick is about to submit a letter of resignation to the steading. At the same time you accept it—with regrets, of course—I want you to draw up a permit for a privately held corporation called, um, Grayson Sky Domes, Ltd. Mr. Gerrick will go on salary as chief engineer and development officer, with a suitable salary and a thirty percent interest. I'll be chairman of the board, and you'll be our CEO, with another twenty percent interest. My agent on Manticore will be our chief financial officer, and I'll have him cut a check immediately for a few million austins for start-up costs."
Unable to find public funds for the doming projects, Honor invests some of her personal fortune in starting a corporation to dome-over Grayson. It's not like she'll terribly miss seven or eight million dollars now.

Honor stiffened. Agni here? The Manticoran element might explain why Mac was making the call instead of Colonel Hill, but why hadn't Mike written to warn her she was headed for Yeltsin's Star? For that matter, why come down in a pinnace instead of screening her from orbit? If Agni was in small craft range of Grayson, she could have sent a message on ahead hours ago.

-snip-

"What is it, Mike?" She forced her voice to remain level and gentle. "Why didn't you screen me?"

"Because—" Henke drew a deep breath. "Because I had to tell you in person." Each word seemed to cost her physical agony, and she ignored Honor's hands to grip her shoulders.

"Tell me what?" Honor wasn't frightened yet. There hadn't been time, and she was too concerned for her friend.

"Honor, it's—" Henke drew another breath, then pulled her close, hugging her fiercely. "Paul was challenged to a duel," she whispered into Honor's shoulder. "He— Oh, God, Honor! He's dead!"
Honor gets the news about Paul, technically so does the audience but we sort of figured that was coming.

"The caller," Corell continued carefully, "informed me that she would neither answer questions nor repeat herself. That, as I'm sure she intended, assured my full attention. There wasn't time to get a recorder on it, and I can't repeat her exact words, but there wasn't much room for confusion in them.

"According to my caller, Denver Summervale was, indeed, hired to kill Captain Tankersley." Air hissed between teeth around the table. None of them were surprised, but the confirmation still struck like a fist. "In addition," Corell went on very levelly, "he's been retained to kill Dame Honor, as well."

Alistair McKeon's chair fell to the deck as he rose with a murderous snarl, but Corell didn't even flinch. She only nodded, and he made himself bend down to set the chair upright once more, then forced himself to sit back down on it.

"As you all know, Captain Tankersley wounded Summervale," Corell said. "It wasn't a very serious wound, unfortunately, and he used his need for medical attention as an excuse to leave the field, then disappeared on the way to the hospital. For your unofficial information, Marine Intelligence is working on the assumption that he was paid for the job, though neither they nor the Landing Police have been able as yet to turn up any evidence to that effect. In light of that, I had assumed, as the authorities also did, that he intended to remain out of sight, avoiding official scrutiny until the public furor died down, or even that he'd left the system. According to my caller, however, he's simply lying low until Dame Honor returns. He and whoever hired him assume she'll challenge him on sight, at which time he's to kill her, too."

-snip-

"At this moment, according to my caller, he's in hiding in a hunting chalet on Gryphon. I've checked. There is a chalet where she said it was, and the entire facility's been chartered by someone who's provided his own staff for his stay. Its coordinates are listed here, along with the number of fellow 'guests' and 'staff' acting as his bodyguards. Most of them, I suspect, are Organization professionals."
Young's personal habits come back to bite him. He blackmails his security chief (granted, the old man had blackmailed her into the job) into performing humiliating sexual acts with him, proving once and for all that Pavel Young is too stupid to live. She calls Sarnow's chief of staff anonymously and tells them where to find Denver Summervale.


"Then issue me an automatic," she said. "Ten millimeter."

The sergeant looked over Honor's shoulder at his captain. He was a man who'd spent a lifetime with weapons, and the thought of putting one into the hands of a woman who spoke like that frightened him. It frightened Henke, too, but she bit her lip and nodded.

-snip-

"Don't worry, Mike." There was no life, no expression, in Honor's voice, but her mouth moved in a cold, dead travesty of a smile. "Nimitz won't let me do that. Besides," the first trace of feeling touched her face—an ugly, hungry twist of her lips, more sensed than seen and somehow more frightening than anything she'd done or said yet, "I have something more important to do."
On hearing the news of Paul's death, Honor makes immediate arrangements to return home, ignoring everyone's discussions that don't involve that. Then while they wait two days taking on reactor mass (a real need, good) she is in her room nearly catatonic before getting up and going to the range. It's sort of implied that Nimitz is the one reason why she won't suicide or lay down and die, well, Nimitz and revenge. Yeah, this is the book where Honor Harrington becomes the Terminator.

He vanished into the weapons storage, and Henke stepped up to Honor's side. She watched the long fingers tapping memo keys with slow, painful precision, and her own face was troubled. The Star Kingdom's military hadn't used chemical-powered firearms in over three T-centuries, for no firearm ever made could match the single-hit lethality of the hyper-velocity darts of a pulser or pulse rifle. A man hit in the hand by a pulser dart might—if he was very, very lucky—survive with the mere loss of his arm, and that made auto-loading pistols antiques, yet every Manticoran warship carried a few of them, precisely because their wounds were survivable. They were always available, and always in the traditional ten-millimeter caliber, yet never issued for duty use; they had only one function, and as long as duels were legal they were carried for those who wished to practice with them.
Dueling pistols, antiquated 20th century tech, 10 mm with a 10-round clip, automatic. Infinitely more lethal than any weapon real pistol duels were fought with.

Also, a word on the lethality of pulsers, they tend to turn people into a fine red mist.

Colonel Tomas Ramirez and Major Susan Hibson had been shocked by their latest readiness tests. While no one could fault the willingness of HMS Nike's Marine detachment, the entire battalion was sadly out of training. The influx of replacements and corresponding transfer out of experienced personnel had only made bad worse, and Colonel Ramirez and his able exec had concluded that Something Had To Be Done, whether Nike was operational or not. After all, Royal Manticoran Marines shouldn't stand around and lose their edge just because the sissies who ran the Navy broke one of their ships!

A quick memo up the chain of command earned the endorsement of no less a personage than General Dame Erica Vonderhoff, Commanding Officer, Fleet Marine Force. Of course, COFMF couldn't issue orders to the Navy; the best she could do was authorize Ramirez to request troop lift support on an "as available" basis with her blessings.

-snip-

It had seemed Colonel Ramirez would have to settle for Camp Justin after all, but Fate works in mysterious ways. He mentioned his problem to Captain McKeon over a round of drinks one evening, and the captain saw an opportunity to help improve interservice relations. He and Commander Venizelos of HMS Apollo were due to participate in a defensive exercise in Manticore-B, and, with a little crowding, their ships could lift Nike's full Marine detachment plus its pinnaces to Gryphon with just a short hop through hyper.


All very scrupulously clean and aboveboard. Nothing suspicious here, move along.

"Yes, Ma'am. But I'm worried about his nav systems." He met Hibson's gaze with total innocence. "Chief Harkness and I have run a complete diagnostic series without managing to isolate a fault, but I'm pretty sure there is one."

"Oh?" Hibson leaned back and popped her gum thoughtfully. Lieutenant Tremaine hadn't been briefed for the operation, but that didn't seem to have kept him from figuring things out. "Is it bad enough to downcheck the boat?"

"Oh, I wouldn't say that, Ma'am. It's just that the Chief and I would feel better if we were along to ride herd on the systems. And, of course, if something did happen to go wrong, he and I would be on the spot to make repairs . . . and verify the fault for the record."
Yep, clean hands and innocent looks all around. They've even thought ahead to their alibi.

Navy skinsuits were designed primarily for vacuum, with an eye to allowing their wearers to engage in delicate repair work and similarly intricate activities over what could be very lengthy periods indeed. Marine skinnies, on the other hand, while undeniably more comfortable than powered battle armor, were heavier, bulkier, and generally far more of a pain in the ass than Navy gear, because they incorporated light but highly effective body armor and were intended for hostile planetary environments as well as vacuum. As long as the wearer's efficiency wasn't impaired, comfort ran a poor second to toughness under the Marine design philosophy, but even the Corps' most accomplished bitchers had to admit that the worst a Gryphon—or even a Sphinx—winter could offer would do little more than inconvenience a skinsuited Marine. Which, given the mission brief's weather reports, was probably a very good thing.
Differences between Navy and Marine skinsuits. tl;dr Navy skinsuits are meant to survive vacuum and be comfortable to sit in and you can type in them. Marine suits are much more heavily armored, good for a wide variety or environments, but lack comfort.


"Sar'major Babcock, would you mind telling me just what the hell you think you're doing here?" His tone was more resigned than his words might have suggested, and Iris Babcock snapped to attention.

"Sir! The Sergeant-Major respectfully reports that she seems to have become confused, Sir! I was under the impression this was one of Prince Adrian's pinnaces, Colonel."

Ramirez shook his head again. "Won't wash, Gunny. Prince Adrian doesn't even have the Mark Thirty yet."

"Sir, I—"

"Hold it right there." The colonel turned to glare at Francois Ivashko, his own battalion sergeant-major. "I don't suppose you happened to log Sar'major Babcock as an observer supernumerary, did you, Gunny?"

"Uh, no, Sir," Ivashko said. "But—"

"Well, in that case, get her logged now. I'm surprised at you, Gunny! You know how important the proper paperwork is. Now I'm going to have to clear this retroactively with Major Yestachenko and Captain McKeon!"
...

Glad we got that cleared up.

Oh look, that one pinnace with the headquarters platoon had a dodgy nav computer. I guess they'll just have to set down in the middle of the wilderness, maybe seek shelter nearby.

Colonel Ramirez's official ops plan had called for his HQ platoon to play the role of a local quick-reaction defensive force against the rest of his Marines, and, just to make things interesting for the "raiders," he'd armed all the HQ types with stunners instead of the laser-tag rifles and sidearms their fellows carried.

The entire outside security force was down and unconscious before it even realized it was under attack.
Stunners, not used often.

"Who paid you to kill Captain Tankersley, Summervale?"

"Go to—hell, you—son-of-a-bitch!" Summervale gasped.

"That's not nice," Ramirez chided again. "I'm going to have to insist you tell me."

"Why—the fuck—should I?" Summervale actually managed a strangled laugh. "You'll just—kill me—when I do—so fuck you!"

"Mr. Summervale, Mr. Summervale!" Ramirez sighed. "The Captain would have my ass if I killed you, so just answer the question."

"Like hell!" Summervale panted.

"I think you should reconsider," Ramirez said softly, and Scotty Tremaine turned away, his face white, at the sound of his voice. "I only said I wouldn't kill you, Mr. Summervale," the colonel whispered almost lovingly. "I never said I wouldn't hurt you."
This is actually the second time Honor is going to get priceless information from torture, though her hands remain totally clean in both cases. Kind of getting mixed messages there.

"Very good." Henke leaned back in her chair and watched the ugly, comforting bulk of HMSS Hephaestus filling the forward visual display. Agni was well inside the safety perimeter of her own impeller wedge; she'd been on conventional thrusters for the last twenty minutes, but Hephaestus' tractors had her now, drawing her hammerhead bow steadily into the waiting docking bay. All Henke's ship had to do was insure the correctness of her final docking attitude, which required a finicky degree of precision the space station's tractors simply couldn't provide.
Apparently docking is a trifle more complicated and cooperative than I'd assumed, with the ship's thrusters correcting for altitude as the tractors reel them in.

"Thank you." Honor's lips formed a smile that never touched her eyes. Those dark, ice-cored eyes that never warmed, never seemed to blink even on Agni's range. Henke had no idea how many rounds Honor had fired, but she knew she'd spent at least four hours a day there, every day, and her absolute lack of expression as she punched bullet after bullet through the hearts and heads of human holo targets had terrified Henke. She'd moved like a machine, with a dreadful, economic precision that denied any human feeling, as if her very soul had frozen within her.
There's a line I can't seem to find again where Honor compares herself to a glacier, freezing away the pain until she can let it destroy her, implacable and going to destroy both her enemies and herself. We also know she spent the entire week's flight home from Grayson practicing a minimum of four hours a day on the firing range.

"Twelve, then. Are all twelve of you ready to spend that long off Grayson when the Corps is prepared to guarantee Lady Harrington's safety?"

"She won't be aboard ship for that entire time, Sir. Whenever she leaves it, she leaves her Marine sentry behind. And in answer to your question, we aren't off Grayson as long as we're with our Steadholder." Ramirez couldn't quite stop his eyes from rolling upward, and LaFollet allowed himself a small smile. "Nonetheless, Sir, I take your point, and the answer is yes. We're prepared to spend however long we have to off Grayson."
A dozen of Honor's personal armsmen, making up both her bodyguard and the police force of her Steading, follow her home. Led by Major Andrew LaFollet.

"Certainly, Sir. I was assigned to Palace Security prior to the Maccabeus coup attempt. So was my older brother, as a member of Protector Benjamin's personal guard. He was killed, and Lady Harrington not only took over his duty to guard the Protector but killed his murderer with her bare hands—before she went out to protect my entire planet." He met Ramirez's gaze very steadily. "Grayson owes her its freedom; my family owes her life debt for completing the task my brother couldn't and avenging his death. I volunteered for the Harrington Steadholder's Guard the day its formation was announced."

Ramirez leaned further back, his eyes probing. "I see. Forgive me for asking this, Major, but I know from my own reading of the 'faxes that not all Graysons are pleased to have a woman as a steadholder. Given that, are you confident all your men share your feelings?"

"They all volunteered for this specific assignment, Colonel." An edge of frost crept into LaFollet's voice for the first time. "As for their personal motivations, Armsman Candless' father died aboard Covington at the Battle of Blackbird. Corporal Mattingly's older brother died aboard Saul in the same battle. Armsman Yard lost a cousin and an uncle in First Yeltsin; another cousin survived Blackbird only because Lady Harrington insisted that every Grayson life pod be picked up, despite the risk that Saladin would return before they were found. His transponder was damaged, and our sensors couldn't find him; Fearless's could . . . and did. There isn't a man in my detachment—or the entire Guard, for that matter—who didn't join because he owes Lady Harrington a personal debt, but that's only part of it. She's . . . special, Sir. I don't know exactly how to explain it, but—"
All of Honor's personal armsmen owe her a personal debt of some kind for her actions in the second book.

"The second reason I screened," he continued, "was to inform you that, during your absence, Parliament finally voted out the declaration of war. We resumed active operations against Haven as of zero-one-hundred hours last Wednesday." Honor nodded, and he went on. "Since we're attached to Home Fleet, our own operational posture won't be materially affected, at least in the short term, but it's more important than ever to expedite your repairs."
And after all that, that's all the attention the actual declaration of war gets. Well, we'll hear a little from the front at the very end of the book.

She hadn't realized until this morning that her Grayson armsmen had become a permanent fixture in her life. Which, given her recent mental state, probably wasn't surprising but still bothered her. She ought to have been paying more attention, and, if she had been, she might have been able to nip it in the bud.

Now it was too late, and she suspected adjusting to their presence wasn't going to be the easiest thing she'd ever done. Not that she seemed to have a vote. It was clear LaFollet had been briefed on her, because he'd been ready not only to cite chapter and verse from the relevant Grayson law codes but to trade shamelessly on her own sense of duty. She'd detected Howard Clinkscales' hand behind the major's shrewd choice of tactics, and the discovery that LaFollet was ex-Palace Security only reinforced her suspicions.

Be that as it may, her chief armsman had politely demolished—or ignored as unworthy of demolition—every argument she'd advanced against his presence, and she hadn't even been able to fall back on Manticoran law. A special writ from the Queen's Bench had arrived in the morning mail, granting a Foreign Office request that Steadholder Harrington (who just happened to live in the same body as Captain Harrington) be authorized a permanent armed security detachment—with diplomatic immunity, no less! The fact that Tomas Ramirez had obviously signed on to the conspiracy, coupled with MacGuiness' patent approval, had given LaFollet an unfair advantage, and her last resistance had crumpled when Nimitz insisted on tapping into the major's emotions and relaying his deep concern for and devotion to her.
Honor gets special dispensation to have armed guards aboard her ship, and as a foreign noble, her guards enjoy a degree of diplomatic immunity. I'm amused that they bothered to plan and rehearse for her objections when she realized they weren't going anywhere.

He washed down his pretzel with a sip of beer and sneered inwardly. Some members of Parliament had tried for decades to outlaw the Ellington Protocol; perhaps they might even succeed some day, yet it was legal enough for now. Society frowned upon it, and the alternate Dreyfus Protocol was much more acceptable, but it would be child's play to manipulate a bereaved lover into using language intemperate enough to justify his insistence upon it. The Dreyfus Protocol limited the duelists to a total of five rounds each and allowed only the exchange of single shots. Perhaps even more importantly, the Master of the Field was charged with convincing both parties that honor had been satisfied after each exchange . . . and any duel ended with first blood.
Dueling stupidity, let's get this out of the way. There are two protocols or forms of dueling.

In the Dreyfuss Protocol. you start back-to-back like a traditional pistol duel, count out thirty paces and stop. On the referee's command, turn and fire one shot. Assuming no one is dead or too wounded to continue, or wounded at all, it's first blood, the ref will ask again if honor isn't satisfied and you cannot be reconciled, by taking fire once your honor is good if you decide to bow out now. Otherwise advance one pace towards opponent, and fire one shot on the judge's command. Repeat until someone is wounded, dead, or willing to quit. Or you run out of ammo, the Dreyfuss Protocol only gives you five rounds.

The Ellington Protocol is for people who like Westerns. You stand in two circles, forty meters (130 feet) apart with your pistol pointed straight down, fully loaded. On the referee's command, blast away until someone dies or drops their gun in surrender, or your gun clicks empty.

In either case, the referee has a very modern pulser and will turn a rulebreaker into a find red mist. Sometimes they'll give a warning first, but as deadly as modern weapons are....
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Ahriman238 »

"I'm Honor Harrington," she said

"Should that mean something to me?" he asked haughtily, and she smiled. It wasn't a pleasant smile, and Summervale's palms felt suddenly damp as he began to suspect how terribly he'd underestimated this woman. Her eyes were leveled missile batteries, untouched by any human emotion. He could feel the hate in her, but she was using that hate, not letting it use her, and every instinct shouted that he'd finally met a predator as dangerous as himself.

"Yes, it should," she said. "After all, I'm the woman Earl North Hollow hired you to kill, Mr. Summervale. Just as he hired you to kill Paul Tankersley." Her voice carried clearly, and shocked silence splashed out across the restaurant.

Summervale stared at her. She was insane! There had to be fifty people within earshot, and she was accusing a peer of the realm of paying for murder? He floundered, stunned and unable to believe she'd actually said it. No one—no one!—had ever accused him to his face of taking money to kill someone else's enemies. They'd known what would happen if they did—that he'd have no choice but to challenge and kill them. Not just to silence them, but because he would become an object of contempt whose challenge no man or woman of honor would ever have to accept again if he let their charge pass.

Yet she hadn't stopped there. She'd actually dared to identify the man who'd paid him to kill her! He'd never counted on that, and he cursed himself for his complacency even through his shock at hearing the words. No one had ever before known who'd hired him. The anonymity of his employers had been one of his most valuable wares, the ultimate protection for both of them. But this target did know. Worse, she had his own recorded voice identifying North Hollow, and his mind raced as he tried to sort out the implications.

No prosecutor could use it against him, given the circumstances under which it had been obtained, but private citizens weren't bound by the same constraints as the legal establishment. If he or North Hollow brought charges for slander, they'd have to prove her allegations were untrue. Under those circumstances she could damned well use it in her defense, and where it came from or how it happened to be in her possession wouldn't matter. What would matter was that she had it, and those were only the legal consequences. It didn't even consider what would happen if his other employers realized he'd talked and—
Yes, that is a problem with being an assassin if people start getting the idea you can't protect your clients' identities. And a public accusation is one thing neither Summervale nor Young was prepared for. Way to cut through the Gordian Knot there Honor.

His head snapped to one side, and then it snapped back again as the same hand struck on the backswing. She crowded him back against the bar and slapped him again. Again and again and again while every eye watched.

His hand shot up, clutching desperately for her wrist. He got a grip, but it lasted only an instant before she broke it with contemptuous ease and stepped back. Blood drooled down his chin and spotted his shirt and tunic, and his eyes were mad as someone manhandled him yet again. He tensed to attack her with his bare hands, but a tiny fragment of sanity held him back. He couldn't do that. She'd driven him into the same corner he'd driven so many victims into, left him no option but to challenge her. It was the only way he could silence her, and she had to be silenced.

"I—" He coughed and drew a handkerchief from his pocket to wipe his bleeding mouth. She only stood and watched him with icy disgust, but at least the gesture gave him a moment to drag his thoughts back together.

"You're insane," he said finally, trying to put conviction into his voice. "I don't know you, and I've never met this Earl North Hollow! How dare you accuse me of being some—some sort of hired assassin! I don't know why you should want to force a quarrel on me, but no one can talk to me this way!"

"I can," she said coldly.

"Then I have no choice but to demand satisfaction!"

"Good." She let an emotion other than contempt into her voice for the first time, and Denver Summervale wasn't the only person who shuddered as he heard it. "Colonel Tomas Ramirez—I believe you know him?—will act as my second. He'll call on your friend—Livitnikov, isn't it? Or were you going to hire someone else this time?"

"I—" Summervale swallowed again. This was a nightmare. It couldn't be happening! His hand clenched in a fist around the bloody handkerchief, and he drew a deep breath. "Mr. Livitnikov is, indeed, a friend of mine. I feel confident he'll act for me."

"I'm sure you do. No doubt you pay him enough." Harrington's smile was like a flaying knife, and her eyes glittered. "Tell him to start studying the Ellington Protocol, Mr. Summervale," she said, and turned on her heel.

She arranged to provoke him into making the challenge instead of the other way around, and still picks his preferred method of dueling. Well, at least he's off-balance, but give him a couple of days to collect himself and even that advantage will be gone.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Simon_Jester »

phongn wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:But he's not capable of writing honest, serious disagreement with consequences, among people who are both on the 'right' side.
He apparently intended to explore this with Mesa and Beowulf's philosophical differences*. Honor was supposed to die, and there'd be about twenty years until The Next Generation was old enough to go off on their own adventures - time spent with Mesa's plan at the beginning of the end (and far too many pages of exposition.) Whether he could accomplish that is another question entirely.

* Weber's hinted that the Beowulf Code may very well be too restrictive; it in and of itself was a reaction to Earth's final wars and the bioengineering that resulted in people like the Scrags.
And yet, it's pretty clear that Beowulf is "us" and Mesa is "them." So while Weber may ramble and infodump about how arguably the "us" faction is going too far and is not right in all things, it's still not a legitimate disagreement. It's just a "them" group which is motivated by extremism and being overinvested in their ideology, which he's done before.

My real point is that tension in Weber stories nearly* always boils down to "us and them," with a "them" group of well-defined antagonists who must be either overcome, bypassed, or recruited for the plot to go on. There isn't a lot of room for internal disagreement among "us" about what the proper course of action is. Or for partially disaffected factions that waver between "us" and "them," for legitimate and honorable reasons.

And if you're a member of "us," then your head and heart are necessarily in more or less the right place, you always* try to act logically in a crisis according to a pretty accurate picture of the situation. You don't scheme or seek advantage against other members of "us" unless you're secretly a traitor working for "them."

So all major parties, entities and stories in a Weber novel tend to adhere pretty smoothly to a straightforward "black and white" list of affiliations. This isn't so noticeable in international politics, or in fantasy settings where wars between the forces of light and darkness are the norm. But it's damned conspicuous when he writes domestic politics. Because as a consequence Weber can't write a loyal opposition with common sense to save his life.
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*[There are a few exceptions to this, but the general pattern holds pretty well as far as I can tell, especially when you exclude stuff he's done in collaboration with other writers]

Batman wrote:I don't see how that automatically follows. The moment there's an 'abstain' option even vs uneven ceases to be decisive. 3 for, 3 against, 1 abstains and you still have a hung verdict.
So don't allow abstentions. Jurors and panels don't have to be allowed to abstain; in a law code where presumption of innocence holds, no one should ever vote 'abstain' instead of 'innocent.'
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Simon_Jester »

Ahriman238 wrote:Young's formal discharge, doesn't seem all that traumatic to me, but then it's really all about the service dismissing you as beneath contempt.
It's not physically brutalizing, but it's supremely humiliating if you're part of the 'club' to which these symbols matter.
There's the line I was looking for about Grayson energy weapons. So they'll take all the technical assistance and advice from Manticore they can get, but still use their own designs and concepts. Good for them.
Although as noted I think they're going in the exact wrong direction- designing the ship's energy armament to fight the last war, or at least the war people expected prior to 1900 PD when beam and missile combat were viewed as co-equal outcomes.
Everyone say it with me. "Brave KERBAL GRAYSONS racing to the stars over the vacuum-desiccated bodies of their forebears, how bright they burn, what wonders they make!" Seriously though, we're still substantially less than two years after Honor of the Queen, Grayson industry is amazing. Oh, population figures too, 2 billion, as established 75% are women.
Although a lot of this industry seems to come from Manticore supplying the material and processing technology to build impressive things in a hurry. The same technology that lets you build 1.5-km dreadnoughts out of superalloy will probably let you build a construct ten or 100 times as big out of mere ordinary steel, in fairly short order.
This is actually the second time Honor is going to get priceless information from torture, though her hands remain totally clean in both cases. Kind of getting mixed messages there.
Although in the first case it's really the Graysons doing it on their own initiative and behalf. In this case... well honestly, I think Weber kind of set this one up; Summervale's a rotten bastard and a hired contract killer who uses a stupid institution to make his killings 'legal.' Hard to sympathize.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by eyl »

Ahriman238 wrote:By virtue of her medal, she is the Protector's Champion. By virtue of that, she sits at the Protector's right hand and not in the nosebleed row on the far side of the room with the rest of the new Steadholders. Also, it was mentioned briefly earlier that Honor's heraldry is a book-and-key beneath an old-school space helmet.
Which raises the question of what they do if there are two holders of that medal at the time, or alternatively none, and the need for a Champion comes up (e.g. Burdette's challenge in the next book).
Also, a word on the lethality of pulsers, they tend to turn people into a fine red mist.
There's an inconsistency on this later in the series (in Crown of Slaves), where Cachat uses a pulser to blow off someone's ear but the injury is described as "gory but not serious" (given the description of pulser lethality in this passage, he should have blown the man's head off).
A dozen of Honor's personal armsmen, making up both her bodyguard and the police force of her Steading, follow her home. Led by Major Andrew LaFollet.
A Steadholder's Guard is actually larger than just the Steadholder's personal armsmen; the distinction is that the latter are the ones who do (most of) the actual bodyguarding rather than law enforcement/general security, and are (unlike the rest of the Guard) exempt from legal responsibility for anything the Steadholder orders them to do.
She arranged to provoke him into making the challenge instead of the other way around, and still picks his preferred method of dueling. Well, at least he's off-balance, but give him a couple of days to collect himself and even that advantage will be gone.
The Ellington Protocol is actually to her advantage here. Honor can assume she'll get off either the first or second shot. Summervale has already demonstrated that he can kill when dueling under the Dreyfuss protocol, so if he get's the first shot off it's a wash as far as his chance of killing her is concerned. On the other hand, the Ellington protocol gives the less experienced Honor more chances to kill him - the duel won't end if her first shot isn't lethal.
Simon_Jester wrote:So don't allow abstentions. Jurors and panels don't have to be allowed to abstain; in a law code where presumption of innocence holds, no one should ever vote 'abstain' instead of 'innocent.'
On the other hand, arguably if you have a presumption of innocence, the bar to conviction should be higher (especially as this is a capital case, lesser offences probably use a lesser number of judges), requiring the prosecution to convince 2/3rds rather than 1/2 the judges.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Simon_Jester »

eyl wrote:
Ahriman238 wrote:By virtue of her medal, she is the Protector's Champion. By virtue of that, she sits at the Protector's right hand and not in the nosebleed row on the far side of the room with the rest of the new Steadholders. Also, it was mentioned briefly earlier that Honor's heraldry is a book-and-key beneath an old-school space helmet.
Which raises the question of what they do if there are two holders of that medal at the time, or alternatively none, and the need for a Champion comes up (e.g. Burdette's challenge in the next book).
Yes. It'd be interesting to ask Weber that question. I'd be surprised if no one already has.

Also interesting to ask what happens if the designated champion is infirm from age (presumably retires) or illness. Flag in Exile implies that Grayson doesn't have a procedure for this, which seems very unlikely.
Also, a word on the lethality of pulsers, they tend to turn people into a fine red mist.
There's an inconsistency on this later in the series (in Crown of Slaves), where Cachat uses a pulser to blow off someone's ear but the injury is described as "gory but not serious" (given the description of pulser lethality in this passage, he should have blown the man's head off).
One, I suspect the passage was written by Flint, who probably just uses the pulser as a handgun standin. Two, if we go Watsonian there's always the variable power settings argument. Pulsers are so stupidly lethal because their bullets travel at meteoric speeds; there are times and places where entirely by design you might not want that. Say, police work.
Simon_Jester wrote:So don't allow abstentions. Jurors and panels don't have to be allowed to abstain; in a law code where presumption of innocence holds, no one should ever vote 'abstain' instead of 'innocent.'
On the other hand, arguably if you have a presumption of innocence, the bar to conviction should be higher (especially as this is a capital case, lesser offences probably use a lesser number of judges), requiring the prosecution to convince 2/3rds rather than 1/2 the judges.
That depends on how professional you expect the judges to be. Check out real life court martials, or for that matter real countries whose civil court system runs on the inquisitorial system, for examples of how this works in different environments.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by eyl »

Simon_Jester wrote:One, I suspect the passage was written by Flint, who probably just uses the pulser as a handgun standin. Two, if we go Watsonian there's always the variable power settings argument. Pulsers are so stupidly lethal because their bullets travel at meteoric speeds; there are times and places where entirely by design you might not want that. Say, police work.
This wouldn't be the only inconsistency between Weber and Flint - at least in Fanatic, Havenite officers - who I think received prolong - are described as "middle-aged" in their forties or so. However, the variable power settings argument, while logical, is contradicted by Field of Dishonor - the passage states that chemical-powered handguns are used for duels specifically because they're not as lethal as pulsers, which shouldn't be a concern if you could build low-power pulsers.

Now that I think on it, this may be a retcon rather than a difference of writers, as ISTR that at some point Honor gets a reinforced dress which is stated to be able to protect her against light or low-power pulser darts.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Simon_Jester »

Honestly, the idea of all 'modern' guns in the Honorverse being insanely destructive pulsers and flechette guns just doesn't pass the sniff test for me; there are too many contexts where a firearm of mass destruction is simply not appropriate. But we mostly see military small arms in the novels, and that is exactly where the heavy firepower would be appropriate, so go figure.

I think the passage in Field of Dishonor makes the most sense if you stick a hidden "military-grade" behind each "pulser" in the passage we're talking about.



Regarding prolong, first-generation prolong does tend to halt the aging process at a late enough point that people can wind up looking middle-aged, especially if they lead stressful lives, which Havenite characters who've just lived through the Legislaturalist era definitely do. Whether Havenites in their forties would have first, second, or third-generation prolong is actually an open question. The generally dysfunctional nature of the prewar Havenite state makes me suspect that while the Legislaturalists were getting prolong as soon as it was available and in good quality, the masses would have only spotty access to the treatments, and probably not the most sophisticated version.

So it's actually at least sort of reasonable for there to be a lot of Havenite officers who are forty to fifty and look middle-aged; it's just that they're going to continue to look middle-aged for the next couple of centuries.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by PKRudeBoy »

Cachat may have also been using the same nonexplosive darts that Usher used to take out the guard. If I'm thinking of the right scene from Crown of Slaves, he's trying to intimidate someone from close range, so if he aimed well, I could see a graze to the ear taking the whole thing off.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Alot of it is going to depend on what you figure Weber means by 'explosive' I suppose and how this all means to work. I mean I gather the idea is something along the lines of:

1.) the extreme penetration we got with the old sub-caliber flechette rifles like the Steyr ACR, coupled with some explosive payload to create large holes in target via fragmentation (velocity of ushc provided either by the round itself with the 'explosive' charge simply breaking up the round, or the explosive itself providing the velocity - projectile velocity would be important for range and penetration mostly.)

2.) Pulser darts designed to tumble and fragment (a less literal definition of explosive) to make large, gory holes in target not unlike some modern military ammo (like certain 5.56mm NATO rounds). Again it could be that the flechettes are designed for better penetration before tumbling/fragmenting inside the target. Depending on projectile design/velocity it might even be more lethal than modern ammo (EG a larger, messier hole)


Nonexplosive pulser darts may be non-tumbling, non-fragmenting rounds (strictly armor penetration, although its possible they could tumble.)

Alot of this, mind, also depends on where they measure the 'diameter' of the darts at and the shape (eg if the fins stick out some distance from the main body the dart itself may be narrower and thus not only potentially less massive, but create narrower wound channels even when tumbling.)

Its worth noting consistency may be an issue as far as 'lethality' goes compared to old firearms. For example the tumbling and fragmenting is dependent on a number of factors (velocity included) and it isn't easily controlled. A pulser dart with an explosive component (like a mini frag grenade) might create more reliable and consistent holes in the target, by contrast (and penetrate deeply enough to reach the vitals, which is ALSO important)

Some examples of wound profiles for military firearms in ballistics gel:

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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

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The first reports were coming back as the Star Kingdom assumed the offensive, and half a dozen Peep bases had already fallen into Manticoran hands. Twice that many sorely needed ships of the wall had surrendered intact, and the public was delighted, but it was unlikely the run of cheap successes would last long. The Peoples' Republic of Haven was simply too huge, and the Committee of Public Safety had secured control of too many of the core systems, major fleet bases, and home defense squadrons. The Peeps had spent something like eighty T-years building up their military; they'd still have plenty of firepower once they got over the shock of the Star Kingdom's renewed operations.
First news from the front, Manticore achieves a string of early victories while the Peeps are still focused on internal problems, seizing at least 6 fleet bases and capturing a dozen wallers. In the long term, Haven still has over a hundred planets to the Alliance's 8 or 9, and a fleet twice as large. Still, good early results.

"Do you realize what you're saying, Dame Honor? You're accusing a peer of the realm of hiring an assassin."

"Yes, Sir, I am."

"Do you have any evidence to support that charge?" he demanded.

"I do, Sir," she replied with no discernible emotion at all, and his eyes widened.

"Then why haven't you presented it to the authorities? Duels may be legal, but paying a professional duelist to kill your enemies certainly isn't!"

"I haven't approached the authorities because my evidence wouldn't be legally admissible in a criminal prosecution, Sir." He frowned, and she went on quietly. "Despite that, it's absolutely conclusive. Summervale admitted his complicity before witnesses."

"What witnesses?" His voice was sharp, but she shook her head.

"I'm sorry, Sir, but I must respectfully decline to answer that question."

The admiral's eyes narrowed, and Honor found it difficult to maintain her calm expression under their weight.

"I see," he went on after a brief, pregnant pause. "This evidence—I'm assuming it's a recording of some sort—was obtained under less than legal circumstances, and you're shielding whoever obtained it, aren't you?"

"Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question."
White Haven's no dummy. Funny they keep mentioning how Honor can't use the evidence obtained by torture, but if she pulls it out should Summervale or Young try and sue for slander, then her sources won't matter.

"Duke Cromarty's Government will survive, but if you challenge Pavel Young to a duel—worse, if you challenge him and kill him—the Opposition will explode. You thought it was bad before and during the court-martial? Well, Captain, it'll be a thousand times worse after this one! The Opposition will demand your head on a platter, and the Duke will have no choice but to give it to them! Can't you see that?!"

-snip-

"The Navy needs you. The Kingdom needs you. You've proven that every time you made the hard call, every time you pulled off one of your goddamned miracles! You have no right to turn your back on all of us to pursue your own, personal vendetta, whatever Pavel Young did to you!" He leaned even closer to his pickup, his eyes hard as stone. "The fact that you can't see that doesn't make it any less true, Captain, and I am ordering you—ordering you, as your superior officer—not to challenge the Earl of North Hollow to a duel!"
Ham orders Honor no to challenge Pavel Young to a duel, technically illegal and not an order she'd ever obey, but trying to talk her out of it was going nowhere.

"I presume that by 'antiques' you're referring to the pistols?" LaFollet had asked, and Ramirez had grunted frustrated agreement, then blinked as LaFollet barked a laugh. "I can't say anything about this Summervale's ability, Colonel, but believe me, he can't be any better with them than Lady Harrington. I know."

"How can you be so positive of that?" Ramirez had demanded.

"Experience, Sir. What you call antiques would have been first-line issue for Palace Security two years ago. We didn't have the tech base to build grav-drivers small enough to make pulsers practical."
LaFollet is very impressed with Honor's skill with the automatic pistols. Apparently Palace Security still issued them until the conclusion of their treaty with Manticore, because Grayson couldn't miniaturize the tech to personal firearms.

"Excuse me, Milady. I was informed about your guardsmen, of course, but the law prohibits the presence of any armed supporters of either party at a meeting. If they wish to remain, they'll have to surrender their weapons."

Both Graysons stiffened in instant rebellion, and LaFollet opened his mouth to protest—only to close it with a snap as Honor raised a hand.

"I understand, Lieutenant," she said, and turned to her armsmen. "Andrew. Jamie." LaFollet met her eyes for just a moment, hovering on the brink of refusal, then sighed and drew the pulser from his holster. He handed it to Castellaño, and Candless followed a moment later.

"And now the other one, Andrew," Honor said in that same quiet voice.

LaFollet's eyes widened, and Ramirez glanced at him in surprise. The Grayson's jaw clenched and his entire body tensed, but then he sighed again. His left hand made a strange little motion, and a small pulser popped out of his sleeve into it. It was short-barreled and compact, designed as a weapon of last resort but no less deadly for that, and he grimaced as he passed it over.
No armed supporters of either side, except the seconds, I guess. Why is everyone surprised the bodyguard has a hidden hold-out?

Denver Summervale stood on his killing ground and watched his latest victim cross the wet grass toward him. He wore the dark clothing of the experienced duelist, without a trace of color to give his opponent a mark, and he hid a smirk as he studied Harrington. The captain was in uniform, its gold braid glittering in the sunlight. The three golden stars embroidered on her left breast made a nice aiming point, and he decided to put at least one bullet through the middle one.
Summervale wears all black for dueling, and considers the uniform impractical because the gold bits give him something to shoot at.

Castellaño opened his hand. The handkerchief leapt into the air, frisking in the playful breeze, and Denver Summervale's brain glowed with merciless fire as his hand came up. The pistol was an extension of his nerves, rising into the classic duelist's stance with the oiled speed of long practice while his eyes remained fixed on Harrington. His target was graven in his mind, waiting only to merge with his weapon's rising sights, when white flame blossomed from her hand and a spike of Hell slammed into his belly.

He grunted in disbelief, eyes bulging in shock, and the fire flashed again. A second sledgehammer slammed him, centimeters above the agony of the first shot, and astonishment flickered through him. She hadn't raised her hand. She hadn't even raised her hand! She was firing from the hip, and—

A third shot cracked out, and another huge smear of crimson blotted his black tunic. His pistol hand was weighted with iron, and he looked down stupidly at the blood pulsing from his chest.

This couldn't happen. It was impossible for him to—

A fourth shot roared, punching into him less than a centimeter from the third, and he screamed as much in fury as in agony. No! The bitch couldn't kill him! Not before he got even one shot into her!

He looked back up, staring at her, wavering on his feet, and his gun was back at his side. He didn't remember lowering it, and now hers was up in full extension. He stared at her, seeing the wisps of smoke blowing from her muzzle in the breeze, and bared his teeth in hatred. Blood bubbled in his nostrils, his knees began to buckle, but somehow he stayed on his feet and slowly, grimly, fought to bring his gun hand up.

Honor Harrington watched him over the sights of her pistol. She saw the hate on his face, the terrible realization of what had happened, the venomous determination as his pistol wavered up centimeter by agonized centimeter. It was coming up, rising toward firing position while he snarled at her, and there was no emotion at all in her brown eyes as her fifth bullet smashed squarely through the bridge of his nose.
Not quite as controversial as the sword duel with Burdette (next book) but Honor easily kills Denver Summervale, professional assassin and duelist. Granted, she's put in a lot of range time in the last two weeks and is herself a season killer, acclaimed by her bodyguards as a natural shot, while Summervale himself admits to a degree of arrogant complacency. Likely things would have been different if she hadn't been able to hit him firing from the hip at 40 meters (quite a trick, that, by the way) as he was definitely a lot faster getting his arm up and ready. Of course, she is genetically engineered with enhanced reflexes, hand-eye coordination and general kinesthesia.

How? How had the bitch guessed he'd hired Summervale? Even the media hostile to North Hollow had handled that part of her initial confrontation with the assassin with unwonted care—possibly from an unwillingness to let the bitch use them against him, but more probably from the monumental damages any court might award for libeling a peer. Yet her charges had leaked anyway, and when it reached North Hollow's ears, he'd reviled himself with every curse he could think of for having met personally with the bungling incompetent.
Media hasn't (as of the duel with Summervale) reported Honor's charge that Young hired him. Also, Young is quite clueless that his security chief has betrayed him, believing he must have been seen when he personally met with his assassin.

"I'm not taking any questions, ladies and gentlemen," she'd said, "but I do have a short statement."

Someone had tried to shout another question, but even his own fellows had hushed him, and then she'd said it.

"Denver Summervale killed someone I loved. What's happened here today won't bring Paul Tankersley back to me. I know that. Nothing can bring him back, but I can seek justice from the man who had him murdered."

The camera focused on her face had twitched, and confusion had hovered almost visibly over the newsies.

"But, Lady Harrington," someone had said at last, "Captain Tankersley was killed in a duel, and you've just—"

"I know how he died," she'd cut the speaker off. "But Summervale was hired—paid—to kill him." Someone had hissed in surprise. Someone else had uttered a muffled oath as he remembered the reports of her initial exchange with Summervale, and North Hollow had heard his own, frightened whimper hanging in the silence of his luxurious suite.

"I accuse," she'd said, "the Earl of North Hollow of hiring Denver Summervale to kill not merely Paul Tankersley but myself, as well." She'd paused, and her thin smile had frozen North Hollow's blood. "As soon as possible, I will so accuse the Earl in person. Good day, ladies and gentlemen."
At least, until after Honor blows Summervale away and announces to the assembled press that Pavel Young is next.

Was it possible the earl would refuse the challenge? Cromarty gnawed his lip for a moment, trying to second-guess the imponderables. North Hollow was a coward, but would even that let him refuse to meet her? Proving his cowardice to the entire Kingdom would be as fatal to any career in politics as being proven a murderer, but he might believe that if he met her—and survived the experience—he could survive the scandal, as well. Certainly the Opposition 'faxes would back his efforts to put it behind him; they'd have to, for they would be tarred by their own association with him if the scandal destroyed him.

But he wouldn't live through it. The very thought was ridiculous after watching her cut Denver down, and the way she'd done it was horrifying. That meeting had been an execution, not a duel. Denver had been totally out of his class without ever realizing it; she'd shot him so many times not because she'd had to, but because she'd wanted to.
Consequences of Young refusing a duel, estimate of his chances if he does accept one, and the final analysis that Denver Summervale was outmatched the entire time.

She and her companions sat on a platform of polished golden oak that floated eight meters above the floor. She couldn't decide whether the architect had used grav plates under the platform or corner tractors from the overhead. It could have been either, for there were no other platforms directly above or beneath, but it didn't really matter. The hovering effect was pleasant, and its position gave them both the privacy of isolation and a commanding lookout post for Andrew LaFollet.

She looked over her shoulder at the major and felt a pang of remorse. He and his men hadn't eaten, and they couldn't quite hide their unhappiness. The very things that made her table's position so pleasant also brought it into clear sight of everyone. LaFollet had done his very best not to wince when he looked at all the possible sightlines, but his unhappy acceptance made her feel a little guilty. She supposed any good security officer required a streak of paranoia, and she made a mental note to keep that in mind for the future. There was no point in distressing someone so obviously devoted to her well-being as long as she could compromise without feeling like a prisoner.
Regiano's, a reasonably classy faux-Italian restaurant in Landing, Manticore's capitol. Apparently uses hovering platforms for some of the tables.

Honor frowned and ran an index finger up and down the stem of her wineglass while she berated herself. There were advantages to the approach she'd taken—at the very least, the entire Kingdom knew what North Hollow had attempted—but she'd also warned him of what she intended, and he'd done the one thing she hadn't counted on.

He was hiding from her, and it was proving surprisingly effective. As long as he refused to sue for slander, she might as well not even have her illegal recording, unless she chose to hand it directly to the media, and that could have disastrous consequences for the people who'd obtained it for her. And as long as he avoided meeting her face-to-face, no one could accuse him of declining her challenge. He was trying to wait her out, counting on the Navy to order her out of the home system sooner or later, and she wondered if he'd heard about the orders the Admiralty had already cut. She had five days, possibly six before Nike left the slip; after that, she'd either have to resign her commission or buckle down to her duties and give up on him for the present.
Young turtles up in his manor, leaving only to attend Parliamentary meetings so he can't be accused of refusing her personal challenge. Despite her airing things in public twice. Oh yes, and Honor's concerned superiors arrange to expedite repairs on Nike and send her whole squadron to the front before she can destroy her career and turn Manticoran politics on it's ear again.

It was as well she had, for her mind was still trying to catch up with what was happening when she heard the snarling whine of a pulser. Explosive darts ripped their way up the stairs the waiters had used—the stairs Nimitz would have used—and shredded the end of the dining platform, and Neufsteiler cried out as a jagged splinter drove into his back. Then Candless was there, jerking her financial agent out of the line of fire, and a pulser had appeared in his other hand. She tried to rise, still struggling to control a snarling, hissing treecat with one hand, and LaFollet smashed her back flat with an elbow and a snarled curse the instant she started to move. Stars spangled her vision, his weight shifted on her back, and a pulser whined in her very ear as the patrons' screams and shouts began at last.

She turned her head, dimly aware that she was gasping for breath from how hard LaFollet had hurled her down, and saw her chief armsman's solid darts rip through a human body in a spray of blood. A sawed-off pulse rifle flew through the air as LaFollet's target went down, but someone was still firing. A body fell heavily beside her, and LaFollet rolled off her and went to one knee, gray eyes merciless as he laid his pulser barrel over his forearm and blew another victim apart. Candless took a third gunman down, then a fourth, and suddenly the firing was over and there was only the bedlam of panicked human beings as they stampeded for the exits.
Today's entry in the "Pavel Young is too stupid to live" category. Young sends a dozen gunmen after Honor in a crowded restaurant. Allow me to repeat that, Young hires over a dozen goons to shoot the person who publicly accused him of hiring assassins to kill people he wasn't willing to face himself a few days ago. Because this is the best way to convince people of your innocence. I can't fairly blame him for the impressive bodycount this would have entailed, as it seems he assembled and hired the goons to go after her the next time she came down to ground and it was their call to go after her in a very public setting. Still.

But this scene isn't about Young, it's about Honor's armsmen proving they are badass, and smart enough not to fire into the crowd, and Honor learning to duck and cover and let her bodyguards handle the mayhem. The attack kills no one but the assassins, though one armsman and Honor's accountant are wounded.

All in all, it looked as if Harrington intended to remove Pavel just as thoroughly as Georgia could have hoped. Unfortunately, Harrington had screwed up by warning him she was onto him. Sakristos had expected better tactics than that out of her, but perhaps that had been unfair. She might have gotten close enough to challenge him if she'd kept her mouth shut, true, but she couldn't have found a better way to punish him if she'd considered it for years. He was ready to piss himself in terror, and the impact on his political plans was still worse. The Opposition might defend him in public, but only because they had no choice; in private (and without having to consider how they would have felt if Denver Summervale's killer were hunting them), they were free to express their own opinion of his "cowardice." He'd become a laughingstock in Parliament's cloakrooms, whatever the public appearance. Even his brothers were disgusted with him, and Stefan, the older of them, was already playing up to Georgia.

She grimaced. Stefan was as bad as Pavel in most ways. She knew he was pursuing her primarily to humiliate Pavel by taking "his" woman away—none of the Youngs had ever seen attractive women as anything but a way to keep score, or people less powerful than they as anything except tools—but he was at least a little smarter than his eldest brother. Once Pavel was gone (and once she had that file out of his vault), Stefan should prove much easier to guide. Someone with an imagination was always easier to manipulate, especially when he had the ambition for power and knew his manipulator intended to share it with him.
The Young family is sort of dysfunctional that way. At least Pavel can't do much politically while his peers are snickering at him.

"Oh, no, Milady. Fact is, we're delighted someone was there to do it that well. In fact, I'd appreciate your passing my compliments to your people. Here in the capital, we're used to dealing with foreign security personnel; every embassy's got them, and, just like your people, most of 'em have diplomatic immunity. The thing is, we don't have any way to tell how good they are until it falls in the toilet. We worry about it—worry a lot—and pulser fire in a crowded restaurant is one of our special nightmares, but that was some of the best reactive fire I've ever seen. They took down their targets without hitting a single bystander . . . and they had the sense to stop shooting when the crowd started to panic and run. I know from experience how hard it is to keep thinking instead of just reacting when one of your own is down, and we could've had a real bloodbath on our hands if they'd lost their heads."
If there's a lot of foreign security around the capital city and Ramirez was willing to vouch for the skill and professionalism of Honor's armsmen, it goes a long towards explaining their dispensation.

"I'm not surprised, My Lady," he said. Honor looked at him, and he flipped a hand in the air. "That the police couldn't ID North Hollow for hiring them. Those were thugs. Off-the-street muscle, not part of his regular staff."

"That's what Inspector Pressman said," Honor agreed, and LaFollet snorted at the slight surprise in her tone.

"It didn't take a hyper-physicist to figure it out, My Lady. Only a complete idiot would use his own people for something like that. And the way they came in showed they were a pickup team. They had a pretty good plan, given the short time frame they must've put it together in, but it wasn't rehearsed. They were watching each other as well as us because the entire operation was off-the-cuff and none of them were dead certain the others would be in the right places at the right time. Besides, they were all worried about getting out again. For a successful assassination, you need people who either know their escape route's almost infallible or don't care whether or not they get out. These clowns were so busy making certain their lines of retreat were open that one of them slipped up and actually let me see his weapon. That's what I meant when I said we were lucky."
How LaFollet spotted the team before they opened fire, and how Young can escape 'official' suspicion in the shoot-out, even though he presents himself rather obviously as a suspect.

"I have just been reminded," he announced, "of a seldom used rule. It is customary—" he turned to glare at the newcomer again "—for new peers to send decent notice to this House, and to be sponsored, before taking their place among us. Under certain circumstances, however, including the exigencies of the Queen's Service, new members may be delayed in taking their seats or, as I have just been reminded, may appear before us at a time convenient to them if their duty to the Crown will make it impossible for them to appear at one convenient to the House as a whole."
Who is that mysterious hooded Knight? Oh, and it seems that while Lords normally announce themselves and get a sponsor some time before actually appearing for the first time, those in the Service about to ship out can turn up unannounced.

"My Lords and Ladies," she said finally, her soprano rising clearly amid the quivering tension, "I apologize to this House for the unseemly fashion in which I have interrupted its proceedings. But, as the Speaker has said, my ship is under orders to depart Manticore as soon as her repairs and working up period are completed. The demands of restoring a Queen's ship to full efficiency will be a heavy burden on my time, and, of course, my departure from the system will make it impossible for me to appear before you after my ship is once more ready for deployment."

She paused, tasting the silence and savoring the terror that hovered almost visibly above Pavel Young, and drew a deep breath.

"I cannot in good conscience leave Manticore, however, without discharging one of the gravest duties any peer owes to Her Majesty, this House, and the Realm as a whole. Specifically, My Lords and Ladies, it is my duty to inform you that one of your members has, by his own actions, not only demonstrated that he is unfit to sit among you but made himself a reproach to and a slur upon the very honor of the Kingdom."

Someone blurted a chopped-off exclamation of disbelief, as if unable to credit her sheer effrontery, but her calm, clear voice was like a wizard's spell. They knew what she was going to say, yet no one could move. They could only sit there, staring at her, and she felt the power of the moment like fire in her veins.

"My Lords and Ladies, there is among you a man who has conspired at murder rather than face his enemies himself. A would-be rapist, a coward, and a man who hired a paid duelist to kill another. A man who sent armed thugs into a public restaurant only two days ago to murder someone else and failed in his purpose by the narrowest margin." The spell was beginning to fray. Peers began to rise, their voices starting to sound in protest, but her soprano cut through the stir like a knife, and her eyes were fixed on Pavel Young.

"My Lords and Ladies, I accuse Pavel Young, Earl North Hollow, of murder and attempted murder. I accuse him of the callous and unforgivable abuse of power, of cowardice in the face of the enemy, of attempted rape, and of being unfit not simply for the high office he holds but for life itself. I call him coward and scum, beneath the contempt of honest and upright subjects of this Kingdom, whose honor is profaned by his mere presence among them, and I challenge him, before you all, to meet me upon the field of honor, there to pay once and for all for his acts!"
Honor's first address to the Lords. Lacks a certain je ne sais cois, but I'm certain it will at least provide discussion to the group for some time, and not be easily forgotten. It also has the virtue of brevity, if, as implied fifteen minute addresses are commonplace.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

Post by Ahriman238 »

crazedwraith wrote:Yeah this really stood out to me as well. I mean yes, tabloids are stuff are bad. But there is such a thing as legit journalism.
It's not just here, it was really noticeable in the last book of Mutineer's Moon, every time in this series Honor runs into the press, I really don't know what they did to annoy him.

nephytys wrote:A prequelverse would probably be more interesting than the mechanical by-the-numbers books that are coming out now. A small RMN in a distant frontier, pirates and local powers that are gone by the 'modern' era. Almost like oh, say... a 1800s analogue for the 1800s analogue space adventures. :P
I'm more interested in Zahn writing it than anything, but it would be cool to see the RMN becoming a local power for the first time.

I suspect the main reason is that Honor knew information that nobody else in the fleet had, because she had the only working FTL comm receiver in the squadron. If Commodore Banton had survived, I suspect that Honor failing to transfer command would have been viewed in a much less favorable light.
And no one ever asks, given they weren't terribly bothered by their communications security, why she couldn't say "Danislav is here and if we just stay the course, these Peeps won't escape him. Btw, you're in charge now. Instructions?"

Yes. Also, I think part of this is the impact of prolong showing itself. Most of the current Liberal and Conservative members in the Lords are probably in the range of 80-100 years old, and their formative years came at a time when Haven hadn't yet begun its expansionist conquests. A lot of them simply don't get how the realities have changed. In the Conservatives' case this takes the form of an arrogant refusal to take Haven seriously; in the Liberals' case this takes the form of wishing "why can't we be friends like we were in 1835 when I went to college?"
And Roger stepped on a lot of toes to build up a navy that might survive Haven's attention. A lot of people are still in the Lords who have grudges and axes to grind from back then.

It may be optional. Also, I think part of the idea is to enhance their sense of spatial relations by teaching them to physically maneuver craft in two and three dimensions, in a physical, tangible environment where you can look out the window and see what you're doing.

In a starship simulator, or even a real ship, you can't do that, because there are no visible reference points except the distant stars and darkness.
If I thought that I'd not have raised the point. According to the book, everyone, regardless of their eventual specialization, qualifies at the marina and airfield. Honor thinks it builds confidence and taught her 'skills no similar ever could' possibly that same awareness you mentioned.

Is the sword thing a British tradition? I couldn't find anything, but it feels kosher.
Ceremonial dress swords are an 'everybody' thing, although Manticore is the sort of place that would still be hanging onto them in the year 4000 AD. US military officers have dress swords too, at least in the Army and Marines. Not so sure about Air Force and Navy.
I meant surrendering the sword to the court, where it sits on the table for the entire proceedings before being pointed at or away from the accused officer.

As noted, I don't think Weber is really capable of writing a plot that doesn't consist of "us versus them." He's capable of having people change sides and become "us" when they used to be "them." He's capable of switching to new "them" when old "them" is defeated.

But he's not capable of writing honest, serious disagreement with consequences, among people who are both on the 'right' side.
I think he did alright here in having Clinkscales and Honor reach an understanding, without either of them giving up their views or positions. It may be damning that no other examples leap straight to mind, and that could be argued as Clinkscales joining the "us" side by cheerfully submitting to Honor's and Benjamin's authority whatever his reservations.



This is actually the second time Honor is going to get priceless information from torture, though her hands remain totally clean in both cases. Kind of getting mixed messages there.
Although in the first case it's really the Graysons doing it on their own initiative and behalf. In this case... well honestly, I think Weber kind of set this one up; Summervale's a rotten bastard and a hired contract killer who uses a stupid institution to make his killings 'legal.' Hard to sympathize.
I may be funny, but I still care a lot more for the 300 faceless cops Summervale blew up in the first book than I do for Tankersley. Still, a point taken. I just feel like the book is saying that torture is bad in that Honor would never lower herself to that, but it's still useful and she never has a problem using the information she gets.

Which raises the question of what they do if there are two holders of that medal at the time, or alternatively none, and the need for a Champion comes up (e.g. Burdette's challenge in the next book).
Or if, say, the Champion was recently in a shuttle-crash and gunfight and hasn't slept in two days? Apparently there's jack-all.

A Steadholder's Guard is actually larger than just the Steadholder's personal armsmen; the distinction is that the latter are the ones who do (most of) the actual bodyguarding rather than law enforcement/general security, and are (unlike the rest of the Guard) exempt from legal responsibility for anything the Steadholder orders them to do.
Yes.
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Re: Bit of Analysis: Honor Harrington

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Which raises the question of what they do if there are two holders of that medal at the time, or alternatively none, and the need for a Champion comes up (e.g. Burdette's challenge in the next book).
Or if, say, the Champion was recently in a shuttle-crash and gunfight and hasn't slept in two days? Apparently there's jack-all.
Two (or more) holders of the Star of Grayson could be settled by seniority either way-either the first (still living) holder remains the Champion, or the last one to get it becomes the new Champion. Alternatively it may be an award that is only given if the last holder is already dead though I don't think that's elaborated on in the main books.
As for no/an out of order champion, there does seem to be an option, namely the one Mayhew tried to use in 'Flag in Exile'-admit defeat and let the challenger get away with it rather than sacrifice your Champion (which presumably extends to you simply not having one) which while a patently silly way of handling this isn't something I see completely out of bounds what with Grayson's sometimes decidedly pop culture medieval ages depiction.
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