Halo 3 Story Discussion Thread [spoilers!]

[CaptHawkeye]

Bingo.

We couldn't place a finger exactly on what Truth ultimately wanted, which is what made him the most frightening and foremost of the villains.

That he was given such a minor role was... disappointing.

I must also agree with this. Truth was such an excellent villian in Halo 2 because of how little we knew of him. And how he contrasted with the series other "villians." My favorite moments of dialouge in Halo 2 were near the end of the game, where Truth, during his escape from High Charity, attempts to wash down the Covenant with his propaganda while Gravemind retorts to everything he says. Yet Truth continues undaunted, sounding calm and collected yet clearly insane and delusional at the same time.

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another one of their wretched hives? .... No enemy has ever stood before our might."

"Their are those who said this day would never come. What are THEY to say now?"

Gravemind took over this role in Halo 3, which is why I felt he was the better villian in H3. Truth, much like Dooku in Episode 3, was forced to take a backseat, even though he was so much cooler in the last game.

And in another parrallel to Palpatine, it should be interesting that Truth had been grooming both the Arbiter and Tartarus for his position of "right hand man" much in the same way Vader was for Palps. I'm not sure if Truth had decided from the outset that he would ditch Arbs for Tartarus. That decision potentially came down the line. It's possible he was "experimenting" both of them. Using them as examples of each's race to find just who was indeed more loyal.

[Alexian Cale]

Gravemind took over this role in Halo 3, which is why I felt he was the better villian in H3. Truth, much like Dooku in Episode 3, was forced to take a backseat, even though he was so much cooler in the last game.

The Gravemind didn't impress me with his bout of megalomaniacal laughter he indulged himself in when Truth was killed. Though, overall, he managed to 'redeem' his status as a villain when he slowly began to infect Truth, and later on during the campaign when his frustration and seeming invincibility was exhibited. Badass.

Though I would not compare Truth to Dooku, completely. Dooku was ultimately a pawn in the game of Darth Sidious's, whereas this could hardly be said about Truth. One could ultimately say that Truth was, in fact, a greater threat than the Gravemind, as the Covenant and the Humans both agreed that he had to be dealt with first. Hell, the Gravemind himself was forced to team up with the other two factions to bring Truth down.

[Tanasinn]

You know, I didn't see Truth as changing that much, besides becoming a lot more bellicose in general. I too wondered at his belief in the Great Journey...until he shoved the Elites aside to replace them with the blind-faith Brutes, a move that very obviously shook the Covenant to its core. They way I see it, the Covenant was really nothing more than a means to an end (godhood/ascendance) for Truth, and that he ultimately didn't care about anyone else making it but him.

[Alexian Cale]

You know, I didn't see Truth as changing that much, besides becoming a lot more bellicose in general. I too wondered at his belief in the Great Journey...until he shoved the Elites aside to replace them with the blind-faith Brutes, a move that very obviously shook the Covenant to its core. They way I see it, the Covenant was really nothing more than a means to an end (godhood/ascendance) for Truth, and that he ultimately didn't care about anyone else making it but him.

You think so?

I agree that Truth saw the Covenant as the means to an end, just as Shimrra saw the Vong as a means to an end (if you're familiar with the NJO), and just as Palpatine saw the Empire as a means to an end. But, despite that similarity, the two couldn't be more different. Palpatine's delusions weren't nearly as monstrous and grotesque as Shimrra's (well, not 'til DE). He seemed perfectly sane whereas Shimrra was a fanatic. In H2, Truth was a Palpatine. A gifted, subtle manipulator who incited actions against his own state because the Brutes were not only more powerful than the Elites, but easier to use. Whereas in H3, he's a Shimrra. Still hellbent on power and, yes, willing to use and kill everything in his path, but he doesn't exhibit any extreme intelligence or calculating nature that he had in H2.

[Balrog]

You know, I didn't see Truth as changing that much, besides becoming a lot more bellicose in general. I too wondered at his belief in the Great Journey...until he shoved the Elites aside to replace them with the blind-faith Brutes, a move that very obviously shook the Covenant to its core. They way I see it, the Covenant was really nothing more than a means to an end (godhood/ascendance) for Truth, and that he ultimately didn't care about anyone else making it but him.

You think so?

I agree that Truth saw the Covenant as the means to an end, just as Shimrra saw the Vong as a means to an end (if you're familiar with the NJO), and just as Palpatine saw the Empire as a means to an end. But, despite that similarity, the two couldn't be more different. Palpatine's delusions weren't nearly as monstrous and grotesque as Shimrra's (well, not 'til DE). He seemed perfectly sane whereas Shimrra was a fanatic. In H2, Truth was a Palpatine. A gifted, subtle manipulator who incited actions against his own state because the Brutes were not only more powerful than the Elites, but easier to use. Whereas in H3, he's a Shimrra. Still hellbent on power and, yes, willing to use and kill everything in his path, but he doesn't exhibit any extreme intelligence or calculating nature that he had in H2.

Well, he really didn't have to in H3: no more Council to get in his way, no more Heirarchs to oppose him, no need to be manipulative anymore. Plus, we don't have too many scenes with him anyways like we did in H2, and most of those he's putting on the public face to inspire the Covenant/scare the humans. We don't have any "private" scenes like we did with his interactions with the Arbiter. And you kinda have to be a fanatic to believe in the Great Journey anyways.

[Alexian Cale]

Well, he really didn't have to in H3: no more Council to get in his way, no more Heirarchs to oppose him, no need to be manipulative anymore.

I suppose that this is feasible, but is it likely? That Truth can operate from behind the scenes as a skilled and subtle manipulator, yet abandon every pretense of rationality and calculation? He didn't emit so much as a trace signature of the intellect he held in H2.

Plus, we don't have too many scenes with him anyways like we did in H2, and most of those he's putting on the public face to inspire the Covenant/scare the humans. We don't have any "private" scenes like we did with his interactions with the Arbiter. And you kinda have to be a fanatic to believe in the Great Journey anyways.

Consider: even his moments in H2 when the Master Chief was chasing his wrinkly ass all over High Charity, Truth was still much more collected than anything in H3, even when his deception was being rebutted by the Gravemind. What I mean to say is that it's as if he suddenly went off the deep end the second he arrived at Earth.

[Tanasinn]

I see your point. Still, Truth becoming more hysterical might have something to do with how close he is to his goal. His various public broadcasts to the Covenant, for example, still seem to largely be calm and assured. On the other hand, he was pretty hysterical by the end, and he certainly had rage to spare at the beginning of Crow's Nest. I figured this was an attempt to show a few cracks in the mask.

[Alexian Cale]

I see your point. Still, Truth becoming more hysterical might have something to do with how close he is to his goal. His various public broadcasts to the Covenant, for example, still seem to largely be calm and assured. On the other hand, he was pretty hysterical by the end, and he certainly had rage to spare at the beginning of Crow's Nest. I figured this was an attempt to show a few cracks in the mask.

I can agree with this. It is feasible that, if Truth truly believed in the "promise of the Sacred Rings", the closer he got towards his so-called ascension, his fanaticism and latent zealotry would manifest. The problem is that the 'cracks in the mask' that you mention just suddenly show up out of literally nowhere. Had he exuded some essence of insanity in H2 or if the process was slow in H3, I could understand. But it's not. He went from one extreme to the other: a subtle politician to a religious fanatic, Palpatine to Shimrra, ect.

[Balrog]

Well, he was always 'Shimrra' to start out with, but his own ambitions forced him to assume 'Palpatine' in order to get ahead of the others. He still held that calm attitude when preaching to the choir, the only times I recall he got "insane" was The Crow's Nest (which could even be argued as him using psychology to try and scare the humans) and as he's activating Halo, and let's be honest, if Pat Robertson found himself in the physical presence of Jesus, he'd probably break down a bit too.

[Alexian Cale]

Well, he was always 'Shimrra' to start out with, but his own ambitions forced him to assume 'Palpatine' in order to get ahead of the others.

And I said that this is feasible. In H2, Truth manipulated the situation concerning the Elites and the Brutes to instigate a civil war. In his attempts to acquire singular power over the Covenant (which I do not personally believe that this is completely the case, since he was already the highest authority in the Covenant), he exhibited signs of intense intelligence and subtlelty.

My point is that he doesn't really do anything remotely clever here. You'd think that we'd have a bit of that in H3.

He still held that calm attitude when preaching to the choir, the only times I recall he got "insane" was The Crow's Nest (which could even be argued as him using psychology to try and scare the humans) and as he's activating Halo,

Well, if I recall, aren't those two moments the only time we see him in the whole game? It's not like Truth was featured on five occasions and, out of those five, he only went nuts once.

and let's be honest, if Pat Robertson found himself in the physical presence of Jesus, he'd probably break down a bit too.

True, but as a Christian, I would even have to admit that Robertson has never really shown himself to be a supremely intelligent man or collected in that he's a master manipulator. Btw, the 700 Club is the most boring show on TV.

[Tanasinn]

We "see" Truth multiple times throughout the game, preaching to the Covenant calmly and assuredly through holo-projectors. Obviously, if a stray bolt hits the projector, the message stops playing.